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[Loxley]

This read through reminded me that it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to read this book without hearing echoes of Howard Shore in my head. Completely.

Not that I'm complaining of course, it's kind of nice to have a soundtrack in your head when pairing it with your own mental imagery.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Early contender for funniest line of the book, by Pippen. "Good heavens! At breakfast?" in response to Frodo saying he wants to think.

 

[ComputerBlue]

This read through reminded me that it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to read this book without hearing echoes of Howard Shore in my head. Completely.

Not that I'm complaining of course, it's kind of nice to have a soundtrack in your head when pairing it with your own mental imagery.

For the past several years I've actually put on the score while re-reading LOTR. I do it with HP as well as a few other books which don't have movie adaptations. Instead I try to find music and make a playlist that feels like it would suit the book that I'm reading.

 

[Garryk]

I forgot how much these first few chapters added to the character depth of the hobbits. They know they're getting into something much bigger than themselves, but they're unwilling to let their friend take on any dangers alone. It really strengthens the loyalty that these characters have for each other, and gives insight into some of their later actions. Merry and Pippen seem almost wiser and more worldly than Frodo at this point.

Reading the book it would seem that Frodo is the naive hobbit without a clue. Merry, Pippen, and Sam pretty much knew the whole situation without him having to speak a word.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Reading the book it would seem that Frodo is the naive hobbit without a clue. Merry, Pippen, and Sam pretty much knew the whole situation without him having to speak a word.

Makes me kind of confused why the film plays Pippen as the dimwit until RotK.

 

[AbsentMindedProf]

Makes me kind of confused why the film plays Pippen as the dimwit until RotK.

I think both Merry and Pippen play the role of comic relief in the movies. They provide some of that in the books as well, but they are much deeper characters overall. This is probably just due to the difference in story structure of the two mediums. There is also much less time to expand upon characters in 2 hour films than in 400 page books.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Frodo's naivete is what leads him to his ultimate fate as a rather broken hobbit, beyond repair whilst still inhabiting Middle-earth. With no real guarantee that the West will give him any sense of recovery, as per Tolkien's rather sombre suggestion in a poem that he marked out.

 

[kess]

Early contender for funniest line of the book, by Pippen. "Good heavens! At breakfast?" in response to Frodo saying he wants to think.

I liked Bilbo's response to Frodo selling Bag End... on his birthday.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I've always enjoyed Tom's introduction to the narrative. He's heard singing during their peril, and comes to their aid.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

I've always enjoyed Tom's introduction to the narrative. He's heard singing during their peril, and comes to their aid.

I feel like we could get on an endless loop about Tom, regardless of the scene in question. What would Tom Bombadil do?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I feel like we could get on an endless loop about Tom, regardless of the scene in question. What would Tom Bombadil do?

Bide his time as he has always done. When the time is right he will strike and all will know the name of Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

 

[EGM1966]

Just spotted this thread. Not sure I''ll have time but I'll try and dip in and out. While since I read the books but I've a copy (or two now I think of it) lying around.

I haven't read them since before the films released so it'll be interesting to go back and compare.

I do remember missing the barrow down's in the film and that whole sequence with Tom (even though I did think at the time he didn't totally fit in TLOR narrative as well as I'd like.

 

[VistraNorrez]

This might be a strange comparison, but reading this book while Mad Men is ending, I feel they are kind of similar. It might just be that Mad Men is novelistic in approach, but there are these slow paced character focused episodes in FotR. I would love to see a TV adaptation that took it's time to tell the full story. But boy would the average TV viewer be so confused and not tune in.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

This might be a strange comparison, but reading this book while Mad Men is ending, I feel they are kind of similar. It might just be that Mad Men is novelistic in approach, but there are these slow paced character focused episodes in FotR. I would love to see a TV adaptation that took it's time to tell the full story. But boy would the average TV viewer be so confused and not tune in.

A TV series would work quite well if the budget was decent and good scriptwriters were employed. But WB have no interest in a TV series and their licence with Middle-earth enterprises is to continue for a decade at least.

