Marathon Releases September 23, 2025

I would consider this dude the best Extraction Shooter "expert" on YouTube. I've looked at a lot of them over the last 6 months.


That video was a great breakdown of what he played, I'm definitely warming up more too it now. Again the hero shooter stuff does bother me its not a genre of game i like, but i didn't like GAAS model type games before.

I gave Destiny a chance because it was Bungie and I loved it. I never doubted Bungie before , still think they should change some things but I'm willing to put faith in them for this. I really do hope this works out for them.
 
Holy shit, forgot GTAVI is sure releasing by that time as well, this game is mega DOA :messenger_grinning_squinting:

Day of reckoning for any game daring to launch close to the massive behemoth that's GTAVI

More money thrown to the trash Sony, good stuff, pat yourself on the back Hulst, you idiot 🤦‍♂️


Thats crazy, I must have missed the news, whats the release date of GTAVI ?
 
Holy shit, forgot GTAVI is sure releasing by that time as well, this game is mega DOA :messenger_grinning_squinting:

Day of reckoning for any game daring to launch close to the massive behemoth that's GTAVI

More money thrown to the trash Sony, good stuff, pat yourself on the back Hulst, you idiot 🤦‍♂️
Hulst wasn't supervising Bungie until 10 months ago (and even then it's arguable considering the deal, but whatever). :lollipop_confused:
 
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IGN guy said that he felt people in the room getting frustrated at dying so often. What a **** show.

This game just doesn't seem built properly.
yea I don't care

Thats like saying a bunch of jorunos kept dying in Dark Souls so I shouldn't play it lol

I'm here for the challenge, that tells me that Ai is doing wonders or if they are dying from other players they just suck..
 
This style of closed captions is so obnoxious, im guessing this is for a tiktok audience or something.
Truth.

At around 13 min in this video, he starts talking about the ratio of wins vs losses in extraction shooters so...this whole thing with dying often, that sounds like that makes sense in this type of game Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes

Keep in mind, I'm not even sure why this point would worry anyone, when the "expert" in this based on what you stated about that videos doesn't seem to support that being some bad thing
 
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I don't play these kind of games so I never planned on buying it. But I think the art style looks fantastic. I'm not sure if it's unique to these kind of games since I don't play them but based on the games I do play it looks very original.

Plus combat in Bungie games is always satisfying. If I were a fan of the genre I think I'd be excited about this game.
 
At around 13 min in this video, he starts talking about the ratio of wins vs losses in extraction shooters so...this whole thing with dying often, that sounds like that makes sense in this type of game Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes

Keep in mind, I'm not even sure why this point would worry anyone, when the "expert" in this based on what you stated about that videos doesn't seem to support that being some bad thing

Rabbits.
Wolves.

If people are getting frustrated at a high energy playtest, you're game is f***ed unless you fix it.

Rabbits will quit. Then the lesser wolves become rabbits until they quit.
 
Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes on usual damage control 🤣 Give it up for once

pPWj8Id.jpeg
 
Why tf did they have to use the Marathon name for this garbage. It doesn't add any brand recognition and now the trilogy is forever associated with whatever the fuck this is
 
Holy shit, forgot GTAVI is sure releasing by that time as well, this game is mega DOA :messenger_grinning_squinting:

Day of reckoning for any game daring to launch close to the massive behemoth that's GTAVI

More money thrown to the trash Sony, good stuff, pat yourself on the back Hulst, you idiot 🤦‍♂️
You have no idea when GTA will release.
 
So this is the mighty Bungies new game that they've spent years working on and shit loads of money....

Michael Jordan Lol GIF


What a shitty uninspired drab looking game, Absolute wank.
 
I haven't played any multiplayer games since The Final Shape. But admittedly, I was mostly a PVE enjoyer in Destiny 2. I would estimate that for every 1,000 hours I put in Destiny 2, probably only about ~200 of those were spent on PVP activities. I've never played an extraction shooter before, but I'm still gonna give this a try because I love the feel of Bungie games. I wouldn't be surprised if I find it's not for me though if it's ultra competitive.
 
Jesus christ wtf happened to bungie...this is what they deliver after a whole generations time and focus. Dull, uninspired and janky...wtf happened. I mean the least you can expect is the game to be immensely polished and toptier production values considering its next gen only and Sonys premier multiplayer offering so budget constraints are not a concern.

Yet they managed to throw out a janky trailer that looked like its some low budget aa game thrown out. I mean for all the talk of amazing artstyle, they failed spectacularly in translating it into ingame visuals. It seems like everything is covered in vaseline, everything looks super low detail, I mean it basically ended up looking on par with no mans sky. Just imagine that Sony decided to let these guys oversee and scrap the TLOU2 multiplayer when they had an amazing template after the first. Sonys first party management has been a mess this gen.
 
