Microsoft is funding “Take Us North” a game about illegal immigration to the US
- Thread starter Kacho
- Start date
RCX
Member
They're absolutely entitled to make it. And I am entitled not to spend any money on it.
Freedom of speech is needed for speech you don't like, not what you do. That way in the future when you want to say, write or make something unpopular you'll be able to.
Saying "puppy dogs are lovely" isn't going to stir any debate. Saying "I like my country the way it is" certainly will. What side you fall on in that debate is irrelevant. The fact that you can have the debate is what matters.
What nobody is entitled to is to be sheltered from the criticism that comes. You put it out there, don't cry foul when people push back afterwards.
Freedom of speech is needed for speech you don't like, not what you do. That way in the future when you want to say, write or make something unpopular you'll be able to.
Saying "puppy dogs are lovely" isn't going to stir any debate. Saying "I like my country the way it is" certainly will. What side you fall on in that debate is irrelevant. The fact that you can have the debate is what matters.
What nobody is entitled to is to be sheltered from the criticism that comes. You put it out there, don't cry foul when people push back afterwards.
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Bumblebeetuna
Member
Of course it's art, and it can also be propaganda. They aren't mutually exclusive. It's a team of writers tackling an issue and telling a story through their own bias. No doubt they are hoping they can portray it in a way that would make certain people more sympathetic or empathetic towards the issue. Countless movies, books, music, video games exist that do this.
Funny you mention cultists. As someone else mentioned, there are games that already exist or are on the way that take the opposite stance on this or glorify border patrol/ICE agents. You "cultists" weren't up in arms about those games because your roach god didn't make a ragebait video to make money while you caught feelings. It would be sad if we weren't so used to it.
Maybe just don't play the game. AFAIK it's an ID@Xbox indie title. Its not a big deal, people.
viveks86
Member
This is factually incorrect. America had a problem with immigrants every time any group came in droves and put pressure on available resources. Ask the Irish. We don't seemingly have a problem now because they are statistically much smaller. And they get deported just like the others. They just don't get as much press and public attention due to them being < 10%.
It's neither plain nor simple
So more than 50% who voted for this are racists? America certainly has a racism problem. But it's not a racist country. Far less racist than most countries in the world. Which is why it is so racially diverse in the first place. Good luck feeling remotely as accepted in more racially homogeneous countries in Europe, Middle East, Africa or Asia. Out of personal experience, I can assure you that even if they might be nice to me, I would always be an outsider, even if I were born there.
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All of Hollywood was/is propaganda. It was created and financed to spread the ideals and strengths of America as a nation, it was a tool of western governmental propaganda to help facilitate the rise and prominence of western civilisation, and to weaken our enemies, so western ideals would spread to those counties, whilst also instilling a sense of nationalism (needed for the various wars). Same with DC/Marcel.
At some point there was a disconnect from any "grand plan" that furthered the actual goals of western civilisation, and it became a tool of far left ideology, often pushing actions that are destructive to those civilisations, whether that's unchecked immigration, unpunished crime, family no longer a virtue, rampant individualism. Etc.
M
I fear this thread is starting to devolve into a politics thread.
But my perspective, it is 100% political propaganda. If it was about a game or telling a story, they would have shown that and focussed on showing the game, but they got so wrapped up with political preaching that they forgot to show the trailer and were rushed off the stage having run out of time. You couldn't get a clearer example of where their priorities were. It was clearly also only telling one side of it.
I'm a British centrist and this was clear as day and off putting, whilst seeming to be encouraging illegal immigration. What you're seeing in things like asmongolds video is the even stronger feelings of how people actually on the right feel about this (who are 50% of the U.S.).
To get an idea of how ridiculous it is, just flip the script in regards ideological priorities.
It's now not a game about crossing the border, instead it's a game about shutting down abortion clinics. It's financed by google, press say how brave they are and how it's good to see google taking a stand. They are given 30 mins to show it off at a major conference, where the crowd say "fuck the child killers" and the dev responds "too right!". The devs instead of showing the game proceed to talk about the pain of foetus's, they show lots of clips of pastors saying people will burn in hell, crying mothers, and footage of procedures. Then forget to show the game itself.
