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[params7]

This is going to keep on happening.

 

[Lamneth]

He probably was no angel though.

Why? Because he ran a stop sign?

 

[Puppet Shadow]

This is going to keep on happening.

Ya, Fox News is going to have to come up with some new kind of Isolated Incident graphic.

 

[Beartruck]

I don't know if it was your intent or otherwise, but what you did here in your first post is victim blaming.

Just because you add a disclaimer at the end that says you don't feel his "mistakes" (many of which were unsubstantiated) warranted him being beaten, the first part of your post and the second about "common sense" don't paint you as someone who's really interested in advocating on behalf of the victim.

Fair enough. Victim blaming was not my intent, although I could see how it was misconstrued that way. Also, full disclosure, part of that confusion is due to the fact that the first time I read the story I misread it as the guy claiming he bit the cop, as opposed to the cops claiming it, which changes my opinion of the cop from asshole to lying asshole, which means who knows what else the cops lied about (probably everything).

 

[DanteGhost]

Honestly, after watching this video and being a minority here in America I'm going to be fucking scared if a cop stops me in the future.

And I already have three shitty things that occurred to me, probably due to my ethnicity:

- Was attacked by bouncers once out of nowhere. Probably by mistake (hopefully). Five of them, all white. I still have a scar on my arm. Luckily an uncle interfered. Since I was really young at the time I was dumb enough to not seek legal action.
- Punched at bar out of nowhere by white dude. Dude was removed from place, and I got all my drinks for free that day. But again I made the huge mistake to not calling the cops. I didn't have a drop of alcohol when the incident occurred, while the other individual was completely wasted.
- Finally I was the designated driver one night, and I was waiting for my friend outside a club. Cops arrive out of nowhere looking for someone. They see me waiting in the car and yell to the bouncer "Is that him", of course the bouncer said no. It was fucking scary.

Needless to say I don't go out anymore, and I really try to drive with my wife as a passenger (she's white) all the time if it is really late. Worst part of all of this I'm a college graduate and the last thing I look is dangerous.

 

[Lamneth]

Honestly, after watching this video and being a minority here in America I'm going to be fucking scared if a cop stops me in the future.

And I already have three shitty things that occurred to me, probably due to my ethnicity:

- Was attacked by bouncers once out of nowhere. Probably by mistake (hopefully). Five of them, all white. I still have a scar on my arm. Luckily an uncle interfered. Since I was really young at the time I was dumb enough to not seek legal action.
- Punched at bar out of nowhere by white dude. Dude was removed from place, and I got all my drinks for free that day. But again I made the huge mistake to not call the cops. I didn't have a drop of alcohol when the incident occurred, while the other individual was completely wasted.
- Finally I was the designated driver one night, and I was waiting for my friend outside club. Cops arrive out of nowhere looking for someone. They see me waiting in the car and yell to the bouncer "Is that him", of course the bouncer said no. It was fucking scary.

Needless to say I don't go out anymore, and I really try to drive with my wife as a passenger (she's white) all the time if it is really late. Worst part on all of this I'm a college graduate and the last thing I look like is dangerous.

Where do you live? Sounds like a shitty area.

 

[DanteGhost]

Where do you live? Sounds like a shitty area.

Pennsylvania, college town near two big cities. White country. Me and my wife are already trying to move out of this area as soon as we can. If my skin color was a few shades whiter it would be the perfect place to live.

 

[crisdecuba]

Good lord they beat the shit outta that man.

The police are the scariest gang in the streets right now.

Hyperbole.

He probably was no angel though.

Baseless comment is baseless... edit: oh it was a joke, sorry!

Unbelievable.

I don't even know why I'm surprised anymore.

Better to be surprised than to be lulled into apathetic acceptance.

Unironically so thankful we have technology to help expose this stuff.

Agreed. They should be fined for every instance where they fail to turn on the mic, though.

Sue the fuck out of them.

I gotta admit, I would probably have this in the back of my mind as my head was being unjustly bashed... "Please let there be video..."

The question is, will it matter?

Every instance helps to convince people that the true narrative here is "There is a dire issue with police abuse of power" and *not* "A few bad apples here and there."

Was he told to get out of the car? That's a big no no, especially when driving while black.