 

[tryagainlater]

So what exactly is going on in the Old Forest? I feel this may be explained later in the book if I can recall correctly. They're Ents that go super lazy and started turning back into trees, yea? Did Tolkien ever write much about their settling process and why there's so many next to the Shire? I've always been interested in the Ents but I really don't know much about them other Yavanna was involved in their creation.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

So what exactly is going on in the Old Forest? I feel this may be explained later in the book if I can recall correctly. They're Ents that go super lazy and started turning back into trees, yea? Did Tolkien ever write much about their settling process and why there's so many next to the Shire? I've always been interested in the Ents but I really don't know much about them other Yavanna was involved in their creation.

It seems that a lot of Tolkien's more powerful, seemingly god-like characters "retired" in some respects before being called to arms during the War of the Ring. Outside of the Ents, you have Radagast and Gandalf who come back to relevance during this time. Glorfindel, whom I had asked about over in the Tolkien |OT| was also a very powerful elf who was basically sent out on patrol when the company set out (the hobbits) at the beginning of FotR.

The Ents, at the encouragement of Merry, Pippin, and witnessing Saruman's slaughtering of the forest surrounding Isengard, begin to move against Sauron. Before that, they become comatose do to inaction and the quieting of evil in Middle Earth, hence maybe the reason they were slowly turning back into rooted trees.

As for their original migration towards the Shire, I really have no idea.

 

[JB1981]

I have joined this read-through. Currently on chapter 6 The Old Forest. I am enjoying the read but does anyone else get lost in Tolkien's geographical description? I am using google images every few minutes to get a mental image of the geography. I remember the thick description of the environment giving me a lot of trouble in my last reading.

A glade, a dale, a bog, a willow tree, an ash tree. A this and a that. I don't know what a lot of these things look like lol. I suppose I know nothing of flora and fauna but I'm certainly getting an education from this book!

 

[Edmond Dantès]

So what exactly is going on in the Old Forest? I feel this may be explained later in the book if I can recall correctly. They're Ents that go super lazy and started turning back into trees, yea? Did Tolkien ever write much about their settling process and why there's so many next to the Shire? I've always been interested in the Ents but I really don't know much about them other Yavanna was involved in their creation.

As can be seen from the passage below (from The Silmarillion) the Ents travelled westwards during the First Age, so some presumably remained and settled in that general area and others moved eastwards:

...they climbed the long slopes beneath Mount Dolmed; there came forth the Shepherds of the Trees, and they drove the Dwarves into the shadowy woods of Ered Lindon whence, it is said, came never one to climb the high passes that led to their homes.

Also as far as origins; from The Silmarillion again:

Then Manwë awoke, and he went down to Yavanna upon Ezellohar, and he sat beside her beneath the Two Trees. And Manwë said: 'O Kementári, Eru hath spoken, saying: "Do then any of the Valar suppose that I did not hear all the Song, even the least sound of the least voice? Behold! When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power, and while the Secondborn are young." But dost thou not now remember, Kementári, that thy thought sang not always alone? Did not thy thought and mine meet also, so that we took wing together like great birds that soar above the clouds? That also shall come to be by the heed of Ilúvatar, and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eagles of the Lords of the West.'

Then Yavanna was glad, and she stood up, reaching her arms towards the heavens, and she said: 'High shall climb the trees of Kementári, that the Eagles of the King may house therein!'

But Manwë rose also, and it seemed that he stood to such a height that his voice came down to Yavanna as from the paths of the winds.

'Nay,' he said, 'only the trees of Aulë will be tall enough. In the mountains the Eagles shall house, and hear the voices of those who call upon us. But in the forests shall walk the Shepherds of the Trees.'

