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[God's Hand]

screw you

I'm not directing that towards you. For all I know, you could be the best artist on the team being held back by retarded deadlines or some other nonsense. I guess we'll have to wait 5 years for you guys to animate the players properly?

 

[Borys]

Just saw the commercial. That was probably the stupidest things I've ever seen. I can see there's some tremendous amount of detail going on, what with the crowd being fully 3D and the cool smoke effects, but the players look terrible and the animation is laughable. If this is next-gen, what a waste. EA needs to hire new artists and animators, because this is pretty pathetic. I mean, honestly... does anyone think the animation looked good?

I know next-gen can look way better than this. It just takes talent.

Oh man, now you did it, nathken's EA artist you know?

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

gods hand a couple things:

1. have you read above in the thread? this is months old

2. even if this WERE the final product, can you name a better looking football game? oh you dont play football games? what a surprise that you show up in a football gaming thread


EA probably could have guessed that this commercial would just provide fodder for anti-EA/madden people, but oh well. my friend who called me after the niners drafted smith (and isn't a gamer) said he was very impressed w/ it. so, to the non-cynical/average everyday gamer that looked unbelieveable

EA will deliver, you'll see

 

[nathkenn]

I'm not directing that towards you. For all I know, you could be the best artist on the team being held back by retarded deadlines or some other nonsense. I guess we'll have to wait 5 years for you guys to animate the players properly?

Well if you're aware of that why make a post demeaning peoples work.

but actually i didnt work on anything in the commercial i think, but dont slam my friends man. those guys rocks

 

[Odnetnin]

What I dont understand is how people can expect next gen to like anything other than CG I mean even the best CG doesnt look real. Realtime stuff isnt going to surpass it anytime soon just because of the huge differences between doing games and movies

the best cg in movie does look real. I think you should watch something other than Stuart Little cause suspension of belief @ talking mouse makes it all a bit hard to take.

 

[Rob]

It was KNOWN that this was CG.

Why show CG?

It was KNOWN that this was old.

Why show old CG??

It was KNOWN that it was an earlier visual target WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN SURPASSED.

Forgive me if I don't believe this bs. Of course theyr'e going to say that. Why wouldn't they? You think EA's going to say "well, we're really TRYING to make it look that good but it's doubtful we'll reach that level." Remember the robot demos on Xbox? Remember the Final Fantasy demos on PS2? There's REASONS why gamers are apathetic. We've been fooled before.

What? Do you think animators come into work and eat bananas all day? You think a CG visual target video has all the game animations sitting right there at your finger tips?? They only have what... 5~6 months until it goes gold?

I'm saying there was no point to this stupid commercial. Yeah, I'm sure Johnny Dumbass is sitting at home thinking "oh kewl!!" But for me, the real gamer, it's insulting.

 

[Project Midway]

I thought it looked very good, like 100x better than current gen madden. You people are so hard to please,heh.

 

[Barnimal]

tecmo would own ea with temco bowl next gen

 

[DCX]

I must say, VC has some good artists and i loved the look of thier games...that said i have faith...

DCX

 

[God's Hand]

Okay, so criticism is a good thing if you're an artist, right nathken? The models look decent, but they look lifeless at the same time. I can't quite put my finger on it, but they seem like robots.

Plus this is GAF, you can't expect everyone to splooge in your face no matter what. And let's not forget you guys have huge expectations since you're the only ones allowed to release NFL titles. You're in the spotlight, whether you like it or not. Can't please everyone. That's why it's a shame there's only one NFL title from now on.

 

[nathkenn]

the best cg in movie does look real. I think you should watch something other than Stuart Little cause suspension of belief @ talking mouse makes it all a bit hard to take.

dude i have a degree in animation i've seen everything and it does not look real. It does look very close on occassion but its going to be a long time before we get reality

 

[impirius]

nathkenn, I thought you modeled stadiums? Sorry if that's wrong..

I don't think anyone in this thread is knocking you personally, in any case. Every hype train derails at one point or another; it's the circle of life

 

[sly]

EA will deliver, you'll see

They will. They must(SSX 4 has to be great )

 

[nitewulf]

wow, you guys are nuts if you didnt think that was amazing. animation is stiff, but animation is also probably the hardest thing and needs the most fine tuning.
*goes back and drools at the polygonal detail and lighting*
edit: if you look closely, you'll see that the jersey's do stretch and deform.