That would be ridiculous and offensive right?It would be straight up ideological political propaganda, wildly inappropriate, and whilst it can exist in a free society, it's definitely problematic, and it sure as hell shouldn't be funded by google, and people would be well within their rights to critique it with the language that is being used to critique this game.
Again, that's not to say there's not interesting stories you could tell related to either topic, but this sure as shit wouldn't be the way to do it.
keefged4
Member
Exactly. Let's cancel Perfect Dark but keep this pish. tf are they smoking
MiguelItUp
Member
It's just another one of "those" games. If it was released, it would appeal to a select amount of people that would view it as art. May or may not enjoy it, and move on. That's really it. I don't see the problem in stuff like this existing as we've already had various forms of these types of indies coming to light. They just come and go. I feel like the whole ID @ Microsoft titles have been filled with titles that are very "art driven", so something like this doesn't surprise me. In today's climate though, I don't know what kind of reaction they expected.
Also, them cancelling titles and still supporting something like this isn't saying a whole lot. Especially when you're talking about extremely expensive AAA titles, and stuff that's chump change to them that they think will make them potentially look better in the eyes of indie developers that want/need support. At least that's what I'm thinking.
Also, Pirat_Nation and Asmongold on the first post? Come on man, lmao. I wish we'd stop seeing baiters and grifters shared here.
Also, them cancelling titles and still supporting something like this isn't saying a whole lot. Especially when you're talking about extremely expensive AAA titles, and stuff that's chump change to them that they think will make them potentially look better in the eyes of indie developers that want/need support. At least that's what I'm thinking.
Also, Pirat_Nation and Asmongold on the first post? Come on man, lmao. I wish we'd stop seeing baiters and grifters shared here.
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Kacho
Gold Member
The optics are bad.
MiguelItUp
Member
Let's be fair, there's a lot that's going on at Microsoft that is beyond questionable, and that's been widely apparent. But their ID @ Microsoft titles have always kind of been this and similar for a long, long time.
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Kacho
Gold Member
There's always room for improvement. Especially with Xbox's current position in the market. Canceling games people want while associating with slop like this does not grow their business.
MiguelItUp
Member
Of course, but that's definitely something that's not just going to happen overnight. I think it's beyond clear they need to restructure and reevaluate their approach. The timing of this all just felt bizarre and tone deaf, but their behavior has been odd for awhile now.
Shifty1897
Member
If you paid attention to my posts you would see there's no platform warring here. I dish it out to all of the big three.
Nintendo loves the smell of their own farts and has priced a lot of people out of their ecosystem, including me. Sony made a 5 billion dollar mistake chasing GaaS, and Microsoft has no viable business model and hasn't had one since 2013.
You would think I'm a PC gamer because I basically have nothing bad to say about Steam except I find PC gaming expensive and uncomfortable for me because I sit at a desk all day for work.
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lughnasadh123
Member
The differing amount of people each with their own specific motivations for crossing over illegally offers a lot of interesting stories to tell in ways we don't typically get to see. A game doesn't necessarily need to adhere to morality or the law for it to be enjoyable as we've seen with countless other titles already notably one that's about to be biggest launch ever.
I don't mind a game being political - people are, so naturally some of that will be in the stories they create. The question is how narratively nuanced they can make it without it just being an obnoxious sledgehammer. Hopefully they can pull it off.
I don't mind a game being political - people are, so naturally some of that will be in the stories they create. The question is how narratively nuanced they can make it without it just being an obnoxious sledgehammer. Hopefully they can pull it off.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Propaganda might be all around us. But that neither makes it art nor does it make it worthwhile.
What are you even arguing? That because something is ubiquitous, it's somehow good?
Toots
Member
You have to factor in the game's budget.
This one cost one Jean Paul II shirt (which looks killer by the way), two packs of batteries, half a tube of toothpaste, a pair of leather diesel jeans, pork chop flavored chips, granma's tortillas, a spoiled banana and of course clotrimazole*
At least according to my source
*Clotrimazole : Azoles (e.g., Clotrimazole) are generally recommended for the local treatment of vulvovaginal candidiasis characterized by vulvovaginal symptoms such as itching, burning, discharge, redness, swelling, and pain. (from the French public medication database)
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
If you think propaganda is art then you're probably enslaved to ideology and you clearly have no taste.
