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Max Payne 3 is a bad game [very long rant]

Chinner

Banned
i was ready to reply but then i saw it was you, carry on lol

being serious. the writing in rdr is pretty shit were characters dont actually talk to each other, but at each other where they're just used as mouth pieces to express generic philosophical views which are supposed to move you. i don't really get to know any character, i just get to know their political views.

it's a bit like that scene from the monty pythons holy grail with the peasants
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA
 
The writing was more that solid. Stop exaggerating.

It was terrible just from the hours I played of it and I've been spoiled to what happens later which just sounds even dumber. What annoyed me the most was the contrast to what he was saying in cutscenes to then in game

"I'm such a terrible person, wish I could get out of this"

*shoots 100 duders in the face and says something funny about it*

"I take druuuugs and drink alcohol because I feel bad*

*Shoots another dude in the face, finds pills and makes silly one liner about his addiction*
 

KalBalboa

Banned
It was terrible just from the hours I played of it and I've been spoiled to what happens later which just sounds even dumber.

"I'm such a terrible person, wish I could get out of this"

*shoots dude in the face and says something funny*

"I take druuuugs and drink alcohol because I feel bad*

*Shoots another dude in the face, makes silly one liner about popping pills*

You must really hate nearly all video game stories if this got to you that much.
 

Ciastek3214

Junior Member
playing differently doesn't mean it's bad

franchising does hold back design. it also skews perception and reception of titles

deus ex: invisible war
hitman: absolution
halo wars
splinter cell:double agent/conviction
resident evil 6
shadowrun

You know if they wanted to do something different, (which I'm pretty sure is not the case with Max Payne 3, Rockstar is just horrible at making third person shooter games) then they could've made different IP or something, you know, they wouldn't be judged as sequels, and no one would complain about there being too little new IPs. Also the games I played on this list suck whether or not they have their franchises name in their names.
 

Pachimari

Member
I'm only like 2 hours into Max Payne 3 but I have a very hard time getting into it. He is now unlikable and me too don't like to control this character. I'll give it a shot again.
 
It was terrible just from the hours I played of it and I've been spoiled to what happens later which just sounds even dumber. What annoyed me the most was the contrast to what he was saying in cutscenes to then in game

"I'm such a terrible person, wish I could get out of this"

*shoots 100 duders in the face and says something funny about it*

"I take druuuugs and drink alcohol because I feel bad*

*Shoots another dude in the face, finds pills and makes silly one liner about his addiction*
Gotta love this. You can narrow down every story so it sounds stupid. Give me a break.
 

vidcons

Banned
So wait, the problem isn't that those games were horribly dumbed down to chase the lowest common denominator (in some cases at least) but that they were in an already established franchise that was known for quality? Am I reading that right?

it's a loss of complete control and forces creators to create someone else's idea

i'm not saying deus ex: iw would have been a good game, but it's not any better for having deus ex concepts, ideas, and settings in it

same with the rest of titles

You know if they wanted to do something different, (which I'm pretty sure is not the case with Max Payne 3, Rockstar is just horrible at making third person shooter games) then they could've made different IP or something, you know, they wouldn't be judged as sequels, and no one would complain about there being too little new IPs. Also the games I played on this list suck whether or not they have their franchises name in their names.
k cool guy
 

Ciastek3214

Junior Member
Yeah, you don't need to write an essay in support of every perspective. If someone thought Max Payne 3 was good they don't need to submit evidence or proof or whatever, especially to satisfy someone on a message board.

It is a discussion forum, you know.
 

MormaPope

Banned
It was terrible just from the hours I played of it and I've been spoiled to what happens later which just sounds even dumber.

"I'm such a terrible person, wish I could get out of this"

*shoots dude in the face and says something funny*

"I take druuuugs and drink alcohol because I feel bad*

*Shoots another dude in the face, makes silly one liner about popping pills*

Max Payne in MP1 had the personality of a C-Grade comic book hero, Max Payne in MP2 had the personality of a 2x4.

Max was drastically better as a character in MP3, it's sorta weird how people think the opposite.

