#Miiquality | Bringing same-sex relationships to Nintendo's Tomodachi series

Tomodachi Life is a franchise whose only audience until now was the Japanese audience. Realistically, Nintendo will not start advocating an act that is definitively illegal to their primarily audience to appease another audience that potentially might not exist. It's a quandary where they invite either potential legal problems or moral problems.

If Nintendo were to continue with localizing this franchise for the West (which I doubt they would considering that this was niche to begin with), they'll probably take the middle road and just strip out any marriage or other related activities altogether.
 
I struggle with this a lot. I'm a straight male, this incident doesn't really affect me, but nothing really affects me.

I don't know how I would feel if I were gay and wanted to play Tomodachi. Would I be angry I couldn't have a relationship with another man? Would I just ignore the game completely and move on? Would I shrug my shoulders and just enjoy what the rest of the game has to offer? I don't know, and I'll never know.

However, just because I don't know how I would feel doesn't mean it doesn't matter how others feel. Others should be able to enjoy Tomodachi Life on the same level that I do, and if same-sex relationships will make their enjoyment of the game equal to mine, then Nintendo and all game developers should probably consider that.

This sums up my feelings as well. I'm straight, but I can empathize with folks who would enjoy the game a lot more if they could have same-sex relationships. Seems like a real easy concept to understand. No point in making excuses.
 
You know that social responsibility at the corporate level is only growing right? And that includes support of the LGBTQ community? That includes allowing outside audits of supply chains to curb the trade of conflict minerals? Social awareness is growing and I'd prefer to be on the right side from the start.

By the way, "That's life" "That's how it is" "That's how the world works" and all that derivative hand-waving bullshit are flimsy deflections that show your immaturity on this issue.


It's certainly an individual's responsibility to develop or support creative works that support elements of their worldview they think require wider regard, but effectively demanding that others already involved in that process change their work to integrate an outside view is utterly unreasonable. That doesn't mean don't try, but it does mean how you go about it matters greatly to your success.

The point being that communicating your concerns for mass market practices and products is not the same thing as taking part in a culture that expects it's the job of creators/producers to appeal to your particular concerns. Every voice behind creative work has their own goals and intentions built into it. Some will be interested in outside concerns, but even someone who would be interested in that information seeing a community with a tyrannical outlook in the assumption that they have power over them is likely to turn away in response. That's why the best way to act in favor of your own interests is to act as a creator, rather than an impotent censor of the work of others. More art, not less.

Also, using mainstream strong-arm tactics for the interests of a statistical minority is not a viable strategy. If anything it just manages to make the concerns of that group less relevant to creators who do care.
 
Have you seen the trailers? If Trinen was proposing to Link, I would still be on board. But then there wouldn't be any baby streetpass stuff, unless Tomadatchi Life now has a cool adoption animation.


Don't buy the game. But don't expect another if it does really poorly. Especially if Nintendo can't find a 'nice' way to represent that mommies and daddies can't have kids while the others can.

Of course they can have kids. I'm going to go ahead and assume that we witness neither intercourse, nor childbirth in this game so a simple text explanation of "the baby came from the stork" would work swimmingly.

Also, I won't be buying the game and I won't expect another one no matter how it does.
 
So the choice to be gay in a Nintendo game is a slippery slope that will just destroy all creative enterprise and we'll have to live in some kind of crowdsource dystopia.

Do you think about things you type?

You're missing my bigger point here, although you may have just read my second post.

What's the problem with just not buying the game and letting them suffer a loss from the port? I am aware I'm in the minority when I say this, but I simply don't agree with fans changing a game. I don't care if it's because of lack of social sensitivity, a bad ending, bad business model, whatever. I believe in "let them lose money."
 
Review copies were sent out awhile ago. The game has been shipped, its too late for this one - and that's that.

Should gay relationship options be supported in future titles? Absolutely! But giving the company shit when its already been released is a bit unfair.
 
So where do you draw the line? When does the developer completely lose creative control? How well received do you think a book series would be if it were merely taking into account all the wishes of the readers? What about if the writers of tv shows didn't touch season finales and just wrote them straight from Twitter?

