Huge amount of hyperbole in this post. There are probably around 7 missions in MGSV that meet that description, and that's a huge generalization for MGS 1-3 as well.
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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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Huge amount of hyperbole in this post. There are probably around 7 missions in MGSV that meet that description, and that's a huge generalization for MGS 1-3 as well.
Serpens007
Member
Honey Bee mission was pretty much a full chapter on other MGS game.
GreyOcelot
Member
yeah man, i can't get enough of it. 130+ hours now. instant classic for me.
bruh. the big shell is small as shit. it's like 10 small rooms total.
Berserker976
Member
Not really just talking about physical size
All of those "small rooms" and encounters in the Big Shell were expertly designed, leading to a whole that felt far larger than the sum of its parts.
The locations in MGSV are not nearly as "crafted" as the settings of the older games. They can't be. They have to allow for multiple points of ingress, multiple objective areas, multiple guard patrols. And since the areas themselves aren't directly tied to the story, they can't be very detailed or dynamic.
Again, these are all just things open world games have to deal with. By its nature it can't be as tightly controlled as the other games.
It is strange how people blow up the proportions of the older games in retrospective.
Shadow Moses in their memory is like this huuuge place, but in fact either big shell and shadow moses were only tiny little sandboxes compared to games like Deus Ex, or newer games like Dishonored. Please replay the games or watch a let's play: you can run from the starting point to the end in a few minutes - the rest is padding (codecs, cutscenes) with the last part of each game (MGS 1-3) being a straight action-corridor.
I remember how dissapointed I was when I realized that the guards on the tanker-level are respawning. I can't go back to this sort of gameplay design after playing MGSV.
Sure, I wish there were some huge bases to infiltrate (with interiors). I hope someone picks up the ball and is able to surpass MGSV gameplay-wise soon.
What this game needed (instead of MB) is a Metal Gear Maker Mode - just like the mission editor in Operation Flashpoint (edit little cutscenes, objectives, AI-routes,...)
BTW why didn't they use the MP Maps for side-ops?
Shadow Moses in their memory is like this huuuge place, but in fact either big shell and shadow moses were only tiny little sandboxes compared to games like Deus Ex, or newer games like Dishonored. Please replay the games or watch a let's play: you can run from the starting point to the end in a few minutes - the rest is padding (codecs, cutscenes) with the last part of each game (MGS 1-3) being a straight action-corridor.
I remember how dissapointed I was when I realized that the guards on the tanker-level are respawning. I can't go back to this sort of gameplay design after playing MGSV.
Sure, I wish there were some huge bases to infiltrate (with interiors). I hope someone picks up the ball and is able to surpass MGSV gameplay-wise soon.
What this game needed (instead of MB) is a Metal Gear Maker Mode - just like the mission editor in Operation Flashpoint (edit little cutscenes, objectives, AI-routes,...)
BTW why didn't they use the MP Maps for side-ops?
OMG, so just completed it and my head is spinning.....in a way i feel cheated that i was never the real Big Boss......but surely the Phantom Big Boss is a better solider than the real Big Boss ever was, i mean some of the shit his pulled off in this game is greater than anything in MGS3?
So from what i recall in the ending credit is says that Solid Snake actually killed Phantom Boss in the first MG, but they said the real big boss was going to form Outer Heaven and thats where solid snake went and took out BB in the first MG game ,so how took out the real big boss and what game was that in?...and was real big boss face changed or does he still look the same.
I just dont get the whole point of this, why did Kojima even bother with this plot we dont gain anything from there being a Phantom big boss do we?, it looks like is just been added so Kojima can once again fuck with us......there no plot device to it at all. I mean how would the whole story differ if we HAD been playing the real Big Boss throughout the game, the answer is it wouldnt, it was just added to make an impact
So from what i recall in the ending credit is says that Solid Snake actually killed Phantom Boss in the first MG, but they said the real big boss was going to form Outer Heaven and thats where solid snake went and took out BB in the first MG game ,so how took out the real big boss and what game was that in?...and was real big boss face changed or does he still look the same.
I just dont get the whole point of this, why did Kojima even bother with this plot we dont gain anything from there being a Phantom big boss do we?, it looks like is just been added so Kojima can once again fuck with us......there no plot device to it at all. I mean how would the whole story differ if we HAD been playing the real Big Boss throughout the game, the answer is it wouldnt, it was just added to make an impact
Inferno313
Banned
Solidus.
Oh yeah that's right. That little bitch Eli.
Stereogatari
Banned
A cargo train went by the station I was at the other day and I couldn't help but think...all those resources gone to waste.
Yeah my brain is programmed to want to Fulton every container I see now.
Eli is Liquid Snake breh.
Close enough.
