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[secretanchitman]

Man, I love Twin Snakes, though it was my first time playing a Metal Gear game. I remember being so psyched that it was coming to the GameCube.

I then went on to beat MGS2 on my PC. Haven't played any other Metal Gear's though, so that's why I'm picking this up. One of my friends is always shocked that I haven't played MGS3.

i was the exact same way man. twin snakes was my first experience for mgs, then i got mgs2 for pc, then i actually bought mgs3 for $10 but i didnt even play it (ended up letting my friend borrow it) as i got really busy throughout the schoolyear.

i know mgs3 is a hell of a game - im excited to finally play it.

 

[TUROK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udUQ8U1STQQ

This alone vindicates any weird Snake flips in MGS:TTS.

 

[Angry Fork]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl8U5BiU0q8&t=6s

This one bothered me so much. It's like, why is this shit necessary.

rofl

 

[Skilletor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl8U5BiU0q8&t=6s

This one bothered me so much. It's like, why is this shit necessary.

LOL!

I've never played twin snakes. That was fucking hilarious. It just looked dumb.

Another "What's the point" cutscene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4CTBIo0Mxk#t=2m40s

even more lols!

Wtf is this shit?

 

[SamuraiX-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udUQ8U1STQQ

This alone vindicates any weird Snake flips in MGS:TTS.

The animations and acrobatics are more fun to watch, sure, but the delivery and emotion from the characters in the original were much better presented and made that scene feel way more powerful.

 

[jett]

The animations and acrobatics are more fun to watch, sure, but the delivery and emotion from the characters in the original were much better presented and made that scene feel way more powerful.

Exactly.


Twin Snakes scene is also missing The Best Is Yet To Come. There's just no comparison, despite the pretty acrobatics.

 

[Chinner]

if you honestly want to play mgs1 again then just play mgs1. its surprising how good that game still is. still better than pretty much the majority of games released. you're better off playing mgs1 and not tts or konamis inevitable (and terrible) mgs1 remake.

Exactly.

so good.

 

[Angry Fork]

Exactly.


Twin Snakes scene is also missing The Best Is Yet To Come. There's just no comparison, despite the pretty acrobatics.

Dat music in the middle of the vid =(

Damn, I love MGS so much even after MGS4 I still want a new one. But with completely different characters. Reboot the series but stay in the same universe, maybe mention a few characters from the Snake universe but not have them as main people.

Rising is probably going to be completely different (and worse) than the MGS series I'm used to.

 

[TUROK]

The animations and acrobatics are more fun to watch, sure, but the delivery and emotion from the characters in the original were much better presented and made that scene feel way more powerful.

Personally, Grey Fox sounding just like the DARPA Chief in the original took me out of the scene completely.

Also, the delivery of "a cornered fox is more dangerous than a jackal" is much better in TTS than in the original. Hell, the whole speech about Naomi is more emotional in TTS. Hits the emotional highs and lows in all the right places.

 

[Emily Chu]

Personally, Grey Fox sounding just like the DARPA Chief in the original took me out of the scene completely.

did you just ruin the game for me ???!


I hate u *runs away*

 

[Ridley327]

Yeah, it was weird that they had Greg Eagles play both the DARPA Chief and Gray Fox, but it was even weirder that they brought him back again to play Stillman in MGS2.

I guess all black people sounded the same to Kojima!

 

[d0c_zaius]

just finished my first MGS2 HD run going for the no alert trophy.

Heads up,

Spoiler

there are 3 unavoidable alerts. 1 doesn't even show up as alert mode during the Emma sniper sequence, and 2 come later when fighting with Snake

.

I really forgot how awkward some moments of MGS2 are. It doesn't matter though as I always find myself compelled to finish it in one sitting.

 

[Ridley327]

Ooooh, I have a question for you: Greg Miller on IGN mentioned that MGS2 had some texture warping issues. Did you notice this happening a lot or is it kept to a minimum?

 

[SamuraiX-]

Exactly.


Twin Snakes scene is also missing The Best Is Yet To Come. There's just no comparison, despite the pretty acrobatics.

Ah, yes. And the music too, of course. No idea what drove them to remove TBIYTC. That stuff makes any scene better.

