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[Emperor Bohe]

I heard that Microsoft is going to scrap the XBONE and rerelease the original Xbox, in a bid to capitalize on Millenial nostalgia. It's going to be called Xbox Throwback. All your old games will work!

hey, bring back the OG Xbox Live servers and i'm there haha

 

[PodcastFips]

Microsoft turning Xbox into it's stationary PC solution (they already have a mobile one with Surface Book) and quitting console business?

That's what I get from the opening post. I haven't read through 42 pages.

It sounds like Spencer is on Crystal or something.

 

[SunBroDave]

From the PCGamer article:

I think there are a real two factors that today differentiate what I consider PC and console gaming. One is input. We’ve said we’re going to support keyboard and mouse on console, and clearly you can plug a controller into a PC, so that’s not a trump card, but PC games have to—PC games can support keyboard and mouse, console games today usually don’t and for the most part can't. The other thing is the play space itself. I’m usually closer to my monitor, it’s a smaller screen. All these are ‘usually’s. And my TV experience on a console, I’m further away, it’s more of a communal play experience. If I take my PC and I HDMI it into my television, and I use my wireless dongle to play with controllers, is it now a console or a PC?

TL;DR Microsoft has no fucking idea what pc gaming is about.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I reckon a future console with specific upgradeable plug n play parts could work. So the device is more than a console, not quite a PC, but gives a more PC like experience.

Launch day Xbox plays games in 900/30
Xbox with GPU replaced plays games in 1080/60
Xbox with SSD upgrade loads quicker
Xbox with ram and GPU upgrades can go 4K or whatever

Just like a PC now, but without requiring knowledge on how to upgrade. It's all plug and play.

 

[AzaK]

Sony hinted at the same. I think NX will likely be built with this in mind as well based on comments from Iwata

Sure, the patent suggests it might happen but what's more likely is that Nintendo will be 2 gens behind everyone else.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Yeah, I think XBOX is going to be the Surface or Lumia of the HTPC space. Microsoft doesn't want to be the sole hardware provider for their ecosystem, they want to lead by example and give a roadmap for their many hardware partners to follow. All under Windows 10. This makes sense to me and is something I want.

I think the move is
-Every XBOX game is also a Windows 10 app, playable on any XBOX branded device and any Windows 10 PC that has the required hardware
-Make the XBOX a cable box/media center with full functionality, not the half-assed passthrough of the xbone.
-HP/Asus/Lenovo can make their own Windows 10 HTPCs with enough horsepower to run XBOX games and be a media center as well

 

[Gren]

I think that you might use the Battlefield on consoles as an example: if the gap between the first Xbox system and the latest is too big, then it won't be able to play the same modes.

Example: the player limit on the X360 (with full destruction + vehicles ) vs the same on the X1.

If the gap isn't that big, then they might just lower the settings.

Ah, ok. I wouldn't imagine that the power difference between two subsequent refreshes would be that substantial.

Of course, such a scenario would lead to parties eventually having to decide on where they draw the line & discontinue (or like in your scenario, pare back) support for an older model.

All these hypotheticals really remind me of the X1 reveal, lol.

 

[bananafactory]

I reckon a future console with specific upgradeable plug n play parts could work. So the device is more than a console, not quite a PC, but gives a more PC like experience.

Launch day Xbox plays games in 900/30
Xbox with GPU replaced plays games in 1080/60
Xbox with SSD upgrade loads quicker
Xbox with ram and GPU upgrades can go 4K or whatever

Just like a PC now, but without requiring knowledge on how to upgrade. It's all plug and play.

Honestly that sounds like a disaster. The casual audience will not go for that and anyone who cares enough about resolution and framerate to spend a bunch of money to game at 4k will play on PC. I have no idea who this would be targeting

 

[Raist]

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

A lot shook warriors in this thread. Sony will probably announce they are doing something similar in a few years. Everything will be ok guys.

