Support NeoGAF

[The Technomancer]

I am quite angry right now so maybe I'm not thinking right, but explain to me why you are opposed to deal harshly with those threatening teachers when the status quo allows many of these to get away with it at the expense of that teacher's self-respect, dignity and perhaps even career? Who are they to threaten anyone much less the one educating them for 7 hours a day for 5 days a week? How dare they confront their teacher. They may be able to get away with that attitude at home, but this person you are threatening is the difference between you having a career or having to collect benefit cheques.

One of the most disgusting things I've ever seen are good teachers - male and female - breaking down in tears in front of a class because of the vile abuse they get, to feel so frightened as to never return to that school again when they came there in the first place to just teach. I find the tears of a single teacher more heart breaking and disgusting than the cuts and bruises a 100 riot police can get from these cunts. If there is one thing where we should have a zero tolerance for, it is this in my opinion.

I fully agree, but removing them from education entirely is exactly what helps create an underclass of assholes like what we're seeing here.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I am quite angry right now so maybe I'm not thinking right, but explain to me why you are opposed to deal harshly with those threatening teachers when the status quo allows many of these to get away with it at the expense of that teacher's self-respect, dignity and perhaps even career? Who are they to threaten anyone much less the one educating them for 7 hours a day for 5 days a week? How dare they confront their teacher. They may be able to get away with that attitude at home, but this person you are threatening is the difference between you having a career or having to collect benefit cheques.

One of the most disgusting things I've ever seen are good teachers - male and female - breaking down in tears in front of a class because of the vile abuse they get, to feel so frightened as to never return to that school again when they came there in the first place to just teach. I find the tears of a single teacher more heart breaking and disgusting than the cuts and bruises a 100 riot police can get from these cunts. If there is one thing where we should have a zero tolerance for, it is this in my opinion.

Right wingers have long argued for a tougher stance on bad behaviour in schools only to be rebuffed by Labour and Conservatives over it. The total lack of respect is the problem, these cunts talk about how they are not respected by whoever, but they need to be forced to understand that respect must be earned. The country needs to take a zero tolerance approach to bad behaviour, not the ass backwards approach of the previous government that gave them iPods and laptops if they went a month without getting into trouble.

Sticks work better than carrots, also they are free.

 

[Chinner]

what you guys think about corporate punishment by removing limbs? for example for those people smashing the windows we would remove one of their hands.

 

[Osiris]

Replace ASBO's with a hybrid "national service" like community service system, work camps with military supervision to rehabilitate young offenders and instil, via bootcamp means, some discipline in those that are currently 'disenfranchised' to the point of anti-social, violent behaviour, include academic and vocational training to their schedules mixed with programs that give back to the communities they have wronged, all supervised and custodial.

Gives them a chance at self-improvement, acts as a deterant and limits the solution to those who need it and to those that society needs protection from.

And yeah, I'm serious.

 

[Facism]

Honestly, if I'm ever in London and a riot breaks out my Jewish Ass wants to be hanging out with the Sikhs, Turks, and Muslims! Honestly any sensible person should look at the EDL and say, sorry guys I'm hanging out the with immigrants who protect there stuff. lol

Turks have a pretty deep history when it comes to helping others.

 

[Spokker]

I fully agree, but removing them from education entirely is exactly what helps create an underclass of assholes like what we're seeing here.

In my area these people are sent to continuation school until they age out of the system. You would hear about other students being sent to "Gilbert" which is where all of the constant fuck ups go.

I have no idea what the ultimate plan for those students was but the immediate goal was to just get rid of them, which created a lot of relief for teachers.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Birth control works well enough. Condoms are the best investment a government can make. Give them out like candy. Cops should hand them out freely. Go to any cop to get your condoms. Create a sense of shame for those who don't use condoms. I come down hard on men who don't use condoms who otherwise don't want children.

If these people were rioting about condoms I would be air dropping them all over the place.

They don't use condoms because they want to have kids. More kids = bigger council house/more housing benefits, more child benefits, more child tax credits and multiple £500 lump sums.

Incentivising the unemployed to have kids was the worst long term decision ever taken by the previous government. Only people with jobs should be given extra incentives to have kids via tax breaks etc...

 

[painey]

looks like tonight was a lot better, right?