Propaganda isn't art. Art exists to speak to and/or move the human soul. Propaganda is soulless horseshit that exists to serve a political agenda. Propaganda has no artistic value at all. It's frankly fucking laughable to suggest otherwise.
viveks86
Member
Nah. I think Microsoft's role in this is being blown out of proportion.
I actually don't mind games exploring this topic. I would even applaud it. But given the team and their seeming obsession with identity, I don't expect much more than a one-sided melodrama that demonizes the other side. There will likely be no new ground that hundreds of great and terrible documentaries have not already covered.
So... it's just... a whatever fart in the wind that generates a bunch of noise and then will be long forgotten
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
A.Romero
Member
What I understood from what you are saying you are OK with the kind of propaganda that aligns to your views but not something different and that's alright but propaganda is propaganda. Some of it is state sponsored like Hollywood and some of it comes from other sources.
Hollywood has been considered a liberal propaganda machine for quite a while, specially considering how many A listers directly participate in activism that would be considered leftist (Dicaprio, Clooney, etc).
I respect your decision of not playing it, I will probably won't play it myself but as with any other game I think the world would be worse if it didn't exist. To me it's more important for the medium to become a full fledged medium for expression, even if I don't like everything they put out or play it.
When talking about movies Tarantino and the rest of high exposure directors are not the ones putting forward subversive or propagandistic material out there. Most people don't even know what's out there because nobody cares. Only in gaming people feel there is people that feel that only the games about ideas they approve should exist (and I'm taking about both sides of the spectrum).
15 years ago nobody would have cared this game exists.
DryvBy
Member
I'm pretty sure everyone cares about that too. Don't even get me started on the British coming over here with their tea and slop food.
Zacfoldor
Member
I'm fine with allowing them to have their game. Freedom is scary, yo.
They are not fine with allowing me to have my game.
That's why I'm morally superior.
I don't want your horrible unpopular garbage to be censored, but you will fight with all your power to censor mine. We are not the same.
L E T T H E M A R K E T D E C I D E
They are not fine with allowing me to have my game.
That's why I'm morally superior.
I don't want your horrible unpopular garbage to be censored, but you will fight with all your power to censor mine. We are not the same.
L E T T H E M A R K E T D E C I D E
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Kacho
Gold Member
Strongly disagree. Companies are very particular about what they choose to associate with. They paid people to seek this game out and make a business deal. Who are they? What value are they adding? I'm sure there are better indies worthy of funding.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I see the problem, you think you know what propaganda is but you're too deep in political bullshit to know your ass from your ears. Carry on, make your roach king proud.
A.Romero
Member
I'm just saying that people react to this viscerally. I'm saying that nobody can judge what should be released and what not, censorship is bad all around not only when it's about shit we don't like. I don't particularly care for this game but I do care of gaming being recognized as medium just as important as any other media. I'm not cool with censorship, even when it's aligned to my particular world view.
And also felt like helping you out identifying how movies are full of propaganda.
Madserb2023
Member
I hope they make a sequel about getting to the UK from France. It could be like Wario Land where how well you do decides the size of the house you get.
Zacfoldor
Member
Boss Mog
Member
Disgusting, pure propaganda. They cut a shitload of jobs, yet they apparently have money to fund this shit.
A comment this stupid should be a bannable offense. Show me the articles of the white illegals murdering and raping US citizens, because I can show you plenty from latin American illegals. I won't hold my breath.
It's not about skin color it's about culture and values. When people from third world countries immigrate (illegally or not) to the US or Europe, a lot of them don't make efforts to adapt and integrate and just replicate the behaviors they're used to. A lot of them are bad people to begin with, people who were already criminals in their home country (like cartel members). They take advantage of our lax justice systems that portray them as victims instead of perpetrators. This is why native populations are upset, not because they have darker skin. In the UK, natives aren't upset with Pakistani immigrants because of their skin color, it's because they're gangraping kids. The UK has a lot of Polish immigrants and yet I never see any reports of Polish men gangraping kids. So while it might look like people don't care about white illegals, it more of a case that they represent far less of a threat because there's a good chance they share western culture and values. But not only whites, people probably wouldn't care much about Japanese or Korean illegals, because those nations have similar values. Of course there can be bad apples amongst 1st world immigrants and plenty of 3rd world immigrants are decent people just trying to obtain a better life for themselves and their family but that's why it's important to have closed borders and a strict vetting process so you can let the good people in, and tell the bad ones to go fuck themselves.
