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Mario Kart 8 Deluxe |OT| Deluxe Salt

Z

Zemm

Member
TheGoreMagala said:
I would say that the items in Deluxe are much better balanced without the inclusion of double items and double item boxes, but I feel that the inclusion of both balances them even more. I don't know what you're referring to
Click to expand...

MK8 Wii U was clearly balanced around one item per player and it balanced the missile spam and rewarding people for driving well pretty much perfectly. With the two item system there are objectively way more missiles on the course at any one time and with how the system works (not being able to switch weapons manually, having to fire off the entire first slot to get to the 2nd item, the two item system feeling clunky as hell and completely un-nintendo like) the game feels less rewarding for driving well and just hoping you don't get smashed by a barrage of shell missiles.

The game was more fun for me on the Wii U because I feel it's better balanced and that this version is a big step back, probably my disappointment of the year so far. That's how much I dislike these new systems they've added to the online racing.

When i win I don't feel like I deserved to win, I feel like I was lucky I didn't get caught up in some insane missile spam earlier in the race, and when i lose I feel just as bad because I'm getting smashed by a constant barrage of shells. There's no feeling of satisfaction either way. This was not how MK8 Wii U felt.
 
F

FutureLarking

Member
L.O.R.D said:
here

RZZeJyp.gif
Click to expand...

This shit happens to me with almost constant occurence in the GAF room. Going public I have lovely times filled with happy thoughts and easiness. Then I join a GAF room and bullshit occurs.
 
S

Sigismundo

Member
I've always been under the impression that the way to go with online in previous MKs was as high speed and acceleration as you can manage (accel for the amount of shit that gets thrown at you). Still the case?
 
J

Jaded Alyx

Member
Zemm said:
MK8 Wii U was clearly balanced around one item per player and it balanced the missile spam and rewarding people for driving well pretty much perfectly. With the two item system there are objectively way more missiles on the course at any one time and with how the system works (not being able to switch weapons manually, having to fire off the entire first slot to get to the 2nd item, the two item system feeling clunky as hell and completely un-nintendo like) the game feels less rewarding for driving well and just hoping you don't get smashed by a barrage of shell missiles.

The game was more fun for me on the Wii U because I feel it's better balanced and that this version is a big step back, probably my disappointment of the year so far. That's how much I dislike these new systems they've added to the online racing.

When i win I don't feel like I deserved to win, I feel like I was lucky I didn't get caught up in some insane missile spam earlier in the race, and when i lose I feel just as bad because I'm getting smashed by a constant barrage of shells. There's no feeling of satisfaction either way. This was not how MK8 Wii U felt.
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, i agree with you 100%.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Zemm said:
MK8 Wii U was clearly balanced around one item per player and it balanced the missile spam and rewarding people for driving well pretty much perfectly. With the two item system there are objectively way more missiles on the course at any one time and with how the system works (not being able to switch weapons manually, having to fire off the entire first slot to get to the 2nd item, the two item system feeling clunky as hell and completely un-nintendo like) the game feels less rewarding for driving well and just hoping you don't get smashed by a barrage of shell missiles.

The game was more fun for me on the Wii U because I feel it's better balanced and that this version is a big step back, probably my disappointment of the year so far. That's how much I dislike these new systems they've added to the online racing.

When i win I don't feel like I deserved to win, I feel like I was lucky I didn't get caught up in some insane missile spam earlier in the race, and when i lose I feel just as bad because I'm getting smashed by a constant barrage of shells. There's no feeling of satisfaction either way. This was not how MK8 Wii U felt.
Click to expand...
I think the balance is even better now. GameXplain had a great analysis piece on how the double items improve MK8's balance.

I'm personally winning (and losing) just as much as before, but the double items give me a stronger sense of agency in pretty much every poll position, and the double item boxes being on sub-optimal routes creates an interesting risk-reward scenario that makes each race more exciting.

There have been other improvements to balance, as well: One YouTuber proved in time trials that the acceleration differentials are finally accurate in Deluxe, for example, so that a kart with 2.75 acceleration doesn't round down to 2 like it did on the WiiU. Fixes like that go a long way toward making the game play better. :)

The fact they found ways to improve the gameplay in MK8 when it was already one of the best-playing games ever is pretty much the most mindblowing thing about Deluxe to me.
 
T

TheGoreMagala

Member
If you're in first place and get hit with 3-8 shells, you were probable so far ahead that you required that many for your competition to catch up. And if that happens near the finish line, that's MARIO Kart. On the rare occasions so many get thrown at me, provided I'm not MARIO karted and hit with other items, I can still come back, especially if I block most of them
 
B

Blues1990

Member
What are your guys impressions on the new karts that were added in MK8D? I like the new Splatoon-themed ATV's, and the Koopa Klown Kart has some decent stats.
 