I still can't believe Sony Too! is still a thing.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Honestly that sounds like a disaster. The casual audience will not go for that and anyone who cares enough about resolution and framerate to spend a bunch of money to game at 4k will play on PC. I have no idea who this would be targeting

Huh? The casual will still buy the standard Xbox and all games will play. Nothing changes.

 

[NullPointer]

So long, and thanks for all the fish shooters.

Fixed ;p

TL;DR Microsoft has no fucking idea what pc gaming is about.

Sounds like it. Is their definition something you play on your TV with a controller? I always called that "comfy couch PC", and its pretty fucking awesome when it works.

Alas, my particular setup didn't always work and drove me back into the waiting arms of the consoles.

 

[bananafactory]

Huh? The casual will still buy the standard Xbox and all games will play. Nothing changes.

And who's going to buy these higher end xboxes and upgradeable parts?

Just the confusion which is what banana is talking about. And the fact that they will have to advertise why you need to buy the revision.

How will that look to casual crowd? "I just bought this 1 year ago, your telling me there's a better one that makes my games run faster" WTF!?

This has disaster written all over it. Pretty sure Sony and Nintendo depending may wait and see how this pans out before making the decision to go the same route.

Thanks, that's more what I was trying to say.

 

[Papacheeks]

Huh? The casual will still buy the standard Xbox and all games will play. Nothing changes.

Just the confusion which is what banana is talking about. And the fact that they will have to advertise why you need to buy the revision.

How will that look to casual crowd? "I just bought this 1 year ago, your telling me there's a better one that makes my games run faster" WTF!?

This has disaster written all over it. Pretty sure Sony and Nintendo depending may wait and see how this pans out before making the decision to go the same route.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Perfect chance for Nintendo to capatalize on the gap Microsoft is creating. Sony being the only successful console manufacturer would be a disaster for consumers.

 

[Crayon]

And who's going to buy these higher end xboxes and upgradeable parts?

The ones who get into serious xbox racing for money.

 

[Kaako]

I reckon a future console with specific upgradeable plug n play parts could work. So the device is more than a console, not quite a PC, but gives a more PC like experience.

Launch day Xbox plays games in 900/30
Xbox with GPU replaced plays games in 1080/60
Xbox with SSD upgrade loads quicker
Xbox with ram and GPU upgrades can go 4K or whatever

Just like a PC now, but without requiring knowledge on how to upgrade. It's all plug and play.

I just don't see this as a viable business solution to be honest. Don't see that many people shifting towards this modular "console" experience. At that point, why not just build your own rig? You doing most of the work anyways no?

 

[notaskwid]

A lot shook warriors in this thread. Sony will probably announce they are doing something similar in a few years. Everything will be ok guys.

 

[PodcastFips]

Perfect chance for Nintendo to capatalize on the gap Microsoft is creating. Sony being the only successful console manufacturer would be a disaster for consumers.

What if we will see new players, e.g. Nvidia?

 

[Papacheeks]

Perfect chance for Nintendo to capatalize on the gap Microsoft is creating. Sony being the only successful console manufacturer would be a disaster for consumers.

Agreed, bring back Nintendo, and have Sega support the shit out of both Sony and Nintendo. Imagine a new Otagi, imagine shenmue on Nintendo next to Metroid.

Fucking got my mouth watering!!!

What if we will see new players, e.g. Nvidia?

HAHAHAHA...oh wait your serious?

 

[Montresor]

That unwarranted doom and gloom.

When Microsoft announces Xbox Two what will people here be saying?

 

[old manatee]

Agreed, bring back Nintendo, and have Sega support the shit out of both Sony and Sega. Imagine a new Otagi, imagine shenmue on Nintendo next to Metroid.

Fucking got my mouth watering!!!

It would take a miracle for Sega to support Sega.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

And who's going to buy these higher end xboxes and upgradeable parts?

Ok you misread.

