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[tryagainlater]

Why's that? What about Yoji Shinkawa or Ken Imaizumi?

I was kinda just taking the piss because of Sn4ke's post. You gotta admit though, Konami doesn't seem to be run very well. I know it was 4 years ago but that 2010 E3 conference has made most of us lose faith in the company if any of us had faith in it to begin with. Love Deterrence doesn't even like Kojima apparently

 

[-Deimos]

I didn't know Kojima worked at Konami.

 

[Love Deterrence]

I didn't know Kojima worked at Konami.

He doesn't. Konami works at Kojima.

I was kinda just taking the piss because of Sn4ke's post. You gotta admit though, Konami doesn't seem to be run very well. I know it was 4 years ago but that 2010 E3 conference has made most of us lose faith in the company if any of us had faith in it to begin with. Love Deterrence doesn't even like Kojima apparently

Oh, you!

 

[GreyOcelot]

And yet when all the enemies are white, no one gives a shit. Weird how that works, isn't it? The point I'm making about RE5 is that it was set in an African region where 99% of the villagers were black. They changed it because of the whining media.

With other ethnicities in the Red Army during the 80's, it just seemed very off. You ask me why the sci-fi of MGS doesn't bother me, but I question the soldiers during this time? It's one thing to call out sci-fi shit in a sci-fi series, but it's another to call out historical accuracy when prior games in the series have done a pretty damn good job of keeping most, if not all of that, in line (exception being the lore interwoven with it).



I wasn't assuming there were absolutely none, but what I'm getting at is that there were so few, it'd be such a rarity to ever see them.

do you know that there were so few? or are you just saying that because most russians are white? they very well could have had a afghani soldiers, african soldiers, or even cuban soldiers. i'm just saying, you should research a topic before you come to a conclusion that it may or may not be historically accurate.

 

[Palpable]

do you know that there were so few? or are you just saying that because most russians are white? they very well could have had a afghani soldiers, african soldiers, or even cuban soldiers. i'm just saying, you should research a topic before you come to a conclusion that it may or may not be historically accurate.

Did I come to the conclusion that it isn't? I'm pretty sure I asked if it was because it seemed off, based on what I've learned of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80's from school. If there were Afghan soldiers in the Red Army during that time, it'd be minuscule (they were fighting with the Mujahideen) . I'll get a definitive answer for you since it's bothering you that I'm asking this.

 

[GreyOcelot]

i honestly don't care one way or the other. just seems like an odd thing to cross-post in two threads without looking into it. no hard feelings

 

[Love Deterrence]

The Red Ribbon Army is pretty diverse, last I checked.

 

[Dawg]

Do they have attack dogs?

 

[-Deimos]

Do they have attack dogs?

Looks like they have a cat.

 

[Rogue Agent]

The Red Ribbon Army is pretty diverse, last I checked.

Man, that show

Is the Red Ribbon Army the final version of Outer Heaven? Also, I believe Commander Red has an eyepatch and his short stature is like Tyrion Lannister - a perfect combination of combat prowess and a sharp mind.

 

[Dawg]

 

[Screaming Meat]

And yet when all the enemies are white, no one gives a shit. Weird how that works, isn't it?

What do you mean?

The point I'm making about RE5 is that it was set in an African region where 99% of the villagers were black. They changed it because of the whining media.

So exactly how does that impact on your enjoyment of the game?

With other ethnicities in the Red Army during the 80's, it just seemed very off. You ask me why the sci-fi of MGS doesn't bother me, but I question the soldiers during this time? It's one thing to call out sci-fi shit in a sci-fi series, but it's another to call out historical accuracy when prior games in the series have done a pretty damn good job of keeping most, if not all of that, in line (exception being the lore interwoven with it).

I wasn't assuming there were absolutely none, but what I'm getting at is that there were so few, it'd be such a rarity to ever see them.

