rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
On 2D metroids I remember only in Dread that you need to be stationary to kill the "E.M.M.I.s". Prime games I can't remember any moment you can't move.
Metroid Prime 4 off screen GC footage
- Thread starter Stafford
- Start date
In MEtroid Prime you had to be stationary to aim because they didn't use the right stick(yellow nub) for aiming. That's what I was referring too.
And in the 2d Metroids there is a similar feeling of not being able to run around aiming wherever.
cireza
Member
I don't like every 90+ metacritic game. But if I enter a thread of a game or series that is 90+ metacritic, with a lot of fans that like these games, and state that these games or part of them suck, I know that I will face a strong opposition. Which is exactly what happened to you here. So I don't go in these threads most of the time, it's pointless.
You can't complain about these games, and then complain that people are arguing against you.
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People cried about the gunplay in MP not being like Halo back in the day too.
AT the end of the day, MP wasn't trying to be Halo. It was trying to be 3d Metroid.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
Then it should be on par with Metroid Dread, no?
Don't know what that means. Need some translation and/or elaboration.
GymWolf
Member
A: like i said, this is not a reddit circljerk nor a walled garden, people are gonna say what they think when people post a trailer.
B:never said that you can't complain about my complaints
C: zelda and metroid are literally the only nintendo brands i still give a fuck about, i'm gonna 100% buy a switch 2 with mp4 like i bought switch1 thinking that mp4 was a sw1 game, but i can still criticize one aspect of the game that look shitty to me, but i like metroid for other things aswell so i can kinda forget the bad combat, but lying and saying that combat look good to make fanboys happy? Forget it.
Horizon 2 was literally my most hyped game for ps5 and you can search my post where i said that human combat and melee still looked like shit before launch, said multiple times in multiple topics, exactly like i do with every game that i'm hyped for, i'm not a child so i can coldy analyze one aspect of a game that i don't like and still have fun with it.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
You can always strafe while using "lock-on" in Prime.
In 2d metroids you can always move, except on that parts in Dread.
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cireza
Member
When exactly did I suggest that you should do this ?
Complain, accept the counter-arguments, and move on with your life.
Ok well maybe you understood what I said. Maybe you don't. I can't tell.
GymWolf
Member
I don't want metroid to turn into halo, if i want to play halo, i buy halo.
Not sure how saying that gunplay look weak as fuck means that i want an halo game.
You know what? I never liked the hit reactions, dead animations or ragdoll of halo that much, although infinite was an improvement, so it would not even be my 10th choice on how to change metroid gunplay for the better.
Gunplay is such a braod term that means everything and nothing at the same time, you people don't understand what i'm talking about, i'm not talking about shooting mechanics, but the visual satisfaction of when a bullet touch an enemy, that is also gunplay and metroid look WEAK.
I saw turn based games with more punchy gunplay than mp4 ffs, shooting mechanics and satisfying shooting are not the same thing, many people hate the robocop game because you are slow and tanky but they have to admit then when you actually hit the enemies it is fucking glorious.
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GymWolf
Member
When you said that i can't come here in a topic full of fanboys and nochalantly talk shit about the gunplay because it's a beloved 90 metacritic brand?!
What is the alternative of me saying that? Lying and saying that the gunplay looks great, sorry, not gonna do that because some fans can get mad at me.
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DirtInUrEye
Member
Looks great, the graphics and art are really striking. Looking forward to emulating it in a few years and playing it in 5k 120fps.
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cireza
Member
I didn't say that. I said you would face an opposition id you did it.
This is the second time in a row you are saying I said things I didn't say. Don't resort to bad faith.
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GymWolf
Member
And i said to you that i give 2 fucks about that, i don't post in a forum to only get positive feedback, that would be boring.
So thank for being worried about me, but i'm a big boy, i can handle it.
IT's good to get more clarification on what you exactly mean by lacks satisfying gunplay but my counter is the same. IT's Metroid. Has Metroid ever focused on the visceral reaction of enemies being hit by 'bullets?'
