Support NeoGAF

[Maridia]

Bosses have always been memorable, but I don't think there was ever a heavy focus on them until perhaps Fusion. And either way, combat encapsulates far more than just bosses, Mark talks about the moment to moment gameplay being particularly combat heavy, which is not Metroid-like at all and one of the things that concerned me as soon as I learned of the melee counter.

Have you ever played Super Metroid? Every boss battle in the game is a stone cold classic, and you won't find many write-ups or retrospectives on the game that fail to mention them at length.

And Metroid 2 literally has a counter of how many bosses remain in the corner of the screen at all times. I spent hours as a kid looking at the pages in the instruction book that had pictures of the various types of Metroid on them. (It was the nineties. It was boring sometimes.)

I don't dispute that the moment to moment combat between bosses in the 2D games has always been a fast-paced, almost incidental affair, but the series is not comparable to something as bloodless as Mirror's Edge, where combat was something to be avoided.

 

[Magicpaint]

Lol Super Metroid is definitely not 90/10. That's absurd. So much attention is given to encounters and beam upgrades. Even the Prime games are action packed. They just balance well and aren't actively working against exploration.

 

[Vampirolol]

Btw all the boss battles in this game are great, among the best I've seen in a Metroid. Some are maybe too challenging/long but checkpoints make up for it.
Regarding the adventure/exploration part this game is still a worthy Metroid: you search for powerups, you do backtracking (only inside each area, not between various areas), you encounter Metroids and some surprises that shake the game up. The rhytm is on par with Zero Mission to me, the level design makes you want to go on and on...

 

[Toxi]

Have you ever played Super Metroid? Every boss battle in the game is a stone cold classic,

Botwoon though.

 

[Ridley327]

I don't necessarily agree, I've always seen Metroid and particularly Super as 90% exploration and 10% action, but even if it were like that, this is still different. We're talking about a game where every enemy encounter is a small, combat focused event, not just bosses. Something like that fundamentally changes the entire formula.

Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you, but doesn't sound very appealing to me as it's not what I look for in 2D Metroid... I could be wrong and still enjoy it a lot, though.

If the balance is skewed more in favor of combat encounters, it's because Metroid 2 itself was a game that skewed in favor of combat encounters. It was, for all intents and purpose, a game structured around dozens of miniboss encounters, so a game that follows that kind of design doesn't strike me running counter to what the series is all about.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Metroid was an action based series that aimed to take the 2D arcade action games of the time and connect the levels. It was steeped in combat based games. The original Metroid 2 aimed to take that aspect a bit further than the first with the aggressive metroid encounters. Combat was always a key component of the series even if it was a bit simple and most enemies were nonaggressive (including AM2R) unlike Samus Returns.

That bolded part is what I'm talking about though. Regardless of intent, 2D Metroid combat has always been relatively simple which resulted in the games being more focused on traversal than combat.

Sure there were lots of bosses in Metroid II, but with SR we're talking about regular enemies probably taking more time to fight and stopping your progress regularly, which obviously changes the flow of the game significantly.

 

[kunonabi]

More action is great if true. Metroid II is a linear and rigid experience so moment to moment gameplay needs to be spruced up to make up for the lack of varied exploration that say Super or Prime had.

Besides Mark and Jeremy are the outliers and I only half agree with them most times.

The funny thing is the mainline series has always been trending towards a more linear experience since 2. Super Metroid is actually the outlier oddly enough. And in that vein building up the combat is necessary. Its one of the main reasons i think Other M works so much better than Fusion and Zero Mission did.

 

[Toxi]

The funny thing is the mainline series has always been trending towards a more linear experience since 2. Super Metroid is actually the outlier oddly enough. And in that vein building up the combat is necessary. Its one of the main reasons i think Other M works so much better than Fusion and Zero Mission did.

Zero Mission is super non-linear.

 

[Vital Tundra]

Lets. GOOOO!

 

[Maridia]

Botwoon though.

Maridia's perfect, and I won't hear a word against it.

 

[Neoleo2143]

That bolded part is what I'm talking about though. Regardless of intent, 2D Metroid combat has always been relatively simple which resulted in the games being more focused on traversal than combat.