Nearly 30 years ago I had a blast playing Marathon with my friends. It was the first online multiplayer shooter I had ever played.

This is not what I hoped for. Ah well maybe in another 30 years?
 
This must be a side project for Bungie. Something a handful of interns are making while Bungie-proper prepares their next full release. If this is a full Bungie effort, they're in deep trouble. This looks like some rando indie slop. Easily their least ambitious project. I wonder how Sony brass feels. I wonder how many "Concord x Marathon synergy" marketing meetings were had last year.
 
I extend the challenge by 1 hour. Use as much AI art as you need ChorizoPicozo ChorizoPicozo
I was going to use AI, but it was too much waste of time:


First Things First:
There are three types of gamers:
  1. Those who seek escapism: art, lore/story/setting/worldbuilding, music, etcetera
  2. Those drawn to the act of play (Gameplay): how you interact and exist in the game.
  3. Those who want to "git gud": to understand and exploit the mechanics and systems.

I think Marathon failed to make a strong first impression in all of the above categories.

How would I have communicated a stronger sense of escapism?

1. Start with a shot of a space station orbiting the planet:
It implies and provides a narrative justification for the rotation or change of maps and accessible zones over time (seasons). Procedural elements add greater variety to the maps (biomes)

2. Inside the space station and from a first-person perspective (representing the player), we see a window with the planet visible in the background, and below it, a computer monitor
diegetic
menus/UI.
The player uses the monitor to do their shit and to select their contract with different factions. There is a representation similar to the stock market, a system that emulates volatile changes depending on the players performance in extracting or not extracting what the companies have contracted them for. This opens up a lot of shit, adds more replayability and risk versus reward, making each "drop" more dynamic and meaningful in a bigger context.

When the player is ready to play, the camera tilts upward, and we select the zone using by looking at the planet through the window, (holographic UI.)


3. How does the player "drop" onto the planet?
When the player chooses their contract with a faction, they get "branded," and their "consciousness" is transferred to a facility on the planet owned by that faction where the playable characters are built (the synthetic caterpillars). This makes the world feel more realistic and tangible (not just dissapearing when players reach a beacon or whatever).
This "branding" has gameplay implications. Each faction has its own strengths and weaknesses. Furthermore, the stock value system can influence player behavior, shaping how they approach missions, objectives, and interactions with other players. This could enable not only betrayal but also actions like helping upgrade AI enemies against other players. A solo player could use this strategy, for example.

How could I have shown stronger gameplay?
I think the game came across as quite basic in its traversal and overall movement and interaction with the world. boring as fuck.

Beyond a more dynamic traversal (players and environment) plus better animations.

I was thinking, "Hey, this looks like Death Stranding." Use the damn vehicles! Make them automated, at least. Fill them with cargo/loot/resources, select an extraction point or whatever. and boom, you have a dynamic mission. (It's not like this mode hasn't been invented.)


How could I have shown a stronger "git gut" factor?
By this point, gamers who are more interested in this aspect of video games should see the connection between the "stock value" > contracts > branding = Market Manipulation in order for them to acquired "gear" or abilities, credits or whatever this game is using. But in terms of gameplay:

It's the "Player Expression" thing. These "runners" can't even run much, they can't do parkour, as shown in the CGI short at the end of the livestream. The navigation, traversal, and AI interaction all came across as mundane, by-the-numbers, outdated, and slow. There was no complexity, strategy, or nuance involved. That's exactly the kind of thing I would've showcased instead.
 
I was going to use AI, but it was too much waste of time:


First Things First:
There are three types of gamers:
  1. Those who seek escapism: art, lore/story/setting/worldbuilding, music, etcetera
  2. Those drawn to the act of play (Gameplay): how you interact and exist in the game.
  3. Those who want to "git gud": to understand and exploit the mechanics and systems.

I think Marathon failed to make a strong first impression in all of the above categories.

How would I have communicated a stronger sense of escapism?

1. Start with a shot of a space station orbiting the planet:
It implies and provides a narrative justification for the rotation or change of maps and accessible zones over time (seasons). Procedural elements add greater variety to the maps (biomes)

2. Inside the space station and from a first-person perspective (representing the player), we see a window with the planet visible in the background, and below it, a computer monitor
diegetic
menus/UI.
The player uses the monitor to do their shit and to select their contract with different factions. There is a representation similar to the stock market, a system that emulates volatile changes depending on the players performance in extracting or not extracting what the companies have contracted them for. This opens up a lot of shit, adds more replayability and risk versus reward, making each "drop" more dynamic and meaningful in a bigger context.

