Support NeoGAF

[360pages]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";155669671]That argument is so hard for me to understand. Of course you would drop it if it's not available or you're not happy with something. What else are you supposed to do? You're not entitled to free content just because it's hard to get. If the Witcher 3 gets leaked a month early you aren't justified in downloading it. You don't get to walk into the back door of a theatre because you didnt feel like paying for a movie.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that it's closer to the fact that the theater isn't there at all and you have no option to pay for it. At most you could do is import it and then read the scans, which maybe more people should do. But even then that actually isn't helping the current problem since you are just giving money to the author and distributors in japan and not the ones here.

 

[dakkumauji]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";155667955]Your misunderstandings of the issues here are incredible. You think publishers are slow because they can't get enough translators? Really? You think that they haven't put out extra incentives? There are anime companies who brought the first deluxe box sets of anime full of extras that closed shop after losing sales to pirates. So you're asking for publishers to come up with a model that can keep up with faster-than-release-day scans, at a higher quality of editing and translation, all with additional purchase incentives while maintaining a price point that keeps up with free? Are you serious right now?
[/QUOTE]

Please, don't try and blame pirates for anime companies closing down cause no one was buying their stuff.

It totally wasn't because they spread themselves super thin, licensed everything under the sun regardless if it was even good or not, spending crazy amounts of money on licenses, releasing expensive 4 episode discs of shows, having the entire anime market in the US basically crash.

Could pirates had some effect on this? Sure. But it was not the only reason and surely not the main reason either.

 

[Maleficence]

This Bleach chapter was really confusing visually. Normally the art is not bad to follow but I have no idea what I'm looking at with some of these splurges.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Please, don't try and blame pirates for anime companies closing down cause no one was buying their stuff.

It totally wasn't because they spread themselves super thin, licensed everything under the sun regardless if it was even good or not, spending crazy amounts of money on licenses, releasing expensive 4 episode discs of shows, having the entire anime market in the US basically crash.

Could pirates had some effect on this? Sure. But it was not the only reason and surely not the main reason either.

I don't think its a question of whether people getting the same content for free "could" have had an effect on anime sales. You can't compete with free, man.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The problem is that it's closer to the fact that the theater isn't there at all and you have no option to pay for it.

Again, I don't see how that's a problem that justifies scans.

 

[360pages]

I also try to support a series in other ways if buying the Manga is impossible at the moment. Like other merchandise or even games and what not. (I spent way too much money on stupid Naruto Bullshit)

Of course not everyone does this, it's also foolish to believe pirates and scanlators are the single cause of the problem in the industry or any for that matter. As those are usually a result of a different problem.

The only time I can think of is the PSP and its pirating issues, even then you could argue that the DS was even easier to pirate once you figured out how.

 

[360pages]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";155671783]Again, I don't see how that's a problem that justifies scans.[/QUOTE]

I'll be blunt, even though scans suck, I don't think the Manga industry would even exist if it wasn't for said scans. Simply due to not enough content coming out to keep people interested.

You could argue it's a self fulfilling loop that no one bothers to get licenses because of scans and with no one printing it people go to scans.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Look, I'm not trying to get anybody to stop, nor am I trying to convince anyone that scanlations are the sole cause of the downfall of the manga industry.

The point I'm trying to make is that scanlations do not exist for the industry's benefit and people should stop trying to justify them as a force for good. Glorifying scanlation as a sort of twisted community is why we got all these aggregate sites making literally hundreds of thousands of dollars off of ad revenue by hosting pirated content.

 

[Shengar]

MangaGaf might have people where they buy a licensed copy even when the scans are around. It wouldn't be problem if all people doing something like this. The thing is that your average joe wouldn't do this. They will try to get as much as free entertainment as they can. This situation could be even more grim considering the era of smartphone skewered people perception on many things, especially entertainment. I could get why Godbeard's so against scantlation, since piracy on everything is wide and rampant in my country and that makes me feel nauseous often when thinking about it. But I can't condemned it wholly either because many quality manga just isn't available because the obscure or whatever nature of it. If I have to rely my manga reading habit on monopoly publisher that hardly do jackshit promoting their product, I'll never be able to read Kingdom, Prison School, or Me and The Devil Blues.