Sure there were lots of bosses in Metroid II, but with SR we're talking about regular enemies probably taking more time to fight and stopping your progress regularly, which obviously changes the flow of the game significantly.

I mean, Metroid games have always pushed towards faster higher level play so putting aggressive enemies that challenge the aggressive and fast play and more complex management with Aeion Abilities sharing a pool of energy intertwining the OG missiles and more limited super missiles is an interesting idea if you ask me. And most reviewers regard the pacing very highly. I don't think it's a concern when it comes down in the end.

 

[Varjet]

Have you ever played Super Metroid? Every boss battle in the game is a stone cold classic

Except Spore Spawn. No one likes Spore Spawn.

 

[Opa-Pa]

I like Spore Spawn!

 

[Ridley327]

Botwoon though.

I like to think of Botwoon as a reward for sticking through the worst of Maridia prior to the Space Jump, be it all of the grappling hook puzzles or the hell you faced if even one pixel touched the sinking sands. Weird that they reused Spore Spawn's music for it, since it's not even remotely as dread-soaked a fight that was.

 

[Maridia]

Except Spore Spawn. No one likes Spore Spawn.

What?! It changes color!

 

[VDenter]

The funny thing is the mainline series has always been trending towards a more linear experience since 2. Super Metroid is actually the outlier oddly enough. And in that vein building up the combat is necessary. Its one of the main reasons i think Other M works so much better than Fusion and Zero Mission did.

Zero Mission was much less linear than Fusion. Also the combat in Other M despite looking flashy was worse than it was in the previous games.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Zero Mission was much less linear than Fusion. Also the combat in Other M despite looking flashy was worse than it was in the previous games.

Spamming left and the charge beam was so fun and engaging though.

 

[Magicpaint]

Fusion has much better bosses than Super.

 

[Astral Dog]

Have you ever played Super Metroid? Every boss battle in the game is a stone cold classic, and you won't find many write-ups or retrospectives on the game that fail to mention them at length.

And Metroid 2 literally has a counter of how many bosses remain in the corner of the screen at all times. I spent hours as a kid looking at the pages in the instruction book that had pictures of the various types of Metroid on them. (It was the nineties. It was boring sometimes.)

I don't dispute that the moment to moment combat between bosses in the 2D games has always been a fast-paced, almost incidental affair, but the series is not comparable to something as bloodless as Mirror's Edge, where combat was something to be avoided.

Yeah bosses are a big part of the Metroid series i don't understand were that complain comes from.

 

[Toxi]

Fusion has much better bosses than Super.

Fusion has a fucking awesome selection of bosses. Best in 2d Metroid IMO. Both BOX fights stand out for how they made use of the new hanging from bars mechanic to great effect.

But if we're talking Metroid in general, Prime 2 is the champ.

 

[Magicpaint]

Fusion has a fucking awesome selection of bosses. Best in 2d Metroid IMO.

Totally agree. Amazing stuff.

And I also agree about Prime 2 being the GOAT of all.

 

[Green Mamba]

I don't think Fusion's bosses ever hit the highest of Super's highs but combat is definitely the one aspect of Fusion that it excels at. While I generally didn't care for how boss heavy the game was the bosses of Zero Mission were pretty much all steps down. Fusion also probably has the most powerful feeling Charge Beam in the series, has a pretty satisfying oomph--Zero Mission's was probably one of (if not the) weakest feeling in the series. And Zero Mission's Ridley may be a good boss fight if you don't cheese it, but I'm not entirely sure there's a way to not cheese that fight.

Prime 2's bosses are overrated if you ask me, though. A lot of them are longer than they need to be, and I'll never not be disappointed with the battle against Quadraxis being 2/3's a fight against a floating head. And sticking all three of the Morph Ball only boss fights (Spider Guardian, Power Bomb Guardian, and Caretaker Drone) one right after another are indicative of my feelings on Prime 2's slog like pacing.

 

[MegalonJJ]

Where's the best place to order this online in the UK to get it possibly a day early?