Guess I misunderstood your post, you seem to talk about creative freedom in particular, not about protesting in general (i.e. developer lies, broken games, etc.). That's a very interesting point then, I see your concern and I definitely agree that the creator should have maximum freedom, no censorship at all.

Though here we're talking of a game where you use an in game avatar designed to depict yourself, it's different from a case where the developer/designer creates world and characters out of nothing. It's bad that some gamers can't fully be themselves in a game designed so that they could use themselves as the main characters.

If you're gonna give the players the chance to be in the game, you better give them the possibility of being fully themselves.
 
Of course they can have kids. I'm going to go ahead and assume that we witness neither intercourse, nor childbirth in this game so a simple text explanation of "the baby came from the stork" would work swimmingly.

Also, I won't be buying the game and I won't expect another one no matter how it does.

The 'female' mii gets pregnant. Then it's not a life simulator anymore. Are we really going to push old tropes?

You're missing my bigger point here, although you may have just read my second post.

What's the problem with just not buying the game and letting them suffer a loss from the port? I am aware I'm in the minority when I say this, but I simply don't agree with fans changing a game. I don't care if it's because of lack of social sensitivity, a bad ending, bad business model, whatever. I believe in "let them lose money."

Exactly. I would never want to force someone to change something. They can make me something for me if they choose to, or move along.
 
It's certainly an individual's responsibility to develop or support creative works that support elements of their worldview they think require wider regard, but effectively demanding that others already involved in that process change their work to integrate an outside view is utterly unreasonable. That doesn't mean don't try, but it does mean how you go about it matters greatly to your success.

I agree to an extent. But I will say that many people here didn't want a boycott and more that Nintendo is aware of the issue.
 
Trying to argue that Nintendo has a right to be neutral and some of us actually prefer it that way. But it seems that in "2014" you are only allowed to fall into one of two camps: Progressive activist or bigot. Neutrality shall not be tolerated because its the same as being ignorant or an excuse for hiding bigotry, right? I guess the Swiss in their historical neutrality have always been a bunch of ignorant bigots? Of course not, but according to the predominant logic here, they must be.
There's no such thing as neutrality when it comes to injustice.

If you aren't making an effort to stop it, you are supporting it by accepting the status quo.
 
Review copies were sent out awhile ago. The game has been shipped, its too late for this one - and that's that.

I'm honestly not familiar enough with the mechanic to understand how significant the change would be or what impact it would have on the title, but I do think we should note that just because the title has shipped, that doesn't mean that it's over and done with now. We live in a world where post-release patching exists.
 
So the choice to be gay in a Nintendo game is a slippery slope that will just destroy all creative enterprise and we'll have to live in some kind of crowdsource dystopia.

Do you think about things you type?

Soon we'll be demanding that games have 1080p and 60fps.
 
Review copies were sent out awhile ago. The game has been shipped, its too late for this one - and that's that.

Should gay relationship options be supported in future titles? Absolutely! But giving the company shit when its already been released is a bit unfair.

Yeah. If only there was some way to fix things or add stuff in after the fact. Almost like a patch or something...
 
I'm not completely up to speed on all the nuances of this particular conversation, but I'd first like to encourage that animosity with each other -- regardless of where your'e coming from -- isn't productive. Being the hopeless optimist that I am, I'd like to think (though I'm probably wrong) that we're all in favor of the type of equality that the movement strives for regardless of whether this particular instance registers with us.

On the one hand, I understand that being a port of a game from Japan aimed at younger audiences probably explains why it's not going to be on the cutting edge of progressive concerns. On the other, it should be easy to understand why one not feeling included in the demographics for the title based on sexual orientation will leave people disappointed or upset. If you think the game looks fun and think the business realities explain why such a change won't be implemented to this title, I think that's fine. However, it shouldn't be surprising when people who care about this kind of social change continue to press the issue.

