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Michael Jackson to be played by a white actor.
- Thread starter torre_avenue
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Reading this thread again reminds exactly why I have so much respect for Michael Jackson. Other than being an absolutely astonishing artist of course.
This man has gone through hell and back in his life. A lot of what he did were strange, yes, but he did them all for a reason. I was a huge fan of MJ throughout my entire life and, as such, I've seen a lot of details about his personal life, the man had to go through so many allegations in terms of his sexuality, appearance, career, children, and even his craft that it still amazes me he that still had the guts to be in the public eye right until the very end of his days.
Michael deserves the "legend" status through and through.
This man has gone through hell and back in his life. A lot of what he did were strange, yes, but he did them all for a reason. I was a huge fan of MJ throughout my entire life and, as such, I've seen a lot of details about his personal life, the man had to go through so many allegations in terms of his sexuality, appearance, career, children, and even his craft that it still amazes me he that still had the guts to be in the public eye right until the very end of his days.
Michael deserves the "legend" status through and through.
Again, this what untreated vitiligo looks like. This model has chosen try to and end the ignorance and stigma surrounding the condition. Others choose to hide it by bleaching the skin.
Interesting enough, the hair thing is incredibly minimal. Despite having vitiligo on my head and face, my moustache, goatee, and hair are still mostly black. Just a few bits of white here and there. But again, I'm 36, it's hard to tell how much of the little bit of white in my hair is from vitiligo, or just me getting older.
Here's two of me:
Kinda offtopic to MJ ... but is there any explanation to why the white spots are somehow symetrical on the face and not even close to that on the rest of the body ?
No explanation, but vitiligo tends to try and be symmetrical wherever it effects the body.
For example, if you have it on the left hand, it will more than likely be present on the right hand. If you have it behind the right knee, it will be present behind the left knee. What's happening with vitiligo is that it's an auto-immune disease in which the white blood cells of your body start destroying the melanocytes that cause pigmentation. As they are killed off, it causes the de-pigmentation of the affected areas to become white. Symmetry is everywhere in nature, so I imagine that it's just a byproduct of whatever mental process triggers vitiligo. Stress is one of a few a suggested trigger, so a lot of vitiligo's patterns could be some wires misfiring in your brain during intense stress. There's never going to be complete symmetry to it, but it will appear on both sides of the body, in roughly the same spots. Winnie Harlow's facial de-pigmentation symmetry is quite amazing, actually. It usually isn't like that. My own face lacks that level of symmetry, despite having the de-pigmentaiton in the same spot on both sides of my face.
When I discovered the first white spot on my face, I was going through a tough adjustment period of living in Los Angeles. Work was difficult, I was struggling financially, I didn't have a place of my own (living with strangers, family, and roommates), I was lonely and frustrated. As my life situation got worse, the spotting got worse. It really blew up when my cousin was murdered, and I had to fly back home for the funeral. After I returned to Los Angeles, and lost my job (they weren't happy that I dared to take time off work to go to a fucking funeral; they made things so miserable for me at work that I eventually quit), the vitiligo de-pigmentation became much more aggressive.
Vitiligo also doesn't stay in the same spot forever. I've had areas of my skin re-pigment, while others de-pigmented. Even on my face, there are times when my forehead will be the natural color, only to have it lose pigmentation again some months later. Because there isn't much research put into finding out the causes of vitiligo, there just isn't much hope for those of us that suffer it. The best we can hope for is that attitudes about it change (working in customer service was a nightmare; the things customers would say to me/about me was just awful. I was in a miserable place for years until I met my wife, and eventually found a job that I love, with awesome people that treat me like a human being for a change), and maybe people become more empathetic and understanding of the condition.
It's a shame that Michael Jackson's coming out with having vitiligo didn't lead to more widespread attempts to educate people on the condition, so that maybe sufferer's wouldn't be treated like plague victims (I still encounter people regularly who won't shake my hand, or accept food or money from me, and go out of their way to avoid touching me or anything I have touched; a lot of them try to do it subtly, most of them are overt; I pretend I don't notice).
Any suggestions for a black actor who looks or could look somewhat similar to Michael Jackson at age 43?
