You still need to get the timing right obviously. The advantage is that when a Mastiff is going to grab you, instead of dodging backwards and still getting grabbed while recovering from your dodge, you dodge around him.
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Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance |OT| A Blade Forged In Platinum [LAW OF THE WILD]
- Thread starter ScraftyDevil
- Start date
You still need to get the timing right obviously. The advantage is that when a Mastiff is going to grab you, instead of dodging backwards and still getting grabbed while recovering from your dodge, you dodge around him.
Nobody would have the No Damage trophy.
Awesome. Thanks for the info!
I want something kind of along those lines, probably more in line with Devil May Cry's bloody palace. A few levels of regular goons, a boss, then repeat with a different boss at the end.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I'm of the opinion that the camera is so frustrating because of how the mechanics work myself.
and I can only suggest to fix what I think I adequately understand.(Which is the application of the mechanics as a player) Alot of people are going "fix the camera" but I see few suggesting what actually needs to be changed to make it more functional. and more importantly thinking about why they chose the perspective they did in the first place.
I think the reason Rising's perspective is the way it is has alot to do with Blade Mode. I don't think Bayonetta's camera would be the same if it had to shift to a behind the back perspective constantly at the press of a button or if it had less open arena/level design, so saying the camera should work like Bayonetta's isn't a real solution to me.
This is reminding me of a thread idea I had on discussing camera angle design in video games because alot of people seem to think camera is just a "one size fits all" kind of thing and that developers don't take perspective into consideration when designing content and tuning gameplay. That devs just magically make it good or bad completely independent of the design of the rest of the game
Well I think the reason Offensive Defense and Parry work so well together is that they share an input
Spring-Loaded
Member
The auto-correct and inability to phase through objects doesn't have anything to do with design philosophy of the game. It just sours all the game mechanics, which work fine when the camera isn't swinging around because I'm too close to a wall; it's awesome when I can keep track of where attacks are coming from and block/parry/dodge them all in succession without just being able to turtle by holding a button.
Plenty of people have already mentioned those problems and I don't see how having the camera a constant distance away from Raiden outside of blade mode would make the transition between the two a considerable problem.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Okay after VR 18, I can say without a shadow of a doubt this game has THE worst camera in any game. I'm sorry MGR your great and I love you but you are not perfect. So frustrating.
I actually think the camera could stay where it is in regards to being fairly close to Raiden himself. Just remove the auto-correct stuff & allow it to phase through geometry so things don't get cramped.
In regards to off screen enemies, why not just put some kind of alert or something near the side of a screen to indicate an incoming attack? Or for a second idea, why not use the radar to indicate incoming attacks? Have the enemy indicator on the radar flash red or yellow to signify an incoming attack.
In regards to off screen enemies, why not just put some kind of alert or something near the side of a screen to indicate an incoming attack? Or for a second idea, why not use the radar to indicate incoming attacks? Have the enemy indicator on the radar flash red or yellow to signify an incoming attack.
Net_Wrecker
Member
The camera doesn't need to be pulled back that much to make a difference. Look at the fights against bigger enemies and how the camera subtly moves gives you a wider field of view. The zoom transition to blade mode isn't jarring during those fights at all. That distance / height + allowing the camera to go through walls + no auto-correct would make it play a lot tighter.
On top of that the Zandatsu camera movement resets your camera angle to the default view which forces you to babysit the right stick in preparation for the next parry. I'd like them to get rid of that and, instead, transition back to where the camera was when the player initiated blade mode.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Doesn't really change enemy cross ups and off screen attacks though.
I'm not saying the camera couldn't be better but it's hardly the only problem with the game from which 99% of its issues stem from, and I've already outlined why I think that at length so I mean if you don't agree you don't agree.
ZoE alert ring would be pretty godlike for this game in its current form, but I'm not sure I want a more complicated HUD going forward to serve a mechanic I already feel is more complicated than it needs to be
That wouldn't be a bad idea. Didnt Metal Gear solid 4 use some kind of sound ring around Snake too if he was idle?
