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[HardRojo]

Tomb Raider 2013 is one of the worst games I've ever played, but it seems to be very divisive, as some people like it a lot, while others (like me) don't feel it's anything important.
I have yet to play RotTR, and I really hope it's improved in every way. Hopefully the PS4 version won't suffer from the input lag the XBO version apparently has.

Edit: Well shit, hello top of the page.

 

[dragonflys545]

Unfortunately the story is a piece of shit. Which to me is very important in today's AAA linear story driven games. Without that the game felt like a drag to play, I just wanted it to end in like 5-6 hours into it.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Yeah?

 

[-griffy-]

Yes, but I guess I found that mostly useless. You're better off mashing x to jump in the automatic direction than deliberating at ledges, slowing you down. You're always headed in one direction anyway, so the choice to stretch out your arms to one ledge versus another is arbitrary anyway. Just my thoughts. But yeah, I guess it is something extra the other Uncharteds did not have.

People always say the platforming/climbing in Uncharted is automatic, which I don't understand as a complaint at all. I don't get how it's automatic compared to something like Tomb Raider, or any other game, like Assassin's Creed. You can't just press X to go in the automatic direction. If you just press X he will try to jump straight up, if there's nothing above you he will do nothing at all. You need to point the analog stick in a direction for him to jump, like how you move a character in any video game. You point where you want to go, you press the jump button to jump. It's not automatic. That shit isn't gonna climb itself. You gotta do the climbing.

I fucking enjoy the climbing in Uncharted, and especially in Uncharted 4. It looks better than climbing in any other game because the animation is so improved, the feedback when making your choices and reaching with the analog stick feels really good as you're playing, they really opened up the options in many areas so it isn't one main path but many different paths that all lead to where you need to go, combat areas have many surfaces to climb on making it a viable and useful tool while fighting, etc. It's fun. The way Nate moves in the environment, the amount of control you have, the feedback the animation and physics working together provide, it all comes together to make the simple locomotion of your character around the environment a real joy.

 

[lukeskymac]

Flawed as it is, Uncharted 4 is still miles and miles ahead of neo-TR in every single aspect. It's a 9/10 to 6/10 comparison, I can't even get angry at this anymore.

 

[plasmawave]

Is it all that surprising? I can't remember a damn thing about UC1-3's story. And the trailer they showed in PSX with Drake doing nothing but talking to his brother is really not fun.

Well I was talking about the part where you agreed with OP saying TR2013 is better than UC4 without playing the game for yourself.

 

[kyser73]

People say it every night, every morning, every afternoon

And it's always true

I don't have a problem with the basic criticism, but the extended essays on the subject seem to be attempts to compensate for a possible perceived lack of depth to the criticism.

Also it isn't true.

I remember reading an interview with Jimi Hendrix made just before he died, where he bemoans the fact that his fanbase only wanted to hear his classic songs, the blues-enroll style, rather than ha more recent material. Same applies here - despite many saying 'Yeah we want something new.' prior to release, people did just want more of the same.

 

[paperspace]

Flawed as it is, Uncharted 4 is still miles and miles ahead of neo-TR in every single aspect. It's a 9/10 to 6/10 comparison, I can't even get angry at this anymore.

Why would you get angry?

 

[SRTtoZ]

I do think that 2013 was better than ROTTR by a big margin, but overall it was still a very mediocre game factoring Story AND gameplay. I enjoyed the gameplay but it was way too simple, and as far as dialogue and story go, its one of the worst most cringey games ive ever played only beaten by ROTTR. Uncharted 4 is masterclass compared to it and the reviews show that.

 

[Aters]

Well I was talking about the part where you agree with OP saying TR2013 is better than UC4 without playing the game for yourself.

You are right, I shouldn't say I agree with OP, but I do know where he's coming from.

 

[breakfuss]

I enjoy Tomb Raider more than Uncharted as well. I don't think it's that controversial of an opinion, OP. Excellent write-up btw...bookmarked as I can't read it all until I've finished UC4. Nearing the end I believe but yeah, it's pretty much doing the same thing that UC1-3 did for me. Which isn't very much. To each their own, I guess. One thing I will say is that the visuals and attention to detail in UC is unrivaled.

 

[Bold One]

It doesn't have the same zest or verve. It attempts to ape the formula without understanding what endears it. It's Crystal Dynamic's Batman v Superman to Naughty Dog's Civil War.