When the player is ready to play, the camera tilts upward, and we select the zone using by looking at the planet through the window, (holographic UI.)


3. How does the player "drop" onto the planet?
When the player chooses their contract with a faction, they get "branded," and their "consciousness" is transferred to a facility on the planet owned by that faction where the playable characters are built (the synthetic caterpillars). This makes the world feel more realistic and tangible (not just dissapearing when players reach a beacon or whatever).
This "branding" has gameplay implications. Each faction has its own strengths and weaknesses. Furthermore, the stock value system can influence player behavior, shaping how they approach missions, objectives, and interactions with other players. This could enable not only betrayal but also actions like helping upgrade AI enemies against other players. A solo player could use this strategy, for example.

How could I have shown stronger gameplay?
I think the game came across as quite basic in its traversal and overall movement and interaction with the world. boring as fuck.

Beyond a more dynamic traversal (players and environment) plus better animations.

I was thinking, "Hey, this looks like Death Stranding." Use the damn vehicles! Make them automated, at least. Fill them with cargo/loot/resources, select an extraction point or whatever. and boom, you have a dynamic mission. (It's not like this mode hasn't been invented.)


How could I have shown a stronger "git gut" factor?
By this point, gamers who are more interested in this aspect of video games should see the connection between the "stock value" > contracts > branding = Market Manipulation in order for them to acquired "gear" or abilities, credits or whatever this game is using. But in terms of gameplay:

It's the "Player Expression" thing. These "runners" can't even run much, they can't do parkour, as shown in the CGI short at the end of the livestream. The navigation, traversal, and AI interaction all came across as mundane, by-the-numbers, outdated, and slow. There was no complexity, strategy, or nuance involved. That's exactly the kind of thing I would've showcased instead.
Confused Eminem GIF
 


This is probably the best breakdown video of the gameplay loop. He explains it well how this game may appeal to a wide audience. Really interesting perspective of how Marathon mixes various genres within other gaas games to create something rather unique
 
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You can really tell who the clueless people are that simply want to shit on the game by claims of "generic" and "soulless"

The art design is furthest thing from that, it's incredibly distinct. That distinct look MAY turn people off, but it's not anything CLOSE to being generic. It's striking and unique. I personally love it, but to each their own.
 
I'm not sure why your tone reads so defensive/aggressive here. I'm not saying "it's shit", I just personally think a lot looks and sounds concerning. I've already read and seen enough previews where no one sounds "incredibly excited and hyped", which is what you want for something like this. Of course it's all subjective, but still, I'm still combing through footage and write-ups and I've seen more "I don't knows" than anything else.

I've always known what this game would be, I was well aware. I was one of the few that wasn't happy with them revisiting the IP and in this way because it felt very... bizarre to me. But I respected it because it feels very brave and bold of them to be doing something so incredibly risky. The art style. The fact that it's a "big budget extraction shooter". I had no expectations going in, I was very curious to be honest, and I was prepared to be intrigued and impressed. But everything that I'm seeing and hearing is doing everything but that.

Not really sure how you felt that way with what I said, but that's neither here nor there. The way I feel about it still remains.

This game has an aesthetic and art style that seems to stand out more than anything experienced in the game at this moment. Could that change? Potentially, and honestly I hope it does for them. I'm not one to want games to fail or miss their mark. I always want games to find success because, well, I love games, and getting a new game off the ground isn't easy. Never has been, never will be. Especially nowadays, and especially with a "familiar feeling" GaaS title. I'm glad people are excited, I was hoping I would be one of them, but I can't say that I am. Sure, I wasn't super hyped from the get-go, but my curiosity was growing the closer we got to the reveal. Now the reveal has happened and that curiosity has dipped quite a bit, and there's been added concern. I hope things turn around for me regarding how I feel about it, but right now it's really hard to tell when and if that will even happen. So, I'll just wait and see how things pan out.

Not really intending to be overly defensive or aggressive. Apologies if you interpreted it that way.

I'm just surprised at people who are surprised at what Marathon turned out to be. Like I said, we've known what it's all about for ages. I had expectations going into the reveal, and when they showed it I was like, "Yep, they nailed what they were setting out to achieve - this is classic Bungie gameplay + Extraction shooter wrapped in an extremely slick coat of paint". A little taken aback by some of the reactionary claims after it. Maybe it's divisive? I honestly don't think it really is. Maybe the game is NOT FOR YOU, and I can understand that, but it looks to be extremely well made for what it is. It's not a concord situation where people are left scratching their heads at what they were thinking about when it was revealed to be a pretty basic shooter with horrible art and who this could even appeal to in 2024.

