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London riots spreading through UK

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Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
BBC Ticker
0024: The Metropolitan Police say 685 arrests have been made in connection with disorder across London in recent days. Of those, 111 people have been charged.
Here's the breakdown of charges:
Burglary - 69
Public Order Act offences - 13
Assault on police - 2
Robbery - 3
Possession of offensive weapons - 5
Handling stolen goods - 6
Criminal damage - 1
Going equipped - 1
Drug offences - 3
Miscellaneous other offences - 8
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Can anybody shed light on what it means to be charged with 'going equipped?'

Can you be arrested for carrying hardware? Or only when there's a riot on?
 
Gentleman Jack said:
Can anybody shed light on what it means to be charged with 'going equipped?'

Can you be arrested for carrying hardware? Or only when there's a riot on?
Click to expand...
Google is your friend.

The offence can be committed by day or night. The offence cannot take place at the defendant's place of abode. It must be proved that he had the articles with him for the purpose of using them in connection with burglary, theft or obtaining property by deception though it is not necessary for the prosecution to prove that the defendant intended to use them himself. An intention to use the item if the opportunity arose would be sufficient to convict the accused, but it would not be sufficient where he had not actually decided whether to use the item if the opportunity presented itself.
Click to expand...

Also: http://www.police-information.co.uk/legislation/legislationindexeng.html#G
 
I wonder how many will use these riots as an excuse to turn the hate card on Black people. Millions of Black people in the country, a small idiotic minority partaking in the rioting/looting, but I can see it now, even on Facebook. Vilifying the Black minorities, it's starting. Oh well Muslims, you had a good run...
 
Toodles said:
Nottingham Police communications department, who've been keeping their twitter updated with confirmed reports, were promising a round-up of 'the large number of incidents' they say they've received. The police.uk site couldn't handle the traffic seemingly, so it was upped to pastebin:



That list at the end is described only as "reports the control room have received", so could include hoax calls. Quite a list though if accurate. Rampant little pockets of fuck shit upism.


EDIT: http://twitter.com/#!/nottspolice
Click to expand...

Have been glued to that feed all night, must say the reports of Canning Circus Police seem to be exaggerated somewhat after seeing pics - more a charring than a burnt out husk as some had made out.

Essential tweetage eitherway, they're doing a great job.
 
MarshMellow96 said:
Smithdown Road? Fuuuu shit better not kick off in Kensington - I don't fancy having my uni house burned down!
Click to expand...

I'm actually surprised nothing is going down by Kenny. I was at Old Swan's Tesco around 6 pm and it was rather chaotic in there. There was tons of people shopping, but just about 4 cashiers, queues were about 20 min long just to use the self-service check outs. Some one from the staff was saying that not many people went to work today and they were planning on closing earlier because they were afraid of something happening around the area.

Although seems like nothing happening around Old Swan, I live in the area and haven't heard the first police siren yet.
 
Sneds said:
I've just been talking to my gf about this. People generally don't do things for, what they consider to be, bad reasons. The reason people are rioting/looting now might be for very short term reasons, e.g. selling stolen iPods for cash, getting cred from friends, feeling powerful, clashing against authority figures.

Looking from the outside, we might consider these to be immoral/stupid/invalid reasons. But for the people actually engaged in the looting and violence, these ARE reasons. If we (and by we I mean English society) want to prevent this happening in future we actually need to understand these reasons. Only then can any change be accomplished. Simply saying 'people are rioting/looting because they're immoral idiots' won't actually prevent future rioting/looting.

Sure we can give the police increased powers to put-down this criminality but ultimately that's treating the symptom not the disease. The disease is the fact that there are hundreds of people in this country who have reasons for rioting/looting.

The shock of these riots for me has been that there are so many people in this country who want to riot/loot, not that they've been able to. As I said in this thread before, if you have a future worth protecting and are happy with your life, you're not going to loot a shop or set fire to a car because you've got something to lose.
Click to expand...

Fuck that, it's shit like this that led to sentencing young offenders to "holidays", want to stop future riots? Make no reward worth the draconian risk that comes down on your ass if caught, I mean like national service and forced time in Afghanistan, not touchy-feely bollocks.
 
gxgVq.jpg
 
zomgbbqftw said:
Err, notsureifserious?

The UK is a first world (apparently) country with a welfare state equivalent to a Bentley. Incentivising unemployed people to have kids who will then live their lives on the dole is why we are where we are.
Click to expand...