Airola
Member
Thanks for the explanation !
Also, how non surprised am I that the most "midia focused" example is almost an "unobtained ideal" type of the disease ? =P
dreamlongdead
Member
Michael Jackson's final appearance basically had zero resemblance to his early 80s look. He looked like a completely different person.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Then how did he have kids?
Airola
Member
Michael said in an interview that vitiligo runs in the family. I don't remember if he said it was from her mother's or father's side, but vitiligo was something that some of his relatives also had.
Had no idea though that his son has it too
Anyways, I remember how people used to make fun of Michael "making himself white" by having some sort of a chemical bleaching system done to him. Then, when Michael revealed in the Oprah interview that he has vitiligio, people were STILL laughing, but now saying there is no such disease that makes a person's skin white and Michael is obviously lying.
These same persons seemed to base their hatred for everything Michael did on their assumption that he looks freaky and has personally done that to himself with tons of money and doctors. So maybe it was just too hard to find out all their bashing was based on false information and baseless prejudice, so it was just easier to dismiss this thing as a lie.
My dad was one of those who didn't appreciate Michael at all and always brought up what he looked like, BUT I'm so glad he always supported me in being a fan of Michael and even bought some merchandise and albums for me. He never let his prejudice stop me from liking Michael.
Just_myles
Member
Ok. Let me see him with makeup and prosthetic. This totally sounds like a comedy.
Michael said in an interview that vitiligo runs in the family. I don't remember if he said it was from her mother's or father's side, but vitiligo was something that some of his relatives also had.
Had no idea though that his son has it too
Anyways, I remember how people used to make fun of Michael "making himself white" by having some sort of a chemical bleaching system done to him. Then, when Michael revealed in the Oprah interview that he has vitiligio, people were STILL laughing, but now saying there is no such disease that makes a person's skin white and Michael is obviously lying.
These same persons seemed to base their hatred for everything Michael did on their assumption that he looks freaky and has personally done that to himself with tons of money and doctors. So maybe it was just too hard to find out all their bashing was based on false information and baseless prejudice, so it was just easier to dismiss this thing as a lie.
My dad was one of those who didn't appreciate Michael at all and always brought up what he looked like, BUT I'm so glad he always supported me in being a fan of Michael and even bought some merchandise and albums for me. He never let his prejudice stop me from liking Michael.
Yeah, it's incredibly sad, and disgusting, how fucking venomous people were towards him when he revealed on Oprah that he had vitiligo. The condition is supposedly super rare (it affects 2% of the population, which seems small, until you take into account that there are 7 billion people on the planet...). Even when I was first diagnosed with vitiligo, they weren't entirely sure what it was, and just shrugged at me when I asked if there was any treatments. I had to go to two or three different doctors before one actually diagnosed me with vitiligo. The other one(s) had no idea. That was back in like 2000, 2001 or so.
It's weird, because I live in LA, and I've come across many, many people that have vitiligo. I was beginning to suspect that it wasn't as rare as I thought. It was interesting, last year, I met with this new doctor just for a basic physical checkup, and one of the first things she asked me was how long had I had vitiligo. I was surprised, because she was the first doctor I talked to that even knew what it was. I can't even tell you how many doctors would ask me what my skin condition was.
I was "lucky" in that I didn't grow up with vitiligo, so I can't imagine what Fiction's son is going through. I was teased in school for other reasons (being short, being light skinned, being black, not being black enough, etc, there was always something to pick on me about), so having vitiligo at such a young age just makes me incredibly sad, especially considering how I'm treated as an adult, by other adults, let alone a child, being treated that way by your peers, and even the teachers. I really hope that perception of the condition changes over time, but we live in a culture that idolizes physical perfection over any other traits you may have. As long as his support system is in place, though, I think he'll be okay, and who knows, maybe by the time he reaches my age, there will be some kind of treatments for it.
I'm concerned about the condition affecting my kids when (if/hopefully; we're trying to conceive, with difficulty) me and my wife have them. I'm hoping it passes them by, but I'm prepared to raise hell if they have it and are mistreated by people.
You're welcome!