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
Yeah, the threat ring. That could actually work.
call_kotaku
Member
Yay got my S-rank in revengeance diff. against Sundowner. I didn't want to just dodge him repeatedly for a 50 hit combo so I did all the panel cutting and chopper-shooting and zandatsuing to get the bonuses. A much more satisfying fight when it's all said and done, I honestly wish the second phase lasted longer because there's a lot of interesting variety. While it's nice that you can cheese him so easily should you choose to do so, there's a ton of stuff in that fight that's meant to prepare you for chapter 7, which could've gone a long way towards easing people into those fights.
No problem.
The camera has a ton of very easily addressed issues and a couple of some more complicated ones, but there are a lot of specific changes that could be made for the camera to better suit the game. The inability for the camera to phase through walls has been brought up again and again, and really it's what exacerbates the rest of the problems. I don't know the technical limitations of the Platinum engine, but there's no reason why the camera should behave this way. The lock-on isn't a true Hard Lock either, it's just a variable that prevents the soft lock from changing targets unless the lock is forcibly broken, but it's not anything close to reliable or predictable. Most of the changes people are proposing are relatively straightfoward and I feel that it's what the camera in this game is already trying to do, but is stymied by its limitations. If anything, the reason this gets brought up so often is that PG chose to let enemies do whatever they want from off-screen, which was a pretty drastic decision. If they went the DmC route and didn't let offscreen enemies attack, it would've given them a lot more leeway for a wonky camera setup, but I hope they choose instead to design a better camera for MGR2.
for the off screen attacks, like the mastiff smash, they can put red lines like in the prologue, when the ray tries to stomp you.
I dont get why they didnt do that.
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
I didn't notice this until fighting Monsoon on Revengence mode, the camera and the lock-on went to WAR with each other.
Yeah, it's really not rocked science to fix that sort of stuff. Letting the player get one-shot by an instant offscreen attack is inexcusable.
Spring-Loaded
Member
All of those off-screen attacks are not fundamentally a problem. I can only speak from experience, but I can keep track of mastiffs wall-jump attacks since I can see which direction they jump, so I know where they'll be coming from. Even if I don't parry them, I'm able to block... except when the camera goes buck wild and I lose track.
Saying the parry system turns MGR into a passive game, doesn't make much sense either. Even if you're sitting around waiting for a parry (instead of just attempting one when the opportunity arises), you still have to do it at the right time, same with blocking. I don't see how that's less active than defense in other games where you just have a button you hold to negate all attacks.
Again, if you don't like the implementation of parrying in this game, fine. It's not the source of the problem though considering it works fine in open areas when you don't need to readjust the camera.
Anyway, parry discussion aside (putting it on the attack button is royally stupid, no matter how much you guys will try to defend it since Raiden freaks out at critical moments with it): No-damaged Armstrong finally on Very Hard.
Whoever had that infinite blade mode wig tactic of him healing: I love you. Incredibly cheese but fuck it, it's safe. You can get a 400 hit combo on him while hacking away .1-.6% at a time in just the FIRST heal round. If you're good you could get him down to 0.1% in that bit depending on you dodging/when he activates that heal. Otherwise he'll be down to like 30% and then do another heal where you can ATATATATATATATATATATATA in blade mode again to 0.1% then it's a matter of doing the blade mode boxes quickly to end it.
Leaves Revengence S-ranks and the VR missions along with whenever Sam and Bladewolf come out for platinum in the game. Yay. :/ (I seriously don't want to try to S-rank R-00 since that stupid opening fight is stupid on Very Hard. Revengence seems like it'd just annoy me even more)
Whoever had that infinite blade mode wig tactic of him healing: I love you. Incredibly cheese but fuck it, it's safe. You can get a 400 hit combo on him while hacking away .1-.6% at a time in just the FIRST heal round. If you're good you could get him down to 0.1% in that bit depending on you dodging/when he activates that heal. Otherwise he'll be down to like 30% and then do another heal where you can ATATATATATATATATATATATA in blade mode again to 0.1% then it's a matter of doing the blade mode boxes quickly to end it.
Leaves Revengence S-ranks and the VR missions along with whenever Sam and Bladewolf come out for platinum in the game. Yay. :/ (I seriously don't want to try to S-rank R-00 since that stupid opening fight is stupid on Very Hard. Revengence seems like it'd just annoy me even more)
MidnightCowboy
Member
Is there a secret to beating Armstrong? I'm getting absolutely demolished, I just don't have enough health to last long. I try to block everything I can, but the fight still doesn't last long when I can die in two hits. 