In this situation, you may not really like extraction shooters and you may not even like the artistic vibe they are going with, but I think anyone that's being honest will recognize this is a Bungie game, plays like a Bungie game, adds some unique flair to the art and concept of a PVPVE extraction shooter and that if that floats your boat it's looking like an appealing and well made product which will likely find a decent level of success.
 
I guess I didnt see the gameplay overview trailer.

It looks incredible. No way this isn't huge. The art is phenomenal. Really original pseudo cell shaded look. The OST already has some sick moments in the trailer. The retro polygon UI elements are awesome. The color choices are all weird and interesting.
 
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Not really intending to be overly defensive or aggressive. Apologies if you interpreted it that way.

I'm just surprised at people who are surprised at what Marathon turned out to be. Like I said, we've known what it's all about for ages. I had expectations going into the reveal, and when they showed it I was like, "Yep, they nailed what they were setting out to achieve - this is classic Bungie gameplay + Extraction shooter wrapped in an extremely slick coat of paint". A little taken aback by some of the reactionary claims after it. Maybe it's divisive? I honestly don't think it really is. Maybe the game is NOT FOR YOU, and I can understand that, but it looks to be extremely well made for what it is. It's not a concord situation where people are left scratching their heads at what they were thinking about when it was revealed to be a pretty basic shooter with horrible art and who this could even appeal to in 2024.

In this situation, you may not really like extraction shooters and you may not even like the artistic vibe they are going with, but I think anyone that's being honest will recognize this is a Bungie game, plays like a Bungie game, adds some unique flair to the art and concept of a PVPVE extraction shooter and that if that floats your boat it's looking like an appealing and well made product which will likely find a decent level of success.
No sweat, you're good!

Yeah, honestly, it being a Bungie title (because of their gunplay) is the only other thing that seems to be carrying this at the moment that ISN'T because of its art style and aesthetic. I knew to expect that. I mean, people love the way Bungie FPSs play, so I figured in terms of that it wouldn't be a surprise here at all. That + extraction shooter is this in a nutshell, I'd hope we all knew that. I'm just taken aback by the overall "been there done that" with the entire experience. I was honestly expecting something to make it "feel" different and unique. But at the moment (albeit it's early, we're still learning, and release is months out) it sounds like that doesn't exist. I guess that's the "only expectation" I had, which, I feel, is a very basic and standard ask. Much like there are titles of similar genres, and while some are almost carbon copies of one another, some are unique and kind of have their own "thing". For this to be a big budget extraction shooter, and a resurrection of the Marathon name/IP, I thought there'd be something more. Something that made me go, "Ohhhh neat!" But so far, that doesn't exist. I just thought there'd be SOMETHING more to it than a loud and different art style.

Does that mean my expectations were too high? I mean, I guess? But I can honestly say I had no expectations at all, so, to feel this way is honestly pretty disappointing, I'd say. So, yeah, maybe it just isn't for me and that's that. But I WAS curious and interested to know more about it. But now I'm more curious about their confidence in this, and I'm wondering what makes them think this will be the one people want, will come back to, put money into, etc.

You can really tell who the clueless people are that simply want to shit on the game by claims of "generic" and "soulless"

The art design is furthest thing from that, it's incredibly distinct. That distinct look MAY turn people off, but it's not anything CLOSE to being generic. It's striking and unique. I personally love it, but to each their own.
I mean it's subjective, so I don't think it's fair to say that at all. People can be pretty negative and abrasive these days about things they don't like. So I think it's just that. So far the art design is the only and most unique thing here. But this is a video game, one that you play, the "look" isn't even the most important part. Sure it will play and feel like a "Bungie game", but what else is there that makes it stand out? Is that it? Really?
 
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I guess I didnt see the gameplay overview trailer.

It looks incredible. No way this isn't huge. The art is phenomenal. Really original pseudo cell shaded look. The OST already has some sick moments in the trailer. The retro polygon UI elements are awesome. The color choices are all weird and interesting.

Cool to see you liked it as well.

I was blown away by the look of this game when they showed it off. I understand it's not a "next gen" type looking game where detail and lighting are set to max (like Death Stranding), but the style is just so damn slick....like I've wanted a shooter that looks like this for ages. Extremely stylized even to the point of having a cell shaded type look. I love that art choice and it's criminally underutilized imho. They went bold when they decided on this look and I agree, I think this has a very high chance of being extremely successful and one of the top GaaS titles out there, with a bigger userbase than Helldivers 2
 
I'm just taken aback by the overall "been there done that" with the entire experience. I was honestly expecting something to make it "feel" different and unique. But at the moment (albeit it's early, we're still learning, and release is months out) it sounds like that doesn't exist. I guess that's the "only expectation" I had, which, I feel, is a very basic and standard ask.