Never mind that all of this historical accuracy is interspersed with split-personality psychics, living tatoos, telekinesis, flaming skulls, 100 year-old snipers, cyborg ninjas, stealth camo, bipedal nuclear-equipped battle tanks that move like dinosaurs, men who can wield lightning, vat grown clones, force fields, vampires, self-aware AIs developed in the 70s, ghosts, nano-machines, bomb-crazy fatsos on inline skates, mind controlling arms, GEKKOs, dudes that fire bees from their mouth, handheld Rail Guns, hover platforms, Octocamo...

Nope, it's seeing a black guy in the Soviet Army that ended up being the straw that ultimately broke the back of our suspension of disbelief.

 

[Jubilee123]

Hey! I've been waiting months for this account to be activated. I thought I'd show you a drawing of Snake that I did!

 

[Dawg]

Hey! I've been waiting months for this account to be activated. I thought I'd show you a drawing of Snake that I did!

Pic not working. This should:

 

[Jubilee123]

Thank you!

Pic not working. This should:

 

[SargerusBR]

The Red Ribbon Army is pretty diverse, last I checked.

Didn't know Krillin was a member of Red Ribbon

 

[Love Deterrence]

Man, that show

Is the Red Ribbon Army the final version of Outer Heaven? Also, I believe Commander Red has an eyepatch and his short stature is like Tyrion Lannister - a perfect combination of combat prowess and a sharp mind.

Android 18 is Quiet!

Hey! I've been waiting months for this account to be activated. I thought I'd show you a drawing of Snake that I did!

Welcome! Awesome drawing!!

Didn't know Krillin was a member of Red Ribbon

 

[Screaming Meat]

Android 18 is Quiet!

Krillan is Chico!

 

[Love Deterrence]

Krillan is Chico!

So, what you're saying is that Chico is Android 18?!

 

[Screaming Meat]

So, what you're saying is that Chico is Android 18?!

Which means...

omg

David Hayter will return as... GOKU

 

[Rogue Agent]

Android 18 is Quiet!

And she gets raped by Cell :/ She really is Quiet.

 

[Love Deterrence]

Which means...

omg

David Hayter will return as... GOKU

The hero we don't deserve.

Spoiler

But are totally getting anyway.

And she gets raped by Cell :/ She really is Quiet.

Damn, that is a really dark take on DBZ...

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Konami works at Kojima.

 

[Love Deterrence]

 

[Palpable]

What do you mean?



So exactly how does that impact on your enjoyment of the game?



Never mind that all of this historical accuracy is interspersed with split-personality psychics, living tatoos, telekinesis, flaming skulls, 100 year-old snipers, cyborg ninjas, stealth camo, bipedal nuclear-equipped battle tanks that move like dinosaurs, men who can wield lightning, vat grown clones, force fields, vampires, self-aware AIs developed in the 70s, ghosts, nano-machines, bomb-crazy fatsos on inline skates, mind controlling arms, GEKKOs, dudes that fire bees from their mouth, handheld Rail Guns, hover platforms, Octocamo...

Nope, it's seeing a black guy in the Soviet Army that ended up being the straw that ultimately broke the back of our suspension of disbelief.

I can tell you didn't really comprehend what I said :/

All that shit you condescendingly mentioned falls in line with the sci-fi nature of the series. That being said, all that crap you brought up doesn't add to this whatsoever.

i honestly don't care one way or the other. just seems like an odd thing to cross-post in two threads without looking into it. no hard feelings

This thread isn't checked by too many people anymore, that's really the only reason why.

Bottom line is if race is brought into anything, people lose their cool. Just forget I said anything.

 

[UltraGunner]

The Red Ribbon Army is pretty diverse, last I checked.

I don't know why, but the fact that not all of them are wearing the same uniform pisses me off.

 

[Palpable]

I don't know why, but the fact that not all of them are wearing the same uniform pisses me off.

They're also wearing really short shorts.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I can tell you didn't really comprehend what I said :/

All that shit you condescendingly mentioned falls in line with the sci-fi nature of the series. That being said, all that crap you brought up doesn't add to this whatsoever.

But it does. Whether it's science-fiction or historical verisimilitude, this boils down to a suspension of disbelief. In this regard, these two positions are not mutually exclusive.