And Tolkien's motives from a letter to W.H Auden:

...I did not consciously invent them at all. The chapter called 'Treebeard', from Treebeard's first remark on p. 66, was written off more or less as it stands, with an effect on my self (except for labour pains) almost like reading some one else's work. And I like Ents now, because they do not seem to have anything to do with me. I daresay something had been going on in the 'unconscious' for some time, and that accounts for my feeling throughout, especially when stuck, that I was not inventing but reporting (imperfectly) and had at times to wait till 'what really happened' came through. But looking back analytically I should say that Ents are composed of philology, literature and life. They owe their name to the eald enta geweorc of Anglo-Saxon, and their connexion with stone. Their part in the story is due, I think, to my bitter disappointment and disgust from schooldays with the shabby use made in Shakespeare of the coming of 'Great Birnam wood to high Dunsinane hill': I longed to devise a setting in which the trees might really march to war. And into this has crept a mere piece of experience, the difference of the 'male' and 'female' attitude to wild things, the difference between unpossessive love and gardening.

I have joined this read-through. Currently on chapter 6 The Old Forest. I am enjoying the read but does anyone else get lost in Tolkien's geographical description? I am using google images every few minutes to get a mental image of the geography. I remember the thick description of the environment giving me a lot of trouble in my last reading.

A glade, a dale, a bog, a willow tree, an ash tree. A this and a that. I don't know what a lot of these things look like lol. I suppose I know nothing of flora and fauna but I'm certainly getting an education from this book!

It's best to picture rural England when dealing with the first few chapters of The Lord of the Rings. Looking up the flora and fauna of the English countryside helps too.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I'm looking forward to the impressions of readers unfamiliar with the Barrow-downs.

 

[tryagainlater]

Cheers for the Ent breakdown, Dantes. And yea, I'm looking forward to that too. Also looking forward to some good discussion about Tom Bombadil. The eternal LOTR mystery.

 

[entremet]

How's the audiobook? Anyone got it?

I only audit fiction these days.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

How's the audiobook? Anyone got it?

I only audit fiction these days.

The audiobook narrated by Rob Inglis is quite accomplished. Some of his depictions are a bit off, but that doesn't detract from the overall package. It is recommended along with the BBC dramatisation.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

In preparation for the next segment; some Barrow-down inspired artwork and the real life Barrow-down.

And Nine Barrow Down in Dorset:

 

[Loxley]

Great stuff, that artwork is properly creepy.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Great stuff, that artwork is properly creepy.

Yes indeed. The following chapters are some of my favorites. The encounter with the Wights in particular.

 

[kess]

I don't know what Bombadil is, but I'm sure glad he's there.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Week three: May 25th - 31st

• In the House of Tom Bombadil
• Fog on the Barrow-downs
• At the Sign of the Prancing Pony

On Tom Bombadil

"Who is Tom Bombadil?” asks Frodo fearing it a foolish question. Goldberry’s response of "He is” has led to much discussion for Tolkien fans. Some have equated “He is” to the biblical “I am” mistakenly equating Tom with Eru Iluvatar. Frodo also mistakes Golberry’s use of the word “Master” confusing it with power and domination.

Further on:

Frodo asks, "Then all this strange land belongs to him?”

Goldberry responds, "No indeed!” “The trees and the grasses and all things growing or living in the land belong each to themselves. Tom Bombadil is the Master".

Note that she actually doesn't explain what she means, but simple repeats the key word, "Master". Now we must turn to the Letters of Tolkien for some clarification.

"He is master in a peculiar way: he has no fear and no desire of possession or domination at all"

Clearly it seems that the philologist Tolkien is using the word in the sense of 'teacher' or 'authority', its original Latin usage. But that says what but not who and doesn't answer Frodo's question at all.

Further on, Frodo, trying to get a straight answer, asks Tom "Who are you Master?" . Tom frustratingly answers the question with a question:

"Don't you know my name yet? That's the only answer."

In the Letters (#153), Tolkien explained that:

"Goldberry and Tom are referring to the mystery of names."

At the Council of Elrond, the mystery deepens even more as Tom acquires more names that also say what, but not who he. The Men of the North call him 'Orald' (Old English for 'very ancient'). The Dwarves call him 'Forn', an Icelandic word meaning 'old', as in the ancient past. Elrond name for him is 'Iarwain Ben-adar', oldest and fatherless, which is a literal translation of Sindarin iarwain, 'old-young' and ben , 'without,' plus adar, 'father'.