Both are games that should played by adventure fans everywhere and I will be picking up TR2015 when it reaches PS4 at some point. However, ND really gets it, and you'll understand that if you've seen Bossman at Home's latest segment on context.



you'll never do this in TR though

Courtesy of Sunhi -

 

[ForsakenLotus]

I appreciate that you explained in detail your thoughts on the opinion, but all I can really respond with is I disagree. I understand people who like TR2013's gunplay more (though I don't), but about everything else you said seems hypercritical of UC4 or oddly hyperbolic for TR2013.

Certainly there is a clear difference in technical and artistic quality in the games.

 

[GravityInsanity]

Yeah?

The fighting has been improve greatly compared to the previous games. This is a little stealth takedown which looks more smoother than UC2-3 and better.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Still no news for the PS4 edition of Rise of the Tomb Raider. Disappointed.

 

[The Lamp]

Both are games that should played by adventure fans everywhere and I will be picking up TR2015 when it reaches PS4 at some point. However, ND really gets it, and you'll understand that if you've seen Bossman at Home's latest segment on context.



you'll never do this in TR though

Courtesy of Sunhi -

These were my favorite moments in Uncharted 4.

Too bad they are so rare and compromised by other, unimpressive gameplay.

 

[lukeskymac]

Why would you get angry?

Because I feel like I'm at an insane asylum whenever someone says they prefer neo-TR over Uncharted and use damn near objectively wrong arguments to do so.

Like the classic "they really nailed the bow!" when referring to the semi-automatic chargeable rifle disguised as a bow that you see on the cover, for example.

 

[Ascenion]

These were my favorite moments in Uncharted 4.

Too bad they are so rare and compromised by other, unimpressive gameplay.

Pretty much. I think I can literally count the opportunities to do this on one hand.

 

[bananafactory]

The Tomb Raider games have a few mechanical elements that are superior to Uncharted, but they're wrapped in such a mess of a game and awful story and characters it's hard to enjoy any of it.

 

[Nightengale]

To me, TR games are the ones with the stronger density of fun gameplay, deeper mechanics and IMO, delivers better moment to moment gratification than Uncharted.

But on the flip side of that, I have come out of TR and what little I've played of ROTR with no resonance or strong memory/attachment to what I've played. It's similar to how I felt playing the Division. Fun game, but I can't feel myself being invested in it, even though it's more fun.

That is the difference for me. Uncharted games, while mechanically less dense, is able to leave stronger impressions on me.

 

[Colonel Nasty]

I agree OP, granted I haven't finished U4 (chapter 18) I just enjoy playing TR more. Rise is phenomenal and worth a shot if you're a PS4 owner. The Uncharted gameplay is so bland to me. The stealth isn't great and neither is the shooting. Feels like a half step in both directions. U4 has a better characters but the story so meh that gameplay just makes more of a difference for me.

 

[Bold One]

These were my favorite moments in Uncharted 4.

Too bad they are so rare and compromised by other, unimpressive gameplay.

very odd, I thought there were far too many encounters though they were expertly designed, those moments were great pay offs after some traversal platforming sections

also when you factor in the excellent multiplayer, I am baffled by how anyone can claim TR is the better game.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I thought the bow was fun, but the story and characters were so horrid that it made me dislike the rest of the game's middling parts that much more.

 

[UpwindPoet24]

I don't want no crafting or leveling up in my uncharted, TR can keep that. I know when I go into Uncharted in expecting a well told story with likeable, rootable characters wrapped up in gorgeous graphics and decent gameplay.

 

[Ascenion]

very odd, I thought there were far too many encounters though they were expertly designed, those moments were great pay offs after some traversal platforming sections

also when you factor in the excellent multiplayer, I am baffled by how anyone can claim TR is the better game.

What. Are you serious?

 

[Harmen]

I really liked TR013, but felt the game was too dragged out near the end (game lost it's momentum for me). It also has annoying side characters which don't fit the narrative at all tonally. Actually, the plot is really average and forgettable, with bad pacing (story pacing, with character developments almost coming off as binary switches). The RPG elements felt out of place for me. I like upgrading systems, but I don't like them when basic moves are locked initially for the sake of having an upgrade system (isn't melee locked as a whole initially? Makes no sense). I don't remember a single puzzle, so that element didn't really leave an impression on me at all.

Still, there were moments of greatness in TR and I really look forward to ROTTR, but TR2013 is not really close to UC2-4 for me personally. Bow and the feeling of melee were elements I liked over UC, though. And I wish there were more memorable encounters like the one with

Spoiler

the samurai

, because the memorable encounters that were there were pretty great. Unfortunately they were a bit spread thin for me.

you'll never do this in TR though

Courtesy of Sunhi -

I think the combat in UC4 is stellar. You can make the game almost seem like an on rails quick time event in how smooth and stylish it can look. And many of the encounters allow for badass moments like this. I actually recommend people giving easy mode a try and just go all out swinging, running and gunning, and punching/kicking. With that playstyle, easy still poses enough of a challenge actually.