My guess is that you haven't traveled much because if you had, you would know that white people are among the least racist/tribal people. Instead, you just regurgitate the propaganda that was fed to you. If you had an intruder illegally enter your home, you'd want them gone would you not? Even if you invited them in, if they suddenly attacked you or your family, you would want them gone, right? That's not racism or xenophobia, it's common sense and survival instinct.
A comment this stupid should be a bannable offense. Show me the articles of the white illegals murdering and raping US citizens, because I can show you plenty from latin American illegals. I won't hold my breath.
It's not about skin color it's about culture and values. When people from third world countries immigrate (illegally or not) to the US or Europe, a lot of them don't make efforts to adapt and integrate and just replicate the behaviors they're used to. A lot of them are bad people to begin with, people who were already criminals in their home country (like cartel members). They take advantage of our lax justice systems that portray them as victims instead of perpetrators. This is why native populations are upset, not because they have darker skin. In the UK, natives aren't upset with Pakistani immigrants because of their skin color, it's because they're gangraping kids. The UK has a lot of Polish immigrants and yet I never see any reports of Polish men gangraping kids. So while it might look like people don't care about white illegals, it more of a case that they represent far less of a threat because there's a good chance they share western culture and values. But not only whites, people probably wouldn't care much about Japanese or Korean illegals, because those nations have similar values. Of course there can be bad apples amongst 1st world immigrants and plenty of 3rd world immigrants are decent people just trying to obtain a better life for themselves and their family but that's why it's important to have closed borders and a strict vetting process so you can let the good people in, and tell the bad ones to go fuck themselves.
My guess is that you haven't traveled much because if you had, you would know that white people are among the least racist/tribal people. Instead, you just regurgitate the propaganda that was fed to you. If you had an intruder illegally enter your home, you'd want them gone would you not? Even if you invited them in, if they suddenly attacked you or your family, you would want them gone, right? That's not racism or xenophobia, it's common sense and survival instinct.
drganon
Member
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Lotta Trump fanatics in this thread. Thought politics were not allowed? As for the game, who gives a shit, we received far worse/weirder indies over the years and it'll be forgotten just like the rest unless you make a big deal out of it, which some of you are doing. Ignorance is bliss.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
MS is big on Immigration as they use the H1-B program to pay developers less money and keep more.
Currently there is this rumor firing up surrounding Walmart H1B use. Rumor is an exec was getting 30k a day from Indian IT companies to abuse the H1B rules. I STATE RUMOR!
Currently there is this rumor firing up surrounding Walmart H1B use. Rumor is an exec was getting 30k a day from Indian IT companies to abuse the H1B rules. I STATE RUMOR!
viveks86
Member
They do these programs for literally hundreds of projects. Some that are woke and many that are not. And Microsoft is as woke as they come. I'm not saying this isn't driven by an agenda. It's just par for the course. I just don't want this to sound like Microsoft has some ulterior motive to bring this project to life through an Indie so that they can be layers removed from it, while funding it and influencing public discourse. Their motivations are pretty transparent. A project like this would naturally fit their DEI initiatives. It gets an eyeroll at best. The market will decide if it's worth the asking price.
In the extremely unlikely event that the game is actually thought provoking and gives a fresh perspective (it won't, but just saying) on an ongoing issue that affects millions , it has every right to exist as any other game, including that sick "rape simulator". Rate it accordingly and voice against it. But there's no need to ban it. Sensible folk will vote with their wallets anyway. I'm a free speech absolutist and would have it no other way.
The only thing cancel culture needs to do is cancel itself.