I think Bungie is holding back on what they've shown, so maybe that's why.

In this video below it is said that the end game content that Bungie is planning is basically Destiny style raids in an extraction shooter that's full of puzzles, etc. Sure it's been done before in Destiny, but I think it adds a lot to the extraction shooter genre with squads of 3 and can really make things feel unique and deep.

 
I think Bungie is holding back on what they've shown, so maybe that's why.

In this video below it is said that the end game content that Bungie is planning is basically Destiny style raids in an extraction shooter that's full of puzzles, etc. Sure it's been done before in Destiny, but I think it adds a lot to the extraction shooter genre with squads of 3 and can really make things feel unique and deep.


Yeah, that's something I said in another thread. That there is certainly a possibility that there's more here and they're just not sharing more. I certainly hope that's the case to be honest. I say that because so much of the feedback from this reveal and event lacks confidence, and that doesn't sound great for this kind of title.
 
You can really tell who the clueless people are that simply want to shit on the game by claims of "generic" and "soulless"

The art design is furthest thing from that, it's incredibly distinct. That distinct look MAY turn people off, but it's not anything CLOSE to being generic. It's striking and unique. I personally love it, but to each their own.
You are interpreting things in your own way, when someone here says that the game looks "generic" or "dull", they are not necessarily referring to the art style, but rather to the gameplay that seems ordinary and does not bring anything new to the table from what was presented.

For those who are looking for an extraction shooter, I recommend The Finals, it is very fun with its mechanics and destructible environments.
 
Just getting around to watching the video now.

I already had very little interest in this game and after watching that it's a definite no from me.

Honestly ARC Raiders looks better, but that's another game I have no interest in.
 
I say that because so much of the feedback from this reveal and event lacks confidence, and that doesn't sound great for this kind of title.

Disagree, I mean, the impressions are overwhelmingly positive. It's still in an alpha state and most of the complaints are not major things and seem like they could easily be addressed.

Whole event seemed quite confident - they basically had a huge blowout reveal, epic set at bungie studios with the devs, and had tons of follow up footage from playtesters
 
I'll answer this.

- Way bigger, more complex maps.
- A much higher degree of map interactivity.
- Shells with expansive playstyle variety.
- Proxy chat w/ temporary uneasy alliances.
- Multiple ways to accomplish objectives.
- Compelling objectives.

They seemingly looked at Escape from Tarkov and said "Let's make a less ambitious version of this 2017 game...for 2025."

Maps don't look small based on the extensive footage being shown
Map interactivity seems quite good - you have lots of secret passages, cool shattering effects to glass, tons of weather and day cycle effects, etc.
Shells all have pretty extensive playstyle variety
Proxy chat - idk, don't care about this complaint much
Multiple ways to accomplish objectives - the game gives you bounties for factions and throws you in a huge sandbox map with 18 players where multiple objectives are going on and you get the freedom to pick and choose many different things to do (go after faction progress, go after an in-game event)
End game apparently has raids with puzzles, seems compelling to me.

All these complaints and I'm like, are you even paying attention?

Yeah, Tarkov isn't F2P, but Tarkov also wasn't trying to onboard the average shooter fan or grow a wide community. It was unapologetically hardcore from the jump, and it stayed niche for years before breaking into a wider space. If Bungie wants to make Tarkov 2.0, then sure, charging upfront is consistent with that model. But if they're aiming to broaden the extraction shooter audience and invite in players who've never touched this genre, which they've implied, then reducing friction matters.

And yeah, live-service games always evolve, absolutely. That's fair. But there's a difference between evolving mechanics or balancing content after players buy in, and building the core gameplay loop with significant community input. If you're inviting players to help shape the game's direction (which is what Bungie has said), then pricing starts to matter more.

Skill-Up's point isn't that "live service games must be free," it's that if you're asking players to invest time to help build something and your genre already has a steep learning curve and punishing loot mechanics, then a price tag becomes a bigger deterrent than in something more accessible, like Helldivers 2.

So I wouldn't say his argument isn't rooted in common sense. I'd say it's rooted in a different vision of what kind of game Marathon is trying to be, and who it's for.

There are multiple business models that seem to be successful, the ones with a pay upfront model seem to have much better progression (IMHO), and it's clearly not a show stopper in terms of reaching a wide audience.

A $40-50 entry price isn't exactly a high barrier, and the game is going to evolve over time with seasons so the expectation is already there for this to change based on player feedback. This isn't a $70 game, after all. So it seems fair.
 