All of these names essentially express the same idea, it seems that the additional names of Tom add only a common acknowledgment of age to our knowledge of who he is.

The 'is' from Goldberry's initial statement is the operative word. Tom as the oldest being comes before history and therefore cannot be related to or associated with anything but himself, his own existence. Tom Bombadil is pre-language and therefore not formed by language, saying of himself:

"Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made the first paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving.... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless before the Dark Lord (Tom referring to Melkor here) came from Outside".

As with Väinämöinen, the eternal singer of the Kalevala (one of the key germs of inspiration for Tolkien), Tom is Arda's oldest sentient being. He is self begotten, fatherless, pre-existent. He simply 'is'.

The idea seems to be that there is an important connection between thing and word, and that each in a sense creates the other.

There are of course many theories as to who is, such as:

The theory that claims that the Music of the Ainur is still prevalent in Arda and that Tom is an embodiment of it thus explaining his constant singing. It also details why Tom would be regarded as the last if Sauron were victorious, as the Music was the foundation of Arda and thus would be the only thing left if all came to ruin.

Or:

That Tom was a byproduct of the initial weaving of Arda when Melkor's discord directly opposed Eru's will. Melkor's theme took precedence the second time out of the three occasions hence Ungoliant was created (the very antithesis to light; the darkness that consumes light). Then Eru rebounded and his wrath was known to all the Ainu and his chords triumphed over Melkor's discord hence Tom was created (the antithesis of the dark; the light, incorruptible).

Tolkien himself said the following:

“As a story, I think it is good that there should be a lot of things unexplained (especially if an explanation actually exists) ... And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).”

“The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power, and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. But if you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless.”

“Tom represented Botany and Zoology (as sciences) and Poetry as opposed to Cattle-breeding and Agriculture and practicality.”

"...But Tom Bombadil is just as he is. Just an odd ‘fact’ of that world. He won’t be explained, because as long as you are (as in this tale you are meant to be) concentrated on the Ring, he is inexplicable. But he’s there – a reminder of the truth (as I see it) that the world is so large and manifold that if you take one facet and fix your mind and heart on it, there is always something that does not come in to that story/argument/approach, and seems to belong to a larger story. But of course in another way, not that of pure story-making, Bombadil is a deliberate contrast to the Elves who are artists. But B. does not want to make, alter, devise, or control anything: just to observe and take joy in the contemplating the things that are not himself. The spirit of the [deleted: world > this earth] made aware of itself. He is more like science (utterly free from technological blemish) and history than art. He represents the complete fearlessness of that spirit when we can catch a little of it. But I do suggest that it is possible to fear (as I do) that the making artistic sub-creative spirit (of Men and Elves) is actually more potent, and can ‘fall’, and that it could in the eventual triumph of its own evil destroy the whole earth, and Bombadil and all."

 

[Loxley]

Welp, the convention I was out of town for is now done and I'm stuck in an airport for 14 hours thanks to a slight mishap, so looks like I've finally got some time to catch up on my reading

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Welp, the convention I was out of town for is now done and I'm stuck in an airport for 14 hours thanks to a slight mishap, so looks like I've finally got some time to catch up on my reading

It will be good to hear your thoughts on the opening chapters of the book.

 

[VistraNorrez]

I really do love Tom Bombadil. He's mystery is very compelling. I wish Jackson was able to sneak in those scenes just as a bonus piece for the home video release. Sort of like David Lynch presents his deleted scenes as a feature of their own.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I really do love Tom Bombadil. He's mystery is very compelling. I wish Jackson was able to sneak in those scenes just as a bonus piece for the home video release. Sort of like David Lynch presents his deleted scenes as a feature of their own.

He really is an enigma and his omission from the film trilogy is understandable. Even Brian Sibley omitted him in the BBC Radio dramatisation, but he had the luxury of adapting further Tolkien works in the radio format and corrected what he considered a mistake by producing the Tom Bombadil sequence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDcQyRF7XG4

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Regardless of my scholarly opinion and Tolkien's musings on his character above; what do readers/Tolkien fans here think about Tom and what he is?

