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May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!
- Thread starter Volotaire
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Tbf the SNP would support full reform of how devolution works and how Westminster functions alongside it but quite rightly they are against the Tories political aim of devolving 10% of something and cutting them out of voting on the other 90% at the same time.
UK parties are terrified of being punished for 'wanting to create more politicians' by suggesting an English Parliament.
UK parties are terrified of being punished for 'wanting to create more politicians' by suggesting an English Parliament.
Panelbase GB poll
Final #GE2015 @panelbase GB poll:
LAB 33% (-1),
CON 31% (-1%),
UKIP 16% (-1),
LD 8% (NC),
GRN 5% (+1),
SNP 5%,
OTH 2.
My rule of thumb is to give little credence to any poll which has the main two at 31% or below. That just doesn't feel right. UKIP looks to be about 2% too high, I could conceivably see both Labour and the Tories at 33%. High UKIP (> 14%) normally means low Con
Final #GE2015 @panelbase GB poll:
LAB 33% (-1),
CON 31% (-1%),
UKIP 16% (-1),
LD 8% (NC),
GRN 5% (+1),
SNP 5%,
OTH 2.
My rule of thumb is to give little credence to any poll which has the main two at 31% or below. That just doesn't feel right. UKIP looks to be about 2% too high, I could conceivably see both Labour and the Tories at 33%. High UKIP (> 14%) normally means low Con
N7Commander95
Member
Im not sure, on my facebook feed, I had an article come up say Final YouGov pol has the Conservative and Labour on equal seats
Aha! You're right he could just come away afterwards and say, "*shrug* sorry, it was a cledge, not a pledge."
More Cassetteboy goodness.
_/¯
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Yay! We get to do it all again in five years - or six months - time.
All with you on the second half. But the "how devolution works" is going to be a bit of a mystery if you have to do it without England playing.
Of course they are. Hence the idea that the UK Parliament could sit in committee for English votes. But the constitution is way too complicated for that to happen, at least easily.
AHA-Lambda
Member
I totally expect him to do this if given the chance, I don't believe his words regarding an SNP deal frankly.
Why would he do a deal?
What's in it for him?
IdreamofHIME
Member
Being Prime Minister
AHA-Lambda
Member
Forming a majority coalition and becoming PM?
There's zero chance of miliband grudgingly letting Conservatives back in, if Lab+SNP > Conservative. Any speak of 'no deals' is clearly posturing to try and stretch an awful campaign into a region somewhere close to the finish line.
As someone who voted Yes last year, and is voting SNP tomorrow, if the SNP present any mandate for a referendum in any stage of the democratic process (party manifesto/holyrood/whatever), I will vote it down. It's done, for a long while. It would undo any 'progress' they've made of late, to a significant degree. If Miliband does work with the SNP, I doubt a referendum would be a 'deal criterion' due to the fact that SNP surely must be aware that if they did try so soon, they'd lose by an even bigger margin than last year. It would be a waste of a bargaining chip.
As someone who voted Yes last year, and is voting SNP tomorrow, if the SNP present any mandate for a referendum in any stage of the democratic process (party manifesto/holyrood/whatever), I will vote it down. It's done, for a long while. It would undo any 'progress' they've made of late, to a significant degree. If Miliband does work with the SNP, I doubt a referendum would be a 'deal criterion' due to the fact that SNP surely must be aware that if they did try so soon, they'd lose by an even bigger margin than last year. It would be a waste of a bargaining chip.
He doesn't need a coalition with the SNP to become PM
Psychotext
Member
I'm voting in the constituency nearest my family home, in the safest of safe Tory seats (Tunbridge Wells!), so whatever I do makes no difference whatsoever. My alternative was Vauxhall, where I live normally, but I'd rather not vote for the Tories than not vote for Labour, as idiotic as that is (also, being with the family for the election is usually fun). I voted for the Tories last time after Labour's irresponsibility left the country in a terrible position going into a recession, but the Tories' behaviour has been absolutely repulsive, targeting the poorest and most vulnerable (aka those who can't fight back) to cover the cost of the arrogance of the richest. That's to say nothing of the 'recovery' (very tenuous) being felt by absolutely no-one but those at the top, who have been given greater freedom than ever to exploit those at the bottom of the ladder. Austerity makes absolutely no sense, in an economic downturn at least, and their rhetoric of division, discrimination and fear has been disgusting.
Definitely not voting for the Tories, then; Miliband shows no understanding of what went long last time and has caved into every one of Cameron's traps rather than standing up for what, if anything, he believes in; the Lib Dems are cowards and cannot be trusted; UKIP have a small number of interesting ideas, but many more truly awful ones, some nasty people in their ranks, and are obviously even further to the right than even they let on; I was close to voting Green at one point, but every time they've opened their mouths since, they've dug themselves into an ever-deeper hole.
Long story short, there's no-one I feel is close to deserving even what will nevertheless be an entirely wasted vote, so I'm almost certain to spoil my ballot in some rudimentary form of protest. Spoilt ballots are counted, so it won't make any more or less difference than voting for an actual party and at least represents my complete lack of trust and faith in the current stable of Westminster charlatans.
Definitely not voting for the Tories, then; Miliband shows no understanding of what went long last time and has caved into every one of Cameron's traps rather than standing up for what, if anything, he believes in; the Lib Dems are cowards and cannot be trusted; UKIP have a small number of interesting ideas, but many more truly awful ones, some nasty people in their ranks, and are obviously even further to the right than even they let on; I was close to voting Green at one point, but every time they've opened their mouths since, they've dug themselves into an ever-deeper hole.