R

Redd

Member
It's like everyone saves their red shell until the final turn and shit hits the fan for the player in second.
 
Shadow Broker

Shadow Broker

Banned
friskykillface said:
Mario kart 8 deluxe [OT2] Hate the game
:p


I got hit by a blue shell and lightning and still won
With randoms

I can't even get to top 3 racing with gaf lol
Click to expand...


Dude I get murdered by randoms. It's always the same with them. Blue shell, 2 or 3 red shells, someone with a star power up, 10th place, lastly every item I get is a fucking mushroom or 3 mushrooms! I get no item support when I go from 1st to 10th. I haven't even raced with Gaf yet.
 
S

spekkeh

Banned
Zemm said:
MK8 Wii U was clearly balanced around one item per player and it balanced the missile spam and rewarding people for driving well pretty much perfectly. With the two item system there are objectively way more missiles on the course at any one time and with how the system works (not being able to switch weapons manually, having to fire off the entire first slot to get to the 2nd item, the two item system feeling clunky as hell and completely un-nintendo like) the game feels less rewarding for driving well and just hoping you don't get smashed by a barrage of shell missiles.

The game was more fun for me on the Wii U because I feel it's better balanced and that this version is a big step back, probably my disappointment of the year so far. That's how much I dislike these new systems they've added to the online racing.

When i win I don't feel like I deserved to win, I feel like I was lucky I didn't get caught up in some insane missile spam earlier in the race, and when i lose I feel just as bad because I'm getting smashed by a constant barrage of shells. There's no feeling of satisfaction either way. This was not how MK8 Wii U felt.
Click to expand...
Yeah very much agree. 2 items were a mistake, they're nothing but trash. It's gotten back to the lottery of party MKs, whereas MK8 nailed the balance of racing with some items.
 
T

TheGoreMagala

Member
GiantBreadbug said:
I don't know what MK8 Wii U y'all were playing, but it was most certainly not the happy sunshine land of item balance I'm hearing about.
Click to expand...

First place was pray you get a shell and hold it for dear life. Still wouldn't protect you from triple reds. In Deluxe the double boxes essentially guarantee a protective item, sometimes two. You can properly defend against triple reds on first now, though it takes positioning and skill. I feel in Deluxe it's simultaneously easier and harder to stay in first, varying on your skill and versatility. Plus, there are different first place "styles" now too. You can ask Preying Shark, I play an agressive first, throwing back greens and reds to hit those behind me and strategically placing bananas. Nobody would ever do that on Vanilla 8.
 
T

The Xtortionist

Member
TheGoreMagala said:
First place was pray you get a shell and hold it for dear life. Still wouldn't protect you from triple reds. In Deluxe the double boxes essentially guarantee a protective item, sometimes two. You can properly defend against triple reds on first now, though it takes positioning and skill. I feel in Deluxe it's simultaneously easier and harder to stay in first, varying on your skill and versatility. Plus, there are different first place "styles" now too. You can ask Preying Shark, I play an agressive first, throwing back greens and reds to hit those behind me and strategically placing bananas. Nobody would ever do that on Vanilla 8.
Click to expand...

Double item boxes also make it easier to reroll for super horns in 1st. If I'm 1st and carrying only one defense item, I'll dump it every time before a double item box since I'm almost guaranteed another with a chance of grabbing a horn.
 
Okami Haundo

Okami Haundo

Member
I'm slowly working my way back to being a "good" MK8 player. I just finished running through all the tracks in 100cc last night, so now I'm going to move up to 150cc. Maybe after beating that I'll be able to handle online races. Tried one a few nights ago and came in 7th without getting item spammed...

TheGoreMagala said:
First place was pray you get a shell and hold it for dear life. Still wouldn't protect you from triple reds. In Deluxe the double boxes essentially guarantee a protective item, sometimes two. You can properly defend against triple reds on first now, though it takes positioning and skill. I feel in Deluxe it's simultaneously easier and harder to stay in first, varying on your skill and versatility. Plus, there are different first place "styles" now too. You can ask Preying Shark, I play an agressive first, throwing back greens and reds to hit those behind me and strategically placing bananas. Nobody would ever do that on Vanilla 8.
Click to expand...

I agree with this fully! I remember hating 150cc in MK8 because you were destined to get coins and nothing else if you were in first. Now, I'm almost guaranteed to have at least one protective item if I play my cards right and go for the double-item boxes where possible.

The Boo item also seems like a nice balance against people spamming attacks and/or hoarding protection.
 
S

Sebastian Suola

Member
Zemm said:
MK8 Wii U was clearly balanced around one item per player and it balanced the missile spam and rewarding people for driving well pretty much perfectly. With the two item system there are objectively way more missiles on the course at any one time and with how the system works (not being able to switch weapons manually, having to fire off the entire first slot to get to the 2nd item, the two item system feeling clunky as hell and completely un-nintendo like) the game feels less rewarding for driving well and just hoping you don't get smashed by a barrage of shell missiles.