IT's always been more like target shooting. A little more thinking man's feel to the shooting. Instead of going the titillation route.
And I don't see how adding visceral reactions to bullets melting in the flesh of the enemy is going to improve the game overall. And doubt Nintendo is one to go that direction either anytime soon.
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EruditeHobo
Member
I don't mind the visuals.
The actual gameplay leaves a lot to be desired, IMO. I never got into the Prime games at all, Metroid in 1st person just doesn't feel right to me. Gunplay is definitely not intense enough for that perspective.
The actual gameplay leaves a lot to be desired, IMO. I never got into the Prime games at all, Metroid in 1st person just doesn't feel right to me. Gunplay is definitely not intense enough for that perspective.
Yeah this is the problem for MP4 for me. Too much been there/done that looking.
It doesn't help that the series is pretty abstract to begin with.
Super Mario at least ...you went from the castle to the fluid cannon to the 3d sphere worlds to 2.5d to skyscrapers and dinosaurs and the hat that takes control. You could tell them apart at least.
Meanwhile Nintendo could be showing me MP4 footage taken from the past MP games and I wouldn't know.
And there is no cool new front and center gimmick that I have seen. Mouse aiming seems to be one possible gimmick. But seemingly shoe horned onto the 'lock-on' design ...it isn't too exciting.
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LordOcidax
Member
GymWolf
Member
There is no correlation between being metroid and not having satisfying gunplay at all, no matter if you shoot missiles, rays or bullets, it never mattered in any game where you kill stuff that had rays and missiles.
even zelda, a kiddie game with a kiddie art design added exagerated ragdoll to make combat more punchier and visually varied, and we can kinda agree that combat is less prominent in zelda than metroid, at best they have the same amount of combat and it's not 1 fight every hour, at worse you fight for a good 30-40% of the game while exploring and doing other shit, it's not a low percentage enough to not care about the shooting in your game, it's a big part of it and you have to make it good, nintendo doesn't get a free pass from me.
Just to bring horizon in the discussion once again, every dude who actually played the game know that it's mostly a shooter and melee is kinda of an afterthought, you shoot wayyyyyyyyyy more than you melee especially on hard difficulty or higher where enemies are lethal and the game only has a defensive roll, no parry or shield, it didn't stopped people from saying that melee was dogshit and you are never gonna see me defend the melee of that game, at best i said that it was viable against small-medium dinos if you were very skilled, and being viable deosn't mean being good.
But somehow, i can't criticize the shooting of metroid that is way more promiment than the melee in horizon? bullshit.
P.s. can you explain to me the negatives of having good gunplay in a metroid game? because it looks like asking for better gunplay could ruin other parts of the game and i want to know how since having good gunplay never ruined a single game in the history of videogames, but be my guest...
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yurinka
Member
I didn't know they started to work on a Metroid Prime 4 game for Game Cube. Looks really good to be a GC game
LordOcidax
Member
GymWolf
Member
You can't acknowledge "satisfying gunplay" are broad and vague buzzwords and then keep using them like they aren't.
What you call "satisfying gunplay" I call a nothing burger more or less.I don't see a correlation between MP being great and your version of "satisfying gunplay."
And you just got done saying you didn't like ragdoll in Halo. Are you now arguing ragdoll in Zelda should be in Metroid because that's a good ragdoll? Or it could be because Nintendo did it in Zelda?
I'm not arguing other games don't have the things YOU want in Metroid or that they can't be done. The question really is what does it add to Metroid? I don't see it adding anything.
I think what Metroid needs is a new move or two or new gadget or something. Like the Zelda games got new gadgets and Mario gets new moves/weapons/devices.
Maybe MP4 does and I haven't seen it or noticed it yet or they haven't shown it. But it needs something. The environment itself too needs some new look/design. I didn't see anything that struck me as new and cool there either. For all I know it's taken from the old games and the textures were enhanced.