If people are going to have kids on £50 quid a week, they'll have kids on nothing. Our welfare state is one of the worst in Western Europe, and even then £17 billion a year of it goes unclaimed including tax benefits.. I wouldn't believe everything the News of the World tells you.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/10/britains-unclaimed-benefit-billions
 
nib95 said:
I wonder how many will use these riots as an excuse to turn the hate card on Black people. Millions of Black people in the country, a small idiotic minority partaking in the rioting/looting, but I can see it now, even on Facebook. Vilifying the Black minorities, it's starting. Oh well Muslims, you had a good run...
Click to expand...

BNP and that brigade will, but most people recognise it isn't a race issue.
 
Sneds said:
I've just been talking to my gf about this. People generally don't do things for, what they consider to be, bad reasons. The reason people are rioting/looting now might be for very short term reasons, e.g. selling stolen iPods for cash, getting cred from friends, feeling powerful, clashing against authority figures.

Looking from the outside, we might consider these to be immoral/stupid/invalid reasons. But for the people actually engaged in the looting and violence, these ARE reasons. If we (and by we I mean English society) want to prevent this happening in future we actually need to understand these reasons. Only then can any change be accomplished. Simply saying 'people are rioting/looting because they're immoral idiots' won't actually prevent future rioting/looting.

Sure we can give the police increased powers to put-down this criminality but ultimately that's treating the symptom not the disease. The disease is the fact that there are hundreds of people in this country who have reasons for rioting/looting.

The shock of these riots for me has been that there are so many people in this country who want to riot/loot, not that they've been able to. As I said in this thread before, if you have a future worth protecting and are happy with your life, you're not going to loot a shop or set fire to a car because you've got something to lose.
Click to expand...
I just gave you the reason - there is none. Stop trying to find some deeper reasoning behind this situation. They just want to set fire and loot stuff because they can. They have even blatantly stated this already. They are utter dipshits who even if they had some deeper meaning behind this wouldn't understand it. They don't even know who is in Parliament atm for fucks sake.

Many people who are down on their luck, don't have a future and are unhappy don't resort to wrecking other peoples lives, setting fire to property/belongings and destroying businesses either.
 
Sneds said:
I've just been talking to my gf about this. People generally don't do things for, what they consider to be, bad reasons. The reason people are rioting/looting now might be for very short term reasons, e.g. selling stolen iPods for cash, getting cred from friends, feeling powerful, clashing against authority figures.

Looking from the outside, we might consider these to be immoral/stupid/invalid reasons. But for the people actually engaged in the looting and violence, these ARE reasons. If we (and by we I mean English society) want to prevent this happening in future we actually need to understand these reasons. Only then can any change be accomplished. Simply saying 'people are rioting/looting because they're immoral idiots' won't actually prevent future rioting/looting.

Sure we can give the police increased powers to put-down this criminality but ultimately that's treating the symptom not the disease. The disease is the fact that there are hundreds of people in this country who have reasons for rioting/looting.

The shock of these riots for me has been that there are so many people in this country who want to riot/loot, not that they've been able to. As I said in this thread before, if you have a future worth protecting and are happy with your life, you're not going to loot a shop or set fire to a car because you've got something to lose.
Click to expand...


To begin, even though I know you're doing your best to find the root causes for these actions, you're really giving these people too much credit, both intellectually and emotionally.

One way I can think of to deter the sheer number of people around to do stuff like this would be to stop them from existing in the first place.

For that to happen, there'd need to be some pretty major social reforms on who gets welfare, how much welfare they receive, and what the limits for receiving it are. AKA, people should not continue to produce children after they go on welfare, if they do, state takes their children and welfare is cut off.

PROMOTING a lifestyle of handouts and entitlement is a generational thing that seems to have started from the time of these people's parents, and will only continue until people have the balls to say something non "politically correct" and stand up for themselves.

I hope something like this might cause a change like that to happen. Since these people are quite literally biting the hands that feed them by punishing the "rich" for being "rich".
 
butter_stick said:
I'm talking more about the "they didn't try in school, so fuck them!" mindset. People starting fires, I'm all for giving them a solid kick up the arse. But I'm talking more about the general culture issues.

Trust me I'm not trying to excuse the rioting. But to say kids don't try in school so it's their own fault they're failures as adults is kinda putting too much blame solely on the actions of a child.
Click to expand...
Sure, there are tons of underlying reasons and there will probably be talk and discussion about that for months to come.

But really, what is society to do? We give these people money to live, we give them freedom to make something of their lives. Do we need to help them every step of the way?

With these young people, a lot is to blame on the parents. But even with bad parents, someone of 14 or so nows it is wrong to rob people, burn cars and loot shops.

