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May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!

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P

Photolysis

Banned
Porcile said:
I don't think I've ever met someone who genuinely likes Conservative politicians and yet my entire county voted pretty much entirely Conservative. I don't think I'll ever understand.
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I don't like the Conservatives, it's more a case of me thinking they're the least bad option.
 
T

travisbickle

Member
CyclopsRock said:
Why? The whole point of them not being beholden to advertisers is that they *don't* need to care about popularity. If youre still going to chase ratings just shove adverts in there and give everyone back their license fee. I dont care is 5 people watch a TV show about the breeding habit of gnats, I'd rather they made that than some trash heap sitcom that wouldn't even make it on to C4.
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They don't have free reign as you imagine. They're beholden to providing a range of genres within they're programming schedules and that includes populist TV that people watch. Why do some people think the BBC is some free spirit? There's more rules to the content they can and can't provide, because they are supposed to be providing worthwhile content to the whole population, then there is for other TV stations.
 
W

Willy Wanka

my god this avatar owns
From a Scottish perspective, I hope the SNP concentrate their efforts on trying to make Scotland the best it can be rather than focusing party efforts on pushing for another referendum. I would be fine with devo-max as it lets the SNP take credit for the successes but also removes the 'Westminister's fault' pass card when it comes to the failures. The next few months are going to be very interesting in that regard.

Also I've just watched George Galloway's concession speech. What a tremendous walloper he is.
 
C

Crispy75

Member
Moskito said:
You can speculate as much you like, but no sweeping generalisation can be made about voters' 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. preferences. Hell, opinion polls failed on 1st preferences and speculation is never going to substantiate anything on the 2nd.

For the record, I'm not claiming AV is the best voting system in the world; it has its flaws like FPTP does. The point is not that it's the best, but that it is better than FPTP.
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It's a tiny bit better. If it doesn't prove too hard, I'm going to have a go at a spreadsheet for an AV simulation and tweak the 2nd preference variables, just to see how robust the result is.
 
A

anonymous_abc

Member
Hasney said:
Everytime proportional representation is brought up, it's straight PR with nothing ever mentioned about local representation. For me, that's the part that need answering first, especially as I actually vote for an MP and not a leader or a party.
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I added this link later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU

It is really (!) common for PR systems to also have local representation! It's not something special only Germany does.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Willy Wanka said:
From a Scottish perspective, I hope the SNP concentrate their efforts on trying to make Scotland the best it can be rather than focusing party efforts on pushing for another referendum. I would be fine with devo-max as it lets the SNP take credit for the successes but also removes the 'Westminister's fault' pass card when it comes to the failures. The next few months are going to be very interesting in that regard.

Also I've just watched George Galloway's concession speech. What a tremendous walloper he is.
Click to expand...

might want to wait for oil to perk up and maybe send the shetland isles a basket of shortbread before you try that again.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
travisbickle said:
They don't have free reign as you imagine. They're beholden to providing a range of genres within they're programming schedules and that includes populist TV that people watch. Why do some people think the BBC is some free spirit? There's more rules to the content they can and can't provide, because they are supposed to be providing worthwhile content to the whole population, then there is for other TV stations.
Click to expand...
I know? I was proposing a change!
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
With the last declaration, Conservatives take St Ives to take them to 330.

The Tories wiped out the Lib Dems in the west country.

And now I'm off to bed.
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
Eidan said:
For real. This feels like 2004 US Presidential election levels of "What the hell was this electorate thinking?"
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It's not that bad. With Bush there was the sure knowledge that pain and misery was going to be inflicted on the entire globe. Thousands were going to die. And they did.

With this election things are just going to get more mean-spirited and the bar is going to drop even further.
 
M

Mr Git

Member
Man, honestly I was gonna mope for the rest of the day and be bleak but I just got my master's scholarship and it's fucking hard to be miserable when I'm also beaming with horrible smugness.
 
