Support NeoGAF

[Tqaulity]

Now that it's official, I just want to confirm what we should already know: the Xbox Series S is Microsoft's real next gen console. Back in E3 in 2018 when Phil mentioned "Xbox consoles" in reference to next gen, this is what he was talking about. However, Microsoft smartly focused on the Xbox Series X first mainly from a marketing perspective because they realized that the enthusiast crowd were the ones paying most attention in the build up to launch and (we) would not be nearly as excited for a paired down next gen console. In other words, they did not want to repeat the mistakes made with messaging for the Xbox One back in 2013 (TV integration be damned!).

So here we are and now that's it's official let's make a few things clear:

1. The Xbox Series S IS the baseline/default for next gen Xbox! This is true both from technical and marketing perspective:
   • This is the product that will appeal to the widest audience making the entry to Gamepass ecosystem much more enticing at $299
   • This console is a obvious evolution of the Xbox One S (white color and all), which is the most popular Xbox One console that people will "get" in terms of an upgrade path
   • This console stands on it's own in terms of it's value (whereas the Series X does not distinguish itself enough from a gaming PC for that same enthusiast crowd)
   • Technically, this spec WILL BE the baseline for next gen on Xbox. Any developer making a game for Xbox, will be starting from Series S and scale across Series X/PC etc). Series S is only 1/3 the GPU power of Series X and less than 1/2 the GPU power of PS5. This WILL BE a factor when looking at exclusive next gen 'Xbox' games versus 'PlayStation' games going forward!
2. This confirms that the Series S and Series X are analogous to the One S and One X (just releasing at the same time) insofar as the 'X' versions are simply playing games designed for the 'S' at higher resolutions and/or framerates. Since the Series S has all of the core capabilities of the Series X (ray-tracing, Zen2 CPU, Velocity Architecture etc), it is clear that the Series X will be nothing more than a high resolution Series S (much like the One X was to the One S). Again no "exclusively designed" games for the high end Xbox: when Microsoft talks about allowing exclusive next gen games in 2 years or so, (they couldn't say it before) they are referring to the Series S/X together meaning Series S is the baseline.
3. The combination of Series X and Series S can absolutely give Sony a run for it's money in terms of hardware sales compared to PS5. Assuming PS5 is much more expensive than the $299 price point of Series S, the Series S will be much more appealing to more casual gamers especially in the Western markets
4. This whole strategy of one unified ecosystem with multiple console, XCloud, and PC WILL BE confusing to a large number of consumers (and developers for that matter). Xbox One, One S, One X, Xcloud, Series S, Series X all playing the same games?! What?! Many consumers will purchase the Series S thinking they got the only "next gen Xbox", many will be confused as to how both the Series S and Series X compare to the One X, and many will mistakenly buy one console over another

They held off as long as they could but THIS is Microsoft's true next gen plan in action. Appeal to wide audience, get as many users on GamePass as possible, claim the performance "Halo" for the enthusiast gamer (Series X), and lead in hardware and software sales in console space. Will it work? Depends on a lot including marketing, games, and how Sony handles their end (price, games etc). But it will be an interesting first few years to next gen for sure

 

[M1chl]

But...we know that?

 

[nemiroff]

Yeah I didn't quite see it before, but the gist of it sure seems a bit clearer now.

 

[Three]

Yes. MS' clear marketing was use Xbox Series X when announcing next gen, use Series S when announcing price. They know full well that the Series S is their main nextgen console and what most games will aim for especially as they killed the One X and kept the One S in the same fashion

 

[NickFire]

But...we know that?

Some of us have recognized this for a while. But I don't think I imagined people who thought Series X was the baseline, and Series S would just have resolution turned down. I agree with OP to be clear - Series S is the baseline for MS next gen. Unfortunately, I think it will also be the baseline for all 3rd party games next gen.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

You're still missing the point. Xbox is the platform they are trying to sell, the consoles are just hardware pieces part of the line up.

 

[Dr Bass]

I don't think S or X is the "real" anything. They both exist and you pick the one you want.

I also don't think the 299 price point is going to make any difference. We've had Xbox One S at 299, all the way down to 199 at times and it made no difference. They need to be bringing the games people want.

 

[rob305]

People saying the S is going to hold back next gen...at 1080p it still has headroom to run games the exact same way the X does. Also, the smaller amount of RAM doesnt bottleneck anything since the S will not need 4K assets and textures. Those are what usually take a huge chunk in the memory

 

[Bruno_Arrais85]

4TF is now next gen?

 

[THE DUCK]

A lot of pure conjecture being conveyed as fact. In most cases the x version will be the lead, then they will target down, not up, thats just silly. By what you are saying, when a pc game developer makes a game, they design it for ryzen 1200 with 2gb of ram running a integrated graphics card. This is hogwash, they develop it with high end pc's in mind first, then downscale textures, resolution, lighting, etc. Getting so tired of the lame arguement that having to develop for lower platforms cripples development. Sell all your high end pc's then.....garbage.

