Marvel's Spider Man Remastered is coming to PC on August 12, 2022 (also Miles Morales Fall 2022)

VFXVeteran said:
Didn't several PS gamers declare that Spiderman MM couldn't be implemented on PC because of the required SSD on PS5 for streaming in data?? What will their excuse be when R&C gets announced for PC? :pie_thinking:
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Why don't you ask those specific "PS gamers"?
 
Loved playing both these games on my ps4 pro and then again on ps5, although if this comes out on pc with a even better graphics options then the ps5 then can see myself getting rid of my ps5 as can easily wait 2yrs after a game release for a superior version of a playstation game
 
Topher said:
I would think it would work but they would have to add in loading screens.
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That would really depend on how they implement it (i'm assuming you're talking about how MM gets in and out of his hideout).
It should be possible even with an HDD if they leverage other components.
 
The takes on twitter are insane, in here too.

People are like "no point owning a PS anymore"...the game is 4 years old.....and miles is a very short, albeit fun, experience that's more like a big DLC.

I'm sure as fuck not waiting 4 years, hell even 1 year, to play Spiderman on PC - screw that.
 
SmokedMeat said:
I think it's definitely going to happen, once all of the porting is caught up. There's no benefit to having an exclusivity period, when they can bring in more money selling to another large audience. Sony sees PC as an extension of the PlayStation brand, not competition.
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Then why are they waiting? Why not do it right now and make the announcement that god of war ragnarok will also be launching on PC?
 
Topher said:
I would think it would work but they would have to add in loading screens.
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bCyed3K.gif
 
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tmlDan said:
The takes on twitter are insane, in here too.

People are like "no point owning a PS anymore"...the game is 4 years old.....and miles is a very short, albeit fun, experience that's more like a big DLC.

I'm sure as fuck not waiting 4 years, hell even 1 year, to play Spiderman on PC - screw that.
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I would. If SONY would announce today that all their games will eventually be ported to PC, I would honestly sell my PS5. It's only collecting dust between big SONY first party releases anyway.
 
Ulysses 31 said:
And surely it will support DirectStorage too.
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It might, but i don't think it would even need it. All games released so far that need or recommend a SSD (PS5 or not) don't really need ultra high data transfer speeds. Even the UE5 demos who supposedly utilise them to their fullest potention still have transfer speeds on the mb/s range.
 
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VFXVeteran said:
No they don't. The data being streamed isn't going to overload the rendering pipeline at all. It'll be similar to the UE5 demo being run on all platforms without SSD.
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Guilty_AI said:
That would really depend on how they implement it (i'm assuming you're talking about how MM gets in and out of his hideout).
It should be possible even with an HDD if they leverage other components.
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Interesting. Then what is the point of RTX IO, DirectStorage, etc.? Or SSD at all? Isn't faster loading the whole idea?

SoloKingRobert said:
bCyed3K.gif
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Never said I did. The words "I would think" implies being not being sure.
 
Topher said:
Interesting. Then what is the point of RTX IO, DirectStorage, etc.? Or SSD at all? Isn't faster loading the whole idea?
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Same point as upgrading from a RTX 20XX to a RTX 30XX 🤷‍♂️.
Both play the latest RT games just fine and will last you for the rest of the gen, but improvements are still improvements.
 
At the end of the day, PC gamers are happy more games are coming. I dont think there's any who are pissed Sony games are coming.

For PS fans, if you're one of them who are pissed PC gamers are getting multi-year old ports, who cares? Even if it's day one at some point, why does it matter? Think of it, are you really going to dump your PS and buy an RTX 3080 PC? Probably not. So why do you care? How many of you would be aiming for a high end PC from the get go without spending money on a $500 console if you knew these games would be available on PC? Not that many. You were probably aiming for a Playstation no matter what.

People still buy Xbox and day one launches have happened for years. And everyone knows a good PC rig will play it better than Xbox. I dont see Xbox gamers throwing up their arms.

Historically (aside from this shit Sony 900e TV I bought), I buy my electronics as Panasonic. I cant anymore as it seems Panasonic doesn't even sell TVs in Canada anymore. But when I was buying everything Panasonic, I want all my gear to play all media, and I have ZERO anxiety if every other brand plays it too even if some brands might have better picture quality (like old Pioneer brand). In fact I want it that way because if I get another brand, I can still play the media. Why the hell would I want Panasonic to get some kind of exclusive deal on media? Nobody does that in TV/stereo/media player electronics. Sony doesn't even do that and they are the only electronics maker that has TV/movie studio content. Sony wants their media to be bought and played by all other LG and Samsung players too.