Personally I'm not sure how someone is supposed to just know that that's what you do, but okay. I guess it's debatable how much this is common knowledge.

I can't even wrap my head around the fact that this is common place for fucking police officers. As a white dude from Canada I had no idea it was this bad, which I realize is a gigantic part of the problem, but this last year or so has really opened my eyes. It's like a fascist state with a secret police except much sneakier because ostensibly they're "out in the open."

Canada is not exempt from this kind of stuff (each link goes to the individual story and the Cracked article at the end summarizes them together):
The Saskatoon Freezing Deaths (aka "Starlight Tours")
The Pro Football Player Forced to Retire After Being Beaten by Police and Framed for Cocaine Possession
The Niagara Regional Police Service Steroid Scandal
That Time Terrace Police Cranked Out Two of the Most Heinous Brutality Videos Ever in Less Than a Week (article for video 1 | video 2)
The Teen Who Died After Being Shot Nine Times (and Tasered) on a Toronto Streetcar
-
Cracked article

Irrelevant. I hope he gets rich out of this and gets the last laugh.

I hope he gets some sound financial investment advice if there's a payday on this. One of the worst things is the lottery-type situation where most often the money is gone in 3 years.

It will over time. More and more unrest will eventually cause more politicians to speak out against it. It's really not a matter of if but when.

Or rather, it will cause more people to speak out against it, which puts pressure on their elected officials.

Lucky to be alive.

Putting someone in a choke hold and expecting them to go along with it sounds unreasonable.

Yeah, from the man's perspective, he was dragged out and immediately put into a choke hold. My natural reaction would be to fight it.

Violent Inkster arrest: Did officer plant evidence?

The officer involved was fired by the Detroit PD for falsifying police reports, and accused of planting evidence in 2003.

You messed up this time, officer.

My money is on 'no' and the cops will be punished with a brief paid suspension...

Sigh... true, this is a possible outcome... :-(

Worse than Rodney King IMO.

What? No. Have you not seen the Rodney King video recently??

Avoid police at all costs if you're a black man in the US. I can't wait until one of the resident cops here tries to justify this like one did in the Indian man thread.

Probably already happened by now. Best to point out the illogical aspects of the argument and the specific points of likely bias so that it's marginalized and ignored.

This is fucking nuts. How do they think they can keep getting away with it? Just imagine how fucking bad things were when the police were completely evangelized, the type of shit they were getting away with. Christ.

YES. This exactly! It's the tip of the iceberg.

If the police are just another lawless, armed gang, nobody is safe.

I don't think I would call it that just yet (which is not to say there isn't a serious, serious abuse of power issue to address).

My gf is white and is given friendly warnings all the time for speeding. I have to fight off an anxiety attack whenever i'm pulled over. I've had guns pulled on me multiple times by cops. Once because a vial I had of horse medicine (fam owns a ranch) that "looked like a controlled substance" in the cupholder. Another time because he freaked out when I was going for my wallet. Shit is crazy.

I think people don't understand this point right here - a person's experience with police as an ethnic minority is vastly different. I was thinking back to an experience I had in high school. Me and my friends were pulled over and asked to step out of the vehicle. I stepped out with my hands in my jacket and immediately I had angry police yelling at me to take my hands out of my pockets slowly. Granted, I can see this from his POV and I think he did the right thing - he made it clear what I needed to do and didn't have a gun pointed at my head. I complied, and everything was fine. Now of course, the specifics of why we were pulled over could have some racial bias in it, but my point is that I have a tension or anxiety when interacting with the police that others don't have to have.

Settlements of taxpayer dollars do not change the fact that police brutality against minorities is a regular occurance without consequence.

I'm not saying you're wrong. He should sue and get paid, and retire from the job he'd been working for 30+ years. But as a country, we need to be doing something differently so that this filth who continues to perpetuate this bullshit is held accountable.

Of course, since the above paragraph is essentially what amounts to wish fulfilment fantasy, I might as well go all out and talk about other non-realistic things I would like, such as 100 million dollars and immortality.

I listened to a This American Life podcast recently where they talked about the changes instituted in the Las Vegas PD and the successes they've had there. In addition to those things, I think independent review of all police shootings and body cams as the standard will also help.

No audio. No bite mark.

How fucking convenient.