Yeah, Tarkov isn't F2P, but Tarkov also wasn't trying to onboard the average shooter fan or grow a wide community. It was unapologetically hardcore from the jump, and it stayed niche for years before breaking into a wider space. If Bungie wants to make Tarkov 2.0, then sure, charging upfront is consistent with that model. But if they're aiming to broaden the extraction shooter audience and invite in players who've never touched this genre, which they've implied, then reducing friction matters.

And yeah, live-service games always evolve, absolutely. That's fair. But there's a difference between evolving mechanics or balancing content after players buy in, and building the core gameplay loop with significant community input. If you're inviting players to help shape the game's direction (which is what Bungie has said), then pricing starts to matter more.

Skill-Up's point isn't that "live service games must be free," it's that if you're asking players to invest time to help build something and your genre already has a steep learning curve and punishing loot mechanics, then a price tag becomes a bigger deterrent than in something more accessible, like Helldivers 2.

So I wouldn't say his argument isn't rooted in common sense. I'd say it's rooted in a different vision of what kind of game Marathon is trying to be, and who it's for.
You do realize Bungie had exactly the same philosophy with Destiny right?
They were in continuous conversation with the community.

People also seem to have forgotten how pissed people were after playing the Destiny 1 alpha, where everybody discovered how extremely limited and barebones the game actually was compared to what was promised.

Then the game went on and became extremely successful regardless. In particular because the gunplay and gameplay were extremely well.
 
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You do realize Bungie had exactly the same philosophy with Destiny right?
They were in continuous conversation with the community.

People also seem to have forgotten how pissed people were after playing the Destiny 1 alpha, where everybody discovered how extremely limited and barebones the game actually was compared to what was promised.

Then the game went on and became extremely successful regardless. In particular because the gunplay and gameplay were extremely well.

Yep and because Destiny 1 had really compelling end game content - Vault of Glass was something players really enjoyed and is a huge part of the appeal. We'll see the same thing with Marathon. It will launch as a "platform" and grow over time, focusing on what the players really enjoy. It's a fine way to do a live service game. Get the baseline out there, add content later. Makes sense to me. You can't give everything all at once, and having that community feedback helps keep retention
 
Maps don't look small based on the extensive footage being shown
Map interactivity seems quite good - you have lots of secret passages, cool shattering effects to glass, tons of weather and day cycle effects, etc.
Shells all have pretty extensive playstyle variety
Proxy chat - idk, don't care about this complaint much
Multiple ways to accomplish objectives - the game gives you bounties for factions and throws you in a huge sandbox map with 18 players where multiple objectives are going on and you get the freedom to pick and choose many different things to do (go after faction progress, go after an in-game event)
End game apparently has raids with puzzles, seems compelling to me.

All these complaints and I'm like, are you even paying attention?

No offense to Men in Boxes but he's all over the place and bases too much of his opinion based on what he hears from others or what he wants to believe is true.

I think there has been a lot of negative response to Marathon (much of it I agree with) and Men in Boxes has taken that to heart and is disappointed that what he was championing (again with little to no information) as the next big live service game largely based on the promise of extraction shooters becoming mainstream doesn't seem so clear cut.

Let me be clear that I wasn't at all impressed with this presentation, but as important as the first impression was, just like with concord the test phase of this is going to be what is ultimately the most important.

Concord had a beta and then released like a month later... That just seemed pretty foolhardy out of the gate. Bungie has a lot of time here (well not A LOT) to make adjustments based on community feedback and ultimately that's going to be the most important element of it. The people crying that it isn't a F2P game were really never the target audience. So there's two types of criticism, criticism from those who think this game could be something better and criticism from those who set out to criticize the game from the get go.

I think Men in boxes takes to heart the latter and has now gone to the other extreme based on pretty limited information. As of now the vast majority of people who played it, even those who had criticism for it, say it is fun and most of their concerns could certainly be ironed out within 6 months or even shortly after launch.

People like me complaining that there is no single player campaign shouldn't be considered as part of the conversation here, but at least I can separate my own personal feelings about a game and what I think about it conceptually.

I think they have an uphill road ahead of them, but nothing that I saw is a nail in their coffin.

I do hope they'll create some solo queues and duo queues ahead of time though. I think that would be the smart thing to do, but it's not like they don't have this feedback or won't get a tremendous amount of feedback at the end of the month.
 
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No offense to Men in Boxes but he's all over the place and bases too much of his opinion based on what he hears from others or what he wants to believe is true.

I think there has been a lot of negative response to Marathon (much of it I agree with) and Men in Boxes has taken that to heart and is disappointed that what he was championing (again with little to no information) as the next big live service game largely based on the promise of extraction shooters becoming mainstream doesn't seem so clear cut.

