-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
Of course not. It's a retcon. Which is fine. This happens every time with franchises spawning decades. Contrary to most people though, it think the retcon helps some things to make sense.
I'm spousing the idea of a conflict between Venom and Big Boss more and more. Yes, he initially smiles at the idea of being Big Boss, but later realises how he is being manipulated (hence the mirror punch scene) and eventually tries to become the one true Big Boss himself. Ocelot says there's room for only one Boss and Kaz says he will prepare Venom to kill the true BB. It was only a matter of time before one would try to take the other out of the picture. The final dialogue suggests a clear rupture between the two parties.
It helps to make sense of Gray Fox's capture. Why would he get captured in the first place if Venom was working with Big Boss all along? Frank Jaeger was BB's most trusted lieutenant. He was there to destroy Metal Gear (which was a threat to Big Boss) and kill Venom, but failed. Later, Solid Snake would succeed. If the idea was only to report false information, Gray Fox could easily have accomplished that with Venom's colaboration.
What I think it happens instead is that Venom was caught by surprise by Gray Fox's invasion, but ended up capturing him. Knowing BB's intentions, Venom managed to get a hold of a Intrude N313 tape and created a plan: he would intercept Solid Snake codec calls (much like how Liquid did by impersonating Miller in MGS) and act like FOX HOUND commander in chief Big Boss, feeding Snake false tips so he wouldn't manage to destroy Metal Gear, but get away with false information to throw Big Boss off. He clearly underestimated Solid Snake, though.
It's just a theory, and the game leaves room for a number of interpretations, so maybe I'm way off and didn't think this through. For instance, this doesn't explain why Miller wouldn't tell anything to Solid Snake, but that is a problem no matter which interpretation you take. However, I don't think there's enough evidence to sustain that Venom worked with Big Boss until his death. It doesn't make sense and the final dialogue between Ocelot and Miller clearly show a confrontation was coming between the two bosses.
AgentOtaku
Member
STILLethal
Member
Solid Snake was GOAT then, I mean taking down the legendary soldiers Venom AND Big Boss? And then everything he did from MGS1, 2, and 4?
He's the real MVP
He's the real MVP
To be fair, while Solid Snake was a rookie back then, he was in his prime while the two bosses were in their 50's or even 60's in the case of Big Boss.
Snake did beat Gray Fox twice, though, which does makes him GOAT. After MGS4 he became a legend on par with Big Boss, if not bigger.
In terms of pure combat prowess Raiden probably takes the cake, but he cheats.
STILLethal
Member
You make a good point about them being old - if only they had nanomachines back then...or did parasite therapy or w/e its called.
But yeah he did beat Gray Fox twice, so he is indeed GOAT, we should called him Goat Boss?
Raiden is lightning....the rain transformed, plus he has an interchangeable body - combat and civilian bodies, not fair at all
You allow MGSV to be a part of your headcanon? lolol
I like this.
Something has been bugging me. While jeep ridin with Skully, why does the game let you play cassettes? You can't do anything else but look around and equip night vision goggles and the iDroid is intentionally locked out except for playing tapes. Why is that?
SJRB
Gold Member
So you have something to do during the awkward pauses. You know, instead of thinking "why isn't anyone talking? Is my game bugged? What is going on?"
bakerbakes
Member
Ahhhh I finished chapter one and said fuck it and popped in this thread. Maybe a mistake, maybe not, too late now. I'm kinda excite to see how this all plays out in game anyways.
Out of nowhere
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Don't forget: Solid Snake was helped out by Liquid Snake and Liquid Ocelot.
How is canon relevant when comparing skills in battle? :/
GreyOcelot
Member
yeah, wasn't the entire mission on shadow moses an elaborate ruse to get solid snake to activate Rex?
Not really, Ocelot "fucked up" killing Sigint and they couldn't find the card from Baker, that's when they decided to fiddle Snake.
IP why are you still here?
GreyOcelot
Member
right, this happened before snake arrived. they even sent in a fake sigint to see if snake knew how to activate rex. hence, they lobbed snake a soft ball on purpose
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Just to suffer?
I believe so. Then you had Liquid Ocelot who was secretly helping him take down The Patriots in 4. The only game he arguably didn't get any help in was the MGS2 Plant Chapter.