Yeah, I'm not surprised either. The media would indeed latch onto the most "ideal" version of vitiligo you could have. One that looks strikingly beautiful and symmetrical, almost intentional. Winnie is also beautiful period, with and without vitiligo. Most vitiligo is very "wild" and "untamed" for lack of a better term, despite an underlying order in the chaos (ie, the attempt at symmetry), but hey, if this beautiful woman with vitiligo is who we need to bring awareness to the condition, I can't say I'm upset by it.
Also, the suicide girl with vitiligo is named Auriga Suicide. https://suicidegirls.com/girls/auriga/. I posted her profile in a link, since she has a lot of nudes. Her vitiligo covers over 50% of her body, meaning that there is no hope for treatment, as most treatments can help if the spread of white splotches is smaller. I don't know what percentage vitiligo has over my body, but I don't think it's 50%. Most of my body is my natural skin color.
I'm another person with vitiligo, but luckily I'm just about as white as is possible, so most of the spots aren't especially obvious unless I get tan, which I of course avoid at all costs. I've had some white hair since high school, though.
Like others in here affected by it one way or another, the whole "MJ bleached his skin because he wanted to be white" thing has always infuriated me.
Like others in here affected by it one way or another, the whole "MJ bleached his skin because he wanted to be white" thing has always infuriated me.
Same for me as far as family history with the disease. I appear to be the first. We also have native american on both sides of my family (my mom and dad both), but mostly I identify as Black/Samoan. And like I said before, I didn't develop symptoms until I was around 20-21. It was incredibly hard, because I had finally started getting some self esteem and confidence around that time, and then the move to LA, work, stress, etc, started weighing me down, and to cap it off, I got vitiligo. It has been an uphill struggle there.
I'm sorry to hear that your son had it since he was 5. I can't imagine going 31, 32 years with the condition. I hope he's doing well, though! It's great to have a strong familial support system, but I admit that that's only part of the process. It is hard having strangers pointing and making comments, or kids saying cruel things to you when you walk down the street. I get really, really anxious when I'm on the bus to work, and I'm running behind schedule, and the high school rush is on the bus. It gets very uncomfortable, and sometimes they say rude stuff, which is embarrassing and I just want to crawl into a hole.
The temptation to just go through complete de-pigmentation is really great at those times, but I honestly really like my brown skin. I just identify so strongly with my complexion that I don't want to lose it, even with the white splotches.
Since this NeoGAF, I will go with the only correct answer...Idris Elba.
No, this crappy movie shouldn't be made.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Black or white jokes ain't gonna stop, hombre..
LilWayneSuckz
Member
Do the people saying "he looked white so I'm okay with this" not realize that black people come in all different shades and colors. They could have found a black actor with light skin complexion comparable to MJ, the producers didn't have to default to Joseph Fiennes.
I'm glad that he's adjusting so well to it. I lived 20 years of my life looking a certain way, and then to "suddenly" have that change, it was a shock to me. I hope your son continues to be so awesome about his condition. It's encouraging to me!
And thank you! I've always been self conscious about my looks, so when I got vitiligo, it was at a time when I was slowly feeling comfortable with how I looked, sending me into a period of depression. It didn't help that a constant string of rejection from women that I thought I had a good rapport with followed, and I (perhaps incorrectly), assumed it was the vitiligo that drew it away. I've never considered myself good looking or handsome. It does mean a lot to me when people find me attractive or handsome, though. You continue to be one of my favorite posters (complimenting my looks does earn bonus points. XD)
If it were just skin tone, this wouldn't even be a debate.
Money no object, I would do CG, because the only person in the world I can think of that resembles MJ in his 40s is
MJ in his 40s
A made for TV movie, I'll probably go with the actor (black or white) that requires the least amount of work.
RustyNails
Member
I find that really hard to be true. If he did that stuff, why didn't he do it on the entire Jackson 5? Besides I'm not sure he was legally allowed to do that. But....holy shit if true. Any sources? Did MJ ever speak about it?
brainchild
Banned
Not only do you look great, but you don't even look like you're 36 years old. Kudos to you embracing your condition. I hope you don't go the de-pigmentation route.