 

[dskillzhtown]

LOL at this thread. 90% of the people griping already had their "OH THIS SUCKS" posts ready to go before the commercial even aired. It is just a "preview", not meant to be the final product, just a glimpse of what the game will be. I think it did that job. It got my hyped for the next gen Maddens. We finally go to see the stadiums, the cool intros, play selection screens, looks good to me. Though...I suspect that the gameplay will look better, but it will remain un-changed for the most part. I mean, the same "Madden" cam, and some bad ass replays, not that there is anything wrong with that.

As far as EA's Marketing...I don't think it is that bad. I mean 85% of the people watching the draft had no idea it was coming up and are now foaming at the mouth wondering "WTF is Madden Next Gen?" I got 4 calls from people asking me wtf it was as soon as it aired. They were all impressed, so mission accomplished with most gamers.

 

[Kleegamefan]

nathkenn, I just want to say I appreciate your posts here.....I know it must be hard to be busting your A$$ to make this game and to hear are the negative vibes here....

Keep in mind EA is a target right now (I am still very angry at them too) so that is, of course, going to encourage some bad feelings towards EA....

Also, this is GAF and it is pretty rare to see a majority of posters sing praises of anything.....we love to tear things down here (I am guilty of this as well) but I hope you can develop a thick skin over time and try to take the high road whenever you can..

You will need it at this place

 

[DCX]

Well if you're aware of that why make a post demeaning peoples work.

but actually i didnt work on anything in the commercial i think, but dont slam my friends man. those guys rocks

What do you work on...unless it's things u can't speak on becuase if you haven't worked on anything in that ad which means to me textures, stadiums or other i'm thinking you are doing Franchise stuff...mini camp or something other than on field stuff...unless i'm wrong, which wouldn't be a surprise.

DCX

 

[nathkenn]

Okay, so criticism is a good thing if you're an artist, right nathken? The models look decent, but they look lifeless at the same time. I can't quite put my finger on it, but they seem like robots.

Plus this is GAF, you can't expect everyone to splooge in your face no matter what. And let's not forget you guys have huge expectations since you're the only ones allowed to release NFL titles. You're in the spotlight, whether you like it or not. Can't please everyone. That's why it's a shame there's only one NFL title from now on.

theres a difference between criticism and calling people no talents

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Looks really good but some of the animations needs more work.


edit: I loved the flyby to and above the stadium with all the fireworks going off, self shadowing looks good, and the GRASS looks fantastic.

Looks good overall, looking forward to more media updates for this game.

 

[Borys]

dude i have a degree in animation i've seen everything and it does not look real. It does look very close on occassion but its going to be a long time before we get reality

nathkenn, here's a hint: try to spell ODNETNIN backwards.

You're 100% right, there's no "real-life-like" CG...yet.

 

[DCX]

As far as EA's Marketing...I don't think it is that bad. I mean 85% of the people watching the draft had no idea it was coming up and are now foaming at the mouth wondering "WTF is Madden Next Gen?" I got 4 calls from people asking me wtf it was as soon as it aired. They were all impressed, so mission accomplished with most gamers.

Exactly my point, impress the "drones" now and impress the hardcore later.

DCX

 

[nathkenn]

What do you work on...unless it's things u can't speak on becuase if you haven't worked on anything in that ad which means to me textures, stadiums or other i'm thinking you are doing Franchise stuff...mini camp or something other than on field stuff...unless i'm wrong, which wouldn't be a surprise.

DCX

I'm a stadium artist and i didnt work on that stadium

 

[pxleyes]

They will. They must(SSX 4 has to be great )

Different production studios.

 

[DCX]

nathken, here's a hint: try to spell ODNETNIN backwards.

You're 100% right, there's no "real-life-like" CG...yet.

To be honest, i doubt there will ever be....i mean Jurassic park still holds up...it's just art and how it's used...some of the new CG stuff sucks.

DCX

 

[nathkenn]

nathkenn, I just want to say I appreciate your posts here.....I know it must be hard to be busting your A$$ to make this game and to hear are the negative vibes here....

Keep in mind EA is a target right now (I am still very angry at them too) so that is, of course, going to encourage some bad feelings towards EA....

Also, this is GAF and it is pretty rare to see a majority of posters sing praises of anything.....we love to tear things down here (I am guilty of this as well) but I hope you can develop a thick skin over time and try to take the high road whenever you can..