Whether the enemies ragdoll or not...don't care. There wasn't a ton of humanoid enemies in past MP games from what I recall either.
The "satisfying gunplay" of Metroid was always about selecting the right weapon, recognizing the pattern of enemy movement and adapting to it and the timing of shooting and dodging (and jumping...)
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Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
It's an FPS like any other but without the auspices of modernity, mp4 is like mp1 remaster.
this game is more of the same, I would give it a low rating for that.
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part of the reason the combat in the trailer looks meh too (at least to me) is the Space Pirates are all fighting the AI soldiers and Samus is free to wander around and not take any bullets and easily dump a few shots into every pirate.
In the old games, 'Space Pirates' as I recall (and I think these are pirates) were pretty deadly and you had to up your game when they came on the scene.
GymWolf
Member
I know dude, i said that i like metroid for many reasons, i was just criticizing ONE aspect that i hope they are gonna improve.
Because believe it or not, no game in the history of videogames was ever ruined by having more punchy gunplay, not one.
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Physiognomonics
Member
Yep. I was also misled. Reporting.
Anyway, it look great. The artstyle is very good.
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cireza
Member
Finishers are distracting in Doom. They get old very quickly.
Well they aren't going to improve on anything that you saw. That is the game. I can all but guarantee that.
'More punchy' is more broad vague buzzwords.
Again trailer looked 'less punchy' (my definition of it) because the pirates were fighting the AI friendlies and ignoring Samus.
AS you know, and I will repeat myself again, but in past games, pirates showing up was an event. Music would come on. Their blasts would be deadly. You had to be ready to fight, cover, dodge, whatever. Maybe you had to run away iirc.
This looked dumb. And on the 2nd time I watched ...I was like oh that's at least part of the reason why it looked flat.
The other reason is that doing this sort of thing isn't their strength. They shouldn't be trying to do a big 'army' scene with their tech/skillz.
STick to the lone soldier in lonely space theme.
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GymWolf
Member
I hate doom finishers aswell and not what i consider "more punchy combat" at all, that is a gimmick that get old super fast, the opposite of visual veriety.
They are cute the first 5 times tho.
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GymWolf
Member
No it's not.
gunplay alone is vague, more punchy means:
more oomphs in weapon sound design and enemies actually reacting to being hit and not just by the strongest weapons, ideally they should have different reaction based on the strenght of the weapon but even a simple gun should do something
some faux-gore ala destiny (or many other games) that sell the damage you do to enemies and detaching armours and pieces from them gradually, destiny does it right, i don't need realistic gore in a metroid game, but give me something.
more realistic and weighty ragdoll to sell the enemy falling down realistically and avoid silly stuff that can kill immersion
more dynamic death animations based on the point you hit to have more visual variety before the ragdoll even kicks in
maybe some nice dynamic green blood splatter effect that sell the kill even more (also bullet marks)
even something stupid like good ragdoll has a huge weight, avowed convinced people that it has good and punchy combat just because of decent hit reactions and weighty, fun ragdoll when you bash the enemies, even if mechanically is simple as a whole shit
we are all experienced players, you understand what people means when a trailer comes out and people say "wow, that's a punchy gunplay", it can be one of the listed aspects or a combination of them, the more the better usually.
its' not related to aim or cover system, not related to weapon variety, not related to enemy ai, not related to lock on or lack of lock on, not even ralated on how fluid the controls are because you can't tell that from a trailer, it's purely the moment when bullets hit the enemy and everything that comes later to sell the kill, rdr2 has shit aim and cover system, kinda bad enemy ai and weapon variety etc. etc. etc. but the shooting enemies is super visually varied and satysfying in that game (if you like realistic stuff) because it has all the components that i listed (some better some worse), i don't think i need to show you one of the THOUSANDS of lengthy kill compilations for that game on yt to prove my point, ask yourself why that game even has so many kill compilations even if majority of gaf hate the gameplay of that game to bits...it's not hard to understand (and i'm not asking rdr2 euphoria engine prowess from mp4, let's be clear)
If you hear punchy gunplay and start thinking about lock on or reload animations or weapon variety or enemy ai, it's a you problem dude, i can assure you that majority of people know what punchy gunplay means and use the term appropriately.