Also, another thing I noticed is that the static, no-eyed faces in MGS1 can sometimes contribute more to the scenes since it sometimes forces the players to imagine what their expressions would be like.

In TTS, Snake and Fox looked almost bored talking to each other when you look at the expressions on their faces. The poor delivery of the script from the VAs probably contributed to this for me.

Personally, Grey Fox sounding just like the DARPA Chief in the original took me out of the scene completely.

Also, the delivery of "a cornered fox is more dangerous than a jackal" is much better in TTS than in the original. Hell, the whole speech about Naomi is more emotional in TTS. Hits the emotional highs and lows in all the right places.

LOLno.

Sorry, but there isn't even any subjectivity to this. Fox and Snake in the TTS version sound like they're trying to hard with their dialogue.

 

[slayzz]

Sorry, but there isn't even any subjectivity to this. Fox and Snake in the TTS version sound like they're trying to hard with their dialogue.

Agree I like the delivery on the original's dialogue more. I feel like TTS they are trying too hard.

 

[SkylineRKR]

TTS was some sort of a wreckage. The moves Snake did in the cutscenes was completely out of sync with what you could do in-game. Sure, you could never do all the stuff he did in cutscenes but this was pushing it. The FPS mode and tranqs fucked the balance up, because the rest surrounding all that wasn't adjusted.

Really, TTS disappointed me. I played it quite a few years after MGS2 on Ps2 and also visually it absolutely didn't hold up to that one. Lots of framedrops as well IIRC. I did like one thing though, there was no keycard temperature bullshit.

 

[Ridley327]

TTS was certainly no MGS2 when it came to the graphics. I was always a bit baffled by the decision to have SK develop the game, since their graphical prowess has always been a bit lacking.

And that's being really generous.

But hey, bump-mapped Meryl tits.

 

[DMeisterJ]

TTS retroactively makes MGS1 a bad game by souring your memories of amazing scenes from MGS1 with over the top BS. So when you put on your nostalgia goggles for MGS, scenes from TTS keep popping into your head. Luckily, I never had the pleasure of seeing more than a little bit of it in action when I realized it wasn't worth my eyes being open.

 

[Wario64]

Exactly.


Twin Snakes scene is also missing The Best Is Yet To Come. There's just no comparison, despite the pretty acrobatics.

I always wanted to ask this question. At 2:19, is there a reason why the camera pans to the item on the ground?

 

[SkylineRKR]

I remember TTS not even featuring any VR missions? So technically it had less to offer than the Ps1 version

There were dogtags, but collecting them served no purpose I think.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Is it just me or why didn't they include MGS1 in that whole package?
I want it in HD on a disc. Not via PSN...

 

[TUROK]

LOLno.

Sorry, but there isn't even any subjectivity to this. Fox and Snake in the TTS version sound like they're trying to hard with their dialogue.

What does that even mean? Trying too hard?

Of course there's subjectivity to it. You're braindead to think otherwise. It's all a matter of opinion, if you mistakenly believe it to be fact.

 

[Ridley327]

I remember TTS not even featuring any VR missions? So technically it had less to offer than the Ps1 version

There were dogtags, but collecting them served no purpose I think.

That is correct, yes. The only thing it had over the PS1 version was that the mission briefing files were rendered in-game as opposed to extreme close-ups of Shinkawa's art of blonde Snake.

 

[Theonik]

To me one of the things that makes TTS is laughing Dyack and Kojima. TTS was ridiculous especially taking the original game into consideration.

 

[Ridley327]

Oh man, have those ever been gif'd? The ones for Kojima and Dyack would be useful, I think.

 

[Wario64]

That is correct, yes. The only thing it had over the PS1 version was that the mission briefing files were rendered in-game as opposed to extreme close-ups of Shinkawa's art of blonde Snake.

I still prefer the original briefings. It made it look more gritty than that real time crap.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Exactly.


Twin Snakes scene is also missing The Best Is Yet To Come. There's just no comparison, despite the pretty acrobatics.

The Best is Yet to Come IS in the game. Did you not complete it?