 

[The Technomancer]

I have no idea what the ultimate plan for those students was but the immediate goal was to just get rid of them, which created a lot of relief for teachers.

Right, which works out great. Until the dam bursts.

 

[Spokker]

They don't use condoms because they want to have kids. More kids = bigger council house/more housing benefits, more child benefits, more child tax credits and multiple £500 lump sums.

If we can incentivize having kids we can incentivize not having kids. And we can do the opposite for the educated. Nothing is stopping a government from hiring a good PR firm to create a slick campaign.

 

[Chinner]

should we have different schools/hospitals/ etc for poor people? its clear they cannot function within our society.

 

[Spokker]

Right, which works out great. Until the dam bursts.

True, but I don't knock the idea of getting rid of them. Their continued presence at the school really hurts teachers and other students. If instead of continuation school it was conscription, then we might see some better results. But that's inhumane.

should we have different schools/hospitals/ etc for poor people? its clear they cannot function within our society.

Poor does not necessarily equal criminal, unintelligent or lazy.

So no.

 

[Osiris]

I fully agree, but removing them from education entirely is exactly what helps create an underclass of assholes like what we're seeing here.

These people already remove themselves from the education system through truancy with impunity, how do you propose we help those that have zero desire already to help themselves, zero desire to use programs that are available and just want everything on a plate handed to them, because that's the case with the majority of those that are the problem.

 

[vordhosbn]

They work so damn hard too. Nothing but contempt for their willingness to earn by these plebs.

Environment plays a huge role in the ant-social nature we're seeing. Most of these kids were raised by single mothers whose household are correlated with benefits and a huge sense of entitlement. I think the root problem is a lack of fatherhood and essentially role models.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

If we can incentivize having kids we can incentivize not having kids. And we can do the opposite for the educated. Nothing is stopping a government from hiring a good PR firm to create a slick campaign.

It's easy. Change the child tax credit into an allowance. Unemployed people don't work, they don't pay taxes so they don't benefit from a tax allowance. That's how it used to be until Gordon changed it to suit his agenda.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I am quite angry right now so maybe I'm not thinking right, but explain to me why you are opposed to deal harshly with those threatening teachers when the status quo allows many of these to get away with it at the expense of that teacher's self-respect, dignity and perhaps even career? Who are they to threaten anyone much less the one educating them for 7 hours a day for 5 days a week? How dare they confront their teacher. They may be able to get away with that attitude at home, but this person you are threatening is the difference between you having a career or having to collect benefit cheques.

One of the most disgusting things I've ever seen are good teachers - male and female - breaking down in tears in front of a class because of the vile abuse they get, to feel so frightened as to never return to that school again when they came there in the first place to just teach. I find the tears of a single teacher more heart breaking and disgusting than the cuts and bruises a 100 riot police can get from these cunts. If there is one thing where we should have a zero tolerance for, it is this in my opinion.

Who would want to employ someone who has threatened teachers? Who want that type of person in their community much less society? Who would want to be identified as their parent? I'm not the one who is suggesting we remove them from society. I'm not the one who is provoking resentment; they are already full of resentment - they have set isolated themselves from society. I just want that stink of shit cleared up from the room.

You very are thinking straight. Agreed, it's fucking sad to watch a good teacher, whose only intention was to teach, begin to cry.

 

[Parl]

the reason why i gave you a sass about the elitism inherent in doing that by education is because you aren't normally a poster with terrible opinions and generally you like to bring in a bit of nuance to debates from what i've seen here and that you wouldn't just reject zomg's idea outright as the quasi-fascist bullshit it is is astounding to me.

I often don't state some things directly, but as you didn't get that impression, I do reject his idea. I don't really have much of an opinion on what should happen, because I haven't put much thought into it.

The first part of my post was intended to show how if you're going down the hard line discipline route of reasoning, what zomg said can easily be improved by having regular, typical education be the default, with further action being the alternative if that fails for certain individuals. That seems like a more reasonable proposal if you're coming at it from that direction.

 

[The Technomancer]

You very are thinking straight. Agreed, it's fucking sad to watch a good teacher, whose only intention was to teach, begin to cry.