Yeah, I rolled my eyes, figuratively speaking, when I heard those bits.

Fire and prosecute all of the officers.

Hrmms... I don't think that's exactly right... (though I agree with the general sentiment and the emotions motivating that response).

Like 8 cops are out there for 1 guy.

There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, though. It's what they do once there that's the issue.

I miss being a kid and not being extremely paranoid about being around cops, scared I might run into one on a bad day or "fit the description" and get beaten up(this almost did happen to me) or worse.

Yup. And while we surely agree that it's "not all cops," the reality is that bias, whether conscious or unconscious, and racism exist, and we don't have adequate training and systems of accountability to check those two things, respectively.

Was he supposed to get out of his car and open the door?

No, he wasn't. Though again, this doesn't justify the officers' behavior.
-------
And now I've fulfilled my dream of one day replying to all the posts on the first page of a thread (at least the ones that triggered a response).

To be honest... it wasn't that fulfilling...

 

[lrt75914]

 

[Patrol]

I have all the respect in the world for officers who put their lives at risk or die in the line of duty. I still don't give two shits about police being scared for their life if that's their justification for using escalating force in situations that don't clearly call for it. Those men and women should not be policemen. Police safety comes second to public safety, always. Any police officer not willing to die in the line of duty for the sake of public safety needs to find a new line of work. I sympathize with the stress and fear and have so much respect for people who can handle it because God knows I couldn't. Those men and women are true heroes, and justifying unnecessary police violence only besmirches the fine officers who work to protect the people.

Yes, and thank you.

I would like to say this is a far better article with a better, unedited video of the incident in question.

Look at the tape. Aside from opening the door, at what point did he do anything that warranted the behavior of the officers? The position that the choking officer puts him in even makes it more difficult for him to put his hands behind his back.

I notice you didn't respond to the second part of that quote. Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, believe what the officers are saying?

No drugs in his system, no criminal record, no weapon, an officer previously investigated for planting evidence and making false statements. Sure, he was acquitted, but given how herculean a task it is for officers to even get indicted, forgive me if I don't assume he's innocent. Does this even sound credible?

I would like to see what was combative about his behavior besides fending for his life. If I believed I might be choked to death I would probably behave exactly as this man does.

That isn't necessary...

Damn, video is blocked by the work filter.

This is the part in which I do not like, which is highlighted by the video skipping too which, along with the video, makes the context hard to fully see. There is the totality of the circumstances that the officers are working with here; they're dealing with an individual who failed to pull over, attempts to get out of the vehicle upon finally pulling over, and then concealing hands/or refusing to show one of his hands. Three red flags that scream danger in the ears of a LEO.

Then, as the firearm was drawn, the suspect refused verbal commands and then, allegedly, screams "I'll kill you" or something to that effect. I'm assuming at this point they see both hands and recognize no threat on immediately accessible weapons, but they still decide to pull him out of the vehicle using force in order to detain the subject (for their safety) to better search him for any weapons as a precautionary measure due to the previous red flags. Again, my assumptions here.

Refusing to get out of the vehicle and then passively resisting caused him to get thrown to the ground where both officers attempted to gain control of him. He continues to passively resist as you can see how tense his arms are; at that point one of the officers grabs him by the head/neck and is laying on him in an effort to gain control of him getting back to his feet. It's hard to tell due to the video being broken up in pieces, but I can also see the individual's chin in the officer's interior elbow which IS NOT characteristic of a "choke-hold" where the esophagus is blocked.

Finding the drugs under the seat helps possibly explains the initial delay, as folks will always try to delay that slight amount of time to hide things. Ridiculous, yes, as we can see for the most part the scurrying about in the car. Teens trying to hide alcohol always gets a kick out of me. More of an annoyance, then anything.

Do I believe what they're saying? I don't think it's unreasonable. Do you know how many times people have threatened to kill me? Hell, I've been accused of rape during the booking process inside the jail... during booking process... inside the damn jail. Some people blow smoke just to cause a scene, or any attempt to ruffle feathers. I don't think it's unreasonable, but it sure as hell hurts the case when there's no audio. It's not hard to turn on the mic, and the fact that all six officers dropped the ball here? Disappointing.