Most video games stories aren't force feeding me the bullshit with unskipable cutscenes. But no, I'm not that picky with my games stories, Max Payne 3's however bothered me.

I'd take abundant cutscenes covering load times over blank loading screens every couple of minutes any day, any time. Seamless gameplay is something that isn't done enough.
 

dmshaposv

Member
the gun play was a step down then the streamlined mechanics of the first two, but fuck the cutscenes.

The cutscenes (on top of being unskippable) were horrible. The same shit again and again. I stopped the game after the first few chapters cuz it got so monotonous. And lord those horrible color filters.
 
Don't play it on hard.

No game is perfect (R* combat is always sloppy as all hell), therefore I always play games on 'easy' to avoid frustration.
 

KalBalboa

Banned
Most video games stories aren't force feeding me the bullshit with unskipable cutscenes. But no, I'm not that picky with my games stories, Max Payne 3's however bothered me.

That's fair. Most of the time when people talk about forcing they're exaggerating, but MP3 doesn't allow much deviation from the scripting. If you didn't gel with it that's fine.
 
I'm only like 2 hours into Max Payne 3 but I have a very hard time getting into it. He is now unlikable and me too don't like to control this character. I'll give it a shot again.
You got to give the game some time. Wait until he cut off his hair and see this a methaphor (Sam Lake said that btw.).
 

jonno394

Member
Wow, OP must've really hated the game if it inspired such an negative post.

I read through it over the course of 10/15 minutes and I found myself shaking my head in disagreement so often. As with many I am a long time Max Payne fan, and even though this didn't feel the same as the first two, I absolutely adored my time with it and I was hooked from the get go.

Max Payne 3 is my 2012 GOTY, it had fantastic gunplay, what I found was stunning presentation and the game scene/music of the year during the last level. I thought Max was a great character, his dialogue was brilliant and his drug fuelled, alcoholic, depressed nature may have grated on some but for me it was the second best part of the game (after the gunplay).

Please Rockstar, give me Max Payne 4.
 
Max Payne in MP1 had the personality of a C-Grade comic book hero, Max Payne in MP2 had the personality of a 2x4.

Max was drastically better as a character in MP3, it's sorta weird how people think the opposite.

Didn't even compare his character to the old games, played them so long ago I don't really remember much about them other than actually enjoying them.

I'd take abundant cutscenes covering load times over blank loading screens every couple of minutes any day, any time. Seamless gameplay is something that isn't done enough.

Doesn't really make sense on a computer... and honestly, does it really load for minutes on ps360 under the disguise of cutscenes?
 

Ciastek3214

Junior Member
Max Payne in MP1 had the personality of a C-Grade comic book hero, Max Payne in MP2 had the personality of a 2x4.

Max was drastically better as a character in MP3, it's sorta weird how people think the opposite.

Max was fucking awfully written character in MP3, sorta weird that you don't see that.
 
Great OP. Yeah this game was pretty bad. I can excuse a lot of things but I can't, I won't, ever excuse unskippable cutscenes- especially when they come as often and last as long as they do in this game.

Checkpointing was really bad in this game as well. I clearly remember times where I would clear a room or area of the 10 or so dudes, move into the next clearly segmented area, die, and then have to do that first room/area all over again. So frustrating.

On the positive side, jumping around was kind of fun and the way he carried two handed weapons was neat. But that wasn't enough to keep me from selling the game when I was done; with the cutscenes and the difficulty spikes there was no way I was ever going to subject myself to the game ever again. Rockstar's worst game this generation.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Putting aside the story and cutscenes argument, which is of course true but discussed to death at this point, you have a couple of good points (OP) but it looks like you were out of your depth playing it on hard.
Most of the complaints come off as someone who isn't simply good enough at the game and should've played on normal or easy.