Thank you! A lot of people are surprised when I tell them I'm 36. Lol. I'm probably never going to go the de-pigmentation route, mainly because it opens up so many doors for health risks.
Killing_Joke
Member
I've watched a lot of shit on the internet. But this really takes the cake.
gamerMan
Member
Wow you are inspiring and forget about what the nay sayers think. The media made up a lot of crap about Michael and people just took it as fact. I wish he had the courage to get up on stage with his vitiligo, because the man had unbelievable talent and a heart. It really didn't make him less human. He was a real superman. This is the Michael Jackson I know: You Won't believe how much Michael Jackson gave to charity. He wanted to save the world.
Here's what Michael said about a white actor playing him.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/28/michael-jackson-white-actor-casting-oprah-interview
It makes me sad what this world did to him. They turned him into a monster and he did things to himself that he should not have, but nobody know what it feel like to be stared at and pointed at all time. Nobody knows what it is like when people don't sit next to you. Nobody know what's it's like to be not accepted.
Hari Seldon
Member
Read the first page of this thread and I was getting mad with all that "he made himself look white" crap, glad someone corrected this.
Twilight Gap
Member
well there you have it from the man himself
Dreams-Visions
Member
Thanks for the good insight and info, all who provided it.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Didn't a white women play him in that movie that came around the 93 abuse case?
That was some weird ass shit.
That was some weird ass shit.
There is nothing official. As for how the other kids escaped, The Jackson Brothers wasn't a huge hit with the older kids. The Jackson Five really came into it when MJ came in. At which point the voice of Tito and co didn't matter.
excelsiorlef
Member
Agreed.
I'm not surprised by the ignorance in this thread. Many people know nothing when it comes to vitiligo yet act like experts.
The idea for the film is pathetic. It'll just make a mockery of all three. Even more so given this road trip never happened so they'll make something up.
Vitiligo can be quite beautiful though, it's unusual but not an eyesore in any way. I don't think it's something that someone would feel they had to try and hide and it's sad that Jackson felt he had to. I wish he'd just have 'owned it', it would have made acceptance easier I feel but I understand there must have been a huge amount of pressure to cover it up so I'm not surprised that he felt he had to. There are a lot of sad things about Jackson's life that are really symptomatic of the illusion of pop stardom's perfection.
So many people in the world 'manufacture' their own uniqueness in an attempt to stand out so it's strange that people who don't have the condition would have a problem with something as beautifully unique as Vitiligo.
So many people in the world 'manufacture' their own uniqueness in an attempt to stand out so it's strange that people who don't have the condition would have a problem with something as beautifully unique as Vitiligo.
What evidence do you have of this molestation? Let me guess, you read the media's tales?
Here is what the media didn't tell you. And this applies to all who believe MJ was guilty.
First kid in 1993.
Evan, the father is acting like a jealous brat. Jordy (his son) wanted nothing to do with him. And MJ stopped calling Evan. It appeared basically the family wanted nothing to do with Evan. This whole thing basically began because Jordy wanted nothing to do with his Father and nor did MJ.
Jordy's stepfather, Dave, records a telephone conversation between himself and Evan a day before Evan wanting to meet MJ, June, Jordy and Dave.
Here are some excerpts:
Except there was nothing to break up. Evan and the boy's mother, June, had divorced. Evan had a new wife and two kids. Dave, the step father, had also separated from June.
Yet he says later:
Throughout the phone call Evan never mentions molestation. The closest thing mentioned to molestation was...
Dave tells MJ and June about the conversation. Later MJ's lawyer talks to Jordy. MJ isn't present. MJ's lawyer asks very specific questions about if MJ had touched him etc and Jordy responds no to every single one. He says his father just wants money.
The meeting Evan wanted doesn't take place. MJ, June and Jordy refuse to meet him.
Jordy goes to his Father's home as part of the visitation order and Evan refuses to return him.
So at some stage, who knows when, Evan 'suspects' his son was abused. What did the father do? Ask his son? Ask his ex wife in control of the boy? What would fathers on this forum do? Or put yourself in the position of a father who 'suspects' their child had been abused.