Basically, I don't think you're a bad person and unsympathetic to progressive concerns if you don't participate in a boycott of this game. However, I do think some of the rationales provided for why this is seemingly a fool's errand are unfortunate. The idea that we're lucky to have a localization at all isn't particularly strong. And I also don't think a shrug of the shoulders and a concession that the situation is what it is constitutes very productive dialog either. That might ultimately be the reality of the situation, but it's not a compelling counterargument to people trying to promote progressive change.

Also, though I understand that NoA may not be in a position to alter the game in such a way as to adhere to what the campaign sets out to do, I think even people who understand what they're doing and why should probably agree that the response is unsatisfactory. They're going to have to do better than that.

Excellent post. I'm new here, but someday I hope to someday write such unassailable points myself rather than accidentally sounding like a troll or saying something so unintentionally offensive that it gets me banned before I can learn the art. And no, I am not being sarcastic in any way, but I am aware many here are very quick to judge and getting a post "noticed" seems to usually not end well for the poster. In many ways, threads like this feel like a shark tank unless you happen to be one of the sharks. :)
 
Guess I misunderstood your post, you seem to talk about creative freedom in particular, not about protesting in general (i.e. developer lies, broken games, etc.). That's a very interesting point then, I see your concern and I definitely agree that the creator should have maximum freedom, no censorship at all.

Though here we're talking of a game where you use an in game avatar designed to depict yourself, it's different from a case where the developer/designer creates world and characters out of nothing. It's bad that some gamers can't fully be themselves in a game designed so that they could use themselves as the main characters.

Yeah, I understand and I completely agree with the disappointment surrounding the issue. However I don't agree with the method to fix this problem. Perhaps next time they can take the localization into account, and the times.
 
I'm honestly not familiar enough with the mechanic to understand how significant the change would be or what impact it would have on the title, but I do think we should note that just because the title has shipped, that doesn't mean that it's over and done with now. We live in a world where post-release patching exists.

The mechanic seems to be that you have no control over your miis actions, so including same-sex relationships would actually make everyone bi rather than either straight or gay.
 
Review copies were sent out awhile ago. The game has been shipped, its too late for this one - and that's that.

Should gay relationship options be supported in future titles? Absolutely! But giving the company shit when its already been released is a bit unfair.

I don't know, I think it's a little more unfair that a whole community of human beings have to marginalized by a form of media. Again. And it probably won't be the last time, considering Nintendo's shrug of the shoulders on this issue.
 
You're missing my bigger point here, although you may have just read my second post.

What's the problem with just not buying the game and letting them suffer a loss from the port? I am aware I'm in the minority when I say this, but I simply don't agree with fans changing a game. I don't care if it's because of lack of social sensitivity, a bad ending, bad business model, whatever. I believe in "let them lose money."

It seems your insinuating that one should not criticize a game and instead just not buy it. How would a company no where they went wrong if they receive no feed back.
 
Nope, we don't have to do that. We can have a friend female Mii get pregnant. Or include adoption. See? Totally doable. Next?

Sounds totally doable, but the problem is the cost it would be to add this to the game versus the potential profits made. TL seems super niche and perhaps the best idea would to make your voice heard so it's implemented in the sequel, as Tye suggested.

I could be wrong, but it seems like the current game is just a lost cause.
 
The 'female' mii gets pregnant. Then it's not a life simulator anymore. Are we really going to push old tropes?

It's not a life simulator to begin with according to Nintendo:

Nintendo never intended to make any form of social commentary with the launch of Tomodachi Life. The relationship options in the game represent a playful alternate world rather than a real-life simulation. We hope that all of our fans will see that 'Tomodachi Life' was intended to be a whimsical and quirky game, and that we were absolutely not trying to provide social commentary.
 
So you're expecting Nintendo to spend money on this when the game's old and no longer in development?

I'm expecting Nintendo to do the right thing. At this point, they'd have to jump in a time machine to do so but that's their problem and it doesn't change my expectations. I expect that a life simulator will be adequately able to simulate my life. How is that unreasonable?
 
Yeah, I understand and I completely agree with the disappointment surrounding the issue. However I don't agree with the method to fix this problem. Perhaps next time they can take the localization into account, and the times.