I posted a list of some of the series' most outlandish moments to highlight just how ridiculous your concern over a few soldiers' ethnicity really is. You're seemingly happy to make huge concessions for even the largest of the series' sci-fi conceits and anachronisms (which more often than not directly impacts on gameplay) but none whatsoever for one possible and ever so slight deviation from the series' "historical accuracy" (which is set dressing at most); a supposed inaccuracy that even you admit you hadn't looked into prior to your original post and which precedence was found for.

"Big Boss now has a mechanical arm!"

"Cool."

"He has a handheld Holographic Projector too!"

"Right. Bit weird but, y'know, Kojima lol."

"Some of the Russian Soldiers might be black!"

"Some of the Russian soldiers... might be... uh... black...?"

"Don't panic! I found some historical precedent for it. Plus, ethnicity was not a barrier for joining the Soviet Ar--"

"NOOOOO! It is so rare as to be completely unbelievable! Capcom sullied my African Village Genocide Simulator, now Kojima wants to ruin Metal Gear with these ridiculous Afro-Russian soldiers?! WHHHHHY?!"

*writes a sternly worded letter to Glenn Beck and Fox News*

Etc.

 

[-Deimos]

"Big Boss now has a mechanical arm!"

"Cool."

"He has a handheld Holographic Projector too!"

"Right. Bit weird but, y'know, Kojima lol."

"Some of the Russian Soldiers might be black!"

"Some of the Russian soldiers... might be... uh... black...?"

"Don't panic! I found some historical precedent for it. Plus, ethnicity was not a barrier for joining the Soviet Ar--"

"NOOOOO! It is so rare as to be completely unbelievable! Capcom sullied my African Village Genocide Simulator, now Kojima wants to ruin Metal Gear with these ridiculous Afro-Russian soldiers?! WHHHHHY?!"

*writes a sternly worded letter to Glenn Beck and Fox News*

I fucking hate it when people do this. "This game already has X,Y and Z. Why are you so mad about this particular thing??"

By that logic, it would be completely OK if the game had magic flying rainbow unicorns that shit out grenades to kill people because the game already has stuff like robot arms and holographic projectors.

 

[Love Deterrence]

I fucking hate it when people do this. "This game already has X,Y and Z. Why are you so mad about this particular thing??"

By that logic, it would be completely OK if the game had magic flying rainbow unicorns that shit out grenades to kill people because the game already has stuff like robot arms and holographic projectors.

I like the implication that magic flying rainbow unicorns won't be in the game.

 

[Palpable]

But it does. Whether it's science-fiction or historical verisimilitude, this boils down to a suspension of disbelief. In this regard, these two positions are not mutually exclusive.

I posted a list of some of the series' most outlandish moments to highlight just how ridiculous your concern over a few soldiers' ethnicity really is. You're seemingly happy to make huge concessions for even the largest of the series' sci-fi conceits and anachronisms (which more often than not directly impacts on gameplay) but none whatsoever for one possible and ever so slight deviation from the series' "historical accuracy" (which is set dressing at most); a supposed inaccuracy that even you admit you hadn't looked into prior to your original post and which precedence was found for.



Etc.

Even though that little dialogue was clearly meant as a dick move towards me, I did find it funny.

I asked a question about it, I didn't go fucking batshit insane about it. I like little details. Ridiculous plot-points and sci-fi elements don't take anything away for me, because that's what the series is. I'm also highly disappointed about there not being real world weapons in V. There were in previous games, why change that now? You're trying to compare apples to oranges when you bring those other points up. In the other thread it was mentioned that the cacti in GZ is actually indigenous in Arizona and nowhere to be found on the coast of Cuba. Those small details bother me. You may be able to overlook them, but I cannot. Big Boss having advanced tech, a red mechanical arm (why you mention it being red is beyond me, as if color matters), bipedal tanks, etc. is a non issue because of this series being sci-fi. Those things shouldn't even be brought up because it has nothing to do with what I mentioned. You trying to be a smart-ass and saying I wanted RE5 to be a black African village murder simulator is quite insensitive and a riduculous thing to say. Some people take pleasure in the little details being there, being correct. You're clearly not one of them, so trying to undermine me because I do is childish.