 

[Toxi]

I don't think Fusion's bosses ever hit the highest of Super's highs but combat is definitely the one aspect of Fusion that it excels at. While I generally didn't care for how boss heavy the game was the bosses of Zero Mission were pretty much all steps down. Fusion also probably has the most powerful feeling Charge Beam in the series, has a pretty satisfying oomph--Zero Mission's was probably one of (if not the) weakest feeling in the series.

Zero Mission's boss roster feels kinda half-assed.

"Here's a giant worm! Here's another giant worm! Here's a giant bug! Here's a fucking painting."

 

[TheDinoman]

Have you ever played Super Metroid? Every boss battle in the game is a stone cold classic,

Spore Spawn though.

Such a boring boss, man. Thankfully there are ways to skip it and get all the Super Missiles without wasting time fighting it.

 

[kunonabi]

Spamming left and the charge beam was so fun and engaging though.

Except it wasnt just spamming left and charge beams. It was about using proper spacing the quick charge from aimed dodges to get instant jump smashes and instant finishers along with counters and switching to first person for missile attacks and dodging back out. The game is really heavy on spatial recognition and reflexes to end combat encounters quickly and stylishly. It's actually quite elegant once you get it.

 

[Green Mamba]

Zero Mission's boss roster feels kinda half-assed.

"Here's a giant worm! Here's another giant worm! Here's a giant bug! Here's a fucking painting."

Hey, don't forget the most memorable final boss in the series--a half finished robot that looks like Ridley that you sort of just stumble into.

 

[KingBroly]

Except it wasnt just spamming left and charge beams. It was about using proper spacing the quick charge from aimed dodges to get instant jump smashes and instant finishers along with counters and switching to first person for missile attacks and dodging back out. The game is really heavy on spatial recognition and reflexes to end combat encounters quickly and stylishly. It's actually quite elegant once you get it.

Too bad the leniency window was as big as an 18 wheeler, making the game extremely easy

 

[TheDinoman]

The problem with Ridley in ZM is that he just goes down so fast for some reason.

All it takes is like around 10 Super Missiles and he's dead. You might be saying that's just because I'm using Super Missiles, but I can fire like 30 of them at Ridley during the boss fight in Super Metroid and he'd still be alive.

 

[Wanderer5]

Zero Mission's boss roster feels kinda half assed.

"Here's a giant worm! Here's another giant worm! Here's a giant bug! Here's a fucking painting."

Heh, after going through Fusion recently, I looked back at Zero Mission in regards to bosses, and it is like, damn Zero Mission is kind of a letdown regarding this.XD I mean, I wasn't really too thrill with most of the bosses anyway, but Fusion made that more apparent.

Fusion really has a nice roster of bosses that can be quite challenging and fun.

 

[Sothpaw]

I don't know how highly it is regarded but Fusion's soundtrack is amazing. Does a great job of setting the serious/scary tone of the mission.

Hope SR does a good job with the music. The music of the Prime games is the weakest part of the trilogy to me.

 

[Ridley327]

I don't know how highly it is regarded but Fusion's soundtrack is amazing. Does a great job of setting the serious/scary tone of the mission.

Hope SR does a good job with the music. The music of the Prime games is the weakest part of the trilogy to me.

My head is melting like Nightmare's right now.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Except Spore Spawn. No one likes Spore Spawn.

Spore spawn has awesome music but yeah the boss fight is just a 30 second speedbump to any play through.

 

[Opa-Pa]

My head is melting like Nightmare's right now.

Same, haha. I mean Prime 1's soundtrack alone is second only to SM's, IMO.

 

[Sothpaw]

My head is melting like Nightmare's right now.

Prime 2 soundtrack I actually turn off when I play. Prime 1 and 3 I let play but none of the tracks come close to Super or Fusion music to me.

 

[Toxi]

Prime 2 soundtrack I actually turn off when I play. Prime 1 and 3 I let play but none of the tracks come close to Super or Fusion music to me.

nightmaremelting.gif

 

[TheDinoman]

Spore spawn has awesome music but yeah the boss fight is just a 30 second speedbump to any play through.