Let me be clear that I wasn't at all impressed with this presentation, but as important as the first impression was, just like with concord the test phase of this is going to be what is ultimately the most important.

Concord had a beta and then released like a month later... That just seemed pretty foolhardy out of the gate. Bungie has a lot of time here (well not A LOT) to make adjustments based on community feedback and ultimately that's going to be the most important element of it. The people crying that it isn't a F2P game were really never the target audience. So there's two types of criticism, criticism from those who think this game could be something better and criticism from those who set out to criticize the game from the get go.

I think Men in boxes takes to heart the latter and has now gone to the other extreme based on pretty limited information. As of now the vast majority of people who played it, even those who had criticism for it, say it is fun and most of their concerns could certainly be ironed out within 6 months or even shortly after launch.

People like me complaining that there is no single player campaign shouldn't be considered as part of the conversation here, but at least I can separate my own person feelings about a game and what I think about it conceptually.

I think they have an uphill road ahead of them, but nothing that I saw is a nail in their coffin.

I do hope they'll create some solo queues and duo queues ahead of time though. I think that would be the smart thing to do, but it's not like they don't have this feedback or won't get a tremendous amount of feedback at the end of the month.

All that is a fair response. I also think it probably would have been better to package Marathon as a $70 game that includes a 15 hour single player campaign + the MP content. I don't think the single player needs to require a massive amount of dev resources. It doesn't even need to be 15 hours, maybe 5-8 is just fine (like Titanfall 2 - quality over quantity).

I think there's something to a single player narrative experience that captivates your interest into the story and is a good precursor for staying long-term for the multiplayer. It's something that the multiplayer cannot really provide by itself.

So agreed on that complaint, although it doesn't detract from my overall interest in the MP itself. Like you said though, I haven't heard any overtly negative impressions of this game, only things that appear to have minor tweaks that can easily be ironed out. And that's a good sign, because they have another half a year to polish this game.

I can't get a good read on Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes and whether he's a deliberate troll that plans his trolls months in advance, or if he's being genuine. He seems to thrive on reactionary drama though. No doubt he'll be making a Marathon thread close to launch claiming it to have the biggest potential success the industry has ever seen in this space, doing a complete 180.
 
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I was going to use AI, but it was too much waste of time:


First Things First:
There are three types of gamers:
  1. Those who seek escapism: art, lore/story/setting/worldbuilding, music, etcetera
  2. Those drawn to the act of play (Gameplay): how you interact and exist in the game.
  3. Those who want to "git gud": to understand and exploit the mechanics and systems.

I think Marathon failed to make a strong first impression in all of the above categories.

How would I have communicated a stronger sense of escapism?

1. Start with a shot of a space station orbiting the planet:
It implies and provides a narrative justification for the rotation or change of maps and accessible zones over time (seasons). Procedural elements add greater variety to the maps (biomes)

2. Inside the space station and from a first-person perspective (representing the player), we see a window with the planet visible in the background, and below it, a computer monitor
diegetic
menus/UI.
The player uses the monitor to do their shit and to select their contract with different factions. There is a representation similar to the stock market, a system that emulates volatile changes depending on the players performance in extracting or not extracting what the companies have contracted them for. This opens up a lot of shit, adds more replayability and risk versus reward, making each "drop" more dynamic and meaningful in a bigger context.

When the player is ready to play, the camera tilts upward, and we select the zone using by looking at the planet through the window, (holographic UI.)


3. How does the player "drop" onto the planet?
When the player chooses their contract with a faction, they get "branded," and their "consciousness" is transferred to a facility on the planet owned by that faction where the playable characters are built (the synthetic caterpillars). This makes the world feel more realistic and tangible (not just dissapearing when players reach a beacon or whatever).
This "branding" has gameplay implications. Each faction has its own strengths and weaknesses. Furthermore, the stock value system can influence player behavior, shaping how they approach missions, objectives, and interactions with other players. This could enable not only betrayal but also actions like helping upgrade AI enemies against other players. A solo player could use this strategy, for example.

How could I have shown stronger gameplay?
I think the game came across as quite basic in its traversal and overall movement and interaction with the world. boring as fuck.

Beyond a more dynamic traversal (players and environment) plus better animations.

I was thinking, "Hey, this looks like Death Stranding." Use the damn vehicles! Make them automated, at least. Fill them with cargo/loot/resources, select an extraction point or whatever. and boom, you have a dynamic mission. (It's not like this mode hasn't been invented.)