The game was more fun for me on the Wii U because I feel it's better balanced and that this version is a big step back, probably my disappointment of the year so far. That's how much I dislike these new systems they've added to the online racing.

When i win I don't feel like I deserved to win, I feel like I was lucky I didn't get caught up in some insane missile spam earlier in the race, and when i lose I feel just as bad because I'm getting smashed by a constant barrage of shells. There's no feeling of satisfaction either way. This was not how MK8 Wii U felt.
Click to expand...

It's funny, because I have a completely opposite view on this.

You have to get over the whole "deserved to win"-thingy. Or I mean you don't HAVE to get over it, but you would have a lot more fun if you did. Think of it like this: some games have more luck involved than others. I, for example, enjoy poker more than chess. Both are skill based games, but there's lot more luck involved in poker. It just means that the best player won't win every game, and that's actually pretty great if you can get over the fact of not winning everytime you "deserved" it.

To summarize: more items, more chaos, more randomness, more fun. For me, this is the essence of Mario Kart.
 
J

Jaded Alyx

Member
TheGoreMagala said:
First place was pray you get a shell and hold it for dear life. Still wouldn't protect you from triple reds. In Deluxe the double boxes essentially guarantee a protective item, sometimes two. You can properly defend against triple reds on first now, though it takes positioning and skill. I feel in Deluxe it's simultaneously easier and harder to stay in first, varying on your skill and versatility. Plus, there are different first place "styles" now too. You can ask Preying Shark, I play an agressive first, throwing back greens and reds to hit those behind me and strategically placing bananas. Nobody would ever do that on Vanilla 8.
Click to expand...

I have had several races where all while I was in first, I only received coins. Even from double item boxes. No joke.
 
ThatStupidLion

ThatStupidLion

Member
My copy should be arriving today!! Didnt play on wii u so give me a few days to learn the ropes and tracks and ill be playong with yall in no time
 
T

TheGoreMagala

Member
Burdmayn said:
I'm slowly working my way back to being a "good" MK8 player. I just finished running through all the tracks in 100cc last night, so now I'm going to move up to 150cc. Maybe after beating that I'll be able to handle online races. Tried one a few nights ago and came in 7th without getting item spammed...



I agree with this fully! I remember hating 150cc in MK8 because you were destined to get coins and nothing else if you were in first. Now, I'm almost guaranteed to have at least one protective item if I play my cards right and go for the double-item boxes where possible.

The Boo item also seems like a nice balance against people spamming attacks and/or hoarding protection.
Click to expand...

Ah yes! I feel like the Boo also adds to balance as well. Adding protection for a while and stealing an item from someone in front of you is like a partial lightning strike for one person. And while I admit at times you can get MARIO Karted and have your mushrooms stolen within grass, the Boo ensures that the person in first (at least from experience Boos prioritize first place) will have to adapt to a situation and makes it possible to be defenseless or less defended for a while, offering a chance to others. Meanwhile when it strikes anyone else in the middle, it forces them to rethink their strategy and play defensively for a bit until they get another item.
 
F

Forkball

Member
The double items are way better balanced than I imagined. It's both easier to stay in first due to the likelihood of having a defensive item or a reserve coin in case of a blue shell, and catch up depending on how you use your items. You can set up for a big push easier instead of praying you get a bullet bill.
 
P

PreyingShark

Member
Jaded Alyx said:
I have had several races where all while I was in first, I only received coins. Even from double item boxes. No joke.
Click to expand...
That's a known bug. Item lag can do that except not only is it a lot more common this time, but item lag can target only specific people now for no fucking reason other than always lagging up the whole room like it did before.

So you can be stuck getting coins while 2nd is still able to get shit like triple reds. That didn't happen in vanilla.
 
G

gypsie

Member
Could probably google but thought you guys would know - Any reason for me to do every cup on 50cc & 100cc? I find them both really really easy but if there is some cool shit I'll do it, if not I'll skip to 150cc.
 
J

Jazzem

Member
Been doing a bunch of time trials, I forgot how suited they were to quick sessions on a portable system. Staff ghosts are generally pretty easy, but I could see myself going back to improve runs, especially when comparing to friends' ghosts online.

Forkball said:
The double items are way better balanced than I imagined. It's both easier to stay in first due to the likelihood of having a defensive item or a reserve coin in case of a blue shell, and catch up depending on how you use your items. You can set up for a big push easier instead of praying you get a bullet bill.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm coming to this conclusion as well, you always feel better equipped compared to MK8 Vanilla regardless of your position. Is a nice relief as I was worried the balance would be out of whack
 
G

Griss

Member
Zemm said:
MK8 Wii U was clearly balanced around one item per player and it balanced the missile spam and rewarding people for driving well pretty much perfectly. With the two item system there are objectively way more missiles on the course at any one time and with how the system works (not being able to switch weapons manually, having to fire off the entire first slot to get to the 2nd item, the two item system feeling clunky as hell and completely un-nintendo like) the game feels less rewarding for driving well and just hoping you don't get smashed by a barrage of shell missiles.