I go to Walmart a lot since there is one within walking distance to me. Walmart gets new flavours of chips ad whatever other junk food fast. I've spent more money there than any other store. Why the hell would I want new snacks to only be available at Walmart? Because I've invested a lot of money there so I want to feel special? And no other store deserves it? I want it available anywhere so I can buy that new product at any mainstream store.

Put down your corporate shilling viewpoint protecting balance sheets. Think of it as a gamer and consumer.
 
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OsirisBlack said:
So I should stick to consoles because I can't get into Gears 5 or because you said so? Because if it's the latter I have a few bills you can pay if you would like your opinion to mean anything. Enjoy your day.
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No. I think you should stick to console, because well, it saves you the trouble. PC has got many driver problems and shits that you wouldn't want to handle and its better for you to stick to console.
 
Guilty_AI said:
Same point as upgrading from a RTX 20XX to a RTX 30XX 🤷‍♂️.
Both play the latest RT games just fine and will last you for the rest of the gen, but improvements are still improvements.
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying. So the distinction that should be made here is between a game not being able to run without the SSD and a game simply performing better. Obviously SSD improves performance and at the very least reduces the amount of time staring at loading screens. As TheGodfather07 TheGodfather07 pointed out, Miles Morales runs on PS4 so no idea why that was even brought up. Insomniac devs, however, did make some lofty claims about R&C requiring PS5's IO. So if that game ever comes to PC, those comments can be further scrutinized.
 
MidGenRefresh said:
I would. If SONY would announce today that all their games will eventually be ported to PC, I would honestly sell my PS5. It's only collecting dust between big SONY first party releases anyway.
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I'd rather buy it twice, once to play it and enjoy the story and then buy it again for PC mods.

With how the world is you could die at any moment, I'm not waiting for anything.
 
tmlDan said:
I'd rather buy it twice, once to play it and enjoy the story and then buy it again for PC mods.

With how the world is you could die at any moment, I'm not waiting for anything.
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When you're dead I'm pretty sure you won't care that you didn't play Uncharted 6 or God of War 7. But I get it, the fear of missing out is a real thing.
 
a multicultural team of v said:
It feels like the opposite though, there is no benefit to them releasing on day 1. PC gamers will buy the games no matter how late the ports are, and day 1 on PC would mean all of the people in this thread saying they will double dip would only buy one copy instead of two.
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I'd say the cannibalization of day and date sales would be far outweighed by the numbers of PC buyers who don't want a PlayStation.
Plus PC allows Sony to put their games in territories where PlayStation has little to no presence.
 
a multicultural team of v said:
It feels like the opposite though, there is no benefit to them releasing on day 1. PC gamers will buy the games no matter how late the ports are, and day 1 on PC would mean all of the people in this thread saying they will double dip would only buy one copy instead of two.
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The reason is money. PC has gotten so big that it rivals or exceeds playstation in sales at release and almost universally outdoes xbox, by a large margin. Ubisoft had quarters where PC acounted for more revenue than xbox and switch combined. Releasing too late doesnt give you that much cash, as evidence by sony's own finacial reports. A million for God of War in 2 months is very good for a port that was made mostly by 4 people, but what if instead of one million at 50 bucks they could sell 5 million in 2 weeks at 60 bucks ?

PC audiences and console ones dont overlap. Microsoft is selling more consoles than ever in its existence and every game is on pc day one. Not only is every microsoft game on PC day one, but there are more games on PC than on xbox. Age of Empires 2 and 4 are pc exclusives. Gears Tactics was launched PC only. Flight Sim was PC only for a year. Yet they're selling more consoles than at any point since they've been in the console business.
 
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Topher said:
Insomniac devs, however, did make some lofty claims about R&C requiring PS5's IO. So if that game ever comes to PC, those comments can be further scrutinized.
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You can't really take this kind of claim at face value. Its easy to say "they're devs so they know!" but devs also have their own bubbles and biased perceptions, not to mention there are hundreds of them working on a single game and they aren't a single hivemind, you just listened to one or two of those devs.