Personally, I'm done with this shit. I don't care anymore what happens to these people. I have seen videos in which a bleeding kid gets robbed, a girl is forced to jump from a window to safe herself from a burning house, people who lost their shops and have no money to start over, people who have lost their houses, assholes who threaten police and throw with fire bombs. I don't feel sorry for them anymore.
 
Osiris said:
Fuck that, it's shit like this that led to sentencing young offenders to "holidays", want to stop future riots? Make no reward worth the draconian risk that comes down on your ass if caught, I mean like national service and forced time in Afghanistan, not touchy-feely bollocks.
Click to expand...

Labour camps for any 16-30 year old unemployed for more than 3 years and not in some kind of education or training. Force them to work.
 
Osiris said:
Fuck that, it's shit like this that led to sentencing young offenders to "holidays", want to stop future riots? Make no reward worth the draconian risk that comes down on your ass if caught, I mean like national service and forced time in Afganistan, not touchy-feely bollocks.
Click to expand...

If you threatened one of the looters/rioters with national service, what do you think their response would be. Do you think it would stop them? Just because it would stop you/me doesn't mean it would stop them.

That's why I'm saying that we need to understand their reasoning in the first place. I'm not suggesting that their crimes shouldn't be punished, just that we need to understand why people are doing this in the first place. You can't stop someone doing something if you don't know why they're doing it.
 
Tomat said:
People talking like this doesn't make it much better. The whole "The world is fucked" mentality doesn't sound too different than what a lot of these kids out on the street are probably thinking.
Click to expand...

Our priorities as a society are completely ass backwards, and that is just the plain and simple truth. Until real change is made in what "our" values supposedly are you will continue to see things like this on an even grander scale. Americas are too damn lazy to do anything otherwise you would see it here as well. Entitlements are part of the problem, when you give people free handouts that they don't have to earn what stops them from taking things that aren't theirs? Nothing.
 
nib95 said:
I wonder how many will use these riots as an excuse to turn the hate card on Black people. Millions of Black people in the country, a small idiotic minority partaking in the rioting/looting, but I can see it now, even on Facebook. Vilifying the Black minorities, it's starting. Oh well Muslims, you had a good run...
Click to expand...

black people have been some of the most vociferous critics of the looters. and while retards like this have did everything they can to justify the riots, people with sense have banded together to do something about them
 
Sneds said:
Sure we can give the police increased powers to put-down this criminality but ultimately that's treating the symptom not the disease. The disease is the fact that there are hundreds of people in this country who have reasons for rioting/looting.

The shock of these riots for me has been that there are so many people in this country who want to riot/loot, not that they've been able to. As I said in this thread before, if you have a future worth protecting and are happy with your life, you're not going to loot a shop or set fire to a car because you've got something to lose.
Click to expand...

yes i agree. this is very concerning and it's hard to know what to do to deal with these attitudes and to bring people back into society, such that they feel connected rather than alienated. i've been looking at the reaction to the french riots in 2005 after someone brought them up as an analogue to these here earlier, and apparently all they did was introduce laws to help curb immigration and it made me terribly sad as those seem like plasters when you look at the extent of the violence.
 
nib95 said:
I wonder how many will use these riots as an excuse to turn the hate card on Black people. Millions of Black people in the country, a small idiotic minority partaking in the rioting/looting, but I can see it now, even on Facebook. Vilifying the Black minorities, it's starting. Oh well Muslims, you had a good run...
Click to expand...

More like it is reminding us that we already hate our fellow white people so much that it seems like a waste of mental energy to hate anyone else.
 
Sneds said:
If you threatened one of the looters/rioters with national service, what do you think their response would be. Do you think it would stop them? Just because it would stop you/me doesn't mean it would stop them.

That's why I'm saying that we need to understand their reasoning in the first place. I'm not suggesting that their crimes shouldn't be punished, just that we need to understand why people are doing this in the first place. You can't stop someone doing something if you don't know why they're doing it.
Click to expand...

Getting them to dig and fill holes all day will learn them. Tazer the ones that don't work fast enough.
 
Ponti said:
I just gave you the reason - there is none. Stop trying to find some deeper reasoning behind this situation. They just want to set fire and loot stuff because they can.
Click to expand...

I could set fire and loot stuff too. But I don't.

People do things/don't do things for reasons.
 
Sneds said:
I've just been talking to my gf about this. People generally don't do things for, what they consider to be, bad reasons. The reason people are rioting/looting now might be for very short term reasons, e.g. selling stolen iPods for cash, getting cred from friends, feeling powerful, clashing against authority figures.