Thats exactly the right course to take in order to help the teacher and to help the students who actually care. Removing the fuckers from the classroom is exactly the right move. The question is where to put them. It seems like just ignoring them is what helps lead to situations like the current riots.

Fuck them. You give the rest watching two choices and you make it damn clear their decision will shape their life 1) You respect your teachers and parents or 2) You fail at life right here, right now and this community no longer accepts you. GTFO out of this class.

The ones who walk out are the ones who have been looting this week.

Bingo.

 

[Joel Was Right]

I fully agree, but removing them from education entirely is exactly what helps create an underclass of assholes like what we're seeing here.

No. You see, you don't need to know what 1+1 is to know right from wrong. I updated my original post before you quoted it, but for these people to reach the mark where they feel that they can get in anyone's faces - even that of a teacher - demonstrates that they've, through their selfish and arrogant attitudes, displaced themselves from that very society. The fundamental point is that these type of changes should be for the benefit of every single soul in that school and community - if a couple cannot accept the level of respect required from them, then so be it. Fuck them. You give the rest watching two choices and you make it damn clear their decision will shape their life 1) You respect your teachers and parents or 2) You fail at life right here, right now and this community no longer accepts you. GTFO out of this class.

The ones who walk out are the ones who have been looting this week. The ones who accept option 1 will stand up, out of respect, of their free will whenever a teacher or member of staff enters the room. These are the people who will fear and respect their teachers more than their parents. These are the kids I want to govern this country and raise the next generation.

 

[Spokker]

The question is where to put them. It seems like just ignoring them is what helps lead to situations like the current riots.

Progressive ideas about how to "help them" can only go so far. I support those steps being taken. But at some point we have to fall back on our justice system to convict and incarcerate those who turn to a life of crime. As an aside, I'd like to see the non-violent drug offenders let go or steered into treatment so that those who rob and injure others always have a place to go. *wink*

If you can catch them before they enter a life of crime (or before they start doing bigger crimes) then conscription may yield some good results for those individuals. Failing that, incarceration will do the trick, though it will be expensive for taxpayers.

 

[Osiris]

One good thing about it being stupid idiots doing this crap rather than experienced criminals, is it looks like they are not too good at not getting caught

12.34am: Three teenage boys have been arrested in connection with the arson attack which destroyed the Sony distribution centre in Enfield, north London.

Scotland Yard said two 17-year-olds and an 18-year-old had been arrested in connection with violent disorder and the arson at the warehouse, used by record companies such as XL and Domino, who are behind acts including Adele and Arctic Monkeys. Two others remain in custody while a 17-year-old has been bailed.

12:41am: Meanwhile police have arrested two more people in connection with an arson attack in Croydon on the same night.

Scotland Yard detained a 15-year-old boy and a 25-year-old last night on suspicion of arson with intent to endanger life following the large fire that destroyed The House of Reeves furniture store.

Go Police!

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Thats exactly the right course to take in order to help the teacher and to help the students who actually care. Removing the fuckers from the classroom is exactly the right move. The question is where to put them. It seems like just ignoring them is what helps lead to situations like the current riots.

Boot camp. Learn them some fucking manners. If they don't like it the drill sergeant can make them dig a hole and fill it until they learn some fucking manners. No phones, no BBM, no facebook, no Twitter, nothing. Just drills, running and early starts. If they are unable to speak properly, force them to do so.

 

[Wiseblade]

I am quite angry right now so maybe I'm not thinking right, but explain to me why you are opposed to deal harshly with those threatening teachers when the status quo allows many of these to get away with it at the expense of that teacher's self-respect, dignity and perhaps even career? Who are they to threaten anyone much less the one educating them for 7 hours a day for 5 days a week? How dare they confront their teacher. They may be able to get away with that attitude at home, but this person you are threatening is the difference between you having a career or having to collect benefit cheques.

One of the most disgusting things I've ever seen are good teachers - male and female - breaking down in tears in front of a class because of the vile abuse they get, to feel so frightened as to never return to that school again when they came there in the first place to just teach. I find the tears of a single teacher more heart breaking and disgusting than the cuts and bruises a 100 riot police can get from these cunts. If there is one thing where we should have a zero tolerance for, it is this in my opinion.