As of now, its a fact that the way the game is designed doesn't make it impossible for it to run it off an HDD, though it naturally leverages a SSD for better performance and maybe doesn't bother doing some of the 'tricks' that would be necessary to implement to make it run exactly as is from an HDD.
What needs to be seen and tested is really just how much QoL is lost if we swap it to a HDD, though that would also depends on the lenghts the people porting the game would be willing to go.
 
TheGodfather07 said:
Then why are they waiting? Why not do it right now and make the announcement that god of war ragnarok will also be launching on PC?
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You can't just snap your fingers for an instant PC version. Their expansion into the PC marketplace is recent, and ports take time.

It wouldn't surprise me if currently unannounced PS5 games are also in development for PC, though.
 
SmokedMeat said:
I think it's definitely going to happen, once all of the porting is caught up. There's no benefit to having an exclusivity period, when they can bring in more money selling to another large audience.
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Depends who makes the decisions and what data they use to do so.
I know for a fact certain large publishers have continuously (for decades) delayed (not for multiple years, but still) their PC releases on the basis of things like piracy stats etc.
But if I had to guess - Sony will not do day & date until they have their own PC portal/store/service-front presence (which could well be where Bungie acquisition really comes in). That would make it a proper flywheel effect (not just adding together balance sheets) and proper expansion of PS platform beyond hw.

It's not like this is even a recent thing - writing has been on the wall for over a decade with certain companies signalling the same thing (MS in particular) they just dragged their feet REALLLLY slowly getting there.
 
Guilty_AI said:
You can't really take this kind of claim at face value. Its easy to say "they're devs so they know!" but devs also have their own bubbles and biased perceptions, not to mention there are hundreds of them working on a single game and they aren't a single hivemind, you just listened to one or two of those devs.

As of now, its a fact that the way the game is designed doesn't make it impossible for it to run it off an HDD, though it naturally leverages a SSD for better performance and maybe doesn't bother doing some of the 'tricks' that would be necessary to implement to make it run exactly as is from an HDD.
What needs to be seen and tested is really just how much QoL is lost if we swap it to a HDD, though that would also depends on the lenghts the people porting the game would be willing to go.
Click to expand...

Well I'm going to defer to folks who have first hand knowledge ahead of others in most cases. I think that just makes sense. That isn't to suggest these people are infallible and their views are absolute facts, but frankly, this is just a video game forum filled with folks who often like to talk as if they are experts. I'll be the first one to admit that I only have an enthusiasts understanding of any of this. I've played Ratchet and Clank and the shifting between worlds is very impressive. So if that can be achieved on a PC with a standard HDD in the exact same way then I'll be the first guy to point at the Insomniac dev and call bullshit as well as say " Guilty_AI Guilty_AI knew what he was talking about". Trust, but verify is a good approach, I think.
 
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VFXVeteran said:
Didn't several PS gamers declare that Spiderman MM couldn't be implemented on PC because of the required SSD on PS5 for streaming in data?? What will their excuse be when R&C gets announced for PC? :pie_thinking:
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You dummy, Miles Morales is a PS4 cross gen game. Not the same as R&C.
 
VFXVeteran said:
That's not true. Days Gone had a better GI solution. HZD had better texture filtering, larger LOD, DLSS, etc.. These aren't just straight ports.
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Technically yes. I do not argue about that.
I am just saying that despite all the fancy new "upgrades", I don't find the difference to be that big. I certainly would have a hard time differentiating version without direct comparison.
 
Spider-Man was kind of the final frontier in terms of Sony and the PC platform. I actually thought they'd hold that one back and not port it over. Now all bets really are off in terms of Sony exclusives. Good times for a PC gamer.
 
Wonder if I'll be able to run these on my Steam Deck 🤔

Horizon, God of War, and Days Gone all deck verified.

I have a good feeling!
 
Fafalada said:
Depends who makes the decisions and what data they use to do so.
I know for a fact certain large publishers have continuously (for decades) delayed (not for multiple years, but still) their PC releases on the basis of things like piracy stats etc.
But if I had to guess - Sony will not do day & date until they have their own PC portal/store/service-front presence (which could well be where Bungie acquisition really comes in). That would make it a proper flywheel effect (not just adding together balance sheets) and proper expansion of PS platform beyond hw.

