Fake
Member
One Concord character might fit in the roster.
Even the weapon looks lame.
near
Member
I watched the video, and they make perfect sense. It's a pretty good hands-on impression overall. I transcribed this bit myself because it perfectly reflects my thoughts:
"
I don't think you can say, 'we're going to build this game with the help of our community' while still charging a premium up front price tag for it. You got to pick one. Either the game is built and you charge for it or isn't and you welcome people in for free so they can help do some of the work for you.
…
There is a simple reality that a game like this needs a vast player base to be successful. The psychological barrier to entry for the extraction shooter genre is huge, because your average player is not going to love the idea of paying $40 or whatever, for a game were they loose all there best loot when they have a bad run, and then they lose absolutely everything they've collected every few months. This is a hardcore genre. If Bungie are serious about welcoming in the type of player who doesn't typically play this game, then I don't think an upfront price tag makes sense. You just need to get these people in, then sell battle passes, cosmetics or whatever.
"
Forsete
Member
Np.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
If you think this and concord are the same with respect to art, DEI, etc, then yes you are dead wrong
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
Helldivers and plenty of other titles say hi
$40 is not a big barrier to entry
This doesn't need to be f2p
Pasta la Vista
Member
The communication of all this has been very poor and the information sparse, for something releasing so soon, that is a huge red flag.
Personally I always liked the aesthetics and I love Bungie gunplay, so I'm not 100% down on it just yet... but getting very close to writing this off. The reasons I mentioned above should make anyone apprehensive.
Personally I always liked the aesthetics and I love Bungie gunplay, so I'm not 100% down on it just yet... but getting very close to writing this off. The reasons I mentioned above should make anyone apprehensive.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
clarky
Gold Member
Yeah I like Skill Up and value his opinion but at the end of the day he plays games for a living.
I've bolded the bit of you post because they only successful entries in this genre all do exactly that. Tarkov and The Hunt for example. Its a niche of a niche, just like BR was pre Fortnite. I will say this is a massive gamble from them. They are "all in" on this one. Not a good place to be imo.
Cert.in.Death
Member
My eyes are bleeding from the color saturation levels, but will keep an open mind. I learned from Overwatch: a game I had zero interest in the lead up to launch, then allowed to consume a fair chunk of my life.
I'll allow space for Bungie to surprise me, but I'd rather play Destiny than this, at first glance.
I'll allow space for Bungie to surprise me, but I'd rather play Destiny than this, at first glance.
Wimbledon
Member
Someone in the comment of hiddenXperia asked a similar question. I'm seeing many people ask this on other channels as well.
No they don't have indepth character creator like a finals or just any RPG where your customizing how the characters looks, gender, skin tone , eyes etc.
Your customizing around a character that already exists that's my point. That to me sucks big time , and I really like what I see in terms of gameplay.
But the lack of your character identity that's not going to sit well with alot of people. Then on top to price tag and the genre....like I get defending it but there some things to be concerned about here.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Someone in the comment of hiddenXperia asked a similar question. I'm seeing many people ask this on other channels as well.
No they don't have indepth character creator like a finals or just any RPG where your customizing how the characters looks, gender, skin tone , eyes etc.
Your customizing around a character that already exists that's my point. That to me sucks big time , and I really like what I see in terms of gameplay.
But the lack of your character identity that's not going to sit well with alot of people. Then on top to price tag and the genre....like I get defending it but there some things to be concerned about here.
They confirmed you have lots of cosmetic modifications
near
Member
Sure, Helldivers 2 proves that a $40 multiplayer game can succeed. But it's not a one shoe fits all template. Helldivers 2 is a co-op PvE. Marathon's genre and gameplay mechanics are hardcore. So while you make a valid point, the Skill-Up argument holds weight from a player psychology and on-boarding perspective.
Wimbledon
Member
Cosmetic modifications for the hero that already exist....lol
Its a hero shooter but you can customize how that hero looks in terms of armor to make them stand out. But they already exists there already pre made like a hero based game.
It no different If overwatch let you customize every piece of armor that Winston is wearing. Or like his base looks. The character exist already that's my point.
There going to add more pre made heroes to the game. Still not what people want is my point.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
Escape from tarkov, in the same genre, is not f2p
Skill up doesn't have a valid argument.
Helldivers 2 was also a game that was "evolving" post launch, so it's not necessary for games to be 100% nailed down at launch
In fact, no live service game really is, they are all evolving with time. So it's a silly argument not rooted in common sense
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clarky
Gold Member
Same level
near
Member
Yeah, Tarkov isn't F2P, but Tarkov also wasn't trying to onboard the average shooter fan or grow a wide community. It was unapologetically hardcore from the jump, and it stayed niche for years before breaking into a wider space. If Bungie wants to make Tarkov 2.0, then sure, charging upfront is consistent with that model. But if they're aiming to broaden the extraction shooter audience and invite in players who've never touched this genre, which they've implied, then reducing friction matters.