Who would want to employ someone who has threatened teachers? Who want that type of person in their community much less society? Who would want to be identified as their parent? I'm not the one who is suggesting we remove them from society. I'm not the one who is provoking resentment; they are already full of resentment - they have set isolated themselves from society. I just want that stink of shit cleared up from the room.

I'm not saying that the abuse many teachers face is okay, but expelling children in a lot of cases is condemning them to become the people rioting on streets.

I don't think that children the age of 11-16 (because those are really the people we're talking about right now) have resigned themselves to living on the fringe of society, but many of them would end up there up they're given up on by the education system. A zero tolerance policy doesn't let people know what is and isn't acceptable, it just steers people further into career criminality. an infinite tolerance policy doesn't teach people the consequences of their actions either; there needs to be a balance that show students the consequences of their actions but also gives them a chance to correct themselves.

 

[Gary Whitta]

I donated a few bucks to this:

http://keepaaroncutting.blogspot.com/

 

[The Technomancer]

Progressive ideas about how to "help them" can only go so far. I support those steps being taken. But at some point we have to fall back on our justice system to convict and incarcerate those who turn to a life of crime. As an aside, I'd like to see the non-violent drug offenders let go or steered into treatment so that those who rob and injure others always have a place to go. *wink*

Still not an ideal solution. I don't know what prisons are like over in the UK, but the US's prison system is a fucking mess that is a huge drain on our resources, and "rehabilitation" under the current systems is a joke. It may keep them from harming others, but the state/country is still paying to feed and house them.

 

[Empty]

Thats exactly the right course to take in order to help the teacher and to help the students who actually care. Removing the fuckers from the classroom is exactly the right move. The question is where to put them. It seems like just ignoring them is what helps lead to situations like the current riots.

bingo. it's rational for me to want to remove them especially as they are losing out from being there too. you need specialist schools set up deliberately to engage those students with well paid professionals used to dealing with stressful situations, vocational class options and lots of direct interaction, as well as the ability to reintroduce them back into existing schools if they are doing well so you don't just exclude them from society entirely. of course education funding is low enough as is, but that's the dream for me.

 

[Yagharek]

Goddamn do I love reading your post there, meus. Totally agree.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I'm not saying that the abuse many teachers face is okay, but expelling children in a lot of cases is condemning them to become the people rioting on streets.

I don't think that children the age of 11-16 (because those are really the people we're talking about right now) have resigned themselves to living on the fringe of society, but many of them would end up there up they're given up on by the education system. A zero tolerance policy doesn't let people know what is and isn't acceptable, it just steers people further into career criminality. an infinite tolerance policy doesn't teach people the consequences of their actions either; there needs to be a balance that show students the consequences of their actions but also gives them a chance to correct themselves.

I don't think people mean absolute zero tolerance, stuff like an untucked shirt will lead to expulsion, but misbehaviour in class, throwing stuff at other students or the teacher needs to be met with strong measures. Continual misbehaviour and it's boot camp/national service or something like that.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

bingo. it's rational for me to want to remove them especially as they are losing out from being there too. you need specialist schools set up deliberately to engage those students with well paid professionals used to dealing with stressful situations, vocational class options and lots of direct interaction, as well as the ability to reintroduce them back into existing schools if they are doing well so you don't just exclude them from society entirely. of course education funding is low enough as is, but that's the dream for me.

This is where you lefties go wrong. People who don't want to engage won't engage unless you do it by force. As we've seen over the last few days, softly softly doesn't work when it comes to anti-social behaviour, it makes the cunts bolder.

 

[Joel Was Right]

I'm not saying that the abuse many teachers face is okay, but expelling children in a lot of cases is condemning them to become the people rioting on streets.

I don't think that children the age of 11-16 (because those are really the people we're talking about right now) have resigned themselves to living on the fringe of society, but many of them would end up there up they're given up on by the education system. A zero tolerance policy doesn't let people know what is and isn't acceptable, it just steers people further into career criminality. an infinite tolerance policy doesn't teach people the consequences of their actions either; there needs to be a balance that show students the consequences of their actions but also gives them a chance to correct themselves.