 

[Criminal Upper]

Except for Snake. It's like the people that defend the cutscenes in Twin Snakes have decided to completely ignore why people dislike them. Snake has always been somewhat grounded in Kojima's games. Despite being a clone he's meant to be a normal soldier that's able to overcome insane odds. Yet in Twin Snake's he's kick flipping off missiles and flipping over slabs of concrete. It also took away from how cool Ninja was supposed to be. He doesn't exactly stand out when Snake can do all the same shit that he can do.

Except, that in the original cut of Twin Snakes cutscenes, Kojima was like, "All you did was remake the first game, douchebags! You gotta make him flip over shit, make it crazy!"

TTS detractor's constantly say it doesn't fit with what Kojima did before, and it like, shits all over his legacy, even though it was Kojima who ordered it to be crazy awesome in the first place.

 

[OG Kush]

No reviews or people with early copies yet?

 

[corrosivefrost]

I remember TTS not even featuring any VR missions? So technically it had less to offer than the Ps1 version

There were dogtags, but collecting them served no purpose I think.

I don't remember my PSX copy having VR missions, though I could have ignored them as I never really liked them... I do remember them making a full release of VR missions, which baffled me, as I never thought people would pay money for it (and it was apparently very successfully and well received).

Why are we ever complaining/debating TTS again? It has no bearing on the HD collection since it's not included, correct?

 

[Lupin the Third]

Except, that in the original cut of Twin Snakes cutscenes, Kojima was like, "All you did was remake the first game, douchebags! You gotta make him flip over shit, make it crazy!"

TTS detractor's constantly say it doesn't fit with what Kojima did before, and it like, shits all over his legacy, even though it was Kojima who ordered it to be crazy awesome in the first place.

Yeah I mentioned that earlier but people in the thread mostly decided to not respond to that part of my post.

Your post will probably be "overlooked" as well.

EDITL It's true: TTS has no VR missions, something I was kind of bummed about back in 2003 or whenever it came out. The originam MGS has a *few* VR missions, but the vast majority are on the separate VR Missions/Special Missions game disc.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Except, that in the original cut of Twin Snakes cutscenes, Kojima was like, "All you did was remake the first game, douchebags! You gotta make him flip over shit, make it crazy!"

TTS detractor's constantly say it doesn't fit with what Kojima did before, and it like, shits all over his legacy, even though it was Kojima who ordered it to be crazy awesome in the first place.

Indeed. He hired Kitamura for a reason.

 

[jett]

The Best is Yet to Come IS in the game. Did you not complete it?

I was talking about that scene in particular.

 

[icespide]

playing MGS1 right now to increase my hype for this. so excited

 

[Lupin the Third]

I was talking about that scene in particular.

Gotcha.

 

[slayzz]

Yeah I mentioned that earlier but people in the thread mostly decided to not respond to that part of my post.

Your post will probably be "overlooked" as well.

EDITL It's true: TTS has no VR missions, something I was kind of bummed about back in 2003 or whenever it came out. The originam MGS has a *few* VR missions, but the vast majority are on the separate VR Missions/Special Missions game disc.

Just because Kojima want them to make snake do crazy flips and shit doesn't mean we have to like it.

You think Kojima is ok with the changes, so we should automatically like the games?

 

[jooey]

You think Kojima is ok with the changes, so we should automatically like the games?

Not at all, but maybe if you stop and try to see shit from another perspective, or learn some facts for once in your life you won't be quite so kneejerk in the end.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Just because Kojima want them to make snake do crazy flips and shit doesn't mean we have to like it.

You think Kojima is ok with the changes, so we should like the games?

I'm not even saying I like everything about TTS myself. That is not my argument.

My argument is that people say it's completely inconsistent with Kojima's version, THEREFORE it doesn't count/is garbage/isn't canon/whatever. But Kojima requested said changes to be made.

Everyone's entitled to dislike it for whatever reason, and it's far from perfect, but it's not some horrible travesty of game development either and I get kinda sick of all the hyperbole.

 

[Ridley327]

Indeed. He hired Kitamura for a reason.

What does it say that Kitamura wanted them to be more restrained?!

 

[slayzz]

Not at all, but maybe if you stop and try to see shit from another perspective, or learn some facts for once in your life you won't be quite so kneejerk in the end.

wat? learn some facts once in my life?

what does that even mean.