I mean Last Stand pops up when you're already dead, how can you demand it being more easy, when it's just an extra the game is giving you, and you should already be reloading the last save? the examples of level design are similar, when i plaeyd through the game (multiple times) and looked around, there where almost always places i could "dive to" and form up a strategy to take out some people before others.
One gif with two objects non aligned doesn't mean much, you are supposed to look around and use bullet time and diving at your advantage, not just have the game let you do whatever you want, it would be like a puzzle game accepting any solution you propose.

Animation priority is a good point, but it's also subjective, i don't think every game should handle like Half Life or Quake, this goes for Max Payne 3 as well as Chronicles of Riddick or Mirror's Edge etc etc.
But that's really something subjective, depending on how you feel on the matter.
I like the heavy weight they give the game, since the pacing is not one of a super fast shooter deliberately, Max is a big old dude and you're supposed to plan ahead of time how you're gonna clear a room (also the game doesn't have endless waves of bulletsponge enemies, for this very reason) it's a different pacing from something like, say, Binary Domain (which i also love):
slow movement.
limited slow motion.
few bullets.
few enemies with little health.
slower pace.

versus:
ton of ammunitions.
ton of sponge enemies.
faster pacing.

Also, fantastic hit reaction made it one of the most fun 3rd person shooters i've ever played.
--
Then there's the cutscenes problem, and that sucks donkey balls, indeed.


As far as Remedy goes, i love MP1 and 2, although they were fairly different games, but i thought Alan Wake was terribly boring, aside from the decent Twin Peaks storyline.
So i don't they're above failure, unfortunately.
 

MormaPope

Banned
Didn't even compare his character to the old games, played them so long ago I don't really remember much about them other than actually enjoying them.

If you go back you'll see how simple and drab his character is nowadays. Max Payne from the previous games hasn't aged well.


Doesn't really make sense on a computer... and honestly, does it really load for minutes on ps360?

I'm talking about in general, Skyrim is unplayable for me on the 360 due to the amount of load times and how frequent they can be. Never figured out why you can't skip cutscenes in the PC version, must have something to due with the engine itself.
 

Riposte

Member
I didn't hate this game, but I would have a hard time returning to it. Visually (and I'm including the enemy reactions here) it is stunning and gripping.

Don't play it on hard.

No game is perfect (R* combat is always sloppy as all hell), therefore I always play games on 'easy' to avoid frustration.

Sounds like you are just making those "non-perfect" games worse. Frustration can be a good thing.
 
I can agree shooting feels good, but movement feels awful. making it 'realistic' doesn't make it have to = fun. I definitely feel like most of the deaths i've had were out of my control.

And the fuck is with the story? Why did I shoot some random guys at a strip club? Why did I just kill half the neighborhood?

And why did they ditch the awesome bullet time 2.0 for this half assed cover mechanic that doesnt' flow?

was easily the best part of 2 (combined with the awesome spin reload).
 

OSHAN

Member
I recently beat it on hard and I thought it was great. I loved the fact the designers took every conceivable place it would be fun to have a shoot-out and incorporated it into the levels.

I can't say I was happy about the cover bug where you get stuck and have to restart. You'd think that would have been patched. Also, instances where the checkpoint requires you to watch a short cutscene; it can get tiresome watching the same thing over and over.

You can skip cutscenes, you just have to wait for the game to finish loading. Unfortunately, by the time the game finishes loading, you're almost though the cutscene.

Regardless, I very much enjoyed the game, and I very much enjoyed Max Payne 1 and 2. I think Rockstar did an excellent job handling the series.
 

Boerseun

Banned
I'm expecting a couple of virals to pop up in this thread. But the OP is in the right, though. The game's a dissappointing end to a once great property.
 

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
So many "this game didnt play like I wanted it to play, hence its a bad game" posts lately.

Its a game about shooting, and the shooting in it, is fun. Thats what it sets out to do and it does it well. Good game.

Not a whole lot of replayability though.
 

Card Boy

Banned
You can skip cutscenes, you just have to wait for the game to finish loading. Unfortunately, by the time the game finishes loading, you're almost though the cutscene.

So basically they are unskippable lol. TotalBiscuit has a SSD harddrive and in his WTF video you still couldn't skip cutscenes.
 