When you conduct yourself in a manner that escalates any encounter straight to a life and death struggle, with very narrow wiggle room in your training involving use of force, while restricting the ability of the second party to respond to your orders and negligently endanger the lives of the people you purport to serve. You are not seeking compliance. You're seeking dominance. Don't hide behind semantics here. You seek no compliance.

Based on my training and experience, I will have to disagree on the inability to respond. Granted, I will go out of my way to use verbal judo to talk guys and gals into handcuffs; but it doesn't always work, sadly. I am not the biggest officer around, so it's rather necessary when I'm talking to a dude twice my size who is upset.

Oh please. This post alone shows everything wrong with your thought processes, in more ways than one.

Okay.

 

[Patrol]

Patrol, you never answered me, man. How does your department feel about punching a man in the head double digit times?

What's the context/scenario here?

 

[Aselith]

What's the context/scenario here?

Feel free to think of any scenario where that would be allowable. When would they say that is ok?

 

[Patrol]

Feel free to think of any scenario where that would be allowable. When would they say that is ok?

Too broad. The best answer I can give you is that it's not against policy if the force used is reasonable/proportionate to the resistance being showcased.

 

[GalacticAE]

Too broad. The best answer I can give you is that it's not against policy if the force used is reasonable/proportionate to the resistance being showcased.

youre like robocop justifying extreme violence

 

[Aselith]

Too broad. The best answer I can give you is that it's not against policy if the force used is reasonable/proportionate to the resistance being showcased.

What level of resistance would make you as an officer feel that is ok? And moreover what would be your aim in punching a person in the head repeatedly? Like what is the subdual tactic in that? Because your aim as a LEO is to subdue the suspect not injure him, correct?

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

So fucked up.

 

[Jackson]

Lol He bit me! Through my thick leather gloves and long sleeve jacket... after I had him a chokehold! He's resisting his handcuffs! Because I started punching him in the face... He said "I'll kill you!" And then did nothing violent or resisted or has a record or was on something or had a weapon or was recorded.

I truly and sincerely hope that officer is prosecuted and at he bare minimum fired. Nah for real though, he should go to jail.

If you're black don't open your car door though, crazy cops might shoot you.

 

[Patrol]

What level of resistance would make you as an officer feel that is ok?

Oh, the kind where I am being physically assaulted and can not reasonably use other means of force (taser, OC, ASP).

 

[Jackson]

Oh, the kind where I am being physically assaulted and can not reasonably use other means of force (taser, OC, ASP).

So unlike the kind in the video?

Btw I'm mostly in agreement with you. It's not all cops. It's just psychotic cops that are the problem. The problem is they are protected behind the good ones so the whole system doesn't crumble. I get it. Still in today's world of cell phones and youtube we have no choice but to stop protecting the bad apples.

 

[Aselith]

Oh, the kind where I am being physically assaulted and can not reasonably use other means of force (taser, OC, ASP).

And you partner would also have to be unable to help you, yes? Because obviously if he could help you then you wouldn't need that level of violence to subdue the perp.

So he'd basically have to be on top of you where you couldn't do any other form of subdual and you'd have to be solo.

 

[Any Questions]

He probably was no angel though.

What kind of idiot post is this. Did you read the article? It says no history. No evidence by police of alleged bite marks. No audio from police. This guy is an ordinary bloke going about his business. Gets funked over for being a black man by police. End of debate.

A different debate is how messed up American society is with this them and us attitude perpetrated by both side of the divide. Ie the black and white debate.

Police should be unjudgemental until proven guilty and then should act with discipline and responsibilities. Not bully boy gang beatings or shootings in self defense against defenceless folks.

I Remember that poor Indian bloke paralysed by some cop for walking the street recently. Horrendous.

 

[Jak140]

This is going to keep on happening.

The problem is that police brutality is something that primarily affects poor and marginalized people. This does also include the homeless, the mentally ill, and poor whites, but because minorities are historically overrepresented among the impoverished it makes it easier for them to be stereotyped and targeted by government agencies without fear of reprisal from more powerful political interests and the general public. This power imbalance was put on display recently when a former DEA agent went public with the fact that they were explicitly instructed not to target rich white areas in order to not risk losing their funding.