You will need it at this place

heh nah it's cool. all in good fun

 

[dskillzhtown]

theres a difference between criticism and calling people no talents

Dude, don't sweat it. There are people in GAF who live to complain about everything. IF you stay around, you will get used to filtering out those people from people who actually matter.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

* watched ad.. you know how some old people lose jaw control when they're well.. older... That coach sequence = :lol. Not impressed. Gimme DMC4 or something more fantasy(tic)

I don't even know what you're talking about, you can't even see his jaw :| .

The only things I really saw wrong with the commercial (after watching it in slow motion) was the T.O. tackle and the running animations. otherwise, it's not that bad. I don't know how I can get to the levels of nitpicking you guys are at, because just looking over the commercial in regular motion, I barely even noticed anything of the things you guys were bitching about. I wouldn't be suprised if you guys began to bitch about how the ref lowered his hand.

 

[DCX]

I'm a stadium artist and i didnt work on that stadium

Sweet. Man you guys must look at tons of photos and stuff...i have always wanted to know if you don't have a license for a stadium ( for example no license for the Raymond James Stadium ) how much can you still do with the stadium without legally getting in trouble? For the longest time games didn't use MSG for basketball games and i hated that and the arenas didn't look like MSG so i just have always wanted to know.

DCX

 

[tsp_gatmog]

http://s13.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1RDARAVR8Z8Z112WRD47EZGIDU

alt. link; better quality, faster speed

 

[Duck of Death]

Dude, don't sweat it. There are people in GAF who live to complain about everything. IF you stay around, you will get used to filtering out those people from people who actually matter.

Yep. NEVER FORGET:

 

[nathkenn]

Sweet. Man you guys must look at tons of photos and stuff...i have always wanted to know if you don't have a license for a stadium ( for example no license for the Raymond James Stadium ) how much can you still do with the stadium without legally getting in trouble? For the longest time games didn't use MSG for basketball games and i hated that and the arenas didn't look like MSG so i just have always wanted to know.

DCX

.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Yep. NEVER FORGET:

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Blimblim]

heh nah it's cool. all in good fun

Btw did you see this Nike ad.? It looks quite a bit like the next gen teaser!

 

[nathkenn]

Btw did you see this Nike ad.? It looks quite a bit like the next gen teaser!

yeah I think obviously that was the inspiration.

 

[Blimblim]

yeah I think obviously that was the inspiration.

Ok. I'm not from the US so I had never seen this ad before

 

[sprsk]

yeah I think obviously that was the inspiration.

would i be right in saying mocap like that is impossible on next gen systems.

 

[Dante]

Well MOST of the complaints are geared towards the animation, which was lacking, and IMO is why this doesn't have near the punch of the NIKE commercial. However perhaps that is just placeholder (rushed) animation. That being said the whole purpose of the commercial was to HYPE how wonderful next gen madden will look, so I think some of the harsh criticisms are valid. I am a grad student in animation, been studying animation for 5 years now, however motion cap is not something I know much about, and I don't think you have to study animation to know what looks and feels right, and a lot of the animation in the teaser just did not "feel" right, the graphics however were outstanding.

 

[DCX]

We even got some badass 5000 pixel satellite photos =D

As far as stuff without a license it's really a pain because you have to model then send it to legal and wrangle with what has to be changed etc. I cant mention specific legal stuff I'm sure that would be bad news

Nice...i could imagine how much of a pain that would be...would be great if they had a GAF team Which a kickass stadium desing from Nathkenn Throw in an Easter Egg, GAF style maybe a banner shouting us out!

DCX

 

[Rob]

nathkenn, I just want to say I appreciate your posts here.....I know it must be hard to be busting your A$$ to make this game and to hear are the negative vibes here....

Klee, I'm not bashing nathkenn personally. I can appreciate the hard work he does and I realize that he's an animator and not directly affiliated with the politics of EA. I have nothing personal against nathkenn.

The negative vibes that you mention are merely how we as gamers feel. Personally I am frustrated with EA for

1.) Milking the same game engine with minimal improvements for 5 years on current systems.

2.) Eliminating the competition by NOT building a superior product, but by buying liscense exclusivity. (legal, but slimy).

3.) Showing a ridiculous commercial that is not AT ALL representative of what we'll be playing next generation.

It just further drives the wedge between myself and EA as a company. All I can say is that the Madden shown at E3 had better damn well be spectacular. Now that there is no other choice for an NFL liscense game, it's EA's job to make sure gamers don't want to even think about another choice.

 

[nathkenn]

would i be right in saying mocap like that is impossible on next gen systems.

It's hard to say but doing mocap for a movie clip with hardware that pretty much has unlimited power and doing it for a game that will have blending between animations and memory issues etc etc is entirely different.