No, he had assistance from The Sons of Big Boss. They let him get as far as they needed him to get. Fortunately, he had the gumption and guts to pull through. Solid Snake is manipulated/assisted in all but one game, as far as I can tell.
From the community thread.
apparently there are 65 mission according to a book that famitsu just pulled out on a mgsv stream. They also stated that there's a code in the game, and a cipher in the novelization.
source: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeverBeGameOver/comments/3qu90x/supposedly_stream_from_konami_and_kojipro/
I don't want to believe anymore.
Its stated tho.. by them officially in a stream.. even if you don't want to believe.
what is happening!??
This tied to the P.T theory... its all crazy now!!!
Screen fo the guide.
From the translated Amazon page for the complete guide:
"Key to get to the "Metal Gear" series maximum of mystery is here."
"And once published a hidden element studded in this work! "
Could be google translate being interesting, or is it saying that this holds the key to unlocking the "hidden element" in the game?
"Key to get to the "Metal Gear" series maximum of mystery is here."
"And once published a hidden element studded in this work! "
Could be google translate being interesting, or is it saying that this holds the key to unlocking the "hidden element" in the game?
I still can't get over how badly Kojima fucked up Big Boss' heel turn.
The coma was established, the memory loss wasn't but it didn't seem like a dramatic retcon. The idea of a dude losing his entire past and being thrust immediately into war is justification enough for the evil shit he does in MG2; he isn't really a person at that point, he's just a tool for war, his only 'memories' are those told to him by his comrades on the battlefield, the only home he would have ever known would be in warfare. That dude, Big Boss stripped of the elements that make him human, ought to be a villain.
But nope, Venom Snake takes it all in his stride. "Oh, so did I have any family? Girlfriends? A hometown?", "Uh, Snake, we don't know about any of that, just that you're a really good soldier", "Oh, ok, that's fun". No. That should be enough to drive a man insane. All you are is a soldier. That's the only history you've ever known. Be mad.
The coma was established, the memory loss wasn't but it didn't seem like a dramatic retcon. The idea of a dude losing his entire past and being thrust immediately into war is justification enough for the evil shit he does in MG2; he isn't really a person at that point, he's just a tool for war, his only 'memories' are those told to him by his comrades on the battlefield, the only home he would have ever known would be in warfare. That dude, Big Boss stripped of the elements that make him human, ought to be a villain.
But nope, Venom Snake takes it all in his stride. "Oh, so did I have any family? Girlfriends? A hometown?", "Uh, Snake, we don't know about any of that, just that you're a really good soldier", "Oh, ok, that's fun". No. That should be enough to drive a man insane. All you are is a soldier. That's the only history you've ever known. Be mad.
I hear ya. Its surprising how much defense the game gets tho. Saying the story is air tight, and its a great piece of narrative. I don't get it.
But hey. maybe there is more to the game than meets the eye. Since everything happens outside of the game, i am sure we can make things up and it will be canon. Afterall, Kojima wanted us to make our own story. Right?
The Omega Man
Member
Wasn't a youtube video with a guy whose game glitched out and unlocked all missions? They were like extra 10 ones with just 0s as names, like placeholders for when the content deploys.
OTP confirmed, pls body hold on.More Hints
Yea. I believe this happened already. Also it unlocked names of items that just didn't appear.
More Hints
It's going to fucking happen, and it's gonna be glorious!
Its stated tho.. by them officially in a stream.. even if you don't want to believe.
what is happening!??
This tied to the P.T theory... its all crazy now!!!
Screen fo the guide.
The Omega Man
Member
Its stated tho.. by them officially in a stream.. even if you don't want to believe.
what is happening!??
This tied to the P.T theory... its all crazy now!!!
Screen fo the guide.
Look a the name, that's a different game. XD
BTW what's the P.T theory?
hahaha.. i did use google translate.
Just to suffer
Was talking to a friend about the game and she was basically okay with the entire thing because in her mind the big twist is that the game is a spin-off. I figure this is a joke lots of people must have made by now, but I was laughing so hard after talking to her about it.
