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[Trazyn the Infinite]

We have no idea how Annatar looks like when interacting with other people and trying to manipulate them. Of course he's going to look evil when no one is nearby for him to pretend to be a good guy. That's basic visual storytelling.

You are correct.

Some of you are the ones showing a dismissive and mindless attitude. You're taking frames out of context and misjudging them because you've already decided you're going to hate this.

Many of us are long time, life-long fans and everything we have been shown doesn’t seem to mesh well with what Tolkien has written. We are critical not because we *want* this to be bad. Suggesting such is idiotic. We want this to be good, but given all the press releases prior to the trailers, the testimony of notable folks working for the Tolkien estate, statements by the creators themselves - there are plenty of great reasons as to why we are very wary.

When we get to see him in his manipulative act, we'll see if the actor does a good job or not.

Then they should have *shown* that. Instead they are actively bringing about controversy.

 

[SirKicksalot]

Not sure that rules out sauron TBH .

They'll keep his identity secret, the big twist for normie audiences.

 

[Kev Kev]

Actually, it seems this may not be Sauron at all, because, apparently, that's Bridie Sisson, a female actress.

Oh good point

Perhaps they are purposefully misleading us about Annatar’s appearance. I believe he was a shape shifter so it makes sense that we don’t know exactly who he is and what he looks like. Interesting…

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Here is my speculation on how the show will go.

Spoiler: Potential arc

Season 1: Early signs of the return of Sauron. Ends with the forging of the Rings and Sauron being revealed as a traitor. Strife in Numenor.
Season 2: Numenorean Civil War. Ar-Pharazon siezes control of Numenor. Meanwhile the people of Middle earth get wrecked. At the end of the season, Ar-Pharazon is requested to help. Cliff hanger on if he will.
Season 3: Numenor's War on Sauron. They take him back to Numenor where they're slowly seduced by him. Ends with the downfall of Numenor and the arrival of Elendil's people to Middle-earth
Season 4: The founding of Gondor and Arnor. They have to deal with basically being refugees and regaining their confidence and finding a place in Middle Earth, while also dealing with some of the people they've wronged during their colonial period. Sauron returns at the end of the season
Season 5: War of the Last Alliance.

 

[Artoris]

Here is my speculation on how the show will go.

Spoiler: Potential arc

Season 1: Early signs of the return of Sauron. Ends with the forging of the Rings and Sauron being revealed as a traitor. Strife in Numenor.
Season 2: Numenorean Civil War. Ar-Pharazon siezes control of Numenor. Meanwhile the people of Middle earth get wrecked. At the end of the season, Ar-Pharazon is requested to help. Cliff hanger on if he will.
Season 3: Numenor's War on Sauron. They take him back to Numenor where they're slowly seduced by him. Ends with the downfall of Numenor and the arrival of Elendil's people to Middle-earth
Season 4: The founding of Gondor and Arnor. They have to deal with basically being refugees and regaining their confidence and finding a place in Middle Earth, while also dealing with some of the people they've wronged during their colonial period. Sauron returns at the end of the season
Season 5: War of the Last Alliance.

That would not be bad

 

[Batiman]

Seems like there’s gonna be a lot of hate watchers in this thread when the show drops. Looking for anything to criticize while they’ve already decided the show will be trash months ago. You’d think they wouldn’t even watch it

 

[AJUMP23]

Batiman i am skeptical but like any show it will have stuff I like and stuff I don’t. Hopefully it will be interesting. Not everything can be perfect like Band of Brothers.

 

[Dr_Salt]

Seems like there’s gonna be a lot of hate watchers in this thread when the show drops. Looking for anything to criticize while they’ve already decided the show will be trash months ago. You’d think they wouldn’t even watch it

I mean I don't blame them considering everything we know that has been going on behind doors with this production.

 

[Batiman]

I mean I don't blame them considering everything we know that has been going on behind doors with this production.

But if you were so sure a show was gonna be trash and claimed it’s ruining the lore would you waste your time even watching an episode?

 

[John_Ryder]

I guarantee that 99% of the people outraged about racial and cannon purity in this show have never read, or cared about Tolkien's extensive and somewhat boring writings on these time periods. Hell probably 85% of them never even read the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, they just saw the movies. Most people are just learning some of this lore right now, so that they can argue on the internet.

The show looks good visually, and meshes well with Peter Jackson's movies. Whether or not it follows cannon doesn't matter so much as whether or not it has good writing and good characters. Since Tolkien's writings on these periods are historical and dry, they would have to make up almost everything whether they stuck to his exact history or not. The new Game of Thrones show is in much the same boat, although they have better people involved and GRRM to lean on.

I will be watching the show, and I hope it is good. It has to be better than Wheel of Time....

I guarantee that 83% of statistics are made up.

 

[BadBurger]

The new trailer was great. A little spooky at times even, like the Shelob scene from Return.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

I guarantee that 83% of statistics are made up.

I'm gonna need to see the standard deviation.