You can actually skip the whole thing. You just got to learn how to Mockball to get the first batch of Super Missiles, then when you get to the pink room, you bomb the one passage way and hit the Super Missile block, which grants access to the Super Missile room without having to fight Spore Spawn. I do it every time I play through it.

 

[Magicpaint]

The Prime series have the best music and atmosphere. Prime 1 especially is perfection.

 

[Bloodporne]

I don't know how highly it is regarded but Fusion's soundtrack is amazing. Does a great job of setting the serious/scary tone of the mission.

Hope SR does a good job with the music. The music of the Prime games is the weakest part of the trilogy to me.

 

[Toxi]

You can actually skip the whole thing. You just got to learn how to Mockball to get the first batch of Super Missiles, then when you get to the pink room, you bomb the one passage way and hit the Super Missile block, which grants access to the Super Missile room without having to fight Spore Spawn. I do it every time I play through it.

It took me fucking forever to get the mockball down. But man was it worth it.

 

[Mael]

Cool to have definitive comments that this is clearly not Metroid II.
There's very little focus in that game aside from boss battles (metroids).
And even then the encounters are usually a tense and messy if a bit short.
Like Zero Mission, it's not trying to be the game it's trying to remake but at least if it's not trying to be Super Metroid it shouldn't be as bad.

 

[Jonneh3003]

This is certainly another Zero Mission. It doesn't try to be a loyal remake of Metroid 2, it tries to be better than that. There are very few direct references to Metroid 2 outside of the premise.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Happy to see such good reviews. I can't wait for Friday.

 

[Im_So_Pringles]

I don't know how highly it is regarded but Fusion's soundtrack is amazing. Does a great job of setting the serious/scary tone of the mission.

Hope SR does a good job with the music. The music of the Prime games is the weakest part of the trilogy to me.

Damn. Prime Trilogy have legendary soundtracks IMO.

 

[TheDinoman]

This is certainly another Zero Mission. It doesn't try to be a loyal remake of Metroid 2, it tries to be better than that. There are very few direct references to Metroid 2 outside of the premise.

I will say, for all of its differences, Zero Mission's map is still kinda sort of based on Metroid's layout. Here's Brinstar, for example.

A lot of changes, but the general gist is still there. Samus Returns on the other hands to have 100% completely different level design from Metroid 2.

Which is fine, because like I said before, AM2R already was to M2 as ZM was to the original Metroid, featuring many changes but still preserving some of the old map design, so I'm happy they went in a different direction with this one.

 

[Fast Forward]

The reviews are certainly really encouraging. Zero Mission was an all-time favorite, and this looks like another great remake in the series.

Still wish it was coming to the Switch (along with the 3DS), but whatever. Already pre-purchased this on the eShop.

 

[VDenter]

Prime 2 soundtrack I actually turn off when I play. Prime 1 and 3 I let play but none of the tracks come close to Super or Fusion music to me.

 

[Jonneh3003]

I will say, for all of its differences, Zero Mission's map is still kinda sort of based on Metroid's layout. Here's Brinstar, for example.

A lot of changes, but the general gist is still there. Samus Returns on the other hands to have 100% completely different level design from Metroid 2.

Which is fine, because like I said before, AM2R already was to M2 as ZM was to the original Metroid, featuring many changes but still preserving some of the old map design, so I'm happy they went in a different direction with this one.

You're right! It sure feels different though.

 

[MechaX]

Zero Mission's boss roster feels kinda half-assed.

"Here's a giant worm! Here's another giant worm! Here's a giant bug! Here's a fucking painting."

Outside of the big two (Kraid and Ridley), Zero Mission's bosses were pretty lackluster. I know Crocmire got cut, but I don't think they even would have done anything interesting with him.

Fusion is a weird case because it has some of the best and worst bosses in the entire franchise.

 

[Mael]

Playing Metroid 1 and 2 at the same time is such a jarring experience!
Metroid 1 is relentless with the flying shit the game throws at you that can kill you even while you're leaving the room.
Metroid 2 is so much more subdued and then you encounter a Metroid and you're fighting for your life harder than ever :lol
In both cases Screw attack makes things so much easier!