"Game is a spin-off. Metal Gear Solid V. As in, Venom. Not Metal Gear Solid 5. We never had a Metal Gear Solid 5. There's only the phantom pain that comes after thinking we were getting a true sequel when in fact we were only getting a spin-off. It's all part of Kojima's plan."
That's my personal canon from now on because the idea that the game is actually a spin-off is hilarious to me. (I loved the game regardless)
"Game is a spin-off. Metal Gear Solid V. As in, Venom. Not Metal Gear Solid 5. We never had a Metal Gear Solid 5. There's only the phantom pain that comes after thinking we were getting a true sequel when in fact we were only getting a spin-off. It's all part of Kojima's plan."
That's my personal canon from now on because the idea that the game is actually a spin-off is hilarious to me. (I loved the game regardless)
I like the twist ending in concept even if it's not handled as well as it could have been. It has the appropriate level of audacity for a Metal Gear game.
I felt a lot of unexpected Metal Gear Solid 2 parallels as I closed in on MGSV's conclusion. The whole wrap-up feels similarly hacked, rushed, and extremely expository but somehow I find that sort of flaw charming when it applies to Metal Gear.
I felt a lot of unexpected Metal Gear Solid 2 parallels as I closed in on MGSV's conclusion. The whole wrap-up feels similarly hacked, rushed, and extremely expository but somehow I find that sort of flaw charming when it applies to Metal Gear.
I still think its' weird that people paint big boss in MG2 as "evil". He was gray. Everything he did in that game was to combat Cipher. It was all to make the world whole in the end, to realize The Boss's dream.
He saw taking children from war torn areas and raising them to be soldiers in outer heaven as giving them a better life than they'd have where they came from (And if you think about Raiden's backstory, you can see it)
The idea that Big Boss went from evil to good (at the end of MGS4) is ludicrous. He was trying to free the world from Cipher's control, like ocelot. Solid Snake was just working or the ultimate evil the whole time without realizing it, the united states government...I mean The Pentagon...I mean the Patriots...I mean Cipher.
The worst is I hear people complain that we didn't have a choice to shoot the kids in the mission where Snake busts them out...that's so ludicrous. Drives me up the wall it does. The whole thing is just a self-serving complaint that doesn't really take the story of the series into account.
Can't wait for that chapter 3 though. Finally we'll have the real i don't know anymore it's been too much to deal with.
He saw taking children from war torn areas and raising them to be soldiers in outer heaven as giving them a better life than they'd have where they came from (And if you think about Raiden's backstory, you can see it)
The idea that Big Boss went from evil to good (at the end of MGS4) is ludicrous. He was trying to free the world from Cipher's control, like ocelot. Solid Snake was just working or the ultimate evil the whole time without realizing it, the united states government...I mean The Pentagon...I mean the Patriots...I mean Cipher.
The worst is I hear people complain that we didn't have a choice to shoot the kids in the mission where Snake busts them out...that's so ludicrous. Drives me up the wall it does. The whole thing is just a self-serving complaint that doesn't really take the story of the series into account.
Can't wait for that chapter 3 though. Finally we'll have the real i don't know anymore it's been too much to deal with.
O/So end of October...
While I agree Big Boss was more like a gray villain, the bolded part is not entirely correct.
Big Boss left The Boss ideals back in Peace Walker (he says as much in the ending). His ideal is to fuel war in an endless cycle so he and his soldiers can have a place in the world and don't become relics of the past. He sees a world walking towards peace and he doesn't want that. He doesn't take children so they can have a better future (that's Venom, and it's one of the many contrasts shown between him and his "demon", aka Big Boss), he takes children to more effectively perpetuate the cycle of war.
Here's part of his speech in MG2:
"You saw those children, didn't you? Every one is a victim of a war somewhere in the world. And they will make fine soldiers in the next. Start a war, fan it's flames, create victims... Then save them, train them... And feed them back onto the battlefield. It's a perfectly logical system."
That being said, people expected Big Boss to turn evil because of terrible marketing that made everybody forget past games. He basically turns into MG2 Big Boss in the end of Peace Walker, which is precisely when he tells Kaz "you can call me Big Boss now".
golduck342
Member
Another brain dump to add to the rectonnage.