• An Ainu of no rank?
• Aule?
• A nature spirit in physical form?
• Eru himself?
• An embodiment of the Music of the Ainur
• Other?

 

[tryagainlater]

Don't forget the theory that it's Tolkien himself

What is the argument for Aule? I've seen the others but haven't seen an argument for Tom being him. What's the connection there?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Don't forget the theory that it's Tolkien himself

What is the argument for Aule? I've seen the others but haven't seen an argument for Tom being him. What's the connection there?

Similar characteristics; Goldberry being analogous to Yavanna; Tom's resistance to the One (Aule was the smith who Sauron served under, as did Saruman who also attempted to forge a Ring of Power; the One was thus a mere trinket to Aule who had mastery over such things); Tom is regarded as 'Master'.

 

[4444244]

Regardless of my scholarly opinion and Tolkien's musings on his character above; what do readers/Tolkien fans here think about Tom and what he is?

• An Ainu of no rank?
• Aule?
• A nature spirit in physical form?
• Eru himself?
• An embodiment of the Music of the Ainur
• Other?

Hmm, well I think maybe a lesser Ainu or Nature Spirit in physical form.

However, he could very well be some other early being, like those that live in the depths of middle-earth. I remember in the books description of Gandalf's fight with the Balrog that he led him down in to the depths of the earth where unimaginable things dwelt, so we don't know exactly everything that existed at the time.

There could be a lot of stuff that was made by Eru that we don't know about, although it seems that he didn't do a lot after the first age ... speaking of which he apparently was the one who tripped up Gollum at Mount Doom, but I don't buy that.

Tom was 'master' of his domain, but it was obvious that his power was limited - if not deliberately restricted.

Finally. love those pics of Dorset. Whilst I like the LOTR movies and the scenery and all that, I do get a bit aggrieved that NZ is now considered the 'home' of LOTR. Given all the CG crap that Jackson relied on, he could have shot it in the UK. Grumble over.

 

[kess]

It's worth reading into chambered barrows if you dig the descriptions of the Barrow Downs, which with a little bit of imagination can take on the sinister aspect that they have in the book.

West Kennet

 

[Rhomega Beta]

Almost at the last minute, but I finally made it through the Dark Forest, ready to start up again tomorrow.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Hmm, well I think maybe a lesser Ainu or Nature Spirit in physical form.

However, he could very well be some other early being, like those that live in the depths of middle-earth. I remember in the books description of Gandalf's fight with the Balrog that he led him down in to the depths of the earth where unimaginable things dwelt, so we don't know exactly everything that existed at the time.

There could be a lot of stuff that was made by Eru that we don't know about, although it seems that he didn't do a lot after the first age ... speaking of which he apparently was the one who tripped up Gollum at Mount Doom, but I don't buy that.

Tom was 'master' of his domain, but it was obvious that his power was limited - if not deliberately restricted.

Finally. love those pics of Dorset. Whilst I like the LOTR movies and the scenery and all that, I do get a bit aggrieved that NZ is now considered the 'home' of LOTR. Given all the CG crap that Jackson relied on, he could have shot it in the UK. Grumble over.

Yes, the 'other' category caters for a lot of Tom theories disconnected from the primary theories and I actually find such theories more interesting these days.

The Eru/Gollum theory is more of a 'guiding hand' or 'fate' type of intervention rather than direct intervention by Eru himself. Gollum fell because of his elation and momentary lapse of concentration.

Tom's power was indeed limited to his domain, but was it self restriction or external restriction by a more powerful entity? One wonders.

The Highlands would have been perfect for many of the landscape shots in the trilogy and many of the rural areas in England would have sufficed for the Shire type scenes with a little more digital removal of course.

It's worth reading into chambered barrows if you dig the descriptions of the Barrow Downs, which with a little bit of imagination can take on the sinister aspect that they have in the book.