Exactly. Frankly I wouldn't really blame it on Nintendo this time around. It's already a miracle that they localized it. Baby steps guys.

Also, as bad as it may sound, they probably didn't even think about the gay relationship stuff, it is aimed at kids (just like the 3DS in general as far as Nintendo is concerned) and it is a pretty japanese game. They probably totally glossed over the issue when deciding localization.
 
So you're expecting Nintendo to spend money on this when the game's old and no longer in development?

When localizing a game they spend money on it. Investing money to make gay marriage feasible, which I doubt would be much, is worth it if it corresponds with an increase in sales.
 
Generally speaking, the most helpful thing appears to be old people dying off and getting replaced by more liberal young ones.

Not really. Views on homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last decade. Not because of a huge demographic change, but because of activism, better awareness, stuff like gay pride parades and notable celebrities coming out.

It's always tiring to see LGBT campaigns like this one get bogged down by actively indifferent babbling.
 
Nope, we don't have to do that. We can have a friend female Mii get pregnant. Or include adoption. See? Totally doable. Next?

Those are not game mechanics. Especially for the type of game Tomadotchi Life is. It is not a real life simulator, and despite your eye rolls, adding adoption and 'friend' miis makes for really interesting conversations that shouldn't be happening because of a video game.

It's not a life simulator to begin with according to Nintendo:

I know, but it's the main argument that's being tossed around here. Which is why them calling for gay couples is confusing, as it was never meant to reflect anything other than their desired mechanics.
 
Not really. Views on homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last decade. Not because of a huge demographic change, but because of activism, better awareness, stuff like gay pride parades and notable celebrities coming out.

It's always tiring to see LGBT campaigns like this one get bogged down by actively indifferent babbling.
But mostly because the internet came along and radically increased people's exposure to things outside of their immediate vicinity.
 
Sounds totally doable, but the problem is the cost it would be to add this to the game versus the potential profits made. TL seems super niche and perhaps the best idea would to make your voice heard so it's implemented in the sequel, as Tye suggested.

I could be wrong, but it seems like the current game is just a lost cause.

Even if it's a lost cause, I'm not going to shut up about it. They're going to know that they were wrong. Change has never happened because the people who wanted it were quiet and hoped hard enough for it to happen.
 
There's so many ways to give feedback besides #changeyourgame campaigns.

That's true, there are lots of ways to give feedback. The amount of ways you can give feedback, however, does not trivialize specific social accountability movements, the forms they take or the mediums they use. #MiiQuality has hit the Associated Press. That's a big win.
 
Exactly. Frankly I wouldn't really blame it on Nintendo this time around. It's already a miracle that they localized it. Baby steps guys.

Also, as bad as it may sound, they probably didn't even think about the gay relationship stuff, it is aimed at kids (just like the 3DS in general as far as Nintendo is concerned) and it is a pretty japanese game. They probably totally glossed over the issue when deciding localization.

Right. That's honestly understandable. I think that explains why we need not consider this a malicious act. However, the notion that homosexual relationships may not have even been on their radar will also understandably not sit well with progressives on the issue.
 
Okay. You're interpreting a bias that wasn't there. Just because something is absent didn't make it exclusionary. I don't interpret games as racist because they don't immediately cater to my race. Or if a company doesn't immediately cater to my interests. To say it's exclusionary, is to interpret an intentional malicious conspiracy. Which is ridiculous. Which is why this project exist, to raise awareness not condemn people as homophobic.

Expecting a toy manufacturer to be on the bleeding edge of social progress in products sold in areas where gay marriage isn't even legal seems to be sort of ridiculous. Their audience is younger kids. Gay marriage is not legal in Japan. If this were something involving their employees/benefits/etc, I'd be much more inclined to be upset. But this is a decision that makes sense in the current state of the world. No, it doesn't match my ideal, but I recognize why it doesn't and that they aren't the real problem.

You both misunderstand my position.

I do not expect them to include same-sex marriage in Tomodachi Life. It would be untenable from a technical standpoint at this time much less a social standpoint.

