I'm fine with the ending being ambiguous. I just hope that the remaining 6 episodes aren't entirely ambiguous. I thought the first 7 episodes of this season were excellent, so something in that style the rest of the way would be preferred.
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Mad Men - Season 7, Part 2 - The End of an Era - AMC Sundays
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
-Pyromaniac-
Member
This episode wasn't that ambiguous when you break it down. Read the AVclub review. It's pretty insightful.
Even in season 7.1 where Joan was trying to literally kick Don out of the building, I think they understood each other on some level. Don never seemed to detest Joan for voting him out the way he did Jim Cutler, he knew she was simply trying to do what was best for she and Kevin.
I love Stan for that. his perspective there isn't even free love-ish, it's just basically modern and realistic. If Peggy went to Paris and didn't like Stevie so what! It'd be an experience, and one she deserves. Man should be a life coach.
Oh absolutely. I think ambiguous endings are often the best types of endings. Too many people are conditioned to be spoon fed the neatly wrapped conclusion of every little plot tendril, but life is almost never that neat. Sometimes you won't get an answer to things. Sometimes, the power of a message is doubly so when you're left to sit with some notes hanging in the air, trying desperately to grasp onto them knowing you'll never be able to.
I think Don's ending is going to be a little more ambiguous/unclear since he's the character faced with all the inner dilemmas and morality struggles, which might split the audience, however Peggy's struggle has always been fairly straightforward yet just as effective, in my opinion, so it'll be a big deal how people perceive it.
Fair concerns but the premieres of Mad Men are always the most ambiguous episodes, the ones where it's least clear exactly where everything is heading. In my experience binge watching seasons, by episodes 3 or 4 suddenly the preceding episodes are recast and everything begins to fall into place. (obviously not in a way where everything is suddenly neat, wrapped up in a bow. but in a way that's legible and comprehensible, where you can fashion a reading out of it.)
Ooh that's a good point, gotta be a meaning there.
Mad Men led me to Frank O'Hara, for which I'll forever be grateful.
Frustrated_me
Member
Got Sopranos dream sequence vibes throughout this episode..
I just wiki'd it and it seems like there are some obvious parallels one can make between it and what Mad Men is as a story.
Something tells me the scenes with the waitress will be returned to numerous times once the series ends for some clarity.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
The death symbolism has been heavy lately but Weiner always seems to downplay it. So weird.
Hah the structure for this reads completely like Mad Men. An overlay of ensemble narrative, news and historical figures, and autobiographical elements (Weiner drawing on his mental image of this era and more*). Mad Men's less fragmented than this apparently is, though.
*especially on rewatch I've loved the reading that SCP's business is a stand-in for the business of writing a television show. The war room as a writer's room, figures as producers and writers trying to make content that's both artistically ambitious and sellable, etc. The show tackles creative endeavors in such an assured way.
Leona Lewis
Banned
OH MY GOD
Now I know why Stevie (Peggy's date) was so familiar. He's the guy who played Brian on My So-Called Life!
After the Gilmore Girls and Freaks and Geeks appearances, it's become abundantly clear that casting is a fan of 90s teen dramas.
Now I know why Stevie (Peggy's date) was so familiar. He's the guy who played Brian on My So-Called Life!
After the Gilmore Girls and Freaks and Geeks appearances, it's become abundantly clear that casting is a fan of 90s teen dramas.
After watching this series from season 1-6 twice, I only started creeping up on that interpretation during the marathon today when Peggy is practicing the Burger Chef presentation and is narrating the camera shots, movements, character expressions and dialogue. It happens many times in the series but it finally dawned on me during that scene, haha.
Dion Blaster
Member
"My name is Don" is my new go-to line
shadyspace
Banned
No wonder he was too much of a wimp to send back the wrong meal!
Mind blown.
Didn't even think to connect the dots, but it seems so logical and simple now.
shadyspace
Banned
I picked up on that but I still didn't understand why she made the jump to feeling obligated to fucking Don? Was weird.