It saddens me to see this same story play out again and again. Body cameras are a good start, but clearly aren't a magic bullet solution (particularly when we keep seeing some officers conveniently forgetting to turn video or mics on as in this case). I think some departments are starting to do outreach with the community which creates dialogue between the police and the public and allows the groups to humanize each other to a better degree, but just waiting for better run departments to do this while more corrupt ones go about business as usual isn't a solution either.

Big picture, the case can be made that it is far better to properly fund education and job programs in poor neighborhoods than leave people with few options outside of crime and resulting in far more money being spent on filling overflowing prisons, but that would require a sea change in the current political landscape and does little to help the innocent people currently suffering from police discrimination. As much as I think the media coverage on this issue has been flawed thus far, I'm glad it is getting more publicity and that the stories of people like Eric Garner, John Crawford, and others are being heard and that the DOJ is exposing systematic corruption in Ferguson. I have hope that things are changing slowly, but the pressure for change from the public and media needs to continue. Though not all police are bad people, the existing institutional problems and lack of accountability have breed corruption and allowed it to run rampant in many departments. We should be persistent in pointing out that police misconduct is something that disproportionately impacts minorities, but some acknowledgment that it does to a degree affect all impoverished groups might be helpful in uniting the public and aid the push for change.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

What kind of idiot post is this. Did you read the article? It says no history. No evidence by police of alleged bite marks. No audio from police. This guy is an ordinary bloke going about his business. Gets funked over for being a black man by police. End of debate.

He was being sarcastic.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Passive resistance is a disturbing term.

 

[Merc_]

So unlike the kind in the video?

Btw I'm mostly in agreement with you. It's not all cops. It's just psychotic cops that are the problem. The problem is they are protected behind the good ones so the whole system doesn't crumble. I get it. Still in today's world of cell phones and youtube we have no choice but to stop protecting the bad apples.

It's funny that you're saying this considering that it's exactly what Patrol is doing.

 

[Patrol]

So unlike the kind in the video?

Btw I'm mostly in agreement with you. It's not all cops. It's just psychotic cops that are the problem. The problem is they are protected behind the good ones so the whole system doesn't crumble. I get it. Still in today's world of cell phones and youtube we have no choice but to stop protecting the bad apples.

Biting would qualify, but the fact that the officer didn't seek medical attention, and didn't photograph his hand after the fact was unwise. Even then, I can see his mouth during the process so the clarity needs to highlight if it was one bite or he continued to bite down until he was struck. One bite, stop biting and then was met by multiple punches to the face? Unreasonable. Biting down and released only after being struck in the head by the punches? Reasonable use of force.

 

[No Love]

How many of those fucking idiots does it take to handcuff one guy? I mean seriously, you see this in EVERY one of these police brutality videos.

When they beat Kelly Thomas to death, they needed a lot of morons to "subdue" (aka murder) him.

NYPD needed a lot of dummies to murder Eric Garner too.

They really are a gang at this point.

 

[Banzai]

I...just can't bear to read these stories anymore. When will something be done about this? Is there something I as a non-american can do?

 

[GK86]

Yes, and thank you.



Damn, video is blocked by the work filter.

This is the part in which I do not like, which is highlighted by the video skipping too which, along with the video, makes the context hard to fully see. There is the totality of the circumstances that the officers are working with here; they're dealing with an individual who failed to pull over, attempts to get out of the vehicle upon finally pulling over, and then concealing hands/or refusing to show one of his hands. Three red flags that scream danger in the ears of a LEO.

Then, as the firearm was drawn, the suspect refused verbal commands and then, allegedly, screams "I'll kill you" or something to that effect. I'm assuming at this point they see both hands and recognize no threat on immediately accessible weapons, but they still decide to pull him out of the vehicle using force in order to detain the subject (for their safety) to better search him for any weapons as a precautionary measure due to the previous red flags. Again, my assumptions here.

Refusing to get out of the vehicle and then passively resisting caused him to get thrown to the ground where both officers attempted to gain control of him. He continues to passively resist as you can see how tense his arms are; at that point one of the officers grabs him by the head/neck and is laying on him in an effort to gain control of him getting back to his feet. It's hard to tell due to the video being broken up in pieces, but I can also see the individual's chin in the officer's interior elbow which IS NOT characteristic of a "choke-hold" where the esophagus is blocked.