You are NEVER gonna hear anyone talking about punchy gunplay in a trailer where they only show the aiming mechanics or the enemy ai or a list of weapons without any gameplay, NEVER.
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
This demo is only the first 5 minutes of the game which is just setting up the plot when you get warped to Planet via relic thing.
The shooting and aiming seems inferior to Metroid Prime 3.
MP3 was one of the few games where Motion controls were great and you have a great degree of control where you could fire your arm cannon at.
The Mouse controls here seem rather limiting.
The shooting and aiming seems inferior to Metroid Prime 3.
MP3 was one of the few games where Motion controls were great and you have a great degree of control where you could fire your arm cannon at.
The Mouse controls here seem rather limiting.
You just defined punchy as a bunch of different things.
And like I said earlier, you're the same type of player who complained MP wasn't Halo back in the day.
It's futile like it was back then.
IT's Metroid. IT's an adventure game. The combat in it is about the right weapon, adapting to the enemy pattern and timing.
That is where the combat enjoyment is derived from. IT's not derived from ooomph.
MP isn't a shooter. FPA not FPS.
GymWolf
Member
I literally made a post saying the opposite of that.
You are right, it's futile to continue to discuss when you can't even read my posts.
I NEVER bought halo for his punchy gameplay and sure as hell i don't want metroid prime turned into fucking halo.
Goodbye sir.
Ps. and don't even try to fake to not understand what punchy gunplay means, the last part of my post is explained as clear as humanly possible without chance of misunderstanding, just say that you don't give a fuck so we can close this futile discussion.
I'm gonna buy mp4 even if it remain like this, so N is gonna have my money, you can open the bottle of champagne now.
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Only punchy weapons in Metroid is Super Missiles and maybe the Phazon Machine Gun.
Not much else has the OOMPH people talk about.
Primarily because the weapons are lasers.
Not much else has the OOMPH people talk about.
Primarily because the weapons are lasers.
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Chuck Berry
Gold Member
I'm going to assume/hope/
that the quiet, alone, moody moments will be shown closer to release..
that the quiet, alone, moody moments will be shown closer to release..
electricmastro
Member
This is seeming a lot more animated than the previous games.
Hudo
Member
Well, I see the Metroid Prime games as 3D Metroidvanias with a first-person perspective. That's how the previous games always felt to me. Did the "gunplay" in MP1-3 feel as good as in Halo 1-3? Nope. But it never bothered me because the combat/encounters never required the gunplay to be like that. The combat usually required using systems of a Metroidvania, especially in boss fights. I don't expect it to play like Call of Duty or Battlefield (and I certainly hope it doesn't play like those). If I want to play a good FPS I play Quake, which I don't expect to be a good Metroidvania because that's not what Quake is about and the game is designed in a way where I never thought "man, this is a pretty shitty Metroidvania".
Yes I was going to mention that one could argue enemy reaction is the way it is is because it's a sci-fi world with lasers and energy armor and you don't feel anything getting shot until the last blow which is insta-death. But I didn't want to open up that wormhole.
GymWolf
Member
You don't wanna open that wormhole becaue many games have punchy lasers so it's not a good excuse.
Nobody gives a fuck about a laser being realistic if it means that enemies barely react to hit.
Even freaking starfield or fallout 4 that are mediocre ass shooters have some punchy lasers, freakin mass effect 2-3 has some punchy lasers, although i don't particularly like halo hit reactions outside of infinite, even the oldest halo has some somehow punchy lasers, my memoery is shit with names but i'm sure there are hundreds of games with punchy lasers, let's not even get in the rabbit hole of destiny and all the multitude of laser weapons in that game...