And yeah, live-service games always evolve, absolutely. That's fair. But there's a difference between evolving mechanics or balancing content after players buy in, and building the core gameplay loop with significant community input. If you're inviting players to help shape the game's direction (which is what Bungie has said), then pricing starts to matter more.
Skill-Up's point isn't that "live service games must be free," it's that if you're asking players to invest time to help build something and your genre already has a steep learning curve and punishing loot mechanics, then a price tag becomes a bigger deterrent than in something more accessible, like Helldivers 2.
So I wouldn't say his argument isn't rooted in common sense. I'd say it's rooted in a different vision of what kind of game Marathon is trying to be, and who it's for.
clarky
Gold Member
Nah man. You might not like it, but at least it has direction.
MiguelItUp
Member
I'm still really curious as to why they revisited the IP, but nothing at all feels like the IP it's connected to, other than the name and logo. I'm sure there are some connections, like planets, and some other things in the universe. I can't help but feel like it may have something to do with them owning the IP and not doing anything with it for so long. Maybe they thought because of its memorable logo they could do more with it. But really, at this point they really could've made an entirely IP again, and they probably should of.
I still can't believe that the game has been in development for roughly four years, is going to launch in six months, and the narrative has not been written yet. How is that not concerning when they've boasted about the story and narrative playing such a big role?
Originally I liked the art and aesthetic, but the more I'm looking at it, I think that like is disappearing and fast. Especially when you see the UI, HUD, and everything. The colors, the templates, the font, etc. I mean, good on them for doing something that visually stands out. It's a very bold thing to do. But it's done in a way that looks ugly and almost looks.... cheap or something? On top of that the gameplay and everything sounds like it's very basic and familiar which.... isn't a good thing. Sure, Bungie does gunplay the Bungie way, and a lot of people like/love that. But I personally can't help but think that alone will carry the game if so much that the player experiences in the game currently feels basic and familiar.
I still can't believe that the game has been in development for roughly four years, is going to launch in six months, and the narrative has not been written yet. How is that not concerning when they've boasted about the story and narrative playing such a big role?
Originally I liked the art and aesthetic, but the more I'm looking at it, I think that like is disappearing and fast. Especially when you see the UI, HUD, and everything. The colors, the templates, the font, etc. I mean, good on them for doing something that visually stands out. It's a very bold thing to do. But it's done in a way that looks ugly and almost looks.... cheap or something? On top of that the gameplay and everything sounds like it's very basic and familiar which.... isn't a good thing. Sure, Bungie does gunplay the Bungie way, and a lot of people like/love that. But I personally can't help but think that alone will carry the game if so much that the player experiences in the game currently feels basic and familiar.
I mean, they could, but the fact we're six months away is pretty damn concerning. If anything is adjusted, it's not gonna be huge. My hope for them is that there's more there that they're just not talking about. But we'll see.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
What exactly were you all thinking this game was going to be?
It's been well telegraphed for ages. It's almost like you are expecting something it was never planning to be
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The one trump card they can still play is progression.
That's hard to show off and it sounds like playtesters were never able to see what full progression feels like. (They only played 2 days per build)
One of the core pillars of this genre is still a relative mystery.
onnextflix5
Member
I'm Not really interested in these multiplayer shooters, but surely the bungie name will make this successful right? Sony can't afford another flop.
CuNi
Member
Tarkov also according to the devs itself has a team-size of 90–100 people.
Bungie, has over 1000 employees and afaik this was supposed to be their "next big thing" so I'd assume It's much, much more than just 100 devs working on it full-time.
Also, Tarkov capitalized on it being one, if not the very first hardcore extraction shooter, so it had the allure of being something new and unique.
Marathon is late to the party and has established competition.
I don't see this working out for Marathon and Bungie honestly.
Niche Genre, Niche Playerbase.
I doubt the game can generate enough revenue to be worth it for Bungie, but only time will tell.
MiguelItUp
Member
I'm not sure why your tone reads so defensive/aggressive here. I'm not saying "it's shit", I just personally think a lot looks and sounds concerning. I've already read and seen enough previews where no one sounds "incredibly excited and hyped", which is what you want for something like this. Of course it's all subjective, but still, I'm still combing through footage and write-ups and I've seen more "I don't knows" than anything else.
I've always known what this game would be, I was well aware. I was one of the few that wasn't happy with them revisiting the IP and in this way because it felt very... bizarre to me. But I respected it because it feels very brave and bold of them to be doing something so incredibly risky. The art style. The fact that it's a "big budget extraction shooter". I had no expectations going in, I was very curious to be honest, and I was prepared to be intrigued and impressed. But everything that I'm seeing and hearing is doing everything but that.
Not really sure how you felt that way with what I said, but that's neither here nor there. The way I feel about it still remains.