Finding the drugs under the seat helps possibly explains the initial delay, as folks will always try to delay that slight amount of time to hide things. Ridiculous, yes, as we can see for the most part the scurrying about in the car. Teens trying to hide alcohol always gets a kick out of me. More of an annoyance, then anything.

Do I believe what they're saying? I don't think it's unreasonable. Do you know how many times people have threatened to kill me? Hell, I've been accused of rape during the booking process inside the jail... during booking process... inside the damn jail. Some people blow smoke just to cause a scene, or any attempt to ruffle feathers. I don't think it's unreasonable, but it sure as hell hurts the case when there's no audio. It's not hard to turn on the mic, and the fact that all six officers dropped the ball here? Disappointing.



Based on my training and experience, I will have to disagree on the inability to respond. Granted, I will go out of my way to use verbal judo to talk guys and gals into handcuffs; but it doesn't always work, sadly. I am not the biggest officer around, so it's rather necessary when I'm talking to a dude twice my size who is upset.



Okay.

"Refusing verbal commands" even though you don't know, since there's no audio.

"Refusing to get out of car", even though, again, you can't hear if the cops told him to get out.

"Resisting", again, dude is being choked. I think almost everyone's reaction is to do what the guy did in the video.


"I'm going to kill you", coming from an individual with no criminal record.

"Finding drugs", even though he has no history of drug use, no criminal record, and the arresting cop has been known to plant evidence. But we will take the cop word for it. Ridiculous.

And this is why people hate cops. Because cops like yourself, defend these pieces of shit.

 

[CadetMahoney]

"Refusing verbal commands" even though you don't know, since there's no audio.

"Refusing to get out of car", even though, again, you can't hear if the cops told him to get out.

"Resisting", again, dude is being choked. I think almost everyone's reaction is to do what the guy did in the video.


"I'm going to kill you", coming from an individual with no criminal record.

"Finding drugs", even though he has no history of drug use, no criminal record, and the arresting cop has been known to plant evidence. But we will take the cop word for it. Ridiculous.

And this is why people hate cops. Because cops like yourself, defend these pieces of shit.

 

[The Faceless Master]

at what point will people realize that cameras don't matter?

don't be Black.

nothing else matters.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

The question is, will it matter?

we have whole film collections of decades past so....no

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I can't imagine how scary it must be to be a black man in the US.

 

[Messofanego]

Too broad. The best answer I can give you is that it's not against policy if the force used is reasonable/proportionate to the resistance being showcased.

But the resistance showed in the video is not justifiable to punch a dude in the head 16 times. It's not proportional.

 

[Aegus]

I have to ask, is the increasing militarisation of the police one of the reasons this happens? It seems that the police see themselves as an occupying force and that citizens are the enemy.

 

[Messofanego]

What I don't get, why is the police already having weapons out at a dude who wasn't even fleeing in his car. Please tell me that's not standard protocol to have a weapon out even before anything has happened. He turned his brake lights on 7 seconds (according to edit in video) after they turned their lights on. If someone was going to be violent and require police brandishing weapons, wouldn't that person avoid even turning on brake lights?

If you're being choked or grabbed near the neck and fearing death, you're not going to just give up both your arms and put them behind your back when so many people are around like it's a gang beating. If that qualifies as "resisting", then police rules need to be revised.

 

[Backfoggen]

"Dent yelled at the officers: "I'll kill you""

Lmfao think of a better story cops.

 

[Zoned]

No set protocol when to use the guns and stuff. US cops seem really incompetent. Feels like probably a bunch of idiots are being hired and then just given license to pull whatever shit they want.

 

[JoeBoy101]

This is the part in which I do not like, which is highlighted by the video skipping too which, along with the video, makes the context hard to fully see. There is the totality of the circumstances that the officers are working with here; they're dealing with an individual who failed to pull over, attempts to get out of the vehicle upon finally pulling over, and then concealing hands/or refusing to show one of his hands. Three red flags that scream danger in the ears of a LEO.

As I posted before: 'Red flags' are enough to draw weapons? Despite none being seen or shown and no overt criminal behavior by the driver?