What he did:
The father's lawyer told a child psychologist of a hypothetical scenario and the psychologist gave a report that, if the scenario presented to him was true, it was likely a child had been molested.
Conveniently on the day the report from the psychologist arrives, the boy confesses. Up until this point he denied it constantly. After a dental procedure Jordy came round and finally 'admitted' to MJ supposedly abusing him. Evan asked if MJ had abused him, Jordy responded 'Yes'. Evan never asked any other questions! Such as 'when?', 'where?' or 'how many times?' According to Evan's brother 'a simple yes was enough'.
So what did Evan do next? What would parents on this forum do next?
What the father did:
Go to the police? No. Tell the boy's Mother? No. He arranged a meeting with MJ and his lawyer. Upon entering the room of the meeting did the father kick the shit out of MJ? No. He hugged him and then got out his hypothetical scenario letter from a psychologist. It's said that when Evan was about to leave the room he pointed to MJ and said 'I'm going to ruin you'. Later MJ's lawyer, Evan and his lawyer meet. Evan demands $20 million in return for silence. This is refused.
More 'negotiating' ensues. MJ's lawyer never gave a serious offer during any of this. One would assume any negotiating only happened as it was a tight line to walk. Either point blank and refuse and Evan tells the world or keep him stalled for a while to weigh things up. At one stage MJ's lawyer suggested $350,000. Later, Evan's lawyer demands three movie deals. An agreement isn't reached.
Days later the two lawyers meet alone during which MJ's lawyer recorded the conversation and said no mention of abuse was said. It was all about money. In the end no 'deal' was reached.
More 'negotiating' ensues. MJ's lawyer never gave a serious offer during any of this. One would assume any negotiating only happened as it was a tight line to walk. Either point blank and refuse and Evan tells the world or keep him stalled for a while to weigh things up. At one stage MJ's lawyer suggested $350,000. Later, Evan's lawyer demands three movie deals. An agreement isn't reached.
Days later the two lawyers meet alone during which MJ's lawyer recorded the conversation and said no mention of abuse was said. It was all about money. In the end no 'deal' was reached.
The mother at this stage deems the whole abuse allegation nonsense.
The deadline for Evan to return the boy to his Mother as part of the custodial agreement reaches. Evan has still by this time not told the police. Instead of returning the boy to his Mother he takes him to a child psychologist where Jordy tells all of what had supposedly gone on.
Unfortunately, for Evan, he didn't realise that child psychologists by law must tell the police of any possible abuse. That is when law enforcement came in. Evan had never rung them himself and nor did he want to. He wanted money from the start.
Two days later the boy's Mother still doesn't believe anything happened. Her lawyer and her and Evan's lawyer meet. All of a sudden, the boy's mother has a 'change of heart'.
Then the whole thing went public. During the whole time Evan wanted money. He filed a civil suit. It's clear Evan never wanted justice. Gloria Allred was hired (Who went after MJ again and failed, and is also representing many Cosby accusers). When she publicly announced her client was willing to testify she was sacked almost immediately. Brought in was a civil lawyer.
That isn't the end of that allegation of course, but I'm trying to make this post as relatively short as possible. Although it's still long. A settlement was reached in January 1994 (if anybody cares I'll go into that). Afterwards Evan's brother wrote a BOOK about the alleged molestation. Evan also filed another lawsuit against MJ and others wanting $60 million and a record deal. He wanted to SING about his son's supposed ABUSE! I kid you not.
Jordy also emancipated from both parents. Evan, in 2005, also attempted to kill Jordy with a dumbbell and mace him yet his brother said he was too ill from cancer to testify in the 2005 trial. How convenient.
In 2005 the trial was a joke. What the media didn't tell you was MJ had known Gavin (the boy who accused) for two years. During this time he never molested him. The Martin Bashir documentary airs and causes hysteria. The media are in overdrive, Child Services are investigating and so are police force.
The prosecutions tale is MJ then, after the Bashir documentary and the hysteria and investigations decides to make himself a guilty man and molest Gavin. Does that make any sense? He's not guilty yet chooses to make himself guilty?