UrbanRats

Member
I can agree shooting feels good, but movement feels awful. making it 'realistic' doesn't make it have to = fun. I definitely feel like most of the deaths i've had were out of my control.
As i said above, what "fun" is, is an really up to the player.
The animation based movement, a bit like in Riddick and similar games, gives it a peculiar feel and just because you don't moke like on rolleblades, it doesn't mean it can't be "fun".

And why did they ditch the awesome bullet time 2.0 for this half assed cover mechanic that doesnt' flow?
Because it's another game, and it ties in with the different pacing they were going for in this game.
As stated above.
 

KalBalboa

Banned
Again, it is a discussion forum, and my post was refering to the fact that he wasn't contributing any arguments, and they're a main part of a discussion.

No, you told someone who liked the writing they were blind to how badly written Max Payne was in a factual sense. It's silly.
 

UrbanRats

Member
I'm expecting a couple of virals to pop up in this thread. But the OP is in the right, though. The game's a dissappointing end to a once great property.
ibgzM45WMjaYFE.gif

Just waiting for ma' paycheck.
 
It's a hugely flawed experience but ultimately it's a game about shooting people and it excels in that regard. I don't think I'll ever want to play through it again though, and that's a shame.
 

vidcons

Banned
player movement helps give a feeling of place within the world. mp3's movement definitely helped with the feeling of being in the game world

bam, moving on

noir in general is a style over substance genre and the original series had stronger prose. that doesn't make the characterization of max any better in the originals

more engaging, maybe. more entertaining, maybe. max is still a dull, boring alcoholic who pops painkillers and is all too aware that he is a videogame
 

MormaPope

Banned
Max was fucking awfully written character in MP3, sorta weird that you don't see that.

Nice way to back up your argument.

Max in MP3 feels like a person that has actually felt pain and regret, alcoholics usually have self pity and often blame themselves for a lot of things. Max being in 40's and having nothing to show for it except a huge body count and drug addictions makes all his banter warranted and real.

Hell, the writers even acknowledged the pill popping aspect from previous games in a very smart way. Downing 2 bottles of painkillers after getting shot multiple times would probably make you an addict.

Max Payne in MP1 just had wisecracks and at times poetic thoughts, that's it. No motives or personality traits besides continuing forward and stumbling into something bigger than himself (a part of MP3 also). Eventually after all the stumbling, he kills the woman responsible for his pain.

Now unto Max in MP2. Besides very subtle hints of alcoholism, all Max focuses on is the case he's following and why past ghosts are coming back. Greatest part of his character was the love story between him and Mona Sax, besides that, Max still just has wisecracks (much less than last time) and poetic monologues at times (usually better than the ones in MP1).

From my perspective, you simply don't like Max Payne's character in MP3, that's different than his character being poorly written though.
 

Ciastek3214

Junior Member
No, you told someone who liked the writing they were blind to how badly written Max Payne was in a factual sense. It's silly.

No, he said that people were blind for thinking Max character was well written, and doesn't provide any arguments as to WHY that's not true. I did the same in opposite direction to show that this kind of argument contributes nothing to the discussion.

Nice way to back up your argument.

Well, you didn't back up your argument at first, you just pretty much said "Max was bad in 1 & 2, he's great in 3 because, and you're wrong if you think otherwise.". What I did was the same just to see how you react.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
the gun play was a step down then the streamlined mechanics of the first two, but fuck the cutscenes.

The cutscenes (on top of being unskippable) were horrible. The same shit again and again. I stopped the game after the first few chapters cuz it got so monotonous. And lord those horrible color filters.

The Man on Fire style is cool in a tense compact movie but gets old in a game.
 

Card Boy

Banned
I replayed both MP 1&2 a week before Max Payne 3 got released so it would be fresh in my mind. The claims it played the same are false outside bullet-time. The originals had larger areas, lots of platforming sections (MP3 had none), enemies where not bullet sponges, it had multiple bosses, no 'turret' segments, back tracking to previous areas and it didn't need cutscenes every 5 minutes to advance the story.
 
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