Roni
Member
Before MGS3 we had static vision cones. In MGS3 vision cones were variable depending on camo index, movement speed was given greater importance when inside the enemy FOV. MGS3 changed the formula and they've been expanding on that new formula every some since. MGSV does it again with open world, marking, time of day and etc.
Wouldn't have Volgin and Psycho Mantas have know that it was the real Big Boss, sure something wouldnt have seen quiet 'right' about him, defo Psycho Mantas should have sussed it???
And what was the whole point of bring Paz back from the dead, shes not important to the story at all
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I feel the total opposite. I feel like MGSV fundamentally misses the mark and ends up being a hollow experience compared to previous games.
Tapes gave info, but pretty much exist outside of the game and are a poor replacement for codecs. Cutacenes are few and far between, and not every mission ends with one (the most maddening part of all). The story is totally absent for the first 15 hours of the game, and most missions don't feel like they hold any significance to the plot. So many significant moments happen over recorded radio plays.
Traditionally in Metal Gear, every objective you undertake is hurtling you towards the next significant plot point. You can't wait to get to the next section to unveil more of the plot. In MGSV, you start a mission to extract/kill/capture some faceless nobody the game tells you is important, only to find at the end that, nope, they're not. They're so unimportant that the resulting debriefing amounts to "Good job, Boss. You did a thing."
It's exacerbated by Chapter 2's structure, where the majority of what you do has literally no significance 90% of the time, and you're quite literally clearing out objectives in your list of faceless missions so that the plot can arbitrarily roll forward, and people other than you in places other than where you are can do something of significance.
It felt like a Metal Gear for people who don't like Metal Gear.
IMO, if this is the direction MGS was going going forward, I'm glad the series is over. I never knew why people complained about the formula before, and if this is the type of experience they wanted, they didn't really want Metal Gear. They wanted another game with Metal Year's core gameplay.
Roni
Member
You're almost right. It's an MGS for people who complained about the low production values of Peace Walker, who complained about the amount and length of cutscenes in 4, who complained about the absurdity of menus in 3 and the Raiden twist in 2.
The Silver
Member
I don't know about that last part.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Outside of Peace Walker (which I also dislike), those were all what made Metal Gear as a series special to me.
Raiden's twist in 2 is one of the ballsiest moves in gaming, and the one time when a creator roped their marketing campaign into the themes of the game (information control, creating reality through manicured lies). Absolute genius.
Roni
Member
People complained they couldn't play as Snake. Had to play as some dude. So Kojima "listened": you get to play as Snake for the entire game... Until you find out you're just a dude.
Splinter Cell has both a lightining and sound systems that work like that except better. Not to mention movement speed was incredibly important in SC because of sound and you had full analog movement while in MGS3 you have to, gasp, use the dpad to sneak on people. In MGS3 you have to enter a menu to change camo, in Splinter Cell it's all seamless because it's all about exploring the dark. The level of sound you can make until you alert enemies also depends on the environmental noise. So, if you are in a room playing music, for instance, you will be able to walk faster because the music is supressing your sound. You also have much more interaction with the environment. It's a much, much deeper stealth game.
SC was incredibly ahead of its time. It holds up remarkably well in the gameplay department. Actually, to this day there isn't a single game that offers the depth of in door stealth of Chaos Theory. Can't say the same about MGS3. Don't get me wrong, I think MGS as a whole are better games, but the stealth in SC was quite something.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
After some time, I realized that part was kind of fantastic. You get to play as yourself, and as Snake at the same time. The weirdest compromise.
I don't know, I never enjoyed the stealth in Splinter Cell, it was definitely ahead of it's time but I feel like the logic and context in which MGS Utilizes stealth is more enjoyable even if it was less indepth.
Roni
Member
I'm not arguing which is better, I'm saying MGS3 changed the formula established in the original games. The one we use to this day...
Even SC abandoned all of its features for something more similar to MGS because they proved too difficult for the mainstream audience.
Well, yeah, SC abandoned all of its features and the games got worse because of it. MGS3 did change the formula of the series, but I don't think it revamped the basics of the stealth genre when Splinter Cell was doing everything MGS3 was (in terms of stealth systems) but better.
I can see that. It's not for everyone and MGS does have it's own flavor. But in terms of gameplay systems, SC has MGS handily beat. At least until MGS4 and MGSV, but those games went into very different directions.
real_slime
Banned
Just remembered Volgin was the Man On Fire.
The thing about this game is all of it just falls flat, but there's so much of it you forget so many bits that didn't do anything, so you think there's nothing there, but there is, and then you remember, and you go 'oh.'.
The thing about this game is all of it just falls flat, but there's so much of it you forget so many bits that didn't do anything, so you think there's nothing there, but there is, and then you remember, and you go 'oh.'.