And for the record I asked my uncle, who used to be a history teacher, about it. He told me that the Soviets recruited anyone within their Republic. Estonians, Kazakhs, Tatars, etc. They didn't discriminate so long as you were a part of the Soviet Republic. I got my answer, which is why I posted the original post in the first place.

I fucking hate it when people do this. "This game already has X,Y and Z. Why are you so mad about this particular thing??"

By that logic, it would be completely OK if the game had magic flying rainbow unicorns that shit out grenades to kill people because the game already has stuff like robot arms and holographic projectors.

Oh my god you hit the nail on the head. This is the primary thing people throw at me when I mention my disappointment with certain details (or lack there of), such as real weapons not being in the game. Then they say, "this, that, and those are in the game, so it's okay for these to be there", which means I shouldn't be disappointed about the other thing.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I fucking hate it when people do this. "This game already has X,Y and Z. Why are you so mad about this particular thing??"

By that logic, it would be completely OK if the game had magic flying rainbow unicorns that shit out grenades to kill people because the game already has stuff like robot arms and holographic projectors.

How is a black Soviet soldier as unbelievable a notion as a "magic flying rainbow unicorn" when there is historical precedence for Afro-Russian soldiers in the Red Army...? That's a stultifying, trite and terrible analogy. If IP was complaining about magic flying rainbow unicorns, I'd make the online petition for him.

Even though that little dialogue was clearly meant as a dick move towards me, I did find it funny.

It was meant to be funny to highlight the absurdity. I'm glad it made you laugh! Lighten the tension somewhat.

I asked a question about it, I didn't go fucking batshit insane about it. I like little details. Ridiculous plot-points and sci-fi elements don't take anything away for me, because that's what the series is. I'm also highly disappointed about there not being real world weapons in V. There were in previous games, why change that now? You're trying to compare apples to oranges when you bring those other points up.

I know you didn't go batshit insane. That was exaggerated in that little scripted bit for comic effect (see above).

Big Boss having advanced tech, a red mechanical arm (why you mention it being red is beyond me, as if color matters), bipedal tanks, etc. is a non issue because of this series being sci-fi.Those things shouldn't even be brought up because it has nothing to do with what I mentioned.

As I said, both things boil down to suspension of disbelief and how you prioritise it. I'm not gonna repeat my reasoning here.

EDIT: Wait, I didn't explain my reasoning!

Okay, ask yourself this: "Why do these inaccuracies affect my enjoyment of the game?"

When you have your answer, you'll likely realise that it boils down to something akin to immersion; the game building a "believable" (as in consistent with it's own internal logic) world for the player to be a part of. When a game world does this it helps create a state in the player where they can suspend their disbelief over the more fantastical elements, like the sci-fi stuff, which can threaten this believability. The MGS series goes out of it's way to integrate that stuff by trying to ground it as much as possible. We know these things can't or don't exist, but if the world presents them in a consistent way, we can suspend our disbelief and be more immersed in the game.

So you're prioritising what stuff affects that suspension of disbelief. Both historical accuracy and the sci-fi elements boil down to that fact. For whatever reason, you find it more believable to have bipedal nuclear-equipped battle tanks and psychics in an MGS game, over the Soviet Army having the occasional black soldier.

Oh my god you hit the nail on the head. This is the primary thing people throw at me when I mention my disappointment with certain details (or lack there of), such as real weapons not being in the game. Then they say, "this, that, and those are in the game, so it's okay for these to be there", which means I shouldn't be disappointed about the other thing.

It's a terrible analogy.

 

[Palpable]

How is a black Soviet soldier as unbelievable a notion as a "magic flying rainbow unicorn" when there is historical precedence for Afro-Russian soldiers in the Red Army...? That's a stultifyingly terrible analogy.



It was meant to be funny to highlight the absurdity. I'm glad it made you laugh! Lighten the tension somewhat.



I know you didn't go batshit insane. That was exaggerated in that little scripted bit for comic effect (see above).



As I said, both things boil down to suspension of disbelief and how you prioritise it. I'm not gonna repeat my reasoning here.



It's a terrible analogy.