There's only one Xbox. A standard box. But it's built to be easily opened (like the PS4 with its HDD) and CERTAIN internal parts are built to be removeable.

So high end users can choose to buy the Official Microsoft high end parts to replace the standard ones inside their box to play at higher res/frames. It's really not very complicated man.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I think MS is in for a rude awakening if they think Casuals will accept multiple SKUs each with different hardware. I foresee a lot of confused parents and pissed off kids come Holiday season.

That unwarranted doom and gloom.

When Microsoft announces Xbox Two what will people here be saying?

Sony Two!

 

[ZOONAMI]

Some of the best looking games every gen are console exclusives (DriveClub, the order...)

That's because you can optimize for a single closed system. You lose that with upgradable consoles.

Everybody is on even ground too, you'd lose that too.

Console gamers don't want upgrades, they want to be sure they won't have to buy another console for years and still play the latest games in good shape. They want simplicity and conveniency, that's why they chose consoles over PC.

This is PR speak, MS knows all that, they just look for a way out. Pushing PC gaming and W10 store is their next move after consoles, not upgradable consoles which would die very quickly, especially with the Xbox brand power being so low right now. They're not stupid.

Yep lol, so you think the devs if they weren't restricted to ps4 couldn't make a 980 ti run the order and drive club with better iq, more effects, and run at higher fps?

 

[notaskwid]

Perfect chance for Nintendo to capatalize on the gap Microsoft is creating. Sony being the only successful console manufacturer would be a disaster for consumers.

I really hope NX is a success. Please don't fuck up Nintendo.

 

[Nzyme32]

From the PCGamer article:

I think there are a real two factors that today differentiate what I consider PC and console gaming. One is input. We’ve said we’re going to support keyboard and mouse on console, and clearly you can plug a controller into a PC, so that’s not a trump card, but PC games have to—PC games can support keyboard and mouse, console games today usually don’t and for the most part can't. The other thing is the play space itself. I’m usually closer to my monitor, it’s a smaller screen. All these are ‘usually’s. And my TV experience on a console, I’m further away, it’s more of a communal play experience. If I take my PC and I HDMI it into my television, and I use my wireless dongle to play with controllers, is it now a console or a PC?

TL;DR Microsoft has no fucking idea what pc gaming is about.

Bingo. They aren't selling there plans well to me with these statements, but I suppose it is what they do that I will really judge them on. As of right now, primarily the UWA structure needs to change to support the capabilities typical of PC gaming. Then they need to demonstrate consistent support and reliability

 

[Kaako]

What if we will see new players, e.g. Nvidia?

Nvidia will drop their $1K console and bow out immediately the following year.

 

[MikeE21286]

I'm extremely interested to see how this experiment plays out. If it doesn't work I see MS leaving the console hardware business.

 

[Papacheeks]

It would take a miracle for Sega to support Sega.

Fixed it, i meant to say Nintendo.

 

[bananafactory]

Ok you misread.

There's only one Xbox. A standard box. But it's built to be easily opened (like the PS4 with its HDD) and CERTAIN internal parts are built to be removeable.

So high end users can choose to buy the Official Microsoft high end parts to replace the standard ones inside their box to play at higher res/frames. It's really not very complicated man.

I'm assuming they may introduce a premium Xbox a la Steam machines. Since a lot of this is just speculation anyway I'm adding my own.

Even so I still seriously question the amount of people that are going to go drop the amount they laid for the base console on a new GPU

The only thing I see certain in this situation is consumer confusion

 

[bobbyphunk]

hmm

http://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam_machines


didn't know if this link was already posted

 

[therealbigrich]

So many pages alreasy Phil must of provoked a lot of thought lol

 

[PodcastFips]

I think MS is in for a rude awakening if they think Casuals will accept multiple SKUs each with different hardware. I foresee a lot of confused parents and pissed off kids come Holiday season.