This is way harder than any of the other bosses.
This is way harder than any of the other bosses.Is there a secret to beating Armstrong? I'm getting absolutely demolished, I just don't have enough health to last long. I try to block everything I can, but the fight still doesn't last long when I can die in two hits.
Offensive Dodge nearly everything, Ripper mode now and then (since this is your first time just let it run out) and pray a little bit since sometimes the camera/Raiden will freak out and make you eat an attack when you know you could've blocked that attack/dodged that attack if the parry/dodge system was fixed up.
As for the throwing sequence first-time, don't bother: Just run at him. Then start hacking away again.
It takes a while but so long as you manage your health (don't get hit so often) it's doable.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Well most of my complaints stem from playing the game on higher difficulties and for Ranks, where parrying and not taking damage are at times the easiest methods to reliably get the fastest clear times in the most risk free way.
I agree I think the mechanics work alot better on lower difficulties where you aren't concerned about clearing the wave in under a 1:30 or taking a stray bullet. but I think these games should be designed to work well at both levels.
because it's entirely dependent on enemy behavior. On Revengeance getting the fastest possible clear time in the Sam encounter has more to do with Sam giving me the move I want to parry ASAP rather than my skill as a player.
but this is a problem with the mechanic itself rather than the input
Right but my point is that it doesn't work in those other situations, and that I think it would work if it instead functioned the way I suggested.
Spring-Loaded
Member
But they do work. I believe you said you try to parry right when the red flash occurs, but that's only an indication that the attack is coming. The majority of all attacks can be parried, it just takes timing.
I screw it up a lot too, but the fact that it can be done means I know it's a matter of timing rather than luck. Higher attack frequency in Revengeance actually helps here, at least outside of bosses.
The system needs to be polished/augmented. It is not fundamentally flawed because for me and a lot of other people, it works (when the camera is in the way).
I screw it up a lot too, but the fact that it can be done means I know it's a matter of timing rather than luck. Higher attack frequency in Revengeance actually helps here, at least outside of bosses.
The system needs to be polished/augmented. It is not fundamentally flawed because for me and a lot of other people, it works (when the camera is in the way).
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
...What?
I think we've gotten sidetracked as I'm not sure what position you think I hold.(the actual timing was never my complaint. in fact my suggestion essentially makes the mechanic purely about timing by throwing out the directional input.)
I think we've gotten sidetracked as I'm not sure what position you think I hold.(the actual timing was never my complaint. in fact my suggestion essentially makes the mechanic purely about timing by throwing out the directional input.)
MidnightCowboy
Member
Thanks for the advice, but I think I'm just going to put the controller down for a while before I rage destroy it. I really think if I just had even one health item I could beat him, maybe I'll restart the level.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
50 hit combo is actually easily gotten by launch looping him. (You can launch Sundowner until his health drops below 50% with sky high or whatever, then just beat the shit out of him while he recovers before doing it again)
Easiest boss fight in the game made even easier lol
I just infinite juggle him.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
The helicopter scares me too much for that
Spring-Loaded
Member
Whoops, that was TheSeks who said he had trouble with timing. If they get rid of the directional input, then fine. I still think it adds a welcome challenge to have to tap in the right direction.
After his initial attack, you can shoot down the helicopter with a rocket without Sundowner attacking. It only takes one shot.
And once you float him, you can continually use the sai in midair and never touch the ground until you initiate the slider sequence.
call_kotaku
Member
Yeah I knew about the launch exploit against him, but it just becomes completely uninteresting to fight him. In the future, if I'm fighting Mistral or Bladewolf I think I'll avoid using the buffed revengeance parry and ripper mode since it pretty much one hit kills both bosses. Ripper mode -> Stinger to instantly break Mistral's staff is fun at first but sorta defeats the point of the fight, and killing bladewolf before he can even summon the gekko is pretty extreme as well. Hell, I'll probably even avoid pincers and EMP grenades against Monsoon, but atleast he gets a chance to show his stuff before getting completely murdered.