This game has an aesthetic and art style that seems to stand out more than anything experienced in the game at this moment. Could that change? Potentially, and honestly I hope it does for them. I'm not one to want games to fail or miss their mark. I always want games to find success because, well, I love games, and getting a new game off the ground isn't easy. Never has been, never will be. Especially nowadays, and especially with a "familiar feeling" GaaS title. I'm glad people are excited, I was hoping I would be one of them, but I can't say that I am. Sure, I wasn't super hyped from the get-go, but my curiosity was growing the closer we got to the reveal. Now the reveal has happened and that curiosity has dipped quite a bit, and there's been added concern. I hope things turn around for me regarding how I feel about it, but right now it's really hard to tell when and if that will even happen. So, I'll just wait and see how things pan out.
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clarky
Gold Member
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I'll answer this.
- Way bigger, more complex maps.
- A much higher degree of map interactivity.
- Shells with expansive playstyle variety.
- Proxy chat w/ temporary uneasy alliances.
- Multiple ways to accomplish objectives.
- Compelling objectives.
They seemingly looked at Escape from Tarkov and said "Let's make a less ambitious version of this 2017 game...for 2025."
ChorizoPicozo
Member
It is called Graphic Grossisms
ChorizoPicozo
Member
it's not about intelligence; it's about creative bankruptcy.
Even I, a simple chorizo, can think of something waaaay more compelling on the spot. Thats how you know this project has been in massive turmoil.
clarky
Gold Member
What are you thinking? You have one minute to reply before your spot runs out.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
do i waste my evening making a thread using A. I. Art to convey my idea?
clarky
Gold Member
You said on the spot, that spot has expired.do i waste my evening making a thread using A. I. Art to convey my idea?
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
ChorizoPicozo
Member
how many words do you think i can write in a minute?
clarky
Gold Member
Going off the last minute, not many.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
wait. im gonna eat. but i will make a thread about it thenI extend the challenge by 1 hour. Use as much AI art as you needChorizoPicozo
Iced Arcade
Member
How to make 3 billion and get released a few years later.
MayauMiao
Member
At least try to be like the original otherwise why even use the Marathon brand?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I would consider this dude the best Extraction Shooter "expert" on YouTube. I've looked at a lot of them over the last 6 months.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Using the Marathon brand doesn't even make sense.
The old games came out 30 years ago, Marathon 1 only on Mac, and these games didnt sell great or ever had anyone talking about since then (legacy). The new game looks nothing like the old ones and has nothing to do with the old game (gameplay arc). I bet most PC shooter fans back then never even heard of the Marathon games.
It would be like Sega coming out with a new RPG in 2025. Its got neon colours, has turn based combat, and you can play as a 6 character party doing magic combos. It's called Sword of Vermilion. Same name as the old Genesis game, but doesnt resemble it in any way.
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apocaliptic
Member
I give Bungie a year, Sony will close them. This is generic crap from art style to gameplay. Remind me in a year
clarky
Gold Member
Show me a game that looks like this.
Holy shit, forgot GTAVI is sure releasing by that time as well, this game is mega DOA
Day of reckoning for any game daring to launch close to the massive behemoth that's GTAVI
More money thrown to the trash Sony, good stuff, pat yourself on the back Hulst, you idiot
Wimbledon
Member
more of a breakdown of the game, those are PRE-MADE HEROES , those characters have a background and they play apart in the narrative of this world...
Like maybe that is insignificant thing for some people....but having in depth customization where you can customize the base features of YOUR character , skin tone, eye color/look, body type, gender, hair style making a unique character that matters to YOU.
Not choosing a HERO like Apex legends or Overwatch or valorant and changing the color and look of an already established character LIKE THESE ARE. Especially when your previous games, player expression is one of the more unique things in that game.
Thats going to turn alot of people off, they need to change that. Outside of the price tag , the amount of maps being major concerns.....that is definitely on the list of things that needs to change.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
When games like Apex or Fortnite or Overwatch or Tarkov or Rainbow etc have movement and controls on par with Bungle then the art of Destiny drops to this Marathon level we aren't in a a great place for the reveal as Bungie fans.
I'm hoping the gameplay is a masterclass from Bungie but given RNG and shite DLC for years of D2 I'm not holding my breath here.
I will always give Bungie a purchase and a good go at it, we will see.
One thing I will say in the CGI reveal the animation, lighting and camera work was super well done. Hope that translates to in game but I'm not seeing it so far.
I'm hoping the gameplay is a masterclass from Bungie but given RNG and shite DLC for years of D2 I'm not holding my breath here.
I will always give Bungie a purchase and a good go at it, we will see.
One thing I will say in the CGI reveal the animation, lighting and camera work was super well done. Hope that translates to in game but I'm not seeing it so far.
hououinkyouma00
Member
Oh fuck off. This is nowhere near as bad as Concord. Marathon is simply a more Anime/Japanese take on Cyberpunk. Concord was just a bunch of 3rd rate artists making designs to fill a quota.