It also does not sound like a working solution to turn the ship around. PS4 has momentum, and if Microsoft decides to do these drastic changes, I seem them losing even more customers to Sony.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Ok you misread.

There's only one Xbox. A standard box. But it's built to be easily opened (like the PS4 with its HDD) and CERTAIN internal parts are built to be removeable.

So high end users can choose to buy the Official Microsoft high end parts to replace the standard ones inside their box to play at higher res/frames. It's really not very complicated man.

This is way more complicated than a new SKU releasing every 2-3 years. Swappable HDDs sure, GPUs ain't gonna happen especially because it'll be a soldered apu, not a discrete GPU.

 

[Striek]

Well, what do you mean by "every couple years"? 2 years or less would definitely be ridiculous but I don't see what's impossible with a new model every 3-4.


...

So almost but not quite a generation? That is not really the "incremental upgrade" that Phil was talking about, I believe. Your scenario would essentially have a revolving door of two console variations able to play current software at once.

Again, what is the benefit here for MS? Publishers? Developers? Consumers? This is what I really wanted to know.

The rest of your points could be summarised as making analogues to how PC works right now. I agree completely. But these would be closed off, low-end PC boxes.

Remember games aren't just developed on PCs and ported with a button press at the moment. There is tons and tons of work going in to making games scale as well as they do down to the shitty components in current consoles. Developers target them, and optimise their games for them, because they are relatively huge, static pools of consumers. Ports would suffer. The value of an Xbox to a consumer would suffer alongside. Instead of a generation of optimised games you get 1/2 to 1/3 a generation.

More work, at best the same payoff for developers, it makes no sense not to just go all-in on Windows. Keep Xbox around as your "Steambox" and try and make money of hardware sales, sure.

 

[bananafactory]

This is way more complicated than a new SKU releasing every 2-3 years. Swappable HDDs sure, GPUs ain't gonna happen especially because it'll be a soldered apu, not a discrete GPU.

Thats a good point. How would you even swap these components in the current hardware? They would basically have to release an Xbox Two and make that customizable moving forward

 

[PodcastFips]

HAHAHAHA...oh wait your serious?

It was just food for thought. I could have mentioned Apple, too.

 

[nitewulf]

what's the point, then might as well just use pcs.

 

[Bear Force One]

It also does not sound like a working solution to turn the ship around. PS4 has momentum, and if Microsoft decides to do these drastic changes, I seem them losing even more customers to Sony.

Last ditch Hail Mary play before walking away and to the Win10 storefront.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Thats a good point. How would you even swap these components in the current hardware? They would basically have to release an Xbox Two and make that customizable moving forward

That isn't going to happen. It will be like the surface line. They are going to make Xbox run any Windows game, and any Xbox game as well. Older versions of the system will just run at lower settings / resolution / fps. Eventually old versions won't be able to run the newest apps just like any other device, but this will ideally be 5+ years before that starts happening for AAA game releases.

 

[orochi91]

From the PCGamer article:


TL;DR Microsoft has no fucking idea what pc gaming is about.

Yikes.

I haven't cringed that hard in a while; MS haven't got a clue :/

 

[MogCakes]

I doubt hardly anyone would say the main reason they bought a console when they're walking out of the store would be, "the standardized experience, man. This experience is gonna be so standardized! I'm totally stoked."

It's not so much 'HELL YEAH STANDARDIZED!' so much as everyone has a common experience to look forward to with product launches. You don't see the kind of fervor for new PC hardware that you do with a new console announcement. It's very much one of console gaming's big selling points. A tiered console model will erase that.

 

[Shin-Ra]

I doubt hardly anyone would say the main reason they bought a console when they're walking out of the store would be, "the standardized experience, man. This experience is gonna be so standardized! I'm totally stoked."

Hardly anyone would say it's great their smartphone makes phone calls. It's taken for granted.