Yes, it's actually even more ballsy than the Raiden thing in a way, especially the other twist: irreversibly taking a major option away from the player.
I love codec and cutscenes, but they are not proper gameplay storytelling. The cassette tapes are a compromise for people who want to dig deeper. Not everyone wants that stuff shoveled down their throat, and when you introduce a lot of codec conversations, people skip them. This means they end up skipping important content which is buried beneath so much of the fluff content (which I love, but not everyone does).
MGSV is smart game design. They have many different levels of story, and for people who want to dig, they can. For people who want to just play, they can. Players have the freedom to engage in the story at their leisure without interrupting gameplay. Sometimes I want to listen to story. Sometimes I want to just play. I can also do both! It's a way better compromise than stopping gameplay and putting voice and text on screen for 2...3...10 minutes sometimes.
Just completed Mission 45...... damn Quiet...I had such an bond to her. I cried like an beeatch on her final cut scene. Now the helicopter rides feels so empty without her entertaining sluttiness. She was my idea of the perfect woman. I cried again, when I notice all her pictures were gone. :'(
She's an extremely pandering character, and actually I was kind of bothered by how much they milked that. But the fact that she's completely removed was pretty gutting. And I think that's part of the reason they made her that way. Make her memorable (for better or worse) and then she leaves.
You don't find games that take options away from players often...
You don't find games that take options away from players often...
real_slime
Banned
yeah i just kept that butterfly emblem on cos i couldn't be bothered with her leaving. she's the only buddy i use
'quiet go do this mission for me then i'll pick up the reward'
'bzzssst'
'quiet go do this mission for me then i'll pick up the reward'
'bzzssst'
Same with Fulton ddog and the wormhole.
On the outside of the supply fort- "ddog get em"
...
"Mission Complete"
I don't think it was pandering. I feel it was just an confident woman, who wasn't ashamed of her sexuality. In other words...the perfect woman....which makes her absence...I-I c-can't talk anymore about it. *sobs* :'(
Not really, I S ranked it in five minutes by dropping in and non-stop running out. It's only long if you wander
I don't get people either not getting or not appreciating that the fact we're playing VenomIS Naked Snake's moral event horizon.
We're playing a decent guy who had a life and had that stripped away from him without his consent, who is then made responsible for taking the fall for someone else.
Meanwhile, Big Boss has become exactly like the people he rebelled against, using his men like tools.
I personally think that this subtle fall was better than having Big Boss run around kicking puppies and murdering children to show just how DARK AND EVIL he's become.
Basically this and Huey being a complete shit I think, are really good, well told story elements in a game that was weak in that area otherwise.
The concepts in Quiet's story are also excellent, the execution not so much.
I just rewatched the nuclear disarmament scene. Some notes:
- A child soldier places the White Star of Bethlehem at the foot of the monument while Kaz is giving his speech. This makes this cutscene difficult to place. Is it before Eli escapes? I thought the child soldiers escaped with Eli? Or maybe this one did not? Or maybe some were fit to come back after the Kingdom of the Flies?
- It's neat seeing Ocelot head out to battle, sitting in the helicopter with the sniper rifle. Guess it was all hands on deck for disarming the nukes of the world.
- At the end, Venom is talking to The Boss. About driving out the demon, achieving true peace. So even though Venom isn't BB, it seems he idolizes The Boss all the same.
- It's neat seeing President Barack Obama quoted in an MGS game. That would've been amazing if he appeared as a character, lol.
- A child soldier places the White Star of Bethlehem at the foot of the monument while Kaz is giving his speech. This makes this cutscene difficult to place. Is it before Eli escapes? I thought the child soldiers escaped with Eli? Or maybe this one did not? Or maybe some were fit to come back after the Kingdom of the Flies?
- It's neat seeing Ocelot head out to battle, sitting in the helicopter with the sniper rifle. Guess it was all hands on deck for disarming the nukes of the world.
- At the end, Venom is talking to The Boss. About driving out the demon, achieving true peace. So even though Venom isn't BB, it seems he idolizes The Boss all the same.
- It's neat seeing President Barack Obama quoted in an MGS game. That would've been amazing if he appeared as a character, lol.
Backup your save. Play "A Quiet End" to get the full experience. Then replace your save with the original save so that you have Quiet back. That's what I did.
Storm Raider
Banned
Well that sounds like a spoiler.
I guess that's what I get for thinking I was spoiler free..
Obama was born on Cloud City, he is the illegitimate son of Lando Calrissian and has all of his powers
You're in the spoiler thread. And you'll thank me later!
UUUUhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Ha, don't worry, it's interesting how things play out. Just backup your save first!