So Venom (mg1 big boss), dies by the hand of Solid Snake by being burned alive with a lighter and aerosol can. Essentially the exact way Ishmael attempts to kill Quiet at the hospital. So it's possible that they didn't even even have to use the notion of two different Big Bosses and could have gone with some parasite healing excuse that could've prevented him from dying. But, isn't it funny how Venom was likely injected with the mutated Wolbachia (the one that prevents copulation), taking parasite therapy out of the question, while at the same time Huey's exile means that the radiation that undoes the mutation was just lost to history.
It's a stretch, but it's funny to say that Big Boss knew this all along and somehow set that up as the perfect way for him to die, a brutal reminder to how Quiet became her namesake, and a reminder of when they fought bide by side as Ahab/Ishmael back in the hospital. It's also funny that Miller intended to support Venom, but his need to find a scapegoat back on mother base in Huey ended up being something that could've prevented Venom's demise. As far as I know, Venom was never infected with the English strain, so Huey's radiation would have worked fine on him.
So Venom (mg1 big boss), dies by the hand of Solid Snake by being burned alive with a lighter and aerosol can. Essentially the exact way Ishmael attempts to kill Quiet at the hospital. So it's possible that they didn't even even have to use the notion of two different Big Bosses and could have gone with some parasite healing excuse that could've prevented him from dying. But, isn't it funny how Venom was likely injected with the mutated Wolbachia (the one that prevents copulation), taking parasite therapy out of the question, while at the same time Huey's exile means that the radiation that undoes the mutation was just lost to history.
It's a stretch, but it's funny to say that Big Boss knew this all along and somehow set that up as the perfect way for him to die, a brutal reminder to how Quiet became her namesake, and a reminder of when they fought bide by side as Ahab/Ishmael back in the hospital. It's also funny that Miller intended to support Venom, but his need to find a scapegoat back on mother base in Huey ended up being something that could've prevented Venom's demise. As far as I know, Venom was never infected with the English strain, so Huey's radiation would have worked fine on him.
Mat-triX
Member
That was the end of MG2 (the REAL Big Boss). It would have been better if it was done that way, but yaaaa....sorry
SJRB
Gold Member
So end of October...
The anger that fuels my hate burns indefinitely.
I've been thinking about this post, and something else has occurred to me.
Skullface isn't engaging as an antagonist as there's no motivation for the player to seek him. It's strange that the entire game is about revenge, but at no point does it say "he has done this to you, you have suffered, now go get him". There are characters as Kaz and Ocelot who drone on to you that he's the bad guy, but without a key story point demonstration there's no real reason to take him seriously. The player actually benefits because of Skullface, because the get a robot arm that does all sorts of things.
Moving mission 43 as a mid point climax would rectify this; you spend the majority of the game recruiting soldiers, and then you're forced to kill them because of Skullface. It would be the perfect goal post for the players/ It would give the player a lust for revenge.
It would also validate the Medic Snake plot twist as well. Your journey would actually be valuable as you were out for revenge, and your personal experience would be relevant.
Finally finished the game. Welp. I was fine with everything until the body double twist.
I did the "Quiet leaves" mission before the final hospital one, and Pequod was yelling about "Ahab" during the ending. I thought that was some kind of additional code name for Big Boss that I missed, so I didn't think much of it.
Real disappointing how it turned out, especially thinking back to how powerful the mission where you have to kill Mother Base members due to the mutated parasite was. Interesting how they made Huey into a villain.
Just seems like there were a bunch of missed opportunities and missteps.
I only discovered that Paz was a thing (or not, based on what I read the final scene with her is like) after I finished the game, so now I guess I'll do that to wrap things up.
I did the "Quiet leaves" mission before the final hospital one, and Pequod was yelling about "Ahab" during the ending. I thought that was some kind of additional code name for Big Boss that I missed, so I didn't think much of it.
Real disappointing how it turned out, especially thinking back to how powerful the mission where you have to kill Mother Base members due to the mutated parasite was. Interesting how they made Huey into a villain.
Just seems like there were a bunch of missed opportunities and missteps.
I only discovered that Paz was a thing (or not, based on what I read the final scene with her is like) after I finished the game, so now I guess I'll do that to wrap things up.