Oh and also, GRAD melee attacks are one of the notable exceptions to the "parry as soon as it turns orange" rule, which makes them pretty tricky to fight without stunlock shenanigans.
Oh and also, GRAD melee attacks are one of the notable exceptions to the "parry as soon as it turns orange" rule, which makes them pretty tricky to fight without stunlock shenanigans.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Welp time to try this out
I destroy the helicopter first and usually finish him before the second one appears.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I feel strongly about this. Directional inputs are a major part of what makes the parry system appealing to me. Keeps me on my toes.
For instance, Monsoon's smoke screen sequence wouldn't be nearly as engaging if I simply had to stand still and tap a single button to block his 360° ambush. Having to manually face each one of his attacks was part of the thrill. It was a very memorable moment where the game's mechanics suddenly clicked on a different level for me. I saw the value of why the designers chose that direction.
toastyToast
Member
Aw yeah! Got my vocal CD after customs probably played the shit out of it for the last week. Amazon packed it in a regular ass envelope and the case looks ragged as fuck.
This shit is so hype, the tracks are criminally short though. Might have to loop everything once
This shit is so hype, the tracks are criminally short though. Might have to loop everything once
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah I had no clue about this Sai method
pretty dope
Should come as no surprise that I hate that move
not because of the directionals but because it's such a waste of time. I hate all the moves Monsoon has that make you stop damaging him to play one of his minigames
Easiest way to get the consecutive parry trophy though
Was thinking about Raiden v Bayonetta gameplay styles
Came to the conclusion that B, despite being a similar-esque brawler/character action, focuses a lot more on ranged attacks for best play. Dodge offset into panther to get breathing room and space is a lot easier than Raiden lockdown. Combos become essentially magic spells to get to dat sweet Wicked Weaves (unless fighting faster enemies like the Lions or Gracious and Glorious, where each individual shot p/combo p/weapon is immensely valuable). Meanwhile Raiden play is a lot more methodical in nature; parry, parry, dodge, etc, precision zandatsus. Different style of play, also probably related to no instant weapon switching on-the-fly as well.
Main thing I was thinking of though was that dodge is a lot, lot easier in B because of Bat Within and Panther mode when compared with parries, primarily because of the lack of need of directional inputs and because you can transition into a space-gaining move (Panther) with ease.
Came to the conclusion that B, despite being a similar-esque brawler/character action, focuses a lot more on ranged attacks for best play. Dodge offset into panther to get breathing room and space is a lot easier than Raiden lockdown. Combos become essentially magic spells to get to dat sweet Wicked Weaves (unless fighting faster enemies like the Lions or Gracious and Glorious, where each individual shot p/combo p/weapon is immensely valuable). Meanwhile Raiden play is a lot more methodical in nature; parry, parry, dodge, etc, precision zandatsus. Different style of play, also probably related to no instant weapon switching on-the-fly as well.
Main thing I was thinking of though was that dodge is a lot, lot easier in B because of Bat Within and Panther mode when compared with parries, primarily because of the lack of need of directional inputs and because you can transition into a space-gaining move (Panther) with ease.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Sam DLC/Prep for Sam DLC I'd imagine.
PS3 didn't get VER.2 until DLC missions so I always assumed that's what that was
Very hard mode all s-ranks: done
It was a lot easier than I anticipated, apart from the final boss. Damn he was a bitch to no-damage (without usingcheat-codes wigs). He's extremely simple on hard and revengeance because he has barely the time to do anything, but on very hard he's on a whole other level. Getting him to ~70% health is relatively simple (combo him non stop until he drops to below 150%, cut the debris to take him down below 130%, take him below 100% during his healing phase, and cut the debris a second time), but then getting him down to 50% (to make him go into his second healing phase) was really hard for me. I kept messing up stupidly.
His slide kick is really annoying because if you dodge it at the last moment like you would for any other attack, your sword hit him and stun you for a split second, leaving you defenseless against the kick.