 

[VRMN]

You can't compete with free, man.

This is the thing though, Crunchyroll and the other companies that jumped in with them in anime simulcasting has proven that you can. Yes, there are assholes who rip those legal streams and pirate them, but the fansub scene has been utterly decimated by cheap, legal simulcasts.

Free is always going to be a hurdle, but giving people an opportunity to support what they love at a price they can afford with availability on a scale similar to or faster than what the pirates offer is the only way you're going to beat them. You cannot guilt people into going legit, unfortunately. The anime distributors tried for years with their entirely physical model; it didn't work.

Manga is going to have to do the same thing. It's going to need to get more digital, more affordable, and faster. The hurdle of these magazines being leaked before they're even out in Japan legitimately is a huge problem, but that's something that is going to have to be solved. You can compete with free. You just can't do it if you're also three years slower.

I honestly think Viz has the right idea; that partnering with the actual magazines and selling subscriptions to a digital translated version day and date is probably as good a model as you're going to get. CR's model isn't awful in and of itself, but the problem I have with them is I honestly have no idea when things come out, though this could be alleviated with a release calendar that goes past the next couple days.

 

[LeleSocho]

You can't compete with free, man.

Tell that to Steam.

 

[Angry Grimace]

This is the thing though, Crunchyroll and the other companies that jumped in with them in anime simulcasting has proven that you can. Yes, there are assholes who rip those legal streams and pirate them, but the fansub scene has been utterly decimated by cheap, legal simulcasts.

Free is always going to be a hurdle, but giving people an opportunity to support what they love at a price they can afford with availability on a scale similar to or faster than what the pirates offer is the only way you're going to beat them. You cannot guilt people into going legit, unfortunately. The anime distributors tried for years with their entirely physical model; it didn't work.

Manga is going to have to do the same thing. It's going to need to get more digital, more affordable, and faster. The hurdle of these magazines being leaked before they're even out in Japan legitimately is a huge problem, but that's something that is going to have to be solved. You can compete with free. You just can't do it if you're also three years slower.

I honestly think Viz has the right idea; that partnering with the actual magazines and selling subscriptions to a digital translated version day and date is probably as good a model as you're going to get. CR's model isn't awful in and of itself, but the problem I have with them is I honestly have no idea when things come out, though this could be alleviated with a release calendar that goes past the next couple days.

That's because Crunchyroll has added value in that using CR is significantly less effort than downloading the same product illegally. It couldn't be easier to watch Parasyte than it is to just pay the recurring sub to CR and click the button that says "start playing this shit in 1080p."

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Well, there is also the problem that publishing rights are a nightmare here in the US. A system that needs to be change, since if you translate something over here, they NEED to be owned by somebody or something. Either because of distributing or another reason.

Then their is the nightmare if actually finding the printed Manga. I can order that shit because I can work, but a large market who are teenagers or young adults can't. Books stores are dying and even with the digital age it's difficult to find a legit way of buying something.

It's also easy, compared to pirated movies and games. Mostly because it's near impossible to find a game/movie online.

A proceedings of the national academy of sciences paper last year indicated that the lack of convenient distribution channels for content is what causes an increase in piracy in western wealthy countries, so I dont think movies or games would need to be brought up since in wealthy countries its far easier to find a movie on tv, netflix and other places, or even buy it on disc or rent it in person...than it would be to find a manga in a store.

 

[dani_dc]

I don't really see it as an issue of service and adaption, at least not completely. To me it feels more like an issue of availability, as in since it's available for free, why would I pay for it?

The motivation for people to get stuff legally should be to get a good product, to pay for the work of other people that they enjoy reading and to keep the manga they like coming.