Long story short, there's no-one I feel is close to deserving even what will nevertheless be an entirely wasted vote, so I'm almost certain to spoil my ballot in some rudimentary form of protest. Spoilt ballots are counted, so it won't make any more or less difference than voting for an actual party and at least represents my complete lack of trust and faith in the current stable of Westminster charlatans.
she already said the referendum is not on the agenda at all in the length of the parliament, she has said several times, a vote for SNP is not a vote for a referendum
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Looks like you have an Independent running, why not vote for them?
Wrestlemania
Banned
I've seen this sort of regret for voting Tory in 2010 a few times now, and every time I just think "How did you not see this coming? They're the Tories!".
IdreamofHIME
Member
Confidence and supply is of no benefit to the SNP at all. They back Labour just to fuck over the Tories and get nothing back?
I dont see it.
JonathanEx
Member
AHA-Lambda
Member
What do you think would happen to them if they let the Tories in?
JesseEwiak
Member
Yup. I mean, this is what conservative governments do. They take things from the most vulnerable and give things to the most successful.
Psychotext
Member
Are you new to the Tory / SNP relationship?
They'll get plenty back, because even without a deal set in writing Labour will always know that they can vote against them at any time on their important issues... which means Labour will always consider issues that are important to the SNP.
Politics is much more nuanced than YOU GIVE ME THIS, WE GIVE YOU THAT, WE VOTE NOW.
I'm aware. I was more meaning a bargaining chip in the form of devolving the power to determine when to have a referendum or something, but my fingers didn't actually type those words.
Scottish Labour on the otherhand, talk more about a referendum than the SNP.
If they run with that next year, they'll lose.
IdreamofHIME
Member
No no no. She said a referendum is not part of this Westminster election....however there is a Scottish election in exactly one years time. You better believe it will be an agenda there.
I understand that they have committed to voting down the Tories, and would generally get a great deal of bad sentiment by helping the Tories in any way.
So whilst they may not get anything directly, it's more that they would lose so much if they didn't back Labour.
At the same time, Labour would probably offer sweeteners to ensure support, Devo Max once the dust has settled / voting reform etc...
they don't get the distinction of letting the tories back into power, however they have said they will vote against any Labour budget with cuts, but that is about it
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/05/06/its-neck-and-neck-and-times/
Final YouGov Nowcast: Con 276, Lab 276, Lib Dem 23, UKIP 1, SNP 51
Final YouGov Nowcast: Con 276, Lab 276, Lib Dem 23, UKIP 1, SNP 51
Wrestlemania
Banned
Unless they were to make it explicitly not on the agenda should there be any deal with Labour.
Thornton Reed
Member
Brooker is on guys
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Final grumpy old man post of the evening.
How dare they call this "austerity"! Austerity is food rationing, paper rationing, petrol rationing and growing your own carrots. Shopping at Lidl instead of Tesco isn't austerity.
Night night all. Vote early and vote often, as they say.
See you in the aftermath.
How dare they call this "austerity"! Austerity is food rationing, paper rationing, petrol rationing and growing your own carrots. Shopping at Lidl instead of Tesco isn't austerity.
Night night all. Vote early and vote often, as they say.
See you in the aftermath.
IdreamofHIME
Member
It makes them irrelevant.
SNP is currently occupying the position Labour traditionally took, for them to give up anything to Labour with little in return will hurt them the next time an election comes around...which is just next year in Scotland.
Why vote SNP to get Labour, when you can just vote Labour to get Labour? What are SNP bringing to the party?
It's the exact same thing that is sinking the Lib Dems after 5 years of being used by the Tories.
jimbobsmells
Member
"They see you as a North London geek"
Damn I forgot about that. Nothing wrong with being a geek.
Damn I forgot about that. Nothing wrong with being a geek.
The SNP will position themselves to the left of Milibands Labour, by supporting the stuff they have in common but offering 'better' versions of it via amendment which Labour will be forced to vote down. The SNP can then say look we tried but they're still the same old New Labour at heart, that'll play very well in the Central Belt of Scotland. The SNP will also talk of some standalone policies which Labour can't vote through which will add to it.
You're right in that it's essentially somewhat of a false choice but it will not be presented that way.
Who cares indeed?
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Please can we have a mod change the title urging people to go vote.
It is very important people vote, even if they are a ukipper.
It is very important people vote, even if they are a ukipper.
For a start, I wasn't old enough to have much memory of living under the Tories before 1997. Secondly, their widely held reputation for economic competence was pretty appealing after years of irresponsible Labour spending and borrowing, not to mention that Cameron, whilst obviously a career politican, was presenting himself as more open-minded than the average Tory in many respects in an attempt to 'detoxify' the Conservative brand. I don't regret voting for the Tories with regard what Labour had been doing and what I knew at the time, though I certainly won't be voting for them any time soon, just as it'd take a hell of a lot for me to vote Labour until the Blair/Brown brigade have been exorcised.
(And Cameron was almost enough - a Labour leader more competent than Moribund, sorry, Miliband might've done it.)
Because, frankly, he seems to be an utter wally.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
No, please go vote. If you disapprove of all options then spoil your ballot. It shows you are willing to make the effort if they try to appeal to you.
I'm going to vote, but... Meh. I'm not voting for what I believe in, but instead I'm voting against what I don't believe in.
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