The word child has a lot of connotations, primarily ones that denote innocence and immaturity. There are a lot of immature things a child or teenager can do that I can think of. However, threatening or intimidating a teacher - not just an adult - is not childish behaviour; that is thuggery. I'll tell you one thing that's ironic - alot of these 'elders' in gangs agree that the 'youngins' are more aggressive than they are or have ever been. In fact of all the groups of people that express concern for youth culture, the older gang members are one of the most vocal - certainly in London. You'll see kids now aged 14 or even younger willing to carry knives or worse - something you couldn't imagine a decade ago.

You talk about where do they go after? Where do you think they go after school? Church? Home to their bedrooms? No. I'd rather they be anywhere else than in an environment like a school where those that pay are the teachers. Why bother keep them in an environment they clearly do not want to be in?

 

[Wiseblade]

I don't think people mean absolute zero tolerance, stuff like an untucked shirt will lead to expulsion, but misbehaviour in class, throwing stuff at other students or the teacher needs to be met with strong measures. Continual misbehaviour and it's boot camp/national service or something like that.

I'm not talking about an unbuttoned shirt either. I'm talking about children who haven't grasped that their teachers are people too and therefore don't see any problem with being disrespectful. Granted there are some people "who just want to watch the world burn" but many others who just haven't realised that teachers are human beings the same as them and deserve respect. Kick them out and they'll never empathise with anyone.

 

[Empty]

This is where you lefties go wrong. People who don't want to engage won't engage unless you do it by force. As we've seen over the last few days, softly softly doesn't work when it comes to anti-social behaviour, it makes the cunts bolder.

this isn't a softly, softly approach, though. i'm not suggesting schools where we sit them down and just tell them they are special for eight hours a day, these kids are plenty unruly and will need tough punishment for pulling shit at these places as well as therapy and classes. what it is is a combination and balance of carrot and stick, it's getting people engaged with education or work and wanting to be positive members of society because that's the right way to go about life, rather than just throwing all their chances away and hoping eventually you beat them into someone who at least respects order, but ends up a mindless automon while they are at it.

 

[Bleepey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o

Thoughts? He compares this to the Syrian uprisings.

The only thing that made me rage more were people posting it on their walls convinced he said something of any substance.

 

[Spokker]

The word child has a lot of connotations, primarily ones that denote innocence and immaturity. There are a lot of immature things a child or teenager can do that I can think of. However, threatening or intimidating a teacher - not just an adult - is not childish behaviour; that is thuggery.

Yeah. We're not talking about a student talking back to a teacher every now and then. You've got class clowns in any school. Once you bring the parents in the little bastard usually shuts up quickly anyway.

We are talking about criminals in the classroom. People who prey on educators as well as fellow students. While we're at it, you want to take care of the bullying problem? Stop treating "bullying" like a high school ritual and treat it for what it is, a crime.

 

[FOOTE]

I donated a few bucks to this:

http://keepaaroncutting.blogspot.com/

I hope he can collect enough to reopen his shop. Hopefully other some businesses that were destroyed are as fortunate as well.

 

[Empty]

I donated a few bucks to this:

http://keepaaroncutting.blogspot.com/

this is great but i want a way to donate to all small, locally run businesses effected by these riots, not just those with the most media and viral friendly story behind them. like the humble indie bundle or something but just for donations.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I'm not talking about an unbuttoned shirt either. I'm talking about children who haven't grasped that their teachers are people too and therefore don't see any problem with being disrespectful. Granted there are some people "who just want to watch the world burn" but many others who just haven't realised that teachers are human beings the same as them and deserve respect. Kick them out and they'll never empathise with anyone.

This is the problem, these little fuckers are absolutely desensitised to violence through gang culture and probably witnessing stabbings and murders. They don't give a shit about some poxy teacher, they are at school to get their £30 worth of EMA blud.

Like Meus was saying, these 14 year olds even scare the shit out of the gang elders because of their willingness to engage in casual violence against 'civilians' and non-gang members.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Yeah. We're not talking about a student talking back to a teacher every now and then. You've got class clowns in any school. Once you bring the parents in the little bastard usually shuts up quickly anyway.

We are talking about criminals in the classroom. People who prey on educators as well as fellow students. While we're at it, you want to take care of the bullying problem? Stop treating "bullying" like a high school ritual and treat it for what it is, a crime.