The game was more fun for me on the Wii U because I feel it's better balanced and that this version is a big step back, probably my disappointment of the year so far. That's how much I dislike these new systems they've added to the online racing.

When i win I don't feel like I deserved to win, I feel like I was lucky I didn't get caught up in some insane missile spam earlier in the race, and when i lose I feel just as bad because I'm getting smashed by a constant barrage of shells. There's no feeling of satisfaction either way. This was not how MK8 Wii U felt.
Click to expand...

Damn, this was my exact fear when I saw double items during the reveal. I know it's a controversial opinion but I thought the item balance in MK8 vanilla was nearly flawless, and struck a perfect balance between getting lucky vs being good.

Even in MK8 vanilla the person who got out into first would win about 50% of races and the middle of the pack was a bad place to be (this was at about 6,000-8,000 level), but with the person in front now having TWO ways of defending themselves, plus more chances for horns, and the pack now having double the spam, I can't see how the change makes it anything but worse.

Would love to hear from those who think it's an improvement. But if you're not coming from a place where you're accounting for the inherent advantage the guy in first has then I doubt I'll agree with you.

Forkball said:
The double items are way better balanced than I imagined. It's both easier to stay in first due to the likelihood of having a defensive item or a reserve coin in case of a blue shell, and catch up depending on how you use your items. You can set up for a big push easier instead of praying you get a bullet bill.
Click to expand...

But 'easier to stay in first' was the last thing MK8 vanilla needed so I don't get your post. There was no easier position to maintain than first in MK8 vanilla.
 
T

TheGoreMagala

Member
Jaded Alyx said:
I have had several races where all while I was in first, I only received coins. Even from double item boxes. No joke.
Click to expand...

That's more of an exception, not the rule. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've gotten two coins from a double box in one hand, and I've never gotten only coins in a race.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
TheGoreMagala said:
First place was pray you get a shell and hold it for dear life. Still wouldn't protect you from triple reds. In Deluxe the double boxes essentially guarantee a protective item, sometimes two. You can properly defend against triple reds on first now, though it takes positioning and skill. I feel in Deluxe it's simultaneously easier and harder to stay in first, varying on your skill and versatility. Plus, there are different first place "styles" now too. You can ask Preying Shark, I play an agressive first, throwing back greens and reds to hit those behind me and strategically placing bananas. Nobody would ever do that on Vanilla 8.
Click to expand...

I think Deluxe mainly makes playing in 1st more fun. You have more options with your items and your routes which is good. Though I did get double item box coins three times in a row yesterday, lol.

But I'm kinda iffy on it everywhere else, the game does feel like way more of a clusterfuck in the middle, when it already did before. I swear boo is rigged to pull mushrooms from players who are already lined up to take a shortcut(or in the midst of it), the double item boxes impact the middle in the sense that you basically are just dumping everything quickly to try and highroll on the next box for something strong, which can be amplified by the lack of swapping when you might have something you actually need going second, so I'll burn through a fireflower to get to my mushroom to hit the upcoming shortcut, things like that. I've found myself placing at much more varying ranks in general outside of my control. The 'mario karting' where you barely regain control and get hit again, stuff like that. I've still noticed the player in first can frequently pull very far ahead which was the issue in MK8 normally.

I've noticed bombs are more frequent in the higher ranks, especially in first as a sketchy defense item which is interesting. And I do really like the addition of pink boosts.
 
B

Blackthorn

"hello?" "this is vagina"
Sebastian Suola said:
It's funny, because I have a completely opposite view on this.

You have to get over the whole "deserved to win"-thingy. Or I mean you don't HAVE to get over it, but you would have a lot more fun if you did. Think of it like this: some games have more luck involved than others. I, for example, enjoy poker more than chess. Both are skill based games, but there's lot more luck involved in poker. It just means that the best player won't win every game, and that's actually pretty great if you can get over the fact of not winning everytime you "deserved" it.

To summarize: more items, more chaos, more randomness, more fun. For me, this is the essence of Mario Kart.
Click to expand...
This.

Many great games are a balance between luck and skill. Sometimes luck will ruin your game, sometimes you'll have enough skill to balance out bad luck, sometimes you'll have both luck AND skill on your side and feel like a god.

Nothing wrong with not liking that style of game, but Mario Kart isn't broken or unbalanced, it works exactly as intended and it's why so many millions of people find it so fun.
 
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