 

[sol_bad]

That new trailer is really good, way more hyped for this than the new GoT show. Everything about this show looks beautiful as fuck.

 

[Dr_Salt]

But if you were so sure a show was gonna be trash and claimed it’s ruining the lore would you waste your time even watching an episode?

I guess it depends on your level of masochisim.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

But if you were so sure a show was gonna be trash and claimed it’s ruining the lore would you waste your time even watching an episode?

I was sure some shows would be terrible that ended up great. And I was also sure some shows that would be great ended up terrible. You can get a definite answer by watching the show. You should know this, but given your previous post:

Seems like there’s gonna be a lot of hate watchers in this thread when the show drops. Looking for anything to criticize while they’ve already decided the show will be trash months ago. You’d think they wouldn’t even watch it

It seems you have an issue reading and bothering to try to understand where people are coming from and instead like to push strawman and disingenuous arguments? Why bother? Who are you trying to win imaginary points for?

 

[Tieno]

Out of all nerd culture, Lord of The Rings is my first and true love. After the first LOTR movie in the 2000's, I devoured the books, the Silmarillion and Tolkien's Letters . At that time I never expected we would get to see some of first and second age stuff. I'm here for this. I love it.

 

[IDKFA]

It is just another point in their culture war crap that they are using to drive subs or to sell stupid pills or even more scarily push some form of white nationalism.

There was an interesting article about how modern art and impressionism was getting attacked by your typical extreme culture war fighters.

Criticism of Amazon's handling of Tolkien's legacy is pushing white nationalism? What?

 

[Pegasus Actual]

But if you were so sure a show was gonna be trash and claimed it’s ruining the lore would you waste your time even watching an episode?

Because talking shit about it with your friends or just watching some YouTuber eviscerate it will be hilarious.

But I don't really care that much about LotR. Liked the movies, always got bored by the books, though The Hobbit book was pretty okay when I was like 11. So, if this one is bad I'll probably just drop it and save my hate-watches for Star Trek

 

[gimmmick]

Jesus Christ, how much did amazon spend to make this series? Looks top notch on the production scale.

 

[V1LÆM]

that new trailer is much better. getting excited now looks great. let's just hope the writing is good.

Jesus Christ, how much did amazon spend to make this series? Looks top notch on the production scale.

$250 million just for the rights to make it. $100-150 million per season. Season 1 has 8 episodes so it'll be about $12.5-18.7 million per episode (Game of Thrones ended up at ~$15 million per episode in the final season). They plan on having 5 seasons so should work out between $750 million and $1 billion total.

 

[Batiman]

Because talking shit about it with your friends or just watching some YouTuber eviscerate it will be hilarious.

But I don't really care that much about LotR. Liked the movies, always got bored by the books, though The Hobbit book was pretty okay when I was like 11. So, if this one is bad I'll probably just drop it and save my hate-watches for Star Trek

I’m not sure if you’re serious or not….

 

[SJRB]

Actually, it seems this may not be Sauron at all, because, apparently, that's Bridie Sisson, a female actress.

You really think they wouldn't cast a woman for that role?

Especially how you can barely make out the character's gender in that trailer, I wouldn't write off the possibility that it actually is Sauron.

 

[Tieno]

Sauron was a shape shifter and a trickster (hence the rings), an androgynous shape could be one of them. In that way, he reminds me a bit of Loki.

 

[darrylgorn]

My hype meter is rising and so is the potential for screwing this all up lol

 

[Tieno]

the destruction of the two trees and the shadow of morgoth in the background. must be one of the case by case special exceptions they made. fucking awesome. cant wait to see what other exceptions they made. if they let them show morgoth, even a shadow of him, thats pretty huge and i imagine we might some other first age stuff that we arent expecting

I'm with you man, one of the images from The Silmarillion that stayed with me all these years is the awaking of the elves. I hope we get that one too.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Bear killing it as usual.

 

[jason10mm]

Bear killing it as usual.

Why isn't he and the violinist wearing masks but all the rest are? Choice, or just more inconsistent Hollywood rules?

 

[Corpsepyre]

Why isn't he and the violinist wearing masks but all the rest are? Choice, or just more inconsistent Hollywood rules?

Who the fuck knows anymore?

 

[Batiman]

Why isn't he and the violinist wearing masks but all the rest are? Choice, or just more inconsistent Hollywood rules?

Probably by choice I’m assuming

 

[Punished Miku]

Almost 100% on par with the Jackson trilogy in terms of production values. Insane.

 

[jason10mm]

Probably by choice I’m assuming

It's just weird. The wind guys and vocalists can't wear masks pretty much by default, the string folks are universally masked from what I can tell, yet the conductor and featured violinist....also not masked. Just seems odd to me but whatevs. I dig Bear and like his stuff and am.not one to disparage an orchestra, they are underappreciated enough as is.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I’m not sure if you’re serious or not….

That's probably the sentiment of most die-hard critics on the internet nowadays. Sadly.