Then, as the firearm was drawn, the suspect refused verbal commands and then, allegedly, screams "I'll kill you" or something to that effect. I'm assuming at this point they see both hands and recognize no threat on immediately accessible weapons, but they still decide to pull him out of the vehicle using force in order to detain the subject (for their safety) to better search him for any weapons as a precautionary measure due to the previous red flags. Again, my assumptions here.

Detain as in put him immediately in a chokehold, right? And your assumptions are throughout that paragraph as there is no audio, we have no idea any commands or threats yelled.

Refusing to get out of the vehicle and then passively resisting caused him to get thrown to the ground where both officers attempted to gain control of him. He continues to passively resist as you can see how tense his arms are; at that point one of the officers grabs him by the head/neck and is laying on him in an effort to gain control of him getting back to his feet. It's hard to tell due to the video being broken up in pieces, but I can also see the individual's chin in the officer's interior elbow which IS NOT characteristic of a "choke-hold" where the esophagus is blocked.

This is probably the scariest part of your post. 'Refused' to leave the vehicle? He had all of half a second to leave the vehicle! If he had jumped out as fast as possible, you would have called that a 'red flag'. Then, you pull some bullshit line of 'how tense his arms are'. HOW do you see that? Then you completely skip over the part where he gets punched 16 times in the head for taking a natural reaction of moving his hands to the arm around his throat. Was THAT just for control?

Do I believe what they're saying? I don't think it's unreasonable. Do you know how many times people have threatened to kill me? Hell, I've been accused of rape during the booking process inside the jail... during booking process... inside the damn jail. Some people blow smoke just to cause a scene, or any attempt to ruffle feathers.

So because some people act this way, its better to just act like everyone acts this way?

I don't think it's unreasonable, but it sure as hell hurts the case when there's no audio. It's not hard to turn on the mic, and the fact that all six officers dropped the ball here? Disappointing.

What's disappointing is the violence used on a subject whom was non-violent, unarmed, had no history of violence, was not violently resisting, and was not 'suspected' of a violent crime.

 

[Paz]

This thread is incredible, I never thought I'd see the internal justification that goes on and explains why Police officers think it's OK to do this kind of stuff, fascinating.

And what a terrifying incident in the OP, I hope some justice is served to those involved.

 

[Fiend]

Sometimes the USA seems like a dystopia, where the public or a part of it, is controlled through fear

 

[Patrol]

"Refusing verbal commands" even though you don't know, since there's no audio.

"Refusing to get out of car", even though, again, you can't hear if the cops told him to get out.

"Resisting", again, dude is being choked. I think almost everyone's reaction is to do what the guy did in the video.


"I'm going to kill you", coming from an individual with no criminal record.

"Finding drugs", even though he has no history of drug use, no criminal record, and the arresting cop has been known to plant evidence. But we will take the cop word for it. Ridiculous.

And this is why people hate cops. Because cops like yourself, defend these pieces of shit.

You're right in that I cannot, with absolute certainty, tell you that such commands were aptly stated no less than you cannot articulate, reasonably, that they were not stated. Is it really unreasonable to assume verbal commands were issued?

As I stated to the other individual earlier, it does not appear to be the choke-hold. I can see his chin being in the inner elbow of the officer's arm, which is not characteristic of blocking of the esophagus (restricting airflow); it looks more like a carotid control hold in appearance. In the end, I believe it was just him gaining control of the subject's upper body. This is just my observations mind you, it can be clearly argued.

Only people with criminal records have the propensity to declare such spontaneous statements?

The drugs is by no means any important variable of the use of force in question here. I merely highlighted the initial failing to yield/pull over as a possible explanation with drugs being present in the vehicle as it's a common tactic for individuals to stall pulling over to hide various items like drugs, alcohol, or even weapons.

I think it's important and healthy to be able to see multiple points of views to these situations, as objectively as possible. At the end of the day, every individual deserves a fair chance under the law regardless of any immutable characteristic or job title.

 

[PillarEN]

Watching the video you just throw your hands up and say "it's the same thing like walking home at night and running into a group of hooligans who just want to inflict pain on someone". I used to live not that far from Inkster either.

 

[JoeBoy101]

You're right in that I cannot, with absolute certainty, tell you that such commands were aptly stated no less than you cannot articulate, reasonably, that they were not stated. Is it really unreasonable to assume verbal commands were issued?