From what I've seen, scanlations are most of the time of lower quality compared to the legal stuff.
Scanlations are quicker to come out, but that's a given, they have no one to respond to, they don't have to wait for legal paperworks nor for contracts to be signed. They don't have to wait for sales to reach a certain point before the publisher can go ahead and get a new volume printed or new volumes licensed.

Adapting can only go so far. How do you adapt to combat people that put out scanlated chapters before they're even out in Japan?
Same-day releases are a cool concept, but that only works for something that's planned to be released on more markets from the on-set (like the digital ShonenJump with a fixed number of stories), it's not something that can be extended to everything in a niche market like the manga one.
You have a publisher who had to decide if they wanted to license a new title, or have one OOP reprinted. They couldn't have both. The money simply doesn't seem to be there for the level of adapting that some expect from the manga world.

Personally I've shifted my opinion of scanlations from helping the manga market to scanlations willingly damaging the manga market, as I can't see it any other way when time and time again scanlators refuse to drop licensed works and when they're asked to specifically, they make subgroups to keep scanlating.

This mostly hinges on the idea that Manga is a physical market in NA, but if there's anything we can take out of scanlations numbers is that's no longer the case, we're dealing with a digital market.

Publishers need to move into the same space and focus on the digital market, they need to rethink their entire approach and aim at offering translations of as many series as possible at earliest possible date, ideally covering entire magazines, if possible doing contracts at a magazine level instead of individual series level. Lower costs due to the lack of physical releases would allow for bigger risks as well.

The way they negotiate licenses would need to change, and that's really the biggest challenge to overcome due to their Japanese counterpart.

Its true that you can't beat early releases, not unless you convince Japanese publishers to allow you to release early, but, and this is an honest question, are there many non-jump series suffering from this issue?

As much as it sucks, the idea of manga as a physical product is outdated in NA, it will work for a small subset of popular mangas, but the market has move forward. Scans offer more mangas, closer release dates to the original releases and do so in a digital format.

Until publishers aim to do the same, they will be playing a losing game by trying to sell to a market that's simply not there.

The very minimum would be to offer digital releases of any series they pick up, which most american publishers aren't doing.

 

[Shengar]

This is the thing though, Crunchyroll and the other companies that jumped in with them in anime simulcasting has proven that you can. Yes, there are assholes who rip those legal streams and pirate them, but the fansub scene has been utterly decimated by cheap, legal simulcasts.

Free is always going to be a hurdle, but giving people an opportunity to support what they love at a price they can afford with availability on a scale similar to or faster than what the pirates offer is the only way you're going to beat them. You cannot guilt people into going legit, unfortunately. The anime distributors tried for years with their entirely physical model; it didn't work.

Manga is going to have to do the same thing. It's going to need to get more digital, more affordable, and faster. The hurdle of these magazines being leaked before they're even out in Japan legitimately is a huge problem, but that's something that is going to have to be solved. You can compete with free. You just can't do it if you're also three years slower.

I honestly think Viz has the right idea; that partnering with the actual magazines and selling subscriptions to a digital translated version day and date is probably as good a model as you're going to get. CR's model isn't awful in and of itself, but the problem I have with them is I honestly have no idea when things come out, though this could be alleviated with a release calendar that goes past the next couple days.

Good post, though I hope that CR just get over with that shitty regional locking practice
Give me the chance to legally stream my anime damnit!

 

[VRMN]

That's because Crunchyroll has added value in that using CR is significantly less effort than downloading the same product illegally. It couldn't be easier to watch Parasyte than it is to just pay the recurring sub to CR and click the button that says "start playing this shit in 1080p."

I think I'm getting what you're saying; that basically you can't make anything easier than these aggregator sites that have a thousand plus series, so even doing the same thing as them is going to be less effective because you aren't going to make anything easier.

I guess my counterpoint is that illegal streaming services exist for anime and, while I bet they do damage the legal services, you're never going to eradicate piracy entirely. You kind of have to make the bet that people who like the medium will support it given a chance. I'd like to see what the numbers are for the two manga services that have tried so far, honestly.