And yet you felt uncomfortable and the need to bring up alllll those sci-fi bits in attempt to make me feel like my question about this small detail seem unnecessary/foolish.

That analogy was awesome.

 

[Screaming Meat]

And yet you felt uncomfortable and the need to bring up alllll those sci-fi bits in attempt to make me feel like my question about this small detail seem unnecessary/foolish.

Yup.

That analogy was awesome.

Then clearly you don't get how good analogies work, sir.

 

[Palpable]

Yup.



Then clearly you don't get how good analogies work, sir.

Alrighty...

 

[Screaming Meat]

Alrighty...

Yup.

Of course, the irony here is that Louis CK would probably smack his head at your concerns over Afro-Russian soldiers and misplaced Arizonan Cacti.

Anyway, I'll shut up now. Everyone's point has been made.

 

[Love Deterrence]

 

[Screaming Meat]

 

[Palpable]

Yup.

Of course, the irony here is that Louis CK would probably smack his head at your concerns over Afro-Russian soldiers and misplaced Arizonan Cacti.

Doubtful.

I shouldn't have to explain (again) that some people have a thing for details. You must've overlooked the bit where I found out on my own that blacks & other ethnicities were indeed in the Red Army during that conflict. Blacks being present doesn't bother me, but my initial assumption that they weren't is what lead me to possibly being bothered.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

It'd be for the best since you can't seem to understand people have differing opinions from you about certain details.

LOL I love this gif.

 

[-Deimos]

I like the implication that magic flying rainbow unicorns won't be in the game.

FUCK! Kojima thinks of everything doesn't he? He forgot some details though!

 

[Palpable]

FUCK! Kojima thinks of everything doesn't he? He forgot some details though!

I'm sure the Demon Volgin and Young Mantis riding that will have a "Do it (defacate-grenades)" option.

 

[UltraGunner]

FUCK! Kojima thinks of everything doesn't he? He forgot some details though!

Ishmael must have given Boss the good shit.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Doubtful.

I dunno, I think he'd probably smell the slightly racist undertones of your earlier posts a mile off.

Actually, he'd probably rip the shit out of both of us for arguing over a videogame on the internet rather than getting on with our lives.

It'd be for the best since you can't seem to understand people have differing opinions from you about certain details.

I completely understand your opinion, that's why I can point out fairly articulately how ridiculous it is.

FUCK! Kojima thinks of everything doesn't he? He forgot some details though!

No magic carpet? SERIES RUINED.

 

[Palpable]

I dunno, I think he'd probably smell the slightly racist undertones of your earlier posts a mile off.

Actually, he'd probably rip the shit out of both of us for arguing over a videogame on the internet rather than getting on with our lives.

It all makes so much sense now. The reason you got so uncomfortable is because you think I'm being racist. Lighten up and take my questioning of it for what it was.

I completely understand your opinion, that's why I can point out fairly articulately how ridiculous it is.

Oh lord, here we go again!

 

[Sn4ke_911]

 

[Screaming Meat]

It all makes so much sense now. The reason you got so uncomfortable is because you think I'm being racist. Lighten up and take my questioning of it for what it was.

This was addressed at the very start of our conversation:

Uncomfortable? Why? I'm not being racist or anything.

What makes me uncomfortable is how the race of the enemy is even an issue.

As I said earlier, everyone has made their point, we're simply going around in circles. We clearly both don't want to carry this on but neither of us can seem to get off this crazy ride. We've shit the thread up enough.

Like my grandpappy used to say: "Let the asshole have the last word."

Kaz, I'm already an asshole.

 

[Palpable]

What makes me uncomfortable is how the race of the enemy is even an issue.