 

[Megatron]

1. • This console stands on it's own in terms of it's value (whereas the Series X does not distinguish itself enough from a gaming PC for that same enthusiast crowd)

could you please build me out a pc with the same specs as a Series X for $499?

 

[gamerguywashere]

meh, four Nintendo Switches duck taped together


call me next-next-gen

 

[-Arcadia-]

Yep. This entire strategy didn't quite make sense until the last puzzle piece (Series S) plopped in.

I see Microsoft skewing more casual and mainstream, but providing options for those who want the best of the best.

 

[rofif]

But how do I put my 360 games collection in it. Damn digital bullshit

 

[CatLady]

What Phil said some time ago that Xbox would not be out of position on price or power has proven true.

XsS is the going to be the most affordable console and the XsX is definitely the most powerful console and it may even cost the same as the weaker PS5.

 

[FunkMiller]

Months and months of how amazing the Series X is, and how much better it is than Ps5... and now it’s not even the main console release?

 

[magaman]

What a joke. The 'baseline' is basically an Xbox One X.

 

[Jtibh]

And i will say it works. At 299 plus gamepass with stalker 2 day one....cant go wrong.
But i think this will only boost ps5 sales as well since most people can now afford both for less.

Win win

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Good thing games are so S C A L A B L E that you can just increase the values and turn the knobs and the game will look better on XsX.

Unfortunately, S C A L A B I L I T Y is an Xbox exclusive feature, so don't expect PS5 games to look significantly better than XsS....

 

[Journey]

People saying the S is going to hold back next gen...at 1080p it still has headroom to run games the exact same way the X does. Also, the smaller amount of RAM doesnt bottleneck anything since the S will not need 4K assets and textures. Those are what usually take a huge chunk in the memory

This was the case when we didn't know the CPU was just as powerful as the PS5/XSX CPU and has an SSD.

2 major game changers next gen are;

A) CPU power enabling new AI and Physics possibilities and higher framerates, the Achilles heel of XoneX and PS4 Pro was the cheap Jaguar CPU
B) The incredible boost in IOPS that an SSD brings to the game.

Below is a chart comparing server HDDs running 15,000rpm vs an SSD, now imagine what the chart would look like when comparing them to last gen HDD's running 5400rpm

 

[Gp1]

I've always said it.

Forget about tflops, gpu etc etc.

What defines and is the lowest common denominator of a console generation is the CPU.

As long as the CPU is equal (or at least in the same performance tier and the same architecture) they find a way around the GPU. Especially if you can afford to have a console rendering games around 1080p and another around 4k.

 

[-Arcadia-]

4TF is now next gen?

At 4K? No. Utter garbage.

Capped at closer to 1080/1440? That's an utterly massive pixel/rendering reduction, that may actually make up for the hardware deficit.

Hands-on will tell the final story, though.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Months and months of how amazing the Series X is, and how much better it is than Ps5... and now it’s not even the main console release?

Do you remember people telling that PS5 was gonna held back next-gen because it was weak? Now you can have next-gen with 4 teraflops!

 

[Dnice1]

4TF is now next gen?

@1080p/1440p with a modern cpu and ssd it is.

 

[GHG]

4TF is now next gen?

Yes.

But 10 isn't.

 

[RayHell]

Microsoft NEXT-GEN is Gamepass. Serie S is just a cheap gateway.

 

[UnNamed]

4TF is now next gen?

if 4TF at 1080p is not nextgen, also 12 TF is not nextgen on 4K.

 

[THE DUCK]

But how do I put my 360 games collection in it. Damn digital bullshit

You spend $60 and buy you favorite 360 games digitally, realistically the rest you would never play again anyhow. Move on.

 

[Clear]

I've always said it.

Forget about tflops, gpu etc etc.

What defines and is the lowest common denominator of a console generation is the CPU.

As long as the CPU is equal (or at least in the same performance tier and the same architecture) they find a way around the GPU. Especially if you can afford to have a console rendering games around 1080p and another around 4k.

Ram is arguably more of a critical factor as its the hardest thing to scale back on, once a commitment is made to utilize a certain allocation. How much does the S have compared to the X and PS5?

 

[IntentionalPun]

And i will say it works. At 299 plus gamepass with stalker 2 day one.

Stalker 2 day one?

You mean when it comes out in 2 years? lol

 

[INC]

The jokes not funny when you have to explain it

 

[THE DUCK]

What a joke. The 'baseline' is basically an Xbox One X.

And yet I would like to replace an xbox one x in the bedroom with this. Faster load times, better cpu, and better gpu overall. And the xbox one x wasn't weak to begin with.