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MiguelItUp
Member
Basically what I was saying. ID @ Microsoft has been connected to similar indies and others that are more abstract, artistic, etc. Even ones that revolve around other cultures, are personal stories and experiences, etc. Other titles that people never called "propaganda", lmao. Regardless, I'm sure it's an extremely cheap thing for Microsoft to partake in, and it makes them look good to be helping indie developers get their projects off the ground and/or be seen. The only reason this is getting so much "attention" is because of the game's topic, and folks are making it a larger "issue" than it is. I hate our timeline, lmao.
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Kataploom
Gold Member
See? These are the things that really hurt the migrants that actually just want to work and adapt, these types of actions and also defending criminals only alienates people against them more and more because they put them all in the same bag, I say this as a former illegal immigrant, it's difficult enough already and all they do is make life harder for us all
GymWolf
Member
You don't wanna switch from peanut butter and jelly toast to beans on toast?
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Why are you talking about censorship?
Who is trying to censor anything? The way some of you guys jump to absurd conclusions when trying to debate is fucking wild.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Ok, so you have no argument.
I figured as much. I'm not wasting anymore of my precious time on you.
viveks86
Member
And I love it! Which other timeline could we even openly talk about anything from every possible angle? We have at least reached a point where almost no one is afraid to voice an opinion on issues that don't directly affect them. We still have a ways to go when it does affect them, but at least the woke and the anti-woke are emboldened to say their piece. This wasn't quite happening a few years ago.
First step towards understanding is open debate. Without that, we would all sit in our closed boxes with closed minds, screaming about why life is so unfair.
Kacho
Gold Member
It's no different than people criticizing Sony for their GAAS slop. No one says it doesn't have the right to exist.
Wake me up when Microsoft starts funding incest games or Visa starts pressuring Steam to stop selling woke games. These things are not comparable.
Hawk The Slayer
Member
Honestly at least this is nowhere near as bad as if they were to instead make a game that's trying to push all those insane ideas with a dozen genders or something.
Born in the U.S and I'm not even hispanic/brown but I still have empathy for migrants even if they aren't here legally for those that don't commit crime like robbing/raping/harassing the other people in the country. A lot seems to be families trying to get by and work hard. It sucks to see ICE breaking up the ones who don't commit crime. And I don't think this problem was ever that big of a deal in the 80s and 90s.
The mexican/hispanic migrants in the U.S seems way better and safe compared to the migrants thats flooding into European countries where a lot of their groups mostly contain young man instead of woman and children and how they turn some areas in european cities into no go zones where even the cops are too scared to go into. These seems to have a more hidden agenda compared to the hispanic migrants which are just trying to get by.
Born in the U.S and I'm not even hispanic/brown but I still have empathy for migrants even if they aren't here legally for those that don't commit crime like robbing/raping/harassing the other people in the country. A lot seems to be families trying to get by and work hard. It sucks to see ICE breaking up the ones who don't commit crime. And I don't think this problem was ever that big of a deal in the 80s and 90s.
The mexican/hispanic migrants in the U.S seems way better and safe compared to the migrants thats flooding into European countries where a lot of their groups mostly contain young man instead of woman and children and how they turn some areas in european cities into no go zones where even the cops are too scared to go into. These seems to have a more hidden agenda compared to the hispanic migrants which are just trying to get by.
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TheChadOfGaming
Member
Roberts
Member
It's kind of awesome that there are people willing to make games based on sensitive, complicated sociopolitical topics. It's possible they made it purely to get attention or be provocative, but tbh it looks more like an invitation to get a bit more in-depth look at the issue. I know, I will definitely look at it when it comes out.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
My argument is the English language. Propaganda isn't exclusive to politics. Like I said, you are just too far gone on the political end. Even the idea of immigration itself, something the US was founded on and continues to be a pillar of the country, is something you've reduced to political nonsense because your favorite grifters have conditioned it so.
Again, would be sad if it wasn't so cliche nowadays. "Cultists"
Wilhelm_85
Gold Member
We don't need to send them to concentration camps, we need to send them anywhere else besides our country. Of course people who want to see them gone are going to sign up for ICE. You can call them racist all you want, but it's not just white Americans signing up for ICE.
Who is *they* and how do you solve for human greed?