KolosLazar16
Member
.
lazybones18
Banned
Can't wait for Ken to screw them over
Theater experience was off to a rocky start (which is strange since the same theater did a fine job with the previous two season premieres). Took them forever to get something on screen; they had it on ABC and it was a few minutes past 10; person switching the channel went past AMC; took them a while to fully dim all the lights. Hopefully they get their act together for the remainder of the run
Theater experience was off to a rocky start (which is strange since the same theater did a fine job with the previous two season premieres). Took them forever to get something on screen; they had it on ABC and it was a few minutes past 10; person switching the channel went past AMC; took them a while to fully dim all the lights. Hopefully they get their act together for the remainder of the run
I dunno if I would've come up with the reading on my own but I recall discovering it while I was watching season 4 and it made The Suitcase even better.
It's funny, I worked as a server in high school so I know that the easiest outcome for everyone is for the customer to say "hey, actually I ordered X meal, not this plate of Y." But even so I'm occasionally the type of person to not say anything. If I get the completely wrong meal I'll speak up, but if I asked for some substitution or side and I don't get it I'll stay silent. Which is fucking stupid of me, yet is such an ingrained procedure.
I could see occasional flashbacks but I doubt they'll go like, full Memento and cut to entire sequences of Don's life from August '69 - April '70. Mad Men's never worked like that, it's far more likely it'll force us to sit with the ellipsis.
edit: Oh do you mean showing his far future? I doubt that too, but who knows.
Like multiple time-jumps into the past and/or future or something past 1970?
Thinking about seeing Don anytime post-70s would be jarring as fuck.
shadyspace
Banned
Sepinwall theorized in his write-up of tonight's episode that Don recognized the waitress because he had met her in his future and he was experiencing time non-linearly. It is such a weirdly far-out conclusion to jump to that it makes me think he knows something we don't.
Peggy's passport being in her office is pretty damning evidence that she's being consumed by SCDP. She's even trying to downplay sexism to Joan as part of the business. They didn't show it tonight, but remember when she got her home ceiling's remodeled? They were the same ceiling panels in every office ever.
KolosLazar16
Member
.
Anyone else reminded of Don from season 1 when Peggy was at her desk and made that Advil drink?
Also liked what the Grantland review had to say about the opening scene showing how Don is living all the phases of his life at once...the high powered exec, fur salesman, and boy who grew up in a brothel.
Also liked what the Grantland review had to say about the opening scene showing how Don is living all the phases of his life at once...the high powered exec, fur salesman, and boy who grew up in a brothel.
NYR
Member
My guess/shitty fan-fiction on the ending which likely sucks but whatever.
Flash forward to the 2000s, He is in a hotel room, just got back from Betty's funeral where his kids still won't talk to him. Don starts to undress, he is an old man, even doing that is a struggle.
He gives up half way and sits on the edge of the bed. The TV remote is right next to him. He turns on the TV and sees a bunch of "viral" garbage ads. He turns off the TV in disgust. Sitting at the edge of his bed, all alone reflecting on his life and the state of the world, where we now get some flashback scene which makes up most of the episode.
At the end of the flashback, we now see his children don't talk to him, never seen or spent any real time with his grand children, anyone who he ever respected, loved or cared about is now dead. He is tearing up, but starts to toughen up, gets up, straightens his tie, pours a glass of Canadian Club, drinks it slowly and walks out of the room.
Walks through New York in his London Fog raincoat, passes Menkins which is having an out of business sale, sees a Chevy on the road, gets to Time Square where he stares at the ads, and see an old news stand that still has an old ad for Kodak painted on its side. Stops and buys a Hersey bar. He feels something in his coat when looking for change, it is his last pack of Lucky Strikes, pulls out the last cig, lights it up.
Heads to Madsion Ave and the old time-life building, rides the elevator to the top. Quick cut to his face, finally smiles, jumps off the roof, title screen that opens the show closes it, as real life fades to the sillhoute opening.
He gives up half way and sits on the edge of the bed. The TV remote is right next to him. He turns on the TV and sees a bunch of "viral" garbage ads. He turns off the TV in disgust. Sitting at the edge of his bed, all alone reflecting on his life and the state of the world, where we now get some flashback scene which makes up most of the episode.
At the end of the flashback, we now see his children don't talk to him, never seen or spent any real time with his grand children, anyone who he ever respected, loved or cared about is now dead. He is tearing up, but starts to toughen up, gets up, straightens his tie, pours a glass of Canadian Club, drinks it slowly and walks out of the room.
