When 20-minute monologues are regularly included in cutscenes before and after boss battles, fitting in a few conversations during them doesn't require much more suspension of disbelief.
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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
When 20-minute monologues are regularly included in cutscenes before and after boss battles, fitting in a few conversations during them doesn't require much more suspension of disbelief.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
It's more or less the new "How does CODEC even work?" question.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Roni
Gold Member
They are never presented as in-universe devices. They are there, they give you insight. Just like countless other cutscenes.
Venom deliberately gets their hands on some of them, some he doesn't.
Questioning that internal logic leads to the questioning of all scenes shown to the player where Snake isn't present. In every other game.
Except they are, in the first cutscene, and in the truth ending.
Kaz, ocelot even say "listen to the tapes"
Edit: You can't have it both ways, either I'm big boss or I'm a guy watching big medic's universe unfold sitting on my mom's basement.
Roni
Gold Member
Like I said, Venom deliberately gets his hands on some, some he doesn't.
And it had to be both ways, I reckon. The alternative was keeping consistency but leaving even more OUT of the final game. And that's the bottomline: given the shitty situation Kojima Productions was in, I think Kojima did a great job of wrapping things up as he could.
He planned a much longer game and had to wrap it at 30% completion. How would you have done it?
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
Better late than never. Just finished the game! I wore a thick skin after all the strong opinions I ran into. Overall, I like it. Wasn't what I wanted or expected, but it was cool. Especially after the Truth Revealed tapes. Execution was left wanting and it really lends itself better to a Wikipedia page, but I really did like it.
The Legend is bigger than the man.
The Legend is bigger than the man.
Nah. Cameras follow a certain criteria. Some directors like it to be omniscient, some to capture the point of view of someone or something, things like that. Camera work tells us the story without getting in the way. The camera work is not the issue here.
This tapes are given to VS. They are also commented on by the cast, that they have tapes for him to listen to. Some they point out, others are just unlocked. The most secret are not linked to anything else. Its hard to follow, thats all. There should be a same criteria.
I think they mean that peace, as in everyone should disarm their nukes, and bring peace.
I know your pain, and your suffering. I don't think there is a Chapter 3. Sorry.
Solid Snake killing himself in the Middle East is the big one I think. There was some stuff mixed arround too. It wasn't a TRICK or anything, but the snake suicide fakeout is a big example of "Don't come to a story looking for a specific thing, just let it happen". The suicide shot was in the first trailer and one of the themes through most of the game, but then that turned out differently in the end. (kind of a minor point. The main thing I'm getting at is that expectations aren't important)
There was never a Chapter 3 to begin with.
Ehhhh MGS 1 - GZ are pretty consistent, even if you include the non-Kojima games, walking into a MGS game with no expectation is difficult at best after, being a fan for so long.
Something I'm still unsure about after finishing all the tapes and skimming a few wikis:
Who was truly responsible for the inception of the "Venom Snake" diversion? I know it's credited to Zero in a few of the tapes (as an effort to protect Big Boss) but there's also implication that Big Boss played a crucial part in enacting the operation. Was he clued into the plan by Zero shortly after waking from his coma or did the two create the plan together?
I'm just trying to figure out just how much of a massive dick Big Boss turned out to be. To take your best man, ruin his life, and eventually have him killed... that's cold, Jack.
I'm just trying to figure out just how much of a massive dick Big Boss turned out to be. To take your best man, ruin his life, and eventually have him killed... that's cold, Jack.
Zero came up with it, and Big Boss was cool with it for some reason after he found out, so he went along with the plan to further his own goals.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but it would have been really cool if BB heard the plan, rejected it, and then the game ended with the real BB finding you (Venom) to "save" you by putting you out of your misery.
Ha, sorry, so used to the Undertale thread that I'm still spoiler-tagging everything.
Okay, so basically the idea is that Big Boss is so dedicated to carrying out The Boss's legacy (which honestly I've never been clear on) that, in light of Skull Face's threat, he is willing to use his own soldier just as the United States had used his mentor.
Doesn't make him not a nightmare person but I can conceive of that as a narrative.
Steiner_Zi
Member
So I'm confused, who were those soldiers that attacked the hospital at the beginning? If it were Skullface's then they wouldn't fight with Volgin and Psycho Mantis. If they were sent from Cipher, it doesn't make sense because Zero was the one who hid Snake in Cyprus anyway...
GreyOcelot
Member
no. big boss is actually vehemently opposed to the boss's will, as evidenced by the end of peace walker. he believes that the boss gave up in rejecting war and wanting peace.
Mantis on fire meets with Skullwhoo after Cyprus.
The thing that makes little sense is sending the assasin, lose track of her position and send the squad in anyway to kill everyone except the target. Considering is the same people that pulled the job on MSF, then again they failed to till BB both times...
MGS2 and 4 had so much negativity towards them in their day, and it took a while for people to come around on "MGS1 is actually better overall than Twin Snakes". It's hard to really explain unless you were around at the time, but MGS3 WAS the series as far as alot of people were concerned. I like how chip cheezum's lp of mgs2 is sort of a time capsule into a state of the fandom not so long ago, yet still so alien to how people talk about "the series" now that mgsv has come and gone. V still has problems, and I would have preferred restructuring the game to give us "Main Missions" with mother base cutscenes tied to THOSE, and side missions to play for funsies like in GZ (ex: the 3 missions between save kaz and find the honey bee are filler, then the 4 missions between honey bee and quiet/huey are filler) I kind of wonder how possible it is to use a memory editor to force missions active and get a more "streamlined playthrough" of the game, instead of forcing us to do fillery stuff all the time...