I also remember seeing a vid here on gaf with a guy slinging trough a late game encounter with a grenade launcher like a badass,

 

[HardRojo]

To me, TR games are the ones with the stronger density of fun gameplay, deeper mechanics and IMO, delivers better moment to moment gratification than Uncharted.

This is simply false. All those pseudo RPG mechanics are shallow at best and add nothing of value to the gameplay in the end.
I've always believed that people think TR 2013's gunplay is good because they get this fake sense of achievement from scoring headshots left and right on the enemy AI (or lack thereof).

 

[MaybeBurger]

to each their own but the magical storm nonsense = worse

I dont remember TR2013 much.

 

[Lion Heart]

U4 is a much much better game, experience, whatever. I haven't played the newest TR outside of the abysmal Bone demo which had unparalleled lag in the aiming but comparing 13s Raider with U4 and I really appreciated the small things in U4.

The combat is so much more fluid, dynamic, and straight up fun in U4, the world you explore is also so much more enjoyable to traverse. The characters and story in U4 is like B tv movie to a fantastic summer blockbuster. I was interested in seeing what happens next the whole way through, context really is a massive factor in pushing through a game. I couldn't care less about Laras character and if she died and you replace her halfway through, I would actually find that more thrilling.

After U4 ended I reflected on the adventure and it actually made me think about my own life as the theme of aging and change is beautifully conveyed. I don't think I even remember the ending of TR.

On paper TR does some cool things, open world, Tombs with supposedly challenging puzzles, but then you play it and none of it is remarkable.

 

[Bold One]

I don't want no crafting or leveling up in my uncharted, TR can keep that. I know when I go into Uncharted in expecting a well told story with likeable, rootable characters wrapped up in gorgeous graphics and decent gameplay.

This is probably TR's best trick, other games with RPG elements have conditioned gamers to associate bar-filling and open-world collectathons with actual depth and complexity.

I remembered receiving the compound bow toward the end of TR and thinking, wow, this is pointless, I was already slaying legions of dudes with makeshift twig and string bow form the minute 1.

 

[Coolbgdog12]

Meh, I thought TR2013 was sort of alright but dull. Just uninteresting to me.

ROTR imo was even worse. Worst game I've played this year and I literally started skipping cutscenes. The gameplay is just horrible; the guns sound like they're shooting garbanzo beans and the game is rife with mindless collectibles and boring level design.

 

[Coolbgdog12]

TrR13 and ROTR symptomize everything wrong with the AAA games industry. It's probably the most cynical product aimed for mass consumption that I've come across. Maybe the game was made by an algorithm or on some automated factory line by robots.

This post has me laughing too much.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Traversal and exploration supposedly being superior to Uncharted's doesn't mean much of anything, since that series never set a high or even above average bar in the first place for those particular elements. Once you take that comparison out of the equation, Tomb Raider 2013's still feels utterly shallow, made worse by it being a massive regression coming off of older Tomb Raiders on top of the 2013 iteration going out of its way to present its so-called secrets to you on a silver platter, just so its lowest common denominator target demographic gets to witness everything with little in the way of actual thought processing. 2013 is just as poorly devised of an 'experience' from a mechanical point-of-view as Uncharted, perhaps even moreso given Tomb Raider's history.

 

[SRTtoZ]

This is probably TR's best trick, other games with RPG elements have conditioned gamers to associate bar-filling and open-world collectathons with actual depth and complexity.

I remembered receiving the compound bow toward the end of TR and thinking, wow, this is pointless, I was already slaying legions of dudes with makeshift twig and string bw form the minute 1.

Oh it gets even easier! There is one talent that makes you auto headshot up to 3 enemies I think just by mousing over them.

 

[brickarts295]

Gameplay was fun and the tombs were nice distractions. I also liked the metroidvania-like design. But HOT DAMN that story was lame as hell! The side characters were horrible and all I remember of Lara were her grunts and the famous line "I Hate Tombs". Don't get me started with the MP, kinda glad the did away with it for Rise.

Still excited to play Rise on PS4 though.

 

[RespectThySole]

Meh, I thought TR2013 was sort of alright but dull. Just uninteresting to me.

ROTR imo was even worse. Worst game I've played this year and I literally started skipping cutscenes. The gameplay is just horrible; the guns sound like they're shooting garbanzo beans and the game is rife with mindless collectibles and boring level design.

I agree with ROTR being worse. I couldn't even finish it. The gunplay was awful too.

 

[paperspace]

Because I feel like I'm at an insane asylum whenever someone says they prefer neo-TR over Uncharted and use damn near objectively wrong arguments to do so.

