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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
as i said, there was nothing demonstrated in tpp to give players any type of motivation. you as a player do not lose out on anything really valuable (sorry chico), and in some instances you benefit with your robot arm. the loss of mother base in GZ is pretty much nullified as you instantly get a base in TPP once youve rescued miller. the story never stops to actually process any key moments and see its consequences. nobody gives a shit apart from miller really.
it doesn't help that the majority of players will have not played peace walker or GZ.
golduck342
Member
DAMN! Hahaha oh well... I knew it was a stretch anyway. So I guess the only connection is BB and Quiet being burned in similar ways, but recovering in completely different ways. Quiet for the cooler side of that, save for being also given the English strain.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Narratively though, everything you worked for in PW is gone. The base you start again with is barebones in comparison. All that hard work is destroyed. Most of your colleagues are dead or driven mad. Paz is dead. You lose 9 years of your life. Skullface attempts to murder you in the hospital.
I'm sorry, but there is plenty of motivation for revenge. You're looking for issues above and beyond those already there. Such a lust for disappointment!
Some have noticed how the game never uses the name "MSF" and merely talks about "the old Mother Base" or whatever instead (I imagine that has something to do with Médecins Sans Frontières), but I've never seen this little bit mentioned: the name has actually been retconned to "Out Of Order". As far as I know, it's only mentioned once in the game (in the Japanese version, and even then, it's not actually pronounced, just written in furigana). It also appears in the novelization.
Narratively though, everything you worked for in PW is gone. The base you start again with is barebones in comparison. All that hard work is destroyed. Most of your colleagues are dead or driven mad. Paz is dead. You lose 9 years of your life. Skullface attempts to murder you in the hospital.
I'm sorry, but there is plenty of motivation for revenge. You're looking for issues above and beyond those already there. Such a lust for disappointment!
As I said, there is no demonstration in TPP as to why the player should want to seek revenge. The points that you make are over-exaggerated, and the consequences of your loss is hardly explored in the game. It is only Paz and Miller which skims across the idea. Otherwise, everything else is shrugged aside. In terms of gameplay, the player benefits from losing Mother Base and their arm. The player is not given any motivation, Venom Snake doesn't discuss or react to what has happened, apart from agreeing with Miller.
The execution is a little poor.
Thats the understatement of the year.
I obviously play up my disappointment of MGSV to hyperbolic levels. I'm aware of this, so I'm trying to be a little bit more reasonable as Screaming Meat is cruelly dismissing me
KOMANI
KOMANI
They had the tools to demonstrate this (Cecil, Amanda, etc) but they brought in a bunch of faceless characters. I was emotional for the message phantom Paz leaves Phantom Snake. That's it. 43 was almost emotional, and only almost because it was the only time the game reminded you of Peacewalker, with its music. The Strangelove tape was absurd, way too long, and I didn't care much for the acting.
Do they even mention the death of Chico? Can't remember, it might have been relegated to a passing mention in one audio tape or something.
i have some questions.
Whoooooooo is recording all these tapes? even the zero ones?
Whatever happens to Diamond Dogs after? No real speculation nor followup.
Did the game ever try to wrap up the Eli story? apart from the missing chapter video?
they do. its in a tape. Kaz tells you about it. I want to say i felt sad, but i kinda chuckled at that. lol
Can you imagine if the double was Chico instead of the medic? Man.. that would've sent me for a spin. Chico was underused. Poor chico. lol
Whoooooooo is recording all these tapes? even the zero ones?
Whatever happens to Diamond Dogs after? No real speculation nor followup.
Did the game ever try to wrap up the Eli story? apart from the missing chapter video?
they do. its in a tape. Kaz tells you about it. I want to say i felt sad, but i kinda chuckled at that. lol
Can you imagine if the double was Chico instead of the medic? Man.. that would've sent me for a spin. Chico was underused. Poor chico. lol
KOMANI
KOMANI
Bingo. One small mention is passing on a tape. Chico could have been the poster boy of the negative effects on children soldiers. A lot of potential carried over from Ground Zeroes and... Nothing.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
But it's there. MGSV is GZ & TPP.
Same person who recorded all the secret phone calls at the end of every game... and the PW Tapes.
KOMANI
KOMANI
I'm sitting here, just realized every important climax is gone. Chico alive... Then Dead. Skullface carpools with you... Then Dead. Snake has an ashy facial... Then not Snake. Quiet is here...then she's there. Dead. Sahelanthropus flies away. Cut. Eyes of Kaz? Who cares.
Whooooooo cares indeed.
Whooooooo cares indeed.
Kojima?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Natch. S Grade Intel for a reason, yo.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Diamond Dogs is outerheaven. Like MSF is Outerheaven...like Zanzibarland. Outerheaven is now synonymous with a nation of soldiers. Just like
we're all Big Boss..
KOMANI
KOMANI
So stupid. You want to thank your fans? Deliver an equally great story along with gameplay before your third deadline.
i always thought the calls where just for exposition. not a recording.
these on the other hand are tapes. handed to VS.
i don't get it.