 

[DopeyFish]

would i be right in saying mocap like that is impossible on next gen systems.

it's not impossible, but is it worth it?

There's a point to which games are real... transition animations, looped running animation...

If it came to the point where you held every animation to the aspect of real life it wouldn't control properly from a gamer point of view.

You'd have to wait for one guy to land on his feet and take a few hops and then he can turn.

Yes it's pretty unreal how games are but if you base the game completely on reality it wouldn't be that fun because of the problems that would arise.

But they can do their best to mimic real life as much as possible.

 

[Odnetnin]

nathkenn, here's a hint: try to spell ODNETNIN backwards.

You're 100% right, there's no "real-life-like" CG...yet.

am I trolling a console maker here? No. Leave Nintendo out of it, Cuntface.

There is no human-life-like CG yet, I doubt that'd ever happen because of the amount of animation you'd need to get lifelike; then there that valley effect. That said, this ad is rather unimpressive all up. Watching it doesn't inspire awe or the sense that we're watching something truly next gen; especially the knowledge that we have that its CG.

Nathkenn can defend this marketing move all he wants but til we see sweet ass animation/final, he's just making a lot of fuss about deserved backlash. We're not targeting you. We're talking about EA, this move and the ad.

 

[pestul]

I can't watch this at work.. so can I ask something? Does it look better or worse than ATI's realtime demonstration called 'Ruby' used in the R420 launch?

 

[nathkenn]

am I trolling a console maker here? No. Leave Nintendo out of it, Cuntface.

There is no human-life-like CG yet, I doubt that'd ever happen because of the amount of animation you'd need to get lifelike; then there that valley effect. That said, this ad is rather unimpressive all up. Watching it doesn't inspire awe or the sense that we're watching something truly next gen; especially the knowledge that we have that its CG.

Nathkenn can defend this marketing move all he wants but til we see sweet ass animation/final, he's just making a lot of fuss about deserved backlash. We're not targeting you. We're talking about EA, this move and the ad.

I'm not defending it. I wish they wouldnt have shown it really.

 

[Ferrarisimo]

One thing I found intresting is the fact that this exact shot:

Is in the ad (its animated, too)

Which means that parts of this ad is very very old.....that pic was released last November....so it is possible this "ad" is actually that rumored in-house concept video EA shows at project meetings....

True. Though the clip that was shown last year is a little different and longer. Originally, after the tackle, the Giant on top gives the Eagle on the bottom a good jab with his forearm and holds his head down in the grass.

 

[Odnetnin]

It's hard to say but doing mocap for a movie clip with hardware that pretty much has unlimited power and doing it for a game that will have blending between animations and memory issues etc etc is entirely different.

a lot of japanese dev houses have been using mocap in their games and its implementation is stellar. what does mocap have to do with memory issues? LMAO You have a degree in animation; then you'd know that mocap is processed. You can't use it straight out of the vicon.

 

[hgplayer1]

the thing Im most disappointed in is that we still dont know really what next gen Madden will look like. with all the disclaimers about what it is, it seems EA just wanted to do something for the draft and since next gen IS relatively close, they chose to give people a taste of what it might be like. I hope it turns out to look or move nothing like what was shown. I would much rather have seen actual development shots no matter how bad they may look at this point. anyway this commercial seemed to be pretty pointless except to get all the Maddenites stirred up a bit early.

 

[sly]

am I trolling a console maker here? No. Leave Nintendo out of it, Cuntface.

:lol

There is no human-life-like CG yet, I doubt that'd ever happen because of the amount of animation you'd need to get lifelike; then there that valley effect. That said, this ad is rather unimpressive all up. Watching it doesn't inspire awe or the sense that we're watching something truly next gen; especially the knowledge that we have that its CG.

Nathkenn can defend this marketing move all he wants but til we see sweet ass animation/final, he's just making a lot of fuss about deserved backlash. We're not targeting you. We're talking about EA, this move and the ad.

Totally agree with your post. The animations are just no good.

 

[nathkenn]

a lot of japanese dev houses have been using mocap in their games and its implementation is stellar. what does mocap have to do with memory issues? LMAO You have a degree in animation; then you'd know that mocap is processed. You can't use it straight out of the vicon.

because memory etc limits skeletons you can create and effects the quality of your mocap and the final animation it also removes frames from the original mocap

 

[acidviper]

That was awful. It looked like one of those stupid pre-game show clipfests. Why don't they show the game play action, not what they can do with the engine.