A

anonymous_abc

Member
Hasney said:
Everytime proportional representation is brought up, it's straight PR with nothing ever mentioned about local representation. For me, that's the part that need answering first, especially as I actually vote for an MP and not a leader or a party.
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Also you already vote by the exact same system for the European elections. You have a local MEP and PR. I see no reason to expect a national system to be greatly different.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
so he stood on the steps of downing street and said a definite yes to the in out referendum on Europe...

a 2 year fight incoming, will be interested in businesses start to say they wont invest because of it
 
H

Hasney

Member
shootfast said:
Do what Australia does, proportional upper house. Have local representation while still having proportional representation at the same time.
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Could work. Just unlike AV, they need to fully define and engage people way in advance of a vote. While I personally didn't like AV, a lot of people would have if they understood it at the time.

sohois said:
It's been an interesting read, these past few days in this thread. But I'm really beginning to miss the old UKPoliGAF thread. That was a well balanced community really, with groups of left and right wingers capable of quite reasonable debate. That's quite the opposite to what this thread has become.

I well understand how difficult it is to remain calm when it comes to political discussion. It can, and very often has been, a matter of life and death. No surprise that people can't really maintain a rational demeanor at such times. However, at this point the absurd overreactions are just pointless. It's obvious you're unhappy, but nothing has even happened yet and you're already calling the death of the country. Perhaps just wait a while, protest when there is something to protest.

What really gets me is the despicable patronising shite from a great deal of people going on about how they have become 'ashamed' of the country or how stupid all those Tory voters are for picking a different party to you. That someone has different political beliefs to you does not make them some moron or deserving of scorn. It's probably true that a number of people did vote for parties based on what a paper told them, or what the leader looks like or some random factor unrelated to policies, yet this is pretty likely to be true of all parties in any case. And if you meet these people then feel free to criticize them and debate them or whatever. Don't just assume that all the voters for 'the enemy' party are gullible fools whilst your own group are the only ones who can see the light. (I'll make an exception for anyone that supports Theresa May)
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It's unfortunate, but it's exactly what you get from the general public right now, especially from those that aren't engaged in any form of politics throughout the year and instead just comment on flashpoints. Everyones with you or against you and if you can shout down your opponent, then you win. This idea of that being the reasoned debate has just grown and grown, especially pushed by rolling news so they can get viewers.

FliXFantatier said:
I added this link later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU

It is really (!) common for PR systems to also have local representation! It's not something special only Germany does.
Click to expand...

Neat :) It's one of those things where I just get suspect of how MPs would look to implement this. I'm sure a bunch of them would just love to invite their closest buddies in with them.
 
A

anonymous_abc

Member
sohois said:
It's been an interesting read, these past few days in this thread. But I'm really beginning to miss the old UKPoliGAF thread. That was a well balanced community really, with groups of left and right wingers capable of quite reasonable debate. That's quite the opposite to what this thread has become.

I well understand how difficult it is to remain calm when it comes to political discussion. It can, and very often has been, a matter of life and death. No surprise that people can't really maintain a rational demeanor at such times. However, at this point the absurd overreactions are just pointless. It's obvious you're unhappy, but nothing has even happened yet and you're already calling the death of the country. Perhaps just wait a while, protest when there is something to protest.

What really gets me is the despicable patronising shite from a great deal of people going on about how they have become 'ashamed' of the country or how stupid all those Tory voters are for picking a different party to you. That someone has different political beliefs to you does not make them some moron or deserving of scorn. It's probably true that a number of people did vote for parties based on what a paper told them, or what the leader looks like or some random factor unrelated to policies, yet this is pretty likely to be true of all parties in any case. And if you meet these people then feel free to criticize them and debate them or whatever. Don't just assume that all the voters for 'the enemy' party are gullible fools whilst your own group are the only ones who can see the light. (I'll make an exception for anyone that supports Theresa May)
Click to expand...

You clearly haven't been to the UKpoliGAF thread in a long time, I often feel like one of very few left wing leaning people in there. :p
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
ghst said:
i mean they just don't show up. see the total collapse of the lib dems in their marginals with the tories.
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I guess sitting around and castigating people on the internet takes up a lot of time.

i mean, as an_generic_person_of_liberal_persuasion, the more i engage with the discourse, the more it just leaves a slimy film on me that i want to shower off. liberal politics is supposed to be one of social optimism and positivity, but like most i can barely tolerate the shower of bastards presented as my natural option and i'd be voting almost entirely negatively to keep the tories out.