How could I have shown a stronger "git gut" factor?
By this point, gamers who are more interested in this aspect of video games should see the connection between the "stock value" > contracts > branding = Market Manipulation in order for them to acquired "gear" or abilities, credits or whatever this game is using. But in terms of gameplay:

It's the "Player Expression" thing. These "runners" can't even run much, they can't do parkour, as shown in the CGI short at the end of the livestream. The navigation, traversal, and AI interaction all came across as mundane, by-the-numbers, outdated, and slow. There was no complexity, strategy, or nuance involved. That's exactly the kind of thing I would've showcased instead.
I was going to read the wall of text, but it was too much waste of time:
p6qBilk.png
 
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All that is a fair response. I also think it probably would have been better to package Marathon as a $70 game that includes a 15 hour single player campaign + the MP content. I don't think the single player needs to require a massive amount of dev resources. It doesn't even need to be 15 hours, maybe 5-8 is just fine (like Titanfall 2 - quality over quantity).

I think there's something to a single player narrative experience that captivates your interest into the story and is a good precursor for staying long-term for the multiplayer. It's something that the multiplayer cannot really provide by itself.

So agreed on that complaint, although it doesn't detract from my overall interest in the MP itself. Like you said though, I haven't heard any overtly negative impressions of this game, only things that appear to have minor tweaks that can easily be ironed out. And that's a good sign, because they have another half a year to polish this game.

I can't get a good read on Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes and whether he's a deliberate troll that plans his trolls months in advance, or if he's being genuine. He seems to thrive on reactionary drama though. No doubt he'll be making a Marathon thread close to launch claiming it to have the biggest potential success the industry has ever seen in this space, doing a complete 180.


100% -- People upset about the game not being F2P wouldn't really have an excuse because you have the single player mode and then you have a single player element that those who don't want to buy the game at all like me, would still consider buying it.

I'm not really sure when FPS strategy shifted to JUST putting out multiplayer, but I think that is fundamentally much harder to sell and that's a big reason for as many failures as we see. Maybe they got a lot of feedback from multiplayer gamers who said they didn't care about single player and these are primarily the players who will buy into continued monetization, but single player gamers can absolutely ensure that your game isn't a complete flop.

You could have remade Marathon 1 using the same engine and packed that in and I think people would have been happy with that. I actually wonder if there are some legal restrictions on Bungie using the Security Officer as part of their deal with Microsoft to go independent and why this Marathon has such little to do with the original franchise. I also wonder if maybe they're not allowed to make single player games contractually, but maybe that's a reach.

One thing to note is that they don't have to launch physical discs on day 1 either. So they could literally wait as long as they need to "go gold" here. I also wouldn't be surprised if the game is delayed to next year.

I think he is genuine, but inherently dramatic. He did the same thing with Concord. He just kind of goes with the wind.
 
Another thing to keep in mind is how reception and feedback is received and from where.

IGN put out a video previewing the game suggesting in the thumbnail that it might be Bungie's Fortnite and you can already guess that it has been downvoted aggressively.

You go to some of these streamers who were positive about it and their videos from their own communities are overwhelming positive, even in the comment sections, which are always negative on youtube.

IGN's gameplay trailer video is inherently more negative than Bungie's or PlayStation's. That's largely because IGN is a breeding ground for hate/lies/misinformation these days.

So I'd take anything with a grain of salt from someone who hasn't played it extensively.
 
Maybe it was posted already, but...



Complete progression wipe after 3 months? WTF is that and to whom is it going to appeal? The game looks very rough and more like in the middle of the alpha state. I can't see how they'll manage to make it better within just a few months. And then, with only 3 maps at launch, the narrative is not even there, the approach to it is trash (based on what they said how it'll work in concept)...

Why can't you just make a narrative driven SP FPS like the first 3 games were? What's the point in this fixation on MMO and multiplayer for SO LONG!? None F2P model, lack of content at launch and progression wipe will kill the game, mark my words.
 
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I wonder how much that cost and how many people it could have kept in jobs at Bungie.

Extravagant, unnecessary nonsense for what amounts to nothing more than a simplistic multiplayer shooter.
 
Maybe it was posted already, but...



Complete progression wipe after 3 months? WTF is that and to whom is it going to appeal? The game looks very rough and more like in the middle of the alpha state. I can't see how they'll manage to make it better within just a few months. And then, with only 3 maps at launch, the narrative is not even there, the approach to it is trash (based on what they said how it'll work in concept)...

Why can't you just make a narrative driven SP FPS like the first 3 games were? What's the point in this fixation on MMO and multiplayer for SO LONG!?

Tarkov does regular progression wipes. Far from a perfect system but when advantage is tied to your personal resource stash it becomes difficult for new players to onboard after a while. After several months everyone is decked out and sweaty and no one cares what they might lose in a raid. The wipes give you a chance to be on even footing again and for resource scarcity to return.

Inherent problem with the format since the map effectively generates infinite resources.
 
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