West Kennet

That certainly evokes the atmosphere of the Barrow-downs.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

We haven't discussed rings very much thus far and the aforesaid objects are key to the Second and Third Ages, less so in the First Age where the Silmarils were of great significance.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

On rings:

The most important point of connection between The Hobbit and its sequel The Lord of the Rings, is the ring itself. Just as the Hobbit's wizards and the whole setting in Middle-earth were transformed for the more ambitious requirements of the later book, so too did the ring. For Bilbo’s ring is not the same as Frodo’s in its nature nor its powers, although the alteration was so smoothly done, with such subtlety and skill, that few readers grasp the extent of the change; many who read or re-read The Hobbit after The Lord of the Rings unconsciously import more sinister associations for the ring into the earlier book than the story itself supports. It is important to remember that Tolkien did not just expand the ring’s effects for the sequel; he actually altered them.

Tolkien’s source for the ring has been much debated. His exact source will probably never be known for the simple reason that he probably didn’t have one in the sense of a single direct model. Magical rings are, after all, common in both literature and folklore, among the most famous being Aladdin’s genie ring, Odin’s Draupnir and the cursed Ring of the Nibelungs, none of which have the power to make their wearers invisible. Similarly, magical items that make one invisible are so common that Stith Thompson’s Motif-Index of Folk Literature has three full pages listing various forms such an item make take; a feather or herb, a belt or cap, a sword or jewel or helmet, pills or a salve, a wand or staff or ring, a mirror or boots or stone or ashes, or any number of stranger means. The combination of these two motifs, however are surprisingly rare; of the vast number of items that confer invisibility, and the huge number of magical rings, there are surprisingly few rings of invisibility before Tolkien popularized the idea.

Of the small number of distinct rings of invisibility in five distinct works - one classical (Plato’s Ring of Gyges), one medieval (the ring in ‘The Lady of the Fountain’ from the Malbinogion ), one renaissance (the Ring of Angelica from Ariosto’s ‘Orlando Furioso’), one from a literary fairy tale of the Enlightenment (Fenelon’s ‘The Enchanted Ring’ found in Andrew Lang’s collection ‘The Green Fairy Book’) and one from a reconstructed folk tale of the Romantic era ( the ring in Kreutzwald’s ‘The Dragon of the North’ found now in ‘The Yellow Fairy Book’ ) – the one likeliest to have influenced Tolkien in The Hobbit is Owein’s ring in ‘The Lady of the Fountain’ ( “Take this ring and put it on thy finger, and put this stone in thy hand and close thy fist over the stone; as long as thou conceal it, it will conceal thee too… And Owein did everything the maiden bade him… But when they came to look for him they saw nothing… And that vexed them. And Owein slipped away from their midst”). It seems very likely, however, that both Plato’s account and perhaps Fenelon’s as well contributed something to the One Ring as Tolkien developed it in The Lord of the Rings, never forgetting, however that he primary influence on Frodo’s ring is in fact The Hobbit itself; here as so often, Tolkien is his own main source. Doubtless, other rings of invisibility exist, but no ring exactly like Bilbo’s has been discovered and it seems likely that this is because it was Tolkien’s own invention, giving his hero an edge to offset his small size and lack of martial experience and given limitations because that improved the challenges the hobbit would face, thus creating a better story.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I first read the books after watching the films as a super-eager 11 year old, and I was back then frustrated by how long it took the hobbits to get to Rivendell. It's half the book! I think even Bilbo/Frodo makes some sort of meta comment on this i.e. something to the effect of "That's not a very good story, you've rambled on for half of it and got nowhere...".

But I have appreciated it so much more as I've got older. There's a simplistic, fable like quality to the first half of Fellowship. That really is The Hobbit II when you look at it. Until Frodo gets stabbed of course.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I first read the books after watching the films as a super-eager 11 year old, and I was back then frustrated by how long it took the hobbits to get to Rivendell. It's half the book! I think even Bilbo/Frodo makes some sort of meta comment on this i.e. something to the effect of "That's not a very good story, you've rambled on for half of it and got nowhere...".

But I have appreciated it so much more as I've got older. There's a simplistic, fable like quality to the first half of Fellowship. That really is The Hobbit II when you look at it. Until Frodo gets stabbed of course.