Walks through New York in his London Fog raincoat, passes Menkins which is having an out of business sale, sees a Chevy on the road, gets to Time Square where he stares at the ads, and see an old news stand that still has an old ad for Kodak painted on its side. Stops and buys a Hersey bar. He feels something in his coat when looking for change, it is his last pack of Lucky Strikes, pulls out the last cig, lights it up.
Heads to Madsion Ave and the old time-life building, rides the elevator to the top. Quick cut to his face, finally smiles, jumps off the roof, title screen that opens the show closes it, as real life fades to the sillhoute opening.
That's kind of scary, yet fascinating.
I mean, there are definitely times when the series has gone to some strange, cosmic places (Bert's musical coming to mind immediately).
There's definitely something to say about "time" as a theme in Mad Men that goes way deeper than just the linear "it's about the 60s as a time and place and each season advances it forward a little bit". I mean, I would never call Mad Men a plot-focused show because of it's structure and focus. It's pretty much entirely character driven, but one can say the plot of it being just, "time" or characters experiencing time.
Cornballer
Member
Brief content round up:
- Onion A|V Club review
- Sepinwall's review
- Matt Zoller Seitz
- Slate's continuing coverage
- Sam Adams for Rolling Stone
- Molly Lambert for Grantland
- Deadline Interview: Mad Men Director On Midseason Premiere
- The Atlantic panel discussion
- IndieWire
Thanks to those of you taking the time to post a few reviews already. Doesn't look like the videos are up in AMC's youtube account yet, but someone can link to them overnight (or I'll get to them tomorrow.)
- Onion A|V Club review
- Sepinwall's review
- Matt Zoller Seitz
- Slate's continuing coverage
- Sam Adams for Rolling Stone
- Molly Lambert for Grantland
- Deadline Interview: Mad Men Director On Midseason Premiere
- The Atlantic panel discussion
- IndieWire
Thanks to those of you taking the time to post a few reviews already. Doesn't look like the videos are up in AMC's youtube account yet, but someone can link to them overnight (or I'll get to them tomorrow.)
Third time's a charm! It's starting again now!
Cindy and the chinchilla coat. Hnggg.
a secret-boss
Banned
Is the restaurant scene Don's dreams? It seemed surreal
The topaz marketing with Joan was painful watching those guys say it so casually. The time we are on now
The topaz marketing with Joan was painful watching those guys say it so casually. The time we are on now
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This explains my wife's IMMEDIATE negative reaction to seeing him onscreen. She couldn't put a finger on why it was - we settled on him occupying a sort of a young Pete kind of vibe - and then I showed her that picture, and it all made sense.
Mr. Saturn
Member
I like it, but the last part with Don killing himself I just don't see it happening. I mean it seems so silly, just because the intro is the falling silhouette man, that means the show will end that way too? I've always interpreted the intro with the falling to be about loss of control and navigating life than suicide. Now just watch me end up being completely wrong lol.
brianjones
Member
Mr. Saturn
Member
It won't, I'm confident that won't happen. I would be absolutely flabbergasted if it did.
Mr. Saturn
Member
Yeah no offense but this is just too clean and on the nose and fan-fiction-y. it's not far off from comedy writer Jason Woliner's joke ending:
lol holy shit, I've never seen that before. Yeah, I think that does a good job of summing up why that ending might not work.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I thought Ken was finally beat, but he survived and came out on the other end even better. He has been one of my favorite characters since way early on, so I'm glad he can get some revenge on Pete and Roger for screwing him.
I was worried reviewers speculating that time is fractured had inadvertently jointly spoiled the show but Sepinwall's review clarifies that no further advance eps were sent out. Hopefully multiple critics simply had the same crazy idea--I can see Don mistaking when the Rachel dream happened, but I can't see him meeting Diana in the future and having that loop back on the present or anything.
Disagree! This episode showed him being beat, i think. Instead of taking a healthy severance package and writing when he had a perfectly good opportunity, professionally and personally, he jumped in with Dow just to get a small bit of petty revenge. On people who had mostly been kind to him, no less. In 1980 Ken Cosgrove will still be frustrated and unhappy because of what he decided in this episode.