I feel like voting tory requires much less personal investment, you don't need to believe in anything other than your limited self interests so what do you care if the bloke you're voting in is a slimy two faced twat?
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Yeah, I'm in the same boat. That's why I opted to spoil the ballot this year. I treated the process with the respect I feel is due. If Labour had looked like they had a chance, I might've ticked that blue box just to head 'em off, but fortunately that wasn't necessary. I'm glad too because whilst I dislike the Tories a little less than I dislike Labour, I wouldn't feel right actively voting for them.

My 'natural option' would probably have been the LibDems. That was a non-starter.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
in a hour you are about to see how serious he is about Europe....

if the name is a euro sceptic, like Phillip Hammond there will be a blood bath in Brussels
 
A

Alienous

Member
Tak3n said:
I also think what tonight tells us that it will be a long time before a minority party agrees to a coalition....
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If you do you just need to make sure you are kowtowing to the majority party just so you feel important.

The Liberal Democrats deserved what happened to them based only on their actions. An actual coalition with an assertive leader might not be so disastrous.
 
J

jonno394

Member
Mr Git said:
Man, honestly I was gonna mope for the rest of the day and be bleak but I just got my master's scholarship and it's fucking hard to be miserable when I'm also beaming with horrible smugness.
Click to expand...

NWrbyzV.png
 
H

Hasney

Member
Mr Git said:
Man, honestly I was gonna mope for the rest of the day and be bleak but I just got my master's scholarship and it's fucking hard to be miserable when I'm also beaming with horrible smugness.
Click to expand...

Screw that, one of the pints I have tonight will be for that man.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
FliXFantatier said:
You clearly haven't been to the UKpoliGAF thread in a long time, I often feel like one of very few left wing leaning people in there. :p
Click to expand...

Speaking of which, any thoughts about a new UKPoliGAF thread title?

We need to think about creating a new thread for the new Parliament.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
SmokyDave said:
We don't have the ability to say 'look, I dig most of your shit but that one thing has to go'. If you look at a party and they're closest to your views on aggregate, you're probably going to vote for them. It doesn't mean you totally endorse each and every policy they have, it just means they're the closest to your political beliefs.
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That's a reasonable point, but I'd still argue there's a moral duty to vote for wider issues over what will directly benefit you as an individual.

The tories being in won't realistically affect me, I don't claim benefits, I own my house, I have a very well paying and stable job, I have no kids, but I still chose to vote Labour as I felt a social and moral responsibility to ensure the poorest and least able of society aren't further impacted by mostly ideological cuts that would only serve to make their already difficult lives considerably harder.

Maledict said:
I think you are missing smokey's point.

As someone with two disabled sisters, both of whom on permanent disability benefits (one born that way, one with extremely advanced MS), I am incredibly passionate about these issues. But you will not win an election on them. That's not a new thing, it's simply a cardinal rule of politics.

Labour won big when it's message was based around letting people earn money, and using that money to fund social causes. That was the heart of Blairism - a message to the middle class that it was okay to do better, to earn more money, to be ambitious because that success would be passed down to the less well off.

You won't ever persuade a majority of people based on the idea that if the other team gets in horrible things will happen to the poor. It's sad, I wish it wasn't the case, but it isn't anyway to win elections.
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You're right, but I also feel there's always been a sort of social and moral obligation in how people vote. That they wouldn't want to see the poorest and less able unnecessarily and unfairly impacted by certain policies.

That seems to have almost completely thrown by the wayside with the election. It's both worrying and disturbing and the potential thinking behind it is reprehensible.
 
S

sohois

Member
FliXFantatier said:
You clearly haven't been to the UKpoliGAF thread in a long time, I often feel like one of very few left wing leaning people in there. :p
Click to expand...

You think so? I certainly didn't keep up with the thread regularly, but whilst the right wing posters may have been more active, I think there were still overall more left wing posters, just not posting as much.
 
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