Kojima doesnt get it either
I listened to the final tapes, but I'm not too clear on this: when did the real Big Boss wake up from his coma? I'm pretty sure it was before Venom woke up, from the dialog in the tapes. But then why is BB still in the hospital? Just staying there so the duplicate scheme works out? And they made such a big deal of information immediately leaking out when Venom wakes up, I don't get why the same didn't happen when the real Big Boss woke up.
Excellent question.
SJRB
Gold Member
Look dude, it's best to stop asking questions because there are no answers. Sure, you can speculate or make up your own canon as to what happened with the hundreds of unresolved plot lines and narrative sequences that MGSV randomly throws into the overall lore and narrative, but it's impossible to make sense of any of it.
The game doesn't give a single fuck about any of that, so neither should you.
The sooner you accept this, the sooner you'll feel better.
Oh alright. So i should not ask questions?
give it up dude. apparently asking the right questions or any question will get you to be frowned upon. If we ask questions it means we don't enjoy or understand the medium/message/parasites.
I actually feel better now.
SJRB
Gold Member
I literally said you can [of course] but there are no answers.
Definitely. I actually have a question jar, and whenever I get a question I write it down and put it in the jar. Hopefully one day the question fairly will appear and answer them.
Oh, by the way, I have a picture of the jar in question:
Hmm... i just don't get why people go to great lengths to defend the game. Sure its their opinion. But the reality of the story is laid out as you said. Kojima didn't care. Its sad. Still a great game, but such a shitty story.
That is all.
I still like to ask questions tho. I am just that kind of guy.
I want to know the same thing.
GreyOcelot
Member
it's one of the best games i've ever played. the story is uneven, but as a whole pretty good to me. some amazing moments, a lot of pacing issues, but it's way better than most video game stories in general. with so many people on gaf shitting all over the story, of course the people who enjoyed it are going to defend it. that makes perfect sense.
i just don't get why you seem to think it's an objective fact that the story is bad.
So the story is good now?
I love my MGS all crazy and nanoparasitic, but c'mon
GreyOcelot
Member
yeah, i think it's pretty good. lots of great moments, but it's very poorly paced and disjointed, but the highs are off the charts though. it's better than 90% of video game stories, which are generally completely forgettable and generic.
... That is so fucking stupid.
Yeah I kinda fumbled through that part, but you explained it pretty well. From Solid Snake's perspective, Big Boss's explanation feels like a horrible monster man, but in the games since, when we've seen the place child soldiers have in the patriots system (and even outside of it) What big boss is doing is still creating a better world for those soldiers, where they're not just thrown away and discarded by their own nations. (And he never puts a gun in a child's hand and tells them to shoot solid snake at least. He's just running weird moral-gray zone daycare.)
The marketing was kind of too much, looking back. Like the MGS4 launch trailer, it gave off too much of the major scenes before we even played the game. (There's theories about this and the Konami problems, but still...) I think it's weird that people would trust kojima's trailers after what happened with 2 and 4. His tricks are part of what he does. He's still selling us a Hideo Kojima game. Making demands about how plot points should resolve based on trailers seems like the most bizarre complaint. The point of experiencing a story is to see where it goes. If you already know what happens and you just want zingers and stingers...that just seems like a shallow experience to me. It's part of why I'm never really into Genre-Trope films like campy horror where you "know the whole movie and that's the fun part". I just want to figure out a story as I go through it. You should judge something based on what it does, not purely against predisposed expectations...
He's a very important VIP. The most important person, in a sense.
The misdirection in 2 is well done, I dont remember 4 having any kind of marketing bullshit.
Serpens007
Member
I think that ultimately the "We're both Big Boss" thing isn't a love letter to the player, but is just Big Boss beign that charismatic asshole guy that will tell you anything to make you feel good.
"Hey, I took your life so you can be my body double while I make my dream come true. But don't be angry, you are as much Big Boss as I am, you're a legend dude!"
Men became a demon.
"Hey, I took your life so you can be my body double while I make my dream come true. But don't be angry, you are as much Big Boss as I am, you're a legend dude!"
Men became a demon.
That really doesn't seem to be the idea. Even the novelization points heavily at the "love letter" interpretation.
One last fiddle in the ruse tour. Venom Mute is for all intents and purposes "dead" anyway, just another phantom.
Grinchy
Banned
It cracks me up to ask that question, but then again, it's like asking how so many cameras are set up around the world to perfectly capture every scene from every movie.
Deliberately presenting them as in-universe devices opens the game up to criticism from that angle, which MGS1-3's codecs/radio didn't need due to positioning their equivalents as spontaneous conversations. It feels a little contrived to ascribe everything Venom couldn't logically have access to with hallucinations...
Grinchy
Banned
If they called them all "Phantom Tapes" would you be satisfied?
Spontaneous conversations that could happen right during boss fights, chase sequences, etc.
If you could accept that...