It's not like this is even a recent thing - writing has been on the wall for over a decade with certain companies signalling the same thing (MS in particular) they just dragged their feet REALLLLY slowly getting there.
Click to expand...

It is a dangerous war of the storefront. It might be that the age of the console is almost over, but for Sony all the extra money they make having day and date exclusives on PC puts at risk the % they get on the services they sell to console users and % fee they get from third parties. So mmmh… we will see I guess.
 
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Velcro Fly said:
Wonder if I'll be able to run these on my Steam Deck 🤔

Horizon, God of War, and Days Gone all deck verified.

I have a good feeling!
Click to expand...
yup, 800p/30 fps with ps4 equivalent settings should be doable

and its 30 fps was very smooth, last time i played. should be as much as smooth on PC with steam's gamepad+ stellar native framelimiter of their engine + motion blur, s

if it supports async+dx12/vulkan, steam deck should perform like a ps4. but if it end up likes gow with dx11 and no async and no low-level API, it should perform a bit worse, so no 1080p/30
 
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Tiago Rodrigues said:
I wonder how funny it will be for them if we ever read the news that PlayStation Studios is doing better as a PC publisher than MS...?
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Not interested in console warring because I think it is awesome news for Sony to be taking this step and that more gamers can play these games. But I do think there is room for a friendly discussion on just how impactful the MS move to PC has been for them. I don't know if the average game fan realizes how big the gap is between the MS and Sony in terms of PC forward games and game titles that are appealling to PC users.

God of War hasn't broken 1,000,000 sales on Steam in a nearly six month release. And it is very common that the bulk of sales of titles like this occur in the first 90 days of release. Not saying it won't continue to do well. It will, incrementally. And at some point in 3-5 years God of War will definitely be over 2-3m in sales. We know this. It's an amazing game.

But by comparison, Sea of Thieves (by no means a God of War level game in terms of quality or presentation) is somewhere around 4-6m sold (and we know how SteamDB estimates can be fickle, God of War's low end estimate on SteamDB ended up being close to what the Sony reported sales were. By comparison, Sea of Thieves low end estimate in sales is 4.4-5.4m. Low end). Sea of Thieves is also vastly more popular with daily peak in-game players counts 5-6 times that of God of War even now, two years after it released on Steam. I mean, again, I'm not trying to console war but even Grounded a game that is in Alpha release on Steam from Obsidian has a more consistent daily peak in-game users than God of War by almost 30% for the last few months. Forza Horizon 5 launched a month before God of War on Steam and currently has almost 7 times the active in-game users. Forza Horizon 4 has more active users than Forza Horizon 5 currently and again almost 7-8 times the active users of God of War.

I don't know if Sony has the games that can achieve that consistent level of users right now. You need games that are more than single-player playthroughs and I think that is a massive reason Sony is moving towards GAAS and PC. Their titles, even the VERY BEST of them, are 40-80 hour playthroughs and then drop and forget. Players remember the game when putting together your favorite games of the generation but beyond that the game goes to the shelf for most players. And there's nothing wrong with that in general but I think the industry is moving towards having a few tentpole franchises that are regular plays for a portion of users. And it's not just 4-5 MS games. It's basically a large amount of the MS catalog of games are being played more than God of War and other high quality, highly decorated singleplayer Sony first party titles.

And to wrap this up, yes, Spider-man is going to be MASSIVE on Steam. Insane quality game, openworld. I think it is THE Sony first party title to truly make a mark on PC and have some staying power. But it might be the only one. And that's where Sony's GAAS and focus on replayability in future titles will start being seen I believe.

Sources:
God of War: https://steamdb.info/app/1593500/graphs/
Days Gone: https://steamdb.info/app/1259420/graphs/
Horizon Zero Dawn: https://steamdb.info/app/1151640/graphs/
State of Decay 2: https://steamdb.info/app/495420/graphs/
Forza Horizon 4: https://steamdb.info/app/1293830/graphs/
Forza Horizon 5: https://steamdb.info/app/1551360/graphs/
Grounded: https://steamdb.info/app/962130/graphs/
Sea of Thieves: https://steamdb.info/app/1172620/graphs/
Halo Infinite: https://steamdb.info/app/1240440/graphs/
Halo MCC: https://steamdb.info/app/976730/graphs/

A chart to better see what I'm talking about, sorted by 24 Hour Peak in-game Steam users:

URL]img]
DdQzbhv.png
 
also, as a guy who's came straight from consoles to PC, here's my thoughts on the whole ease of use thing
it's really overblown and not that big of a deal as people say.... on the software side. I have had a few games that had controller problems, but that's what joy2key is for. There were some games that didn't launch, but they were usually the fringe stuff you couldn't get on steam (Fangames, mods, pirated games, older abandonware, etc) which most people besides me probably aren't interested in to begin with.

i feel that for PC you need to be more interested in being kind of educated in HARDWARE. doing your research helps a lot. Coming from a guy who had to make multiple adjustments to his setup and extra purchases just so it can work (and even then, it's not perfect. There's a bottleneck i need to get addressed and the airflow is suboptimal), if there's any hurdle to PC gaming that makes it less convenient than console, it's getting into it in the first place. it can be very fun to make your own PC and sit back and look at the creation you made with your own hands. But unless you've planned out your parts perfectly, and known what CPUs, motherboards, cases you planned to get, it's less prone to working than a prebuilt. And with prebuilts its very easy to get fleeced out of your money and spend too much on a shitty computer that will make you run back to console immediately. There are many console fanboys who bought a shitty prebuilt PC, got annoyed by how horrible it was, and then proceeded to run back to console and badmouth the platform. Please, use sites like PC partpicker and watch many PC guides on youtube.
 
Bladed Thesis said:
Not interested in console warring because I think it is awesome news for Sony to be taking this step and that more gamers can play these games. But I do think there is room for a friendly discussion on just how impactful the MS move to PC has been for them. I don't know if the average game fan realizes how big the gap is between the MS and Sony in terms of PC forward games and game titles that are appealling to PC users.

God of War hasn't broken 1,000,000 sales on Steam in a nearly six month release. And it is very common that the bulk of sales of titles like this occur in the first 90 days of release. Not saying it won't continue to do well. It will, incrementally. And at some point in 3-5 years God of War will definitely be over 2-3m in sales. We know this. It's an amazing game.

But by comparison, Sea of Thieves (by no means a God of War level game in terms of quality or presentation) is somewhere around 4-6m sold (and we know how SteamDB estimates can be fickle, God of War's low end estimate on SteamDB ended up being close to what the Sony reported sales were. By comparison, Sea of Thieves low end estimate in sales is 4.4-5.4m. Low end). Sea of Thieves is also vastly more popular with daily peak in-game players counts 5-6 times that of God of War even now, two years after it released on Steam. I mean, again, I'm not trying to console war but even Grounded a game that is in Alpha release on Steam from Obsidian has a more consistent daily peak in-game users than God of War by almost 30% for the last few months. Forza Horizon 5 launched a month before God of War on Steam and currently has almost 7 times the active in-game users. Forza Horizon 4 has more active users than Forza Horizon 5 currently and again almost 7-8 times the active users of God of War.

I don't know if Sony has the games that can achieve that consistent level of users right now. You need games that are more than single-player playthroughs and I think that is a massive reason Sony is moving towards GAAS and PC. Their titles, even the VERY BEST of them, are 40-80 hour playthroughs and then drop and forget. Players remember the game when putting together your favorite games of the generation but beyond that the game goes to the shelf for most players. And there's nothing wrong with that in general but I think the industry is moving towards having a few tentpole franchises that are regular plays for a portion of users. And it's not just 4-5 MS games. It's basically a large amount of the MS catalog of games are being played more than God of War and other high quality, highly decorated singleplayer Sony first party titles.

And to wrap this up, yes, Spider-man is going to be MASSIVE on Steam. Insane quality game, openworld. I think it is THE Sony first party title to truly make a mark on PC and have some staying power. But it might be the only one. And that's where Sony's GAAS and focus on replayability in future titles will start being seen I believe.

Sources:
God of War: https://steamdb.info/app/1593500/graphs/
Days Gone: https://steamdb.info/app/1259420/graphs/
Horizon Zero Dawn: https://steamdb.info/app/1151640/graphs/
State of Decay 2: https://steamdb.info/app/495420/graphs/
Forza Horizon 4: https://steamdb.info/app/1293830/graphs/
Forza Horizon 5: https://steamdb.info/app/1551360/graphs/
Grounded: https://steamdb.info/app/962130/graphs/
Sea of Thieves: https://steamdb.info/app/1172620/graphs/
Halo Infinite: https://steamdb.info/app/1240440/graphs/
Halo MCC: https://steamdb.info/app/976730/graphs/

A chart to better see what I'm talking about, sorted by 24 Hour Peak in-game Steam users:

URL]img]
DdQzbhv.png
Click to expand...