 

[Infinite Justice]

This is the thing though, Crunchyroll and the other companies that jumped in with them in anime simulcasting has proven that you can. Yes, there are assholes who rip those legal streams and pirate them, but the fansub scene has been utterly decimated by cheap, legal simulcasts.

Free is always going to be a hurdle, but giving people an opportunity to support what they love at a price they can afford with availability on a scale similar to or faster than what the pirates offer is the only way you're going to beat them. You cannot guilt people into going legit, unfortunately. The anime distributors tried for years with their entirely physical model; it didn't work.

Manga is going to have to do the same thing. It's going to need to get more digital, more affordable, and faster. The hurdle of these magazines being leaked before they're even out in Japan legitimately is a huge problem, but that's something that is going to have to be solved. You can compete with free. You just can't do it if you're also three years slower.

I honestly think Viz has the right idea; that partnering with the actual magazines and selling subscriptions to a digital translated version day and date is probably as good a model as you're going to get. CR's model isn't awful in and of itself, but the problem I have with them is I honestly have no idea when things come out, though this could be alleviated with a release calendar that goes past the next couple days.

Now they need to get rid of that fucking region lock.


Man locations can suck :/

 

[VRMN]

Now they need to get rid of that fucking region lock.


Man locations can suck for some people.

I think that's a licensing issue. If I remember this interview correctly, Crunchyroll said that they try to get every series that's broadcasting every season in every territory, but of course they're constrained by what their partners in Japan will agree to. For instance, this season they have a bunch of shows that I watch, but they're not available in the United States because they partnered with Funimation for those series. Ultimately this means I watch those shows with Funi's inferior player, but some stuff like that is hard to avoid with how Japan handles licensing.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

CR's model isn't awful in and of itself, but the problem I have with them is I honestly have no idea when things come out, though this could be alleviated with a release calendar that goes past the next couple days.

They need to fix their quality, missing pages, txt that doesnt fill the bubbles, pages uploaded blurred, numerous typos within some chapters. Its really bad some chapters.

 

[VRMN]

They need to fix their quality, missing pages, txt that doesnt fill the bubbles, pages uploaded blurred, numerous typos within some chapters. Its really bad some chapters.

I have to say I don't read many series they offer. It's kind of Yamada-kun and the Seven Witches, Fuuka, and then some monthly stuff like Girl May Kill, Joshi Kakusei, and Soredemo. Though I did read Wagatsuma-san and Mysterious Girlfriend X when those were still running.

I do need to get to A Silent Voice, Inside Mari and Kawaisou at some point. But with the series I mentioned as having read, I rarely have noticed any serious issues. My biggest issue is that Soredemo has a one volume gap right now that's driving me nuts, but I've resisted going to find a pirate scan somehow.

 

[Shengar]

I think that's a licensing issue. If I remember this interview correctly, Crunchyroll said that they try to get every series that's broadcasting every season in every territory, but of course they're constrained by what their partners in Japan will agree to. For instance, this season they have a bunch of shows that I watch, but they're not available in the United States because they partnered with Funimation for those series. Ultimately this means I watch those shows with Funi's inferior player, but some stuff like that is hard to avoid with how Japan handles licensing.

This licensing hell issue is forever makes scantlation and fansub feel justified to some extent :<
I just can't understand this still happening. Even Konami do this with their MGR ffs

 

[striferser]

Other than what other said, i think there are also subset of people who use scanlation to bypass censor. In my country, most adult oriented manga are censored, especially nudity and such. Not as bad during the 90's though. Example: At one point in Kindaichi manga, a mutilated victim are erased from the page, making the character looks scared looking at empty floor (seriously), it sure as hell confused a shit load of people reading it. I'm glad the censoring better now.

I sometime read scanlation for work that been legally licensed in my country just to see what was censored. Well, it's no longer much of a problem actually since most of the time only nudity are censored. I tried my best buying all the stuff that i read that's been legally licensed or at least rent it from a rental. At the very least, i think scanlation effect on my country is not as bad as US, because English is not our primary language, and the fact that manga is cheap also help that.