It was a lot easier than I anticipated, apart from the final boss. Damn he was a bitch to no-damage (without using
His slide kick is really annoying because if you dodge it at the last moment like you would for any other attack, your sword hit him and stun you for a split second, leaving you defenseless against the kick.
toastyToast
Member
Sundowner's theme with the vocals is surprisingly good. Probably my 3rd favourite behind It Has to Be This Way and Stranger I've Become
Shame I never heard it in the game lol
Shame I never heard it in the game lol
Yeah Sundowner goes down a bit too quickly. I'm on my fourth playthrough and I've never seen him grabbing and swinging those pipes.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
The more I play the more I'm finding the combat system is actually deeper than than first realized. I still have a problem with dodging though.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
The more I play the more I'm finding the combat system is actually deeper than than first realized. I still have a problem with dodging though.
first few frames are invincible
the parry on the other hand, just point toward the attacker
0.33 seconds of invincibility actually. You can also cancel out of a dodge with a parry to give even more invulnerability time.
Spring-Loaded
Member
They should've given him more health and made him essentially invulnerable until you remove the shields. The first time I fought him, it was notably easier than the Mistral/Monsoon fights, but it was still a challenge to not get blown up while trying to cut his shields off. The fact that he doesn't constantly face you when he has them out is just silly.
He also should've had nunchaku functionality with his blades because it would've been awesome
Okay, just beat the game on Hard. Final boss was great - in fact, all bosses were. That boss music!
Loved the gameplay. As much as the PR puts blade mode forward, parry/evade are really the mainstay of the gameplay.
Absolutely loved it. Very strong contender for my GOTY right there.
Loved the gameplay. As much as the PR puts blade mode forward, parry/evade are really the mainstay of the gameplay.
Absolutely loved it. Very strong contender for my GOTY right there.
Killing_Joke
Member
Yeah, i fucking suck.
Up to the last boss battle on normal with 0 damn health refills. The funny part is that those huge rocks keep killing. I didn't use manual Blade all game because I suck at it. Now I have no choice?! (unless I'm missing something).I'm probably doing something wrong but damn I didn't think normal mode would be this tough for beginners.
Game is fun as hell. 5 hours is WAYYYY too short though. I know it went through development hell but geez.
Up to the last boss battle on normal with 0 damn health refills. The funny part is that those huge rocks keep killing. I didn't use manual Blade all game because I suck at it. Now I have no choice?! (unless I'm missing something).I'm probably doing something wrong but damn I didn't think normal mode would be this tough for beginners.
Game is fun as hell. 5 hours is WAYYYY too short though. I know it went through development hell but geez.
Yeah, i fucking suck.
Up to the last boss battle on normal with 0 damn health refills. The funny part is that those huge rocks keep killing. I didn't use manual Blade all game because I suck at it. Now I have no choice?! (unless I'm missing something).I'm probably doing something wrong but damn I didn't think normal mode would be this tough for beginners.
Game is fun as hell. 5 hours is WAYYYY too short though. I know it went through development hell but geez.
It's on the short side, but it's such a fun rollercoaster ride the entire way through. It took me 8 hours to complete the first time through (on Hard, though). Are you listening to some codecs? You're basing it on your save clock and not the final time clock, right? Most people are misinformed about the internal game clocks and assume that it only took hem 4-5 hours to complete when it didn't.
As for the final boss, you can run from the debris throwing if you want to. Otherwise, you can just go to Chapter Select, farm some Nanopaste and then redo Chapter 8.
call_kotaku
Member
Is this Saito's debut game as a director? If so it's probably the best debut game for a young Japanese director I recall from recent history.
Got the Stormbringer trophy, letting the adrenalin wash off while I listen to the credits song now. Hilariously enough the final boss's worst phase was the second one, since the cartwheel is so unreliable, even with the "option select" strategy of running to opposite corners. I S-ed the third form on the fourth try, but it took me a couple hours to get past the second phase. I even did the cutting sections for kicks to make it go faster, it's much more lenient than sundowner's shield cutting.
Got the Stormbringer trophy, letting the adrenalin wash off while I listen to the credits song now. Hilariously enough the final boss's worst phase was the second one, since the cartwheel is so unreliable, even with the "option select" strategy of running to opposite corners. I S-ed the third form on the fourth try, but it took me a couple hours to get past the second phase. I even did the cutting sections for kicks to make it go faster, it's much more lenient than sundowner's shield cutting.