 

[reinking]

Yes.

But 10 isn't.

I was just going to post something about that.

Funny seeing people that were excited for 12TF and making fun of Sony at 10TF are all of a sudden huge fans of a 4TF console. Don't get me wrong. Great price but it is still a lower end console and will perform like one when compared to the upper tier consoles.

 

[rofif]

You spend $60 and buy you favorite 360 games digitally, realistically the rest you would never play again anyhow. Move on.

Sure if these are all available. And gta iv digital is a version without original music. the 360 version is still my fav

 

[gamerguywashere]

Good thing games are so S C A L A B L E that you can just increase the values and turn the knobs and the game will look better on XsX.

Unfortunately, S C A L A B I L I T Y is an Xbox exclusive feature, so don't expect PS5 games to look significantly better than XsS....

Ill just wait for someone like panic button to scale it down for switch during compile time

 

[oagboghi2]

9 months of xbox fanboys crowing over 12 teraflops this and teraflops that, and on a dime all of a sudden they don't care.

 

[Pagusas]

cheaper price = more people buying in = more opportunity for money for developers = hopefully more opportunities for good games.

4TF at 1080p will be fine thanks to it still having the same CPU and SSD. Those of us who care about graphics will be either on the X or a 3xxx series PC.

 

[Gp1]

Ram is arguably more of a critical factor as its the hardest thing to scale back on, once a commitment is made to utilize a certain allocation. How much does the S have compared to the X and PS5?

Ram they can update on a hadware revision here and there. Changes on the CPU side is way harder.

I think that series X will indeed have more ram because 4k eats ram and vram like a heavyweight (textures etc) but i think it will be at least comparable.

 

[treemk]

This means that the X will have boosted image quality, resolution, post processing. Basically cheap (development wise) options to take advantage of it's capabilities, but it will never have a game built from the ground up to take advantage of it. PS5 will have more to show off it's teraflops, despite having less of them.

 

[Jtibh]

I

Stalker 2 day one?

You mean when it comes out in 2 years? lol

I waited 14 years. Whats another 2.

Lol yourself longdigoldi

 

[Vawn]

I don't think S or X is the "real" anything. They both exist and you pick the one you want.

I also don't think the 299 price point is going to make any difference. We've had Xbox One S at 299, all the way down to 199 at times and it made no difference. They need to be bringing the games people want.

But, it's not that simple. The games have to be ran on both. If most people own the S, that's the platform which will recieve the focus. Then the X will mostly just be playing S games with a bump to whatever they can easily turn on.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

People go into phone outlets and retail stores every day and buy the right iPhone or Galaxy phone and each of those have like twelve options that are close in price. Yet for some reason customers are supposed to be massively confused about Xbox Series S and X. Makes sense.

Surely theyll be discontinuing Xbone S, and the base Xbone and Scorpio are already discontinued.

 

[RoboFu]

What a joke. The 'baseline' is basically an Xbox One X.

I doubt it.... the cpu is a huge factor. I will be interested in seeing marvel avaengers comparisons across all xbox consoles .

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

9 months of xbox fanboys crowing over 12 teraflops this and teraflops that, and on a dime all of a sudden they don't care.

Pretty much.

T-this was the master plan all along!!

Seems like PS5 will have the most impressive games (outside of resolution comparison videos) since games for it can be designed with the hardware strengths instead of straddling two systems that are worlds apart in terms of power..

 

[Romulus]

Not with that SSD, that is complete shit. Even 2x the amount of the Xbox series S would be garbage for next-gen.

 

[bad guy]

4TF is now next gen?

No. The superior CPU is.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

4TF is now next gen?

well we`ve seen what Xbox officials already tried to sell as "next gen" with Craig.....

if 4TF at 1080p is not nextgen, also 12 TF is not nextgen on 4K.

Native 4k is not sustainable with all the next gen goodies, neither with 12 nor 10TF..........but @ 1440p + upscaling it is............but what to do with that crappy XSS then? 720p and lower?

 

[Gavon West]

You're still missing the point. Xbox is the platform they are trying to sell, the consoles are just hardware pieces part of the line up.

Exactly. Series X|S and Xcloud are just gateways into the ecosystem. Again, its not about just consoles with Microsoft. Their just stepping stones into an entire platform. Gamepass is the main event.

 

[THE DUCK]

Sure if these are all available. And gta iv digital is a version without original music. the 360 version is still my fav

Couldn't you just stream spotify with the GTA IV soundtrack? Or for that matter any music you want?

 

[rofif]

Couldn't you just stream spotify with the GTA IV soundtrack? Or for that matter any music you want?

no? How is streaming music in the background the same as having ingame radio with original music that was in the game when I played in 2008?
They totally butchered the game