Oh, no, I'm not talking about ones who talk back. I'm talking about the cunts who

• Kick members of staff down staircases
• Get in the faces (nose to nose) of teachers and members of staff
• Threaten them with violence
• Hit them, leading to that member of staff or teacher being brused or shedding blood

Do I want the Head Master (Principle) walk in the class and escort them out? No, I want the fucking police to escort them out with handcuffs, and that's being liberal - I'd rather see them get a good beating first.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

this isn't a softly, softly approach, though. i'm not suggesting schools where we sit them down and just tell them they are special for eight hours a day, these kids are plenty unruly and will need tough punishment for pulling shit at these places as well as therapy and classes. what it is is a combination and balance of carrot and stick, it's getting people engaged with education or work and wanting to be positive members of society because that's the right way to go about life, rather than just throwing all their chances away and hoping eventually you beat them into someone who at least respects order, but ends up a mindless automon while they are at it.

You don't know that, and even if they do, I would rather have a mindless automaton than a feral looter/arsonist cunt.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

If we can incentivize having kids we can incentivize not having kids. And we can do the opposite for the educated. Nothing is stopping a government from hiring a good PR firm to create a slick campaign.

Pay them for voluntary sterilization? Hell give them a huge lump sum at first.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Pay them for voluntary sterilization? Hell give them a huge lump sum at first.

£5k for a vasectomy. Then legalise drugs and tax them at 50% so you get £2.5k back...

 

[Spokker]

and that's being liberal - I'd rather see them get a good beating first.

Haha, same here buddy. I hold a lot of liberal viewpoints but even I feel it's a bit much sometimes. Riots, especially senseless ones committed by entitled assholes, have a habit of doing that to a person.

 

[Joel Was Right]

We are talking about criminals in the classroom. People who prey on educators as well as fellow students. While we're at it, you want to take care of the bullying problem? Stop treating "bullying" like a high school ritual and treat it for what it is, a crime.

If I aired my views on bullying, I'd probably get a knock on the door tomorrow from the Met. Just thinking about it now infuriates me.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

£5k for a vasectomy. Then legalise drugs and tax them at 50% so you get £2.5k back...

I'd even say $15K for a couple. You don't want one half to just keep screwing, but keeping the kids in their family.

Extreme short sighted thinking and the prospect of 15K right there (hell tax free) should do the job.

 

[Count Dookkake]

We need the dunce cap to return.

 

[Empty]

You don't know that, and even if they do, I would rather have a mindless automaton than a feral looter/arsonist cunt.

i'm being dramatic. i would rather have civility than mindless vandalism, but by throwing people into national service before doing everything you can to assist them you aren't helping anyone.

Pay them for voluntary sterilization? Hell give them a huge lump sum at first.

there's no way of doing that which isn't ludicrously exploitative. struggling people just laid off as twenty somethings are going to throw away their futures for some quick cash, and addicts are fucked. it's so dumb when you can start tapering off child benefits for those out of work in the long term to only the bare essentials needed for the kid to survive after a certain number of kids and disincentive that behaviour.

 

[ReBurn]

We need the dunce cap to return.

The dunce cap...OF JUSTICE!!!

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

there's no way of doing that which isn't ludicrously exploitative. struggling people just laid off as twenty somethings are going to throw away their futures for some quick cash, and addicts are fucked. it's so dumb when you can start tapering off child benefits for those out of work in the long term to only the bare essentials needed for the kid to survive after a certain number of kids and disincentive that behaviour.

But then don't you just hurt the children in the end? It also ensures the kid will be treated like crap as they cut the benefits off, not the least the problem of people trying to "hide" the child or worse.

 

[leadbelly]

OMG! It looks like Iran has stepped up their trolling.

UK riots: Iran calls on UN to intervene over 'violent suppression'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/uk-riots-iran-un-mahmoud-ahmadinejad
I can't help but laugh.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

i'm being dramatic. i would rather have civility than mindless vandalism, but by throwing people into national service before doing everything you can to assist them you aren't helping anyone.

Sure I am, I'm helping the law abiding masses by keeping these people off the streets and making sure that once they are back into society they know the order of things, i.e. respect your community and live within it.

I am also doing it cheaply, a drill sergeant is paid maybe £30k a year, your specialists would cost much, much more, the end result is the same, a respectful young adult better equipped for the real world.