The other claim was the family were imprisoned at Neverland. However, somehow, the Mother, Janet, managed to spend over $3000 on spa treatments and clothing during her imprisonment. Add to that during her imprisonment, and all the times she escaped to go shopping, she told nobody about it. Never rung the police or anything. It was said they had no idea what the time was during the imprisonment despite giant clocks all around the Neverland ranch.
Add to this we're meant to believe that MJ molested a kid in 1993 and then never touched a child for ten years after... makes sense.
Helping MJ to imprison and enable him to abuse the child were five co conspirators. What happened to them? They were never INDICTED! These people who, going by the prosecution's story, had committed crimes were never charged.
2005 was Tom Sneddon's vendetta coming to the fore. He was desperate to put MJ behind bars in 1993, yet in ten years of searching after '93 could find only this family who had accused others of sexual abuse before and were known grifters.
Sneddon also at the conference to announce charges in 2003 was laughing and joking. Jovial despite being there to announce charges of molestation against a child. Conveniently Neverland was raided on the day MJ's new CD was released. He knew about the allegations for months yet decided to raid on that day? When asked if the raid was to coincide with MJ's new CD release, Sneddon denied it and said they couldn't raid earlier due to traffic on Halloween... God forbid traffic stopping a supposed paedophile, eh?
There was never any evidence. MJ also never slept in the same bed as Gavin.
This is a long post yet is only the tip of the iceberg of the nonsense allegations.
Puppet Shadow
Member
Huh, I was in the 'He wanted to look white' camp until I read through this thread. Thanks to Figboy79 and others who suffer from this for educating me.
That's a massively flawed theory. His singing voice changed. He's also spoken in a deeper voice at times. There are also pictures of him with facial hair, although we have no idea if he had body hair elsewhere.
He wasn't castrated otherwise his autopsy report wouldn't of revealed his private area details. Lisa Marie Presley would also confirm it given it became the only thing keeping the marriage going and they were still seeing each other years after.
IrishNinja
Member
posted? pretty much all that need be said on the matter
formasymphonic
Member
Love the second pic brah - use it as your avatar
Trust me, it is insanely hard for someone to "own" having vitiligo. It has been nothing but a struggle for me for 16 years, because of the way the outside world perceives it, and treats you because of it. If people didn't recoil from you when you reach out to hand them something, or take something away from them, if they didn't point, stare, "whisper" about you behind your back (I put whisper in quotes because they aren't as quiet as they think they're being), rudely ask "what's wrong with your face?" audibly say "ewww" as you walk by, refer to you as "the burned guy," refuse to be served by you if you work in the food industry, write horribly mean-spirited letters to corporate office trying to get you fired because you "grossed them out," I could go on and on, maybe, must maybe, it'd be easier for vitiligo sufferers to wear their condition proudly. I live in one of the most populist cities in the United States, Los Angeles, and going about my daily business is an exercise in anxiety. Not a day has gone by since I got vitiligo that I haven't encountered at least one of the above mentioned scenarios, some more than others. Every time I feel like I'm coming to terms with my condition, I meet another person who looks at me like I'm the most disgusting thing on the planet. The turned up noses, frowns, repulsed expressions on their faces the moment they see me (it's an involuntary reaction I've come to notice when a complete stranger sees me for the first time), it just sends me right back into depression and insecurity.
Being a mega star like Michael was, I can imagine the pressure to hide his condition as much as possible. We're treated like lepers.
I've had very, very few people say kind things to me (this really attractive black girl at a Smart & Final called me beautiful when she was ringing me and my wife up at the register), but they have been rare. It's just not easy. If it wasn't for my wife and my close friends, I'd have fallen apart a long time ago. For Michael, who was already a celebrity, surrounded by people that just wanted to take from him, I imagine he felt incredibly isolated when it came to his condition. I feel really bad for him.
Lol. Thank you! That's my Patrick Stewart/Professor X "It's too late, I've seen everything," pose. I may have to switch avatars now. lol.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Red Liquorice
Member
This thread went from usual silly celebrity japes to incredibly informative. Thanks for your input Figboy79
whoa thanks for all that.
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