Yes, the change in tone is quite obvious from that point on, almost bordering at times on the annalistic, didactic style of the Silmarillion material.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Yes, the change in tone is quite obvious from that point on, almost bordering at times on the annalistic, didactic style of the Silmarillion material.

It's something the adaptations gloss over really, we're hinted that there's a greater power than a greedy dragon or army at work here, but it only really becomes real on Weathertop. I daresay had LotR been made in 2015 we'd have Fellowship of the Ring Pt 1, maybe for the better!

 

[Any Questions]

He really is an enigma and his omission from the film trilogy is understandable. Even Brian Sibley omitted him in the BBC Radio dramatisation, but he had the luxury of adapting further Tolkien works in the radio format and corrected what he considered a mistake by producing the Tom Bombadil sequence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDcQyRF7XG4

Awesome piece of knowledge. Have listened to that bbc drama hundreds and hundreds of times.

Thanks!

 

[Edmond Dantès]

It's something the adaptations gloss over really, we're hinted that there's a greater power than a greedy dragon or army at work here, but it only really becomes real on Weathertop. I daresay had LotR been made in 2015 we'd have Fellowship of the Ring Pt 1, maybe for the better!

It would be difficult to translate Tolkien's subtlety to film and frankly, I do not trust any current filmmaker with such a task.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Regardless of my scholarly opinion and Tolkien's musings on his character above; what do readers/Tolkien fans here think about Tom and what he is?

• An Ainu of no rank?
• Aule?
• A nature spirit in physical form?
• Eru himself?
• An embodiment of the Music of the Ainur
• Other?

He's such an enigma that any answer is a correct one. Because of his relationship with Goldberry, I'd liken him to a nature spirit in the same vein that Goldberry is a water sprite.

His silly songs don't make him as fit for being the Music of the Ainur. Most of his songs are casual little tunes that serve as Tom's introduction to himself. In all honesty, I would consider him to be Father Time and Goldberry to be Mother Nature.

 

[hunnies28]

Holy shit! I completely missed this ! For some strange reason though, I was casually reading the first few chapters of the book. I need to catch up!

Here's to hoping people actually finish reading the book this time.

 

[Garryk]

He's such an enigma that any answer is a correct one. Because of his relationship with Goldberry, I'd liken him to a nature spirit in the same vein that Goldberry is a water sprite.

His silly songs don't make him as fit for being the Music of the Ainur. Most of his songs are casual little tunes that serve as Tom's introduction to himself. In all honesty, I would consider him to be Father Time and Goldberry to be Mother Nature.

Father Time is a very apt description as Tom seems to transcend time itself. The way he reminisces as if he is experiencing past events through his eyes, e.g. when he picks up the brooch recovered from the barrow. Does he know the person that once wore it or is he looking into the piece's history/experiences?

Not only does he transcend time, but maybe space as well. If he is master of time that means he knew that Frodo would need his help and gave him the song to sing as a test. So did he know to be at that exact barrow when Frodo would choose to sing the song or not, or can he be summoned to anywhere in the forest since he is "Master?" There was also a reference about him waving the rain away and he came in dry except for his boots or hat. Can't remember which.

Instead of mastering time, perhaps he is a wizard since they always arrive exactly when they plan, and his songs are his spells. Tom is certainly much more interesting a figure than I initially expected. He adds much more "magic" to a world that is already quite full of it.

 

[DuffDry]

Sorry to say that I probably won't be able to keep reading. I've stretched myself thin with four books at once and since I've read Fellowship several times over the years, I gotta drop it.

I'll continue to lurk, though. You guys have fun.

 

[AbsentMindedProf]

Regardless of my scholarly opinion and Tolkien's musings on his character above; what do readers/Tolkien fans here think about Tom and what he is?

• An Ainu of no rank?
• Aule?
• A nature spirit in physical form?
• Eru himself?
• An embodiment of the Music of the Ainur
• Other?

I like the idea that he's an anomaly caused in response to the discord of Melkor. He's always represented harmony and care-free happiness to me, and that seems like a perfect counter point to the chaos that Melkor seems to represent.