Every mgs game except 3 got shit on in its time, and yet people look back fondly on "the entire series" today...not that V doesn't have problems, but I wouldn't knock a game for it's story, story to me is a bonus to a game, and i see it as something that adds to the experience. If a story is lacking but the gameplay stands on its own, then I consider that game great. I forget who said it, but I heard a little while ago that MGSV is a 10 out of 11 game. It succeeds at making an amazing gameplay experience, but a more complete story could have elevated it beyond that. Good games don't need good stories, it's a bonus. (It's why I don't really care about telltale games or walking simulators or until dawn. they're all stories, but stories aren't the meat and potatoes of a meal. You need a hearty dinner, story's more like a desert. The metaphor works if you ignore that people usually eat deserts last)
Man, smoking DD, I laughed so hard my wife thought I wasn't feeling well.
KOMANI
KOMANI
I wasn't directly answering you. I was going on something you said, if that makes sense.
Serpens007
Member
You will be able to explain who recorded the tapes if you can also explain why would Snake and Raiden sit to talk in the radio in front of an enemy, a tank, or a Boss, while they're shooting at him.
Or, for that matter, every stupid thing in the whole series. It's like the chapter 3 of reasons behind MGS lore.
About that tweet, funny how they erased the mention of Kojima.
Or, for that matter, every stupid thing in the whole series. It's like the chapter 3 of reasons behind MGS lore.
About that tweet, funny how they erased the mention of Kojima.
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
I lost a lot of espionage points again, and some PF points where I would have been in the negative before getting the allowance today. I thought espionage point penalty may have had to do with disposing of nukes, but now it seems like some kind of server sync issue.
Talking about narrative focused games for a bit, I don't understand why someone would spend 60 dollars on an interactive cgi movie (Until Dawn)...Not even a full season of game of thrones when it's new costs that much. Story's not important to me, gameplay is king. You can play a good game multiple times and improve your skill at the game (and transfer those skills into other games).
I'd probably pay as much as 80 dollars for a game that's fun for a hundred hours, but a story game...I never get those at full price, and if the gameplay isn't good, I just watch the cutscenes on some letsplay. If I don't need to play it to enjoy it, I might as well put it on on my second monitor and then get some work done while I see the "game". (That said, I think MGS games always had enough creativity and changed enough on higher difficulties to be worth playing multiple times, and they still end up fun even if you skip cutscenes.)
Basically, if a game is fun even if you skip all the cutscenes on a second playthrough, then it's worth buying at full price. I'm kind of bummed at most modern western game designs. Some generic, repeatable formula to string cutscenes together at a focus-tested pace? yawnzville. I don't play videogames to watch a movie. A cutscene is a bonus for playing a videogame well, not the objective. Since when is the point of a videogame to see voice acting and 3D animation? People used to COMPLAIN about those things back on the PS2.
I'm ok with that. I dont have the time or money to invest in multiple games so I have to shoot for the true and tried, or the more "creative" ideas (No man's Sky).
MGS was great fun, just not what I was "sold" (shame on me for being fooled twice by kojima)
MGO is turning out fun enough to milk out a few more hours of the fox engine.
MGS was great fun, just not what I was "sold" (shame on me for being fooled twice by kojima)
MGO is turning out fun enough to milk out a few more hours of the fox engine.
Oh, I forgot about that. That struck me as an abrupt and unwarranted character turn in the first place.
Honestly, I've been unclear on the characterization and motives of certain characters since MGS3. I don't think any of the characters in the franchise are particularly well defined.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
GreyOcelot
Member
well, most mgs characters are essentially different characters in each game. kojima shoehorns his ideas within the confines of the mgs universe. for ex. Big boss being like che gueverra in peace walker. zero is a stoic bond-loving unassuming mission commander in mgs3. huey goes from otacon analog in PW to the sleezy weasel he is in MGSV. raiden in mgs2 vs. mgs4. eva in mgs3 vs. mgs4. most of these character arcs work better within the individual games vs. a constant and consistent character arc.
Graphics Horse
Member
Yes mine resets to zero most of the times I log in
It was. The implication with MGS3's ending was that BB began his downward spiral because of The Boss and her sacrifice. From PW onward though, he rejects her outright and becomes evil because I guess he's just a dick?
Like GreyOcelot said though, Kojima straight up doesn't care about the MGS story or its consistency. The characters are different people in each game which makes it easy to just ignore things as part of the canon, since why should I give a damn if the creator clearly doesn't?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Hardly abrupt. He starts doubting her Will when he meets the Boss AI for the first time.
Well, I meant the PW story as a whole. It was kind of an abrupt change from the Big Boss that was established in MGS3.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
How so?
Roni
Gold Member
Having Big Boss' memories and experience.
There's a full ten years between the two games though. I wouldn't call it an abrupt change so much as "We haven't sreen him in a while and he's going through some things".
I was born in a small village. I was still a child when we were raided by soldiers. Foreign soldiers. Torn from my elders, I was made to speak their language. With each new post, my masters changed along with the words they made me speak. With each change, I changed, too. My thoughts, personality, how I saw right and wrong. Words can kill.