 

[killatopak]

Almost 100% on par with the Jackson trilogy in terms of production values. Insane.

It has four times the budget. Something is very wrong if they can’t even match Jackson’s.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

Criticism of Amazon's handling of Tolkien's legacy is pushing white nationalism? What?

Guy clearly isn’t very bright.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Here is my speculation on how the show will go.

Spoiler: Potential arc

Season 1: Early signs of the return of Sauron. Ends with the forging of the Rings and Sauron being revealed as a traitor. Strife in Numenor.
Season 2: Numenorean Civil War. Ar-Pharazon siezes control of Numenor. Meanwhile the people of Middle earth get wrecked. At the end of the season, Ar-Pharazon is requested to help. Cliff hanger on if he will.
Season 3: Numenor's War on Sauron. They take him back to Numenor where they're slowly seduced by him. Ends with the downfall of Numenor and the arrival of Elendil's people to Middle-earth
Season 4: The founding of Gondor and Arnor. They have to deal with basically being refugees and regaining their confidence and finding a place in Middle Earth, while also dealing with some of the people they've wronged during their colonial period. Sauron returns at the end of the season
Season 5: War of the Last Alliance.

That would ok. Except you’re forgetting one thing - there will be major focus on Galadriel while what you’re saying puts the focus on the Numenoreans and Sauron - which would be the right thing to do. And which is why it won’t happen - they’ll fit in “harfoots” as well.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Sauron was a shape shifter and a trickster (hence the rings), an androgynous shape could be one of them. In that way, he reminds me a bit of Loki.

I still have doubts whether Sauron had his shapeshifting abilities in the second age. But also, why not cast a man? Also, why would he choose to take the form of a woman?

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

This is fucking hilarious. It's like they went back to the rejected ROTK design and removed everything that was good.

Who is this meant to be?

 

[Artoris]

Who is this meant to be?

an early orc

 

[Ulysses 31]

Who is this meant to be?

Several sites say it's Sauron.

If true, very subtle of them to have a white, blond blue eyed be the biggest evil in the show.

 

[jason10mm]

Several sites say it's Sauron.

If true, very subtle of them to have a white, blond blue eyed be the biggest evil in the show.

Or that the original sin came from a woman....

 

[BadBurger]

If that is Annatar / Sauron, I applaud it. Looks sinister. Maybe how a corrupt Maiar would envision themselves as in elven form.

For those that don't know, Sauron is the same as Gandalf and Saruman - a spirit that was originally created to help the lesser gods. Unlike Gandalf and Saruman, however, his power is not purposefully limited while on Arda (the world), nor is he confined to a single physical form at this point in time. He took the form of an elf for deceptive purposes. This is why he doesn't appear as he did in the movies - with the cool armor and all.

 

[pramod]

So Sauron is an emo teenager?

BTW, looking at the comments to this trailer, has the haters already won? Is this show DOA?

 

[Toytown Assassin]

So Sauron is an emo teenager?

BTW, looking at the comments to this trailer, has the haters already won? Is this show DOA?

No the show is not DOA. Hardly anyone follows internet drama. Tons of people will watch and It'll all depend on if it is any good or not. Hopefully it's not another shitshow like wheel of time.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Wait, who is that emo Eminem bleached eyebrows motherfucker supposed to be?

My money is on Sauron.

Also, is it a lore mistake when one of the characters refers to Sauron as such? I thought this was set before the sinking of Numenor? How would know the guy is Sauron?

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

So Sauron is an emo teenager?

BTW, looking at the comments to this trailer, has the haters already won? Is this show DOA?

These comments are hilarious. I find them more entertaining than the trailer itself.

 

[sinnergy]

Just watched the trailer , the trailer looks very good, interesting. Don’t understand all the ruckus.

 

[StealthGoblin]

It has four times the budget. Something is very wrong if they can’t even match Jackson’s.

And considering TLOR broke new ground in many ways (Gollum, Bigiatures etc) then I’m expecting this budget to go a lot further as they won’t be doing anything new.

 

[AJUMP23]

They just have to make something Bezos likes.

 

[The Cockatrice]

BTW, looking at the comments to this trailer, has the haters already won? Is this show DOA?

Take a guess.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

BTW, looking at the comments to this trailer, has the haters already won? Is this show DOA?

Just watched the trailer , the trailer looks very good, interesting. Don’t understand all the ruckus.

I really doubt all this hate was made naturally from people skeptical about the capability of the producers to stick to the source material. I mean, according to Youtube comments and that dislike extension, it seems like vast majority of people watching these trailers on youtube are hating it.

And let's be real... how many of these actually read ANYTHING of Lord of the Rings? Most of these people have only seen the Peter Jackson's movie and The Hobbit, if that much. And no one can deny that the trailers actually look good, so it wasn't because they sucked or anything.

I don't have a Twitter account so I don't follow the trends there. But it looks to me that there might have a strong campaign to see this show flopping, and said campaign has already reached the general audience.