Looking from the outside, we might consider these to be immoral/stupid/invalid reasons. But for the people actually engaged in the looting and violence, these ARE reasons. If we (and by we I mean English society) want to prevent this happening in future we actually need to understand these reasons. Only then can any change be accomplished. Simply saying 'people are rioting/looting because they're immoral idiots' won't actually prevent future rioting/looting.

Sure we can give the police increased powers to put-down this criminality but ultimately that's treating the symptom not the disease. The disease is the fact that there are hundreds of people in this country who have reasons for rioting/looting.

The shock of these riots for me has been that there are so many people in this country who want to riot/loot, not that they've been able to. As I said in this thread before, if you have a future worth protecting and are happy with your life, you're not going to loot a shop or set fire to a car because you've got something to lose.
Click to expand...

Fuck off. I don't want to "understand" mindless criminals I want them punished and punished so severely that they and their kind will never dare do it again.

They're born in a first world country with an extensive welfare state, they could not ask for more from life. They not only chose not to take advantage of it, they chose to actively attack it and ruin it for other people.

Hanging's too good for them.
 
Sneds said:
If you threatened one of the looters/rioters with national service, what do you think their response would be. Do you think it would stop them? Just because it would stop you/me doesn't mean it would stop them.

That's why I'm saying that we need to understand their reasoning in the first place. I'm not suggesting that their crimes shouldn't be punished, just that we need to understand why people are doing this in the first place. You can't stop someone doing something if you don't know why they're doing it.
Click to expand...

I don't care if the threat stops them, hand holding them isn't going to stop them, offering to help them help themselves isn't going to stop them, they don't want help, at least not any kind of help that isn't a handout.

Know what national service most likely will do? - It'll either rehabilitate them, or get them killed, eithers fine with me.
 
Sneds said:
I've just been talking to my gf about this. People generally don't do things for, what they consider to be, bad reasons. The reason people are rioting/looting now might be for very short term reasons, e.g. selling stolen iPods for cash, getting cred from friends, feeling powerful, clashing against authority figures.

Looking from the outside, we might consider these to be immoral/stupid/invalid reasons. But for the people actually engaged in the looting and violence, these ARE reasons. If we (and by we I mean English society) want to prevent this happening in future we actually need to understand these reasons. Only then can any change be accomplished. Simply saying 'people are rioting/looting because they're immoral idiots' won't actually prevent future rioting/looting.

Sure we can give the police increased powers to put-down this criminality but ultimately that's treating the symptom not the disease. The disease is the fact that there are hundreds of people in this country who have reasons for rioting/looting.

The shock of these riots for me has been that there are so many people in this country who want to riot/loot, not that they've been able to. As I said in this thread before, if you have a future worth protecting and are happy with your life, you're not going to loot a shop or set fire to a car because you've got something to lose.
Click to expand...

Fuck that. No matter who you think deserves the blame, if a person is to the point where they will happily riot merely to get their grubby hands on some loot, they are beyond redemption. They should be shot on sight, in my opinion. These fuckers aren't fighting for some kind of cause. They just want some free shit and to inflict misery upon others.

These fucks don't deserve some kind of special treatment or attention because they decided to turn into barbarians. They deserve a prison camp or death.
 
Ponti said:
I just gave you the reason - there is none. Stop trying to find some deeper reasoning behind this situation. They just want to set fire and loot stuff because they can. They have even blatantly stated this already. They are utter dipshits who even if they had some deeper meaning behind this wouldn't understand it. They don't even know who is in Parliament atm for fucks sake.

Many people who are down on their luck, don't have a future and are unhappy don't resort to wrecking other peoples lives, setting fire to property/belongings and destroying businesses either.
Click to expand...

It's all too easy for people not of that world or life to disassociate, since the truth is, we can't relate. We had a different life, with different prospects, parenting, socio economic standing, guidelines and so forth. Not to try and justify the actions of these violent rioters/looters (imo they should all be locked up, I won't shred an ounce of sympathy if I see one get battered by Police or civilians alike) but to simply lay all the blame on the youth and not see the bigger picture imo is equally irresponsible.

This kind of thing doesn't happen very often, and each time it does, the political and economic atmosphere is of a specific breed. When we're already at a time of economic crisis, with ridiculous house prices, huge unemployment, increased living costs and so forth, bigger cuts (especially those that affect the poor), higher educational fee's and so forth were ALWAYS going to cause unrest or anger. It was not far fetched to assume riots would take place. There have already been pockets of similar occurrences, ever since the new government took office really (Student uni fee's riots, teacher cuts riots etc).