I can understand publisher hatred toward scanlation, but at least i think rather than openly antagonize the readers or using a resource to stop them, it's probably wiser to use that resource to attract more consumer, something that Hotline Miami devs or Paulo Coelho did. (not trying to dictate or anything though, just saying my 2cents, and if publisher think i'm evil, i deserve all that, not going to deny it)

 

[dramatis]

Dying. How have I never seen this image before?

It always makes me sigh when I see fanart of Fubuki with a plunging neckline that shows cleavage. Because ONE never drew her with a plunging neckline, and Murata followed up on that. And yet Fubuki is gorgeous without using that sort of generic female character design element used to titillate the little boys.

 

[RockTurtle]

Otoyomegatari 44

wow i heard about the chapter and commented on it (well the author) before but hadn't seen it yet.

middle-eastern yuri waifus

EDIT: actually, more like middle-eastern THREESOMES

 

[striferser]

Aku no Kyouten 0
Based on plot summary, it sound like a Japanese high school version of Dexter. Could be interesting. Let see how this goes!

 

[Turok_TTZ]

It always makes me sigh when I see fanart of Fubuki with a plunging neckline that shows cleavage. Because ONE never drew her with a plunging neckline, and Murata followed up on that. And yet Fubuki is gorgeous without using that sort of generic female character design element used to titillate the little boys.

blue ball artist gonna blue ball. I didn't even notice till you mentioned it.
At the same time, I don't see your fuss. I would understand if fubuki was showing cleavage but you call "that" cleavage? barely see any if at all.

Though it is true, Fubuki not drawn to reveal cleavage once.

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

Toriko 316
Bambina was truly cute this chapter.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Toriko 316
Bambina was truly cute this chapter.

...Okay...... here is the WSJ rankings for this issue

Volume 16 (16-3-2015)
1. Haikyuu!!
2. Toriko
3. Shokugeki no Soma
4. Gintama
5. Nisekoi
6. Bleach
7. Hinomaru Zumou
8. Gakkyuu Houtei
9. World Trigger
10. Kochikame
11. Takujou no Ageha
12. Isobe Isobee Monogatari

Cover & Lead Colour Page: Assassination Classroom
Colour Page: Boku no Hero Academia
Colour Page: Aka ke no Acho (Oneshot)
Colour Page: PSI Kusuo Saiki
Absent: One Piece

Gintama has been doing well in the rankings lately

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

Other then Ageha I'm not sure what they will be axing. Since Kochikame will never ever be killed, Isobe's real rank is unknown and Gakkyuu Houtei is unstable jumping all over the place from the dead bottom to the middle. The only other regular low ones are Bleach (which isn't happening) and World Trigger which is a unstable ranker + has a anime running.

 

[TheRealTalker]

how is World Triggers sales anyway?

the anime didn't help did it

 

[LeleSocho]

It always makes me sigh when I see fanart of Fubuki with a plunging neckline that shows cleavage. Because ONE never drew her with a plunging neckline, and Murata followed up on that. And yet Fubuki is gorgeous without using that sort of generic female character design element used to titillate the little boys.

I say bring more Fubuki fanart, sexy Fubuki for everyone.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Bleach 619

That panel with Ishida is Kubo as fuck.

Chapter is a goddamn mess. Where was Aizen?? All we got was Yhwach doing exactly what Aizen did with the "lol all your decisions were planned by me, God" bs

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

how is World Triggers sales anyway?

the anime didn't help did it

It did, Volume 7 sold 80K the first week, Volume 8 sold 70K the first week. After the anime started volume 9 did 150K it's first week and Volume 10 did 155K it's first week.

 

[dakkumauji]

Other then Ageha I'm not sure what they will be axing. Since Kochikame will never ever be killed, Isobe's real rank is unknown and Gakkyuu Houtei is unstable jumping all over the place from the dead bottom to the middle. The only other regular low ones are Bleach (which isn't happening) and World Trigger which is a unstable ranker + has a anime running.