Laser is hot plasma or some shit, no reason why hitting someone with that should not cause a hit reaction.
Can we stop this whole discussion already? i don't have the strenght anymore and i'm sure people want to talk about other stuff aswell.
I'm gonna end in an unrelated note by saying that i vastly prefer the art design of the space pirates over the halo elites, since people was talking about this before.
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Most enemies only have a reaction to concussive weapons(Missiles and usually Super), Charged Shots(which maybe delays a attack by like 1-2 seconds), Phazon having a stunlock effect(debatable since most cases you use it on enemies that die quickly or it's a boss mechanic) and that's about it. I don't remember any kind of reaction other then maybe Ice and Dark Beam freezing enemies. Power Bombs just do lots of damage and rarely stagger.
So far with Beyond we have an upgrade that marks targets and has a projectile you guide through enemies. Which is like a Wave Beam with extra steps. Instead of just making beam weapons SMART and function like Seeker Missiles.
Edit: Although I think Metroid Prime Hunters had the most Punchy weapons in the series. Especially Trace's Sniper Weapon.
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lol. I read all your posts. You are that Halo player from back in the day. And I know you replied that you don't like this and that about Halo and denied you were and didn't want to see yourself as that. But you missed the point. The big picture. Because the example wasn't meant to be taken only 100% literally. It's a euphemism or metaphor.
And I might not buy MP4 because it seems like too much like a game I already played. I don't see the new twist that is supposed to get me in the door.
YOu explained what punchy means. But it was a bunch of different things. And I already acknowledged you wanted more visceral. But that doesn't change my argument. That still gets filed under "arguing that MP should be more like Halo back in the day" guy.
SAme concept. Should be more like these other shooters. Even though it's Metroid and not a shooter.
I didn't want to open it because it's besides the point of the game not being a shooter.
GymWolf
Member
Nah, you are hugely over-thinking my dude, i'm just a dude that put huge weight in visceral combat and visual variety for kills in any game where you have to kill stuff often enough, everyone of us have their quirks and priorities, it's really that simple.lol. I read all your posts. You are that Halo player from back in the day. And I know you replied that you don't like this and that about Halo and denied you were and didn't want to see yourself as that. But you missed the point. The big picture. Because the example wasn't meant to be taken only 100% literally. It's a euphemism or metaphor.
And I might not buy MP4 because it seems like too much like a game I already played. I don't see the new twist that is supposed to get me in the door.
YOu explained what punchy means. But it was a bunch of different things. And I already acknowledged you wanted more visceral. But that doesn't change my argument. That still gets filed under "arguing that MP should be more like Halo back in the day" guy.
SAme concept. Should be more like these other shooters. Even though it's Metroid and not a shooter.
You are always gonna find my post commenting on how punchy the gameplay is in any trailer posted here on gaf, i have no deep motivations.
GymWolf
Member
Your point would never resonate with me because if you ask me you don't need to be a pure shooter to have punchy gunplay, it's just another aspect of the gunplay that a dev should strive to improve like they improve the other aspects of the gunplay, IF they care, and there is no possible argument against it because like i said, more punchy gunplay never ruined any game, it's only an added bonus to an already good game.
peace and love man
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I'm not sure how immediately seeing you're the Halo guy from back in the day is over thinking it. Opposite.
You want MP to be like other shooters you play. Very straight forward.
GymWolf
Member
Nope, i want the same metroid prime of the gc with more punchy combat, i have no idea why you can't understand that having more punchy gameplay doens't mean changing anything else in the game, it's 100% a visual thing, not a gameplay thing.
I'm even fucking super ok with lock on and all the other quirks, nor i'm asking for more combat in the exploration\solving puzzle\combat ratio of the game and break the delicate balance, like i didn't asked for any of those things you are imagining in your mind.
I'm actually flabbergated that it's so difficult to understand, so yeah, you are definitely over-thinking.
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