Nice thoughtful read. In addition to Spider-Man, I also think GT7 will also be huge.
 
Bladed Thesis said:
Not interested in console warring because I think it is awesome news for Sony to be taking this step and that more gamers can play these games. But I do think there is room for a friendly discussion on just how impactful the MS move to PC has been for them. I don't know if the average game fan realizes how big the gap is between the MS and Sony in terms of PC forward games and game titles that are appealling to PC users.

God of War hasn't broken 1,000,000 sales on Steam in a nearly six month release. And it is very common that the bulk of sales of titles like this occur in the first 90 days of release. Not saying it won't continue to do well. It will, incrementally. And at some point in 3-5 years God of War will definitely be over 2-3m in sales. We know this. It's an amazing game.

But by comparison, Sea of Thieves (by no means a God of War level game in terms of quality or presentation) is somewhere around 4-6m sold (and we know how SteamDB estimates can be fickle, God of War's low end estimate on SteamDB ended up being close to what the Sony reported sales were. By comparison, Sea of Thieves low end estimate in sales is 4.4-5.4m. Low end). Sea of Thieves is also vastly more popular with daily peak in-game players counts 5-6 times that of God of War even now, two years after it released on Steam. I mean, again, I'm not trying to console war but even Grounded a game that is in Alpha release on Steam from Obsidian has a more consistent daily peak in-game users than God of War by almost 30% for the last few months. Forza Horizon 5 launched a month before God of War on Steam and currently has almost 7 times the active in-game users. Forza Horizon 4 has more active users than Forza Horizon 5 currently and again almost 7-8 times the active users of God of War.

I don't know if Sony has the games that can achieve that consistent level of users right now. You need games that are more than single-player playthroughs and I think that is a massive reason Sony is moving towards GAAS and PC. Their titles, even the VERY BEST of them, are 40-80 hour playthroughs and then drop and forget. Players remember the game when putting together your favorite games of the generation but beyond that the game goes to the shelf for most players. And there's nothing wrong with that in general but I think the industry is moving towards having a few tentpole franchises that are regular plays for a portion of users. And it's not just 4-5 MS games. It's basically a large amount of the MS catalog of games are being played more than God of War and other high quality, highly decorated singleplayer Sony first party titles.

And to wrap this up, yes, Spider-man is going to be MASSIVE on Steam. Insane quality game, openworld. I think it is THE Sony first party title to truly make a mark on PC and have some staying power. But it might be the only one. And that's where Sony's GAAS and focus on replayability in future titles will start being seen I believe.

Sources:
God of War: https://steamdb.info/app/1593500/graphs/
Days Gone: https://steamdb.info/app/1259420/graphs/
Horizon Zero Dawn: https://steamdb.info/app/1151640/graphs/
State of Decay 2: https://steamdb.info/app/495420/graphs/
Forza Horizon 4: https://steamdb.info/app/1293830/graphs/
Forza Horizon 5: https://steamdb.info/app/1551360/graphs/
Grounded: https://steamdb.info/app/962130/graphs/
Sea of Thieves: https://steamdb.info/app/1172620/graphs/
Halo Infinite: https://steamdb.info/app/1240440/graphs/
Halo MCC: https://steamdb.info/app/976730/graphs/

A chart to better see what I'm talking about, sorted by 24 Hour Peak in-game Steam users:

URL]img]
DdQzbhv.png
Click to expand...
Hum...why are you comparing single-player only games that release 4 years later on PC with games released on PC day one with multiplayer modes, live service games, games with multiple content updates throughout the years etc?
The games Sony releases are games with a much shorter life-span than those MS games and also much older. They were basically an after-though.

Horizon and God of War released on PC after selling 20M on PS. Days Gone was like 10M as well. How much have those MS games sold throughout the years overall? :)

I'd wait for those live service games and games Sony may release day one on PC for a fair comparison.
 
But wasnt the word that pcmr salivate at PS Exclusives? Based on sales, doesnt seems so.
 
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