I must've overlooked this. Alright, what if every single member in the Soviet Ground Force during this time, in the game, were Chinese and Indian. Every single one. Oh and let's add that they all speak Tagalog with a German accent. Would it not be an issue for you at all? Would you say, "well this game has (insert sci-fi stuff because this series being sci-fi and having sci-fi stuff is weird) so this isn't an issue", and you wouldn't bat an eyelash? If you could overlook something like that, then I suppose this conversation is done, because you'd undoubtedly be in the minority.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I must've overlooked this. Alright, what if every single member in the Soviet Ground Force during this time, in the game, were Chinese and Indian. Every single one. Oh and let's add that they all speak Tagalog with a German accent. Would it not be an issue for you at all? Would you say, "well this game has (insert sci-fi stuff because this series being sci-fi and having sci-fi stuff is weird) so this isn't an issue", and you wouldn't bat an eyelash? If you could overlook something like that, then I suppose this conversation is done, because you'd undoubtedly be in the minority.

You didn't really get the last bit of my last post, did you? XD

Since we're being civil again (even though it is my fault it went a bit "dark"), and even though this really isn't comparable to the Soviet Army having a few afro-Russian soldiers IN ANY WAY, I'll bite.

It's a sci-fi game built around an alternate retelling of the history behind history, right? At least, that's been the case since MGS3. That's where some of the game's best world building comes from for me, like the shutting down of the Turkish Missile silos and the real reason behind the Cuban Missile Crisis stuff. So, if anything, I'd LOVE to hear the Codec conversation where Kaz explains it all:

• How during WW2 the German forces managed to defend against the original Russian onslaught and secretly expand their Eastern front into northern India (with the aid of sympathetic members of the revolutionary Indian independence movement), China (with the promise of support against the Japanese) and the Philippines (they didn't argue).
  
• How this added expansion and the arrogance behind it caused the German forces to be so stretched that they were unable to fight both Russia's second offensive and the Allies continued pressure of their Western front, culminating ultimately in Germany's defeat, led by The Boss and the Cobra Units infiltration of Berlin.
  
• I'd love to hear how Russia managed to continue to occupy northern India, Northern China and the Philippines as part of the region's Domino Effect (part of Russia's move to unite Europe and Asia into a super-state) well into the 60s.
  
• How they trained the very best troops in those areas to become the deadly 18th Tagalog Unit, AKA"Anino Yunit" AKA "Tagalog Tengu" (the unit's leader, Ito Brun happened to be a half-German and half-Japanese Communist defector). How the Russians overcame the disparate nationalities of the unit by teaching them all Tagalog, both so the soldiers understood each other on the battlefield and so their enemies didn't due to the relative obscurity of the language at the time.
  
• How this deadly unit, used in many Russian skirmishes since, were feared by Western forces and reviled by the Soviet soldiers for their particularly cruel tactics. How they were considered shadows on the battlefield using the amalgamated martial artistry of the Chinese with the Guerrilla tactics of Indian revolutionaries to strike fear into their opponents. How it was said that merely hearing their twisted, whispered Tagalog with the weird German tint would put the fear of God in all who stood in their way.

Etc.

So, yes. I'd be fine with it.

EDIT: I forgot to tie it up at the end: I'd like to hear about how their maniacal leader, Ito Brun, in a fit of rage at the insolence of a Soviet officer sent to inspect the unit, killed him causing the unit to be sent to the arse-end of Afghanistan on mere protection duty.

Then I'd like to hear BB ask Kaz how he knows so much about the secret unit and for Kaz to confess that Ito Brun is in fact his half brother! *DUN DUN DUN*

...of course, Kaz couldn't explain any of this because he's being tortured.

 

[Palpable]

Like I said, Meat, you'd be in the minority.

Bottom line is that I asked about the black soldier in the Red Army because I was curious. I now know the history behind it, and if there are black soldiers in the game, it isn't an inaccuracy.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Like I said, Meat, you'd be in the minority.

And as I said to you, your (ridiculously extreme) example isn't even comparable to their being a smattering of Afro-Ruskies in the Soviet Army in 80s Afghanistan, so I'm not entirely sure what point you were trying to make.

Incidentally, I'm actually super disappointed they aren't Chinese and Indians who speak Tagalog with German accents after having written that out. I'd love to hear Kojima's explanation for it.

Bottom line is that I asked about the black soldier in the Red Army because I was curious. I now know the history behind it, and if there are black soldiers in the game, it isn't an inaccuracy.

Out of interest, did you actually read any of the sources I linked about Afro-Russians?