As I stated to the other individual earlier, it does not appear to be the choke-hold. I can see his chin being in the inner elbow of the officer's arm, which is not characteristic of blocking of the esophagus (restricting airflow); it looks more like a carotid control hold in appearance. In the end, I believe it was just him gaining control of the subject's upper body. This is just my observations mind you, it can be clearly argued.

Only people with criminal records have the propensity to declare such spontaneous statements?

The drugs is by no means any important variable of the use of force in question here. I merely highlighted the initial failing to yield/pull over as a possible explanation with drugs being present in the vehicle as it's a common tactic for individuals to stall pulling over to hide various items like drugs, alcohol, or even weapons.

I think it's important and healthy to be able to see multiple points of views to these situations, as objectively as possible. At the end of the day, every individual deserves a fair chance under the law regardless of any immutable characteristic or job title.

The police officers employed violence on a subject whom was non-violent, unarmed, was not violently resisting, and was not 'suspected' of a violent crime.

Its also safe to assume that someone without a criminal record or not suspected of a violent crime will scream 'I'll kill you' when pulled over by the cops.

 

[Patrol]

But the resistance showed in the video is not justifiable to punch a dude in the head 16 times. It's not proportional.

Allegedly, the officer claims that the individual was biting him which would make the use of force in that scenario justifiable. There's certain aspects of that claim which I do not know however, such as was he biting him continually as he was striking him (which would be reasonable), or did he bite him once and then started striking him (unreasonable). He also didn't get medically checked out, and did not photograph the injury (since there was none to his hand/arm). It's a shaky foundation.

 

[msv]

I think it's important and healthy to be able to see multiple points of views to these situations, as objectively as possible. At the end of the day, every individual deserves a fair chance under the law regardless of any immutable characteristic or job title.

What multiple points of view? You're shoving in unrelated things. The only related facts are - the victim was not resisting in any meaningful way and the perps beat on the victim for no real reason. Red flags are not a reason, they're only a reason for suspicion, not for physical aggression. This is a case of assault, and all of the involved perpetrators should get a jail sentence.

Biting or not, doesn't matter, they pull him out of the car in mere seconds, they didn't leave time for the victim to get out of the car on his own. The choke hold was unnecessary as well, since it was immediate. Mind you, if any of these are protocol, that is irrelevant. Such a defense is no different than thumping a bible - it's not based on reason.

 

[patapuf]

I have to ask, is the increasing militarisation of the police one of the reasons this happens? It seems that the police see themselves as an occupying force and that citizens are the enemy.

It points to poor training/selection process more than anything imo.

 

[Patrol]

What multiple points of view? You're shoving in unrelated things. The only related facts are - the victim was not resisting in any meaningful way and the perps beat on the victim for no real reason.

Red flags are not a reason, they're only a reason for suspicion, not for physical aggression. This is a case of assault, and all of the involved perpetrators should get a jail sentence.

Biting or not, doesn't matter, they pull him out of the car in mere seconds, they didn't leave time for the victim to get out of the car on his own. The choke hold was unnecessary as well, since it was immediate. Mind you, if any of these are protocol, that is irrelevant. Such a defense is no different than thumping a bible - it's not based on reason.

The suspect was passively resisting with the officers based on the video I saw. He was struck multiple times by one of the officers due to, allegedly, biting the officer. That reason is would be justifiable, if proven.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

The suspect was passively resisting with the officers based on the video I saw. He was struck multiple times by one of the officers due to, allegedly, biting the officer. That reason is would be justifiable, if proven.

The only way you can see another human being scared for his life during an assault because he's being choked and believes he may die as 'resisting' is if you don't see that person as a human being.

If any cop for whatever reason possible decided that you needed to be in a choke hold, your basic human instinct is that you're being attacked and need to stop the attack so you can fucking breathe, not to turn your body into dead weight for them to fling around and do as they please with.

 

[Camwi]

“When the overhead lights came on, I looked and said, ‘Wow, are they stopping me?’" Dent said. “So I just kept going until I realized that they were really stopping me.”

Ok, not saying the police were right to do this of course, it's fucked-up beyond belief, but that line makes no sense. Even if you don't think you did something wrong, you still pull over to the side of the road to let the police officers by.