What I expected was a better response. They chose to respond in a completely neutral way. They chose to label same-sex marriage as 'social commentary' instead of actually addressing the realities of what their audience is experiencing. Instead of taking a stand for same-sex marriage they've decided to couch their language very carefully so they can be socially conservative (LOL WE JUST MAKE GAMES) while still being friendly to their consumers (Don't worry, we can read your tweets!).

I expected a definitive position in which they explicitly back the idea of same-sex marriage with an explanation of why it couldn't be included in Tomodachi... now we don't even know if Nintendo supports the very idea and their lack of response is inevitably (and rightfully) going to be interpreted as implicit bigotry.
 
Those are not game mechanics. Especially for the type of game Tomadotchi Life is. It is not a real life simulator, and despite your eye rolls, adding adoption and 'friend' miis makes for really interesting conversations that shouldn't be happening because of a video game.

So your point is...that since adoption and surrogacy make for interesting conversation, they shouldn't be included in a game. That seems, odd.
 
Even if it's a lost cause, I'm not going to shut up about it. They're going to know that they were wrong. Change has never happened because the people who wanted it were quiet and hoped hard enough for it to happen.

I didn't say you should shut up about it, but using negative, accusatory language clouds your message. Constructive criticism is always more effective in making companies change.
 
I can't believe that when a minority group that actively supports a gaming company calls for representation in one of said gaming company's video games, they get called out for "playing politics" or something equally stupid. It's sad that so many people don't understand that lgbt people go through this frequently and when we speak up, it's "politics". We just have to "wait".
 
I didn't say you should shut up about it, but using negative, accusatory language clouds your message. Constructive criticism is always more effective in making companies change.

Something about being treated like a second class citizen gets me going. Weird, I know.
 
Exactly. Frankly I wouldn't really blame it on Nintendo this time around. It's already a miracle that they localized it. Baby steps guys.

Also, as bad as it may sound, they probably didn't even think about the gay relationship stuff, it is aimed at kids (just like the 3DS in general as far as Nintendo is concerned) and it is a pretty japanese game. They probably totally glossed over the issue when deciding localization.

Having played the game, it definitely is a life simulator, just one with a lot of direct control. It's also less likely to be enjoyed by kids, as most of the humor comes from being surreal.

There are a lot of things decision makers at NCL just don't consider, and NOA/NOE/NOK are too neutered to raise issues.
 
Even if it's a lost cause, I'm not going to shut up about it. They're going to know that they were wrong. Change has never happened because the people who wanted it were quiet and hoped hard enough for it to happen.

And in the case of Nintendo, positive change doesn't have the opportunity to occur while you straddle the fence in the hopes of pleasing everyone.
 
And Japan has the internet too...
And the highest proportion of old people in the world. Change takes time. There's a gigantic reason that people under 40 are much more socially liberal.

We haven't even fixed the marriage issue in the real world. To me, this means that a life simulator that keeps your from getting married is simply doing what's it's supposed to. It's simulating life. Get angry at the real problem, not the reflection.
 
Something about being treated like a second class citizen gets me going. Weird, I know.

Totally understandable, which is why I respect the efforts of people like Ghandi and MLK. It's so hard to continue positivity when you're filled with so much negative energy from being treated as inferior.
 
And the highest proportion of old people in the world. Change takes time. There's a gigantic reason that people under 40 are much more socially liberal.

We haven't even fixed the marriage issue in the real world. To me, this means that a life simulator that keeps your from getting married is simply doing what's it's supposed to. It's simulating life. Get angry at the real problem, not the reflection.

I am displeased with part of the real problem. Depictions in media, the media, and entertainment are influential and powerful in sending messages to people. I'm not sure why this is difficult for you to understand.
 
And in the case of Nintendo, positive change doesn't have the opportunity to occur while you straddle the fence in the hopes of pleasing everyone.

Exactly.

No one cares that Pokemon can't be gay, or that Mario doesn't have a transgendered friend (well, I'm sure some people do). The backlash is being caused by Nintendo's obvious lack of understanding reality the response has shown.
 
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