It'll probably be something that was completely unexpected.

 

[TheRealTalker]

It did, Volume 7 sold 80K the first week, Volume 8 sold 70K the first week. After the anime started volume 9 did 150K it's first week and Volume 10 did 155K it's first week.

that is a bump


mmmm never knew

Oh, seems like i don't need to post the WSJ Rankings this Week, thanks RealTalker.
And i am also pleased to see Gintama doing so well in the Rankings lately

no problem

and I too am glad to see Gintama ranking well

 

[Nightbird]

Oh, seems like i don't need to post the WSJ Rankings this Week, thanks RealTalker.


And i am also pleased to see Gintama doing so well in the Rankings lately

 

[Rhapsody]

I sort of wonder about Kochikame right now. I know it's never going to leave (until it ends) just due to tradition, but I wonder what the quality is like after all these years.

 

[Nordicus]

Looking For a Father 28

She stopped calling him uncle and now uses "dad". Oh man, as if the inevitable romance didn't look awkward already. DIS GUN B GUD

 

[RockTurtle]

Zettai Karen Children 400

first nipple of the series confirmed.

the beginning of the end

 

[AlimNassor]

Bleach

I have no fucking clue what the main villain's powers are, or how they work. This isn't a hyperbole. I've been reading Bleach for a while now and I still don't fully understand what his powers do. This is my biggest problem with Bleach right now. When you write villains, you have to give them distinct powers. Something cool and flashy, and something you should be able to grasp. Ideally a power that can be overcome with strategy. The main villain's power in Bleach is not only incomprehensible, but it's just plain overpowered.

Like, "Bleach is crappy why complain!" is a valid, but I could be enjoying this fight a lot more if I understood what the main villain's power was, and it was more than just an "I win." skill

Even King Crimson's power from JoJo is more comprehensible than this.

Yhwach didn't break her arm. The guy behind her did.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Bleach is just trashy as shit at this point. Naruto looks like Fullmetal Alchemist in comparison at this point.

 

[Busaiku]

The Circumstances Leading to a Certain Magical Heavy Zashiki Warashi's Simple Killer Princess's Marriage

Huh.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Bleach is just trashy as shit at this point. Naruto looks like Fullmetal Alchemist in comparison at this point.

Given Naruto's reputation at the time then this declaration does not bode well at all.


But (as usual) my answer will continue to be "Aizen does something" for it to not seem as bad.

 

[Kurita]

I sort of wonder about Kochikame right now. I know it's never going to leave (until it ends) just due to tradition, but I wonder what the quality is like after all these years.

Well it's a fairly straight forward gag manga with no real plot so series like these tend to be pretty consistent in quality I think. Think of it as something similar to sunday comics.

 

[Turok_TTZ]

Why Can't I Get a Girlfriend? episode 43

Unlike Kazuki, Toudouin at least has good potential love interests who aren't Yuu. Also, I like where this is heading... Yisssss potential jealousy! Hopefully Toudouin finally strikes gold this time.

@ Gintama rankings

Yisss though it needs to be higher.

MOB PSYCHO 100 82

Oh my... Things are getting really interesting. Mob needs to wake up and fast.

 

[Save 'N Quit]

Oh, that's cute.

He's actually shocked that Uryu is playing along with Bach.

Almost as if he doesn't realize he's trying to get revenge for his dead mother.

 

[Turok_TTZ]

Oh, that's cute.

He's actually shocked that Uryu is playing along with Bach.

Almost as if he doesn't realize he's trying to get revenge for his dead mother.

Bad title for a bad chapter.
Needs more Aizen.

 

[Revo]

Mob Psycho 82

Alright, that fight makes sense.
Guess he isn't claw's boss for nothing.

 

[TheRealTalker]

I just want to see all your expressions when Juha Bach kills Aizen followed by 3 more years of Bleach starring more Ichigo

 

[Zweizer]

E? Heibon Desu yo?? ch5

The doctor's attitude is probably the most reasonable so far.