These youths don't give a shit about Mr Joe Bloggs hairdressers, newsagents or electronics store, or multi billion dollar companies super markets or clothes store. And why would they? They're a million miles from it and if anything probably resent the success around them. Getting a freebie pair of trainers or TV naturally would be an enticing prospect.

There's some deep rooted problems in this country, and if we turn up the hate and point the finger, we're not going to solve diddly squat. Just alienate the minorities and margins further, simply putting a lid on a potential time bomb to erupt later.
 
Sneds said:
I could set fire and loot stuff too. But I don't.

People do things/don't do things for reasons.
Click to expand...
So why don't you? Maybe it's because you've reached a place in society where your position would be damaged if you were caught, or maybe you were taught morals and work ethic?

Either way this whole idea of rounding up looting Chavs and sending them off to war or whatever sounds a lot like burying your head in the sand.
 
Sneds said:
I've just been talking to my gf about this. People generally don't do things for, what they consider to be, bad reasons. The reason people are rioting/looting now might be for very short term reasons, e.g. selling stolen iPods for cash, getting cred from friends, feeling powerful, clashing against authority figures.

Looking from the outside, we might consider these to be immoral/stupid/invalid reasons. But for the people actually engaged in the looting and violence, these ARE reasons. If we (and by we I mean English society) want to prevent this happening in future we actually need to understand these reasons. Only then can any change be accomplished. Simply saying 'people are rioting/looting because they're immoral idiots' won't actually prevent future rioting/looting.

Sure we can give the police increased powers to put-down this criminality but ultimately that's treating the symptom not the disease. The disease is the fact that there are hundreds of people in this country who have reasons for rioting/looting.

The shock of these riots for me has been that there are so many people in this country who want to riot/loot, not that they've been able to. As I said in this thread before, if you have a future worth protecting and are happy with your life, you're not going to loot a shop or set fire to a car because you've got something to lose.
Click to expand...

Your pathetic, limp-dicked relativism is the exact reason this crap is happening.
 
Sneds said:
I've just been talking to my gf about this. People generally don't do things for, what they consider to be, bad reasons. The reason people are rioting/looting now might be for very short term reasons, e.g. selling stolen iPods for cash, getting cred from friends, feeling powerful, clashing against authority figures.

Looking from the outside, we might consider these to be immoral/stupid/invalid reasons. But for the people actually engaged in the looting and violence, these ARE reasons. If we (and by we I mean English society) want to prevent this happening in future we actually need to understand these reasons. Only then can any change be accomplished. Simply saying 'people are rioting/looting because they're immoral idiots' won't actually prevent future rioting/looting.

Sure we can give the police increased powers to put-down this criminality but ultimately that's treating the symptom not the disease. The disease is the fact that there are hundreds of people in this country who have reasons for rioting/looting.

The shock of these riots for me has been that there are so many people in this country who want to riot/loot, not that they've been able to. As I said in this thread before, if you have a future worth protecting and are happy with your life, you're not going to loot a shop or set fire to a car because you've got something to lose.
Click to expand...


You seem to have a lot of people arguing with this view, but to me it's plainly obvious that you're right.

These people have justified their actions and we need to start looking at why they were able to do that.

It doesn't mean 'going easy' on them or treating this any less seriously than it is - it means that once we've got this under control and stopped the actual rioting/looting/assaulting/etc, we need to start focusing on WHAT IS ACTUALLY WRONG WITH OUR SOCIETY/CULTURE.
 
Sneds said:
I could set fire and loot stuff too. But I don't.

People do things/don't do things for reasons.
Click to expand...

I'd like to think you aren't a total cunt. Which is why you aren't looting.

Now, these people are all cunts. They show no respect to the society and communities that support them.

I'd really love for the punishments to be (for the wrongdoers):

- Cancellation of all benefits.
- Prison.
- Community Service.
- Named and Shamed in the community.
 
nib95 said:
These youths don't give a shit about Mr Joe Bloggs hairdressers, newsagents or electronics store, or multi billion dollar companies super markets or clothes store. And why would they? They're a million miles from it and if anything probably resent the success around them. Getting a freebie pair of trainers or TV naturally would be an enticing prospect.
Click to expand...
A million miles away? They are looting local business and robbing houses and shops in their own neighbourhood. If you can't even care for your own neighbours, you are a lost cause.

IamMikeside said:
It doesn't mean 'going easy' on them or treating this any less seriously than it is - it means that once we've got this under control and stopped the actual rioting/looting/assaulting/etc, we need to start focusing on WHAT IS ACTUALLY WRONG WITH OUR SOCIETY/CULTURE.
Click to expand...
It's pretty clear what is wrong with society. There are too many assholes who don't care about anyone but themselves.
 
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