 

[vpance]

I reckon a future console with specific upgradeable plug n play parts could work. So the device is more than a console, not quite a PC, but gives a more PC like experience.

Launch day Xbox plays games in 900/30
Xbox with GPU replaced plays games in 1080/60
Xbox with SSD upgrade loads quicker
Xbox with ram and GPU upgrades can go 4K or whatever

Just like a PC now, but without requiring knowledge on how to upgrade. It's all plug and play.

What will really happen is:

Launch day Xbox plays latest games at 720p 25fps, lowest textures, no AA
Newest Xbox plays latest games at 1080p 30fps

 

[Cynn]

Another thing, Phil said they won't have clean-cut "generations" anymore and that's a pretty big point. If Microsoft does this, there won't be a break-off point where they just move to another architecture and developers suddenly stop supporting all the previous machines in favor of some new brand. It'll just be a gradual upward slope that goes on for the foreseeable future. The iPhone 6s can still probably run most apps that were made for the iPhone 1 in 2008 or 2009. Phil specifically made the comparison to PC where you can still play games from the 90's like DOOM and Quake. There might be clear numbering differences like iPhone 5 and iPhone 6, but they'll still really just be upgrades.

The funny part is, if Sony and Microsoft simply did this exact thing, but only did it every five or six years, it would be the same as a normal console generation, except they'd no longer be starting from zero upon every transition.

Yeah, when I say generation in that example it's basically the upward progress bar you mention. I can't imagine that there's going to be another huge architecture shake up for either company for a long time into the future and that's a wonderful thing! (As long as it doesn't hinder technological advancement) I want some legacy to my game purchases. I agree though, this is basically happening for both consoles. MS is just open to spec bumping a couple times a "generation". Both will carry their current software forword im sure. BC has never been easier.

You also get to be held back by the lowest common denominator. If your buddies' X1 can only support 8 player matches or cant handle certain AI or physics processing, then you wont be able to either on the more powerful X1.5 if you want to play together.

That's totally a possibility but I doubt they would do jumps that big between versions. I'd say any game that's numbered the same (BF5 as an example) would have feature parity between all console versions in a "Generation". This isn't like when BF4 hit the ten year old 360 and the new X1 at the same time. That sort of situation would be at the very tail end of when the minimum hardware required to run modern games jumps up. (I would hope) The Xbox One cycle of upgrades would probably be nothing more than just resolution bumps and home theatre / VR support. Console buyers are used to getting a new console every 5-7 years so I don't see people having trouble keeping up. This just allows guys like me to refresh every 3-4 years instead.

 

[bananafactory]

What will really happen is:

Launch day Xbox plays latest games at 720p 25fps, lowest textures, no AA
Newest Xbox plays latest games at 1080p 30fps

Bingo

 

[Dash_Riprock]

From the PCGamer article:


TL;DR Microsoft has no fucking idea what pc gaming is about.

That's almost Don Mattrick levels of stupidity.

FFS Phil:

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

It's a question that needs to be asked. What the hell is a console if it walks like a PC, talks like one, has the same innards, same business model? Why not buy a PC at that point? How is bringing that up fear mongering? You confuse me.

.... But it doesn't. FFS, you're not going to be able to assemble a your own inards and build your own system. PC. Personal. Computer. You choose every part.

The idea of incremental upgrades is not even new on consoles. Nintendo had DD64 and Expansion Pak which added more Ram. SEGA had a bunch of bad sidegigs as well.

Why the hell would that make it more like a PC?
Is it for certain that we get a full win 10 experience? I don't think so. I think they might allow it- Like you know, how crazy ken called PS3 a super computer and championed it could run a full linux OS.



Frankly, the arguments doesn't make any sense. Like at all.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Hardly anyone would say it's great their smartphone makes phone calls. It's taken for granted.

Hardly any one primarily uses their smart phone for making phone calls, so makes sense, but I'd say a good percentage of people would still mention making phone calls as one of the main reason why they have their phones.