 

[Veidt]

This shitty cover. Plus the fact that this is coming out later in Europe for no real reason, means I will unfortunately not buy this any time soon. Maybe if it's on a discount or something.

 

[Lupin the Third]

What does it say that Kitamura wanted them to be more restrained?!

The article/report/interview (whatever it was) said that Kitamura did some early demo tests with the cut scenes, trying to faithfully recreate the Kojima version he respected. He presented what he had to Kojima for approval. Kojima rejected them and told him something to the effect of, "You're just redoing what I did! I brought you on board to bring new blood into the project--to give it a new flavor. Now go and do that Kitamura stuff you do!" And so it was.

Edit:
From a Gamers.com interview that is no longer accessible:

Gamers.com: We heard how Mr. Miyamoto introduced you to Silicon Knights, but how did Mr. Kitamura become involved with Twin Snakes?

Kojima: We were friends, and we'd always said we'd love to work together in the future someday. I don't know if you've seen the film Versus, but he's probably the man in Japan who's closest to Hollywood.

I came up with the script, obviously, so I gave him the script and asked him if he could work on Twin Snakes. Then, I asked him to take care of the cinemas. So he and his team came up with the storyboard -- he tells the actors what to do on the spot during the motion capture, he does all the direction, he basically does everything during the motion capture.

When we received the storyboards from Mr. Kitamura, it was totally different from what our original polygon demos were. Then, when we do the motion capture, it changes there. And when we put that in the final game, it changes even more. So when you see the cinemas in Twin Snakes, it'll be totally different from what you saw in the original Metal Gear. The motion capture took almost two months, including the rehearsal, and we were doing it every day. It's as much as three films, almost.

The polygon demos you see in the trailer and the playable version are the very first demos. Mr. Kitamura tried to respect my work with those, so he tried to be as loyal to the original demos as possible. So they don't look that different. But that's not what we wanted to do, so from maybe midway on, he changed it drastically -- he really explodes.

Gamers.com: In what ways does Mr. Kitamura's style differ substantially from the original game?

Kojima: Well, he said in his video message "fasten your seat belt." (laughs) My staff and the motion capture actors who worked on Metal Gear Solid 2 came to us when they saw the storyboards Mr. Kitamura had created -- they asked "Are we really going to do this? Is this okay?" I said "We're going to do it, why not?" The battle between Solid and Liquid Snake at the end of the game is...(makes excited hand gestures).

 

[Ridley327]

That's what I mean! The man made Versus, which is about the opposite of "restrained" as you're likely to find.

 

[Emily Chu]

This shitty cover. Plus the fact that this is coming out later in Europe for no real reason, means I will unfortunately not buy this any time soon. Maybe if it's on a discount or something.

lol "CLASSICS* HD*"

fucks it all up imo

 

[SamuraiX-]

I'm pretty sure, if I remember the interview correctly, Kojima simply today Kitamura that he could alter the cutscenes to his liking.

He never specifically told him to go full retard with everything.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

So uh... why are we arguing about a game that's not even in this collection?

 

[Lupin the Third]

So uh... why are we arguing about a game that's not even in this collection?

It would come up regardless.

Situation 1 (current):
A: Is MGS1 included?
B: No
C: They should include Twin Snakes since they already did that.
A+B: WTF NO

Situation 2:
A: Is MGS 1 included?
B: Yes, sort of.
A: Which version?
B: Twin Snakes, grumble grumble.
A: Grumble grumble.
C: I love that version!

Situation 3:
A: Is MGS included?
B: Yes.
A: Which version?
B: The PS1 original, remastered in HD.
C: Sounds like a waste of effort. Why didn't they just include Twin Snakes?
A+B: GTFO

 

[Yuripaw]

So uh... why are we arguing about a game that's not even in this collection?

Because people are fucking insane.

 

[infinityBCRT]

I'm pretty sure, if I remember the interview correctly, Kojima simply today Kitamura that he could alter the cutscenes to his liking.

He never specifically told him to go full retard with everything.

Theres been other interviews or perhaps it was on the KojiPro podcast (during the Ryan Payton days) that it was stated that Kojima rejected the initial cutscenes that were submitted to him. He wanted them to be different.

 

[Mr.Fresh]

playing MGS1 right now to increase my hype for this. so excited

Me too!