Like the classic "they really nailed the bow!" when referring to the semi-automatic chargeable rifle disguised as a bow that you see on the cover, for example.

Damn, you almost got me.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

...Right.

There were no standout set pieces in Uncharted 4.

 

[ps3ud0]

This is probably TR's best trick, other games with RPG elements have conditioned gamers to associate bar-filling and open-world collectathons with actual depth and complexity.

I remembered receiving the compound bow toward the end of TR and thinking, wow, this is pointless, I was already slaying legions of dudes with makeshift twig and string bw form the minute 1.

So true - I dont understand how people are so easily duped, TRs crafting/levelling-up is so paint by numbers.

Theres a good reason why ND didnt decide to add it to U4, its unnecessary for the game they are trying to make.

ps3ud0 8)

 

[IISANDERII]

I enjoyed Tomb Raider much more than Uncharted 2 too.

 

[Nightengale]

This is simply false. All those pseudo RPG mechanics are shallow at best and add nothing of value to the gameplay in the end.
I've always believed that people think TR 2013's gunplay is good because they get this fake sense of achievement from scoring headshots left and right on the enemy AI (or lack thereof).

Deeper is probably not the best word.

More mechanics.

 

[UpwindPoet24]

There were no standout set pieces in Uncharted 4.

What were the standout set pieces in TR?

 

[rokkerkory]

Lara is barely hotter than Drake so yeah

 

[RespectThySole]

There were no standout set pieces in Uncharted 4.

The E3 demo definitely was, but outside of that it's tough to disagree. TR doesn't have good setpieces either though.

 

[Westrunner]

(Full Disclosure: I have not finished UC4 yet.)

| have to disagree HardRojo, all that 'RPG nonsense' made collecting a lot more fun for me and really allows you to build a Lara that you want to play. Whereas with UC we're stuck with generic drake no matter what.

I really feel that for my preferences TR and RoTR are better than every Uncharted Game, and that's mainly because UC has significantly sloppier gunplay and climbing, and RoTR has far better puzzles/tombs than any uncharted game. Just my sense and feel: after playing Lara, Nathan feels like a decrepit old man.

I know many people love UC for the story, and maybe this is because I played UC1-3 late in the PS3 life cycle, but I don't get it at all. The story is pretty boilerplate generic action movie stuff. TR isn't much better, but I don't see the glorious character relationships people keep telling me they find in UC.

The big mystery for me is how Naughty Dog can be such an amazing developer (they really are, the graphics and little touches are unsurpassed in any game any where) and yet the gunplay and climbing, the two parts that are so crucial, feel so damn flat.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth I wish I enjoyed the UC series like everyone else does.

 

[Bold One]

What. Are you serious?

Very, you have no idea how many I times I got riddled with bullets because I was just distracted and in awe of my environment. I would elaborate but the game is still very new and I dont want to get into spoilers.

 

[Firmus_Anguis]

Your enjoyment in these chapters is going to be directly proportional to your ability to appreciate spectacle and how much you like character banter.

I think you summed it up. Everything else you said is your opinion, obviously. But I personally loved actually exploring

Spoiler

an entire island

for what felt like the first time in the series. Which is why I loved chapter

Spoiler

12

so much. It wasn't just about the characters, but it genuinely made me feel like the place existed, like I was the first person there in several hundred years. Like I was in a real adventure. The action is what made the other games a chore to play, especially at the end; the fourth game was a nice change of pace, at least for me. The formula was getting stale and they had to do something different - They made the right call, IMO.

Can people's gripe with the game be summarized as:

Less climbing and exploring, more action encounters = Much better game?

 

[SlipperyFishes]

What were the standout set pieces in TR?

Dunno. Only played Uncharted 1-4. Of the four games Uncharted 4 has no stand out memorable sequences worth highlighting.

 

[neojubei]

I like uncharted 4 better, better story, gameplay, graphics, cast, acting and its not a death simulator

 

[SRTtoZ]

So true - I dont understand how people are so easily duped, TRs crafting/levelling-up is so paint by numbers.

Theres a good reason why ND didnt decide to add it to U4, its unnecessary for the game they are trying to make.

ps3ud0 8)

Exactly. They could have easily brought over the crafting/upgrade system from TLOU, in fact, I'm sure it was discussed at one point, but they made the decision that it wouldn't fit in the game they were trying to make. Now in TR, especially ROTTR, they seem to just say fuck it and throw everything into the mixing bowl whether it works or not, because some people might be duped into thinking it means more is better.

Deeper is probably not the best word.

More mechanics.

Quality>Quantity