polyh3dron
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MMA-GAF |OT4| BangBros
- Thread starter polyh3dron
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industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
And that's even if they have every one of their no-name champions defending their belts on the main card.
I figure that the co-main will be Volkov vs. Minakov, which will hopefully be an interesting fight and not Volkov putting on a jabfest for 5 rounds.
Fornaximus
Member
Would really like to see Chandler in the UFC. One of the only Bellator guys I think could do really well. Him and Alvarez both, provided Bjorn lets Alvarez out of whatever Viacom basement he's being kept in.
can we excommunicate them?
dream
Member
Come on. QRJ vs. Tito is a more compelling fight than anything the Ultimate has put on this past year other than maybe Rousey vs. Carmouche.
Anyway, essays.
A lot has been said since the rating came out on Sunday for the eighth installment of UFC on FOX.
There have been excuses given or people using the number to say the sky is falling given it was the least watched network broadcast of MMA in history, falling barely below the levels of last years two summer shows. However, on the flip side, it was the most watched show in the Adults 18-49 age group of anything on either cable or network TV that night with a 1.1 rating (which means, to advertisers, it won the night overall, and it obviously won in the key demos, Males 18-34 and 18-49) of the more then 300 different television shows that night.
For FOX and advertisers, that means it won the night over every program on television, cable or broadcast, even though in total viewers it fell way below CBS. It was also ahead in the 18-49 demo, and doubled Males 18-34 from what FOX usually does on Saturday nights.
The show did a 1.5 rating, slightly above the two bad shows last summer. Its not a good prime time rating for FOX, but there were genuine highlights, and it was more than I was expecting out of the show. The audience of 2.38 million was the lowest for a live network MMA broadcast. The two bad ones last year, the Jim Miller vs. Nate Diaz show (2.42 million viewers) and Shogun Rua vs. Brandon Vera (2.44 million viewers) were slightly higher in overall viewers. The former was on the same night as a Mayweather fight and the latter went against the Olympics, so really, this number was the least impressive to date throwing out card comparisons. We did hear from those who were disappointed in the rating internally, feeling that a title match and Ellenberger vs. MacDonald should have been stronger than Shogun vs. Vera, which was hardly a main event, but was sold somewhat effectively based on telling a story of unachieving Vera having a shot to get a big career win, which played out well as the fight was competitive.
But going on, most expectations were that Saturdays show would be the lowest rated of the series.
It also did a 1.5 in the Male 18-34 demo, making it the highest rated sports show of the weekend on broadcast or cable in that demo and it finished in eighth place for the week in that demo out of all the shows in network prime time. The show did a 1.7 in Males 35-49. It was 28 percent higher than what Fox did between April and June in the time slot in 18-49s, and more than double the adult males as compared to usual FOX programming on Saturday nights. It was up 57% in Adults 18-49 from what baseball does. Baseball, which usually does about 3 million viewers, beats the audience overall because its so much stronger past the age of 45.
We dont have exact numbers, but relatively close is Liz Carmouche vs. Jessica Andrade doing 1.68 million viewers, Robbie Lawler vs. Bobby Voelker doing 1.77 million viewers, Rory MacDonald vs. Jake Ellenberger doing 2.30 million and Demetrious Johnson vs. John Moraga doing 3.09 million.
The prelims, from 5-8 p.m. did a 0.73 rating and 904,000 viewers, down from 0.85 and 1.06 million viewers for the 4/20 show, but that was a much stronger card. While UFC live programming on FOX averages 1.3 million viewers, that is between 8-10 p.m. Of the four sets of prelims for FOX specials that have aired on FX (previously the prelims were on Fuel), it beat the Diaz vs. Miller slightly for third. That show did a 0.77 in Males 18-34 and 0.97 in Males 35-49. An interesting note on the prelims is that the actual peak rating came during the early part of third fight, Darion Cruickshank vs. Yves Edwards. The audience grew at the start, with strong growth during Robbie Lawler vs. Trevor Smith. But the audience fell off as the Cruickshank vs. Edwards fight ended, dropped a little for Melvin Guillard vs. Mac Danzig, but then fell heavily during Danny Castillo vs. Tim Means, before picking up for Michael Chiesa vs. Jorge Masvidal.
A year ago, when the third UFC on FOX show did barely half the rating of the second, I thought it was a horrible sign. UFC had not established a history on FOX and every show had declined from the prior one, with the third show doing roughly half the audience of the second. The third show was the weakest show, and a significant drop was expected, but the audience being cut in half was a surprise. But the decline leveled off and it looks like UFCs baseline on FOX is 2.4 million viewers, but with strong numbers in the adult male demos, which is the key thing since MMA on network is all about ad sales specifically targeted to the the adult male demo.
But were now coming up on nearly two years since the one minute long Cain Velasquez vs. Junior Dos Santos heavyweight title fight, the most heavily promoted UFC bout on television in history, was viewed by more than 9 million viewers.
What has been learned is this. The first show was an aberration. UFC never planned on putting matches that could be expected to do big numbers on PPV on FOX. The FOX game was, at first, at least in theory, to do No. 1 contender fights to lead to the winner challenging for the title on PPV. Show No. 2, where Rashad Evans beat Phil Davis to set up the Jon Jones fight, and Chael Sonnen beat Michael Bisping to set up the Anderson Silva fight, was the perfect execution. Luckily for UFC, the guy who would have drawn the most money in the title fight won each time, and this show was a huge risk of two sure-fire winners on PPV. But the show did 4.7 million viewers, particularly well in the target demo, which for a FOX Saturday night was a success. The challengers winning, perhaps not spectacularly or really very exciting fights, but it was still wins before a lot of people, probably helped two major PPV shows.
Ratings are going to vary greatly based on the time of year and the card. This was a weak card marquee wise. The fact it did less than similarly weak shows years back on CBS is more because MMA wasnt on television nearly as much. In fact, Strikeforce and Elite XC on CBS averaged a 2.36 rating and 3.79 million viewers, while UFC on FOX thus far has averaged a 2.15 rating and 3.74 million viewers. The difference is so much MMA product has made all but the biggest events less special.
Its the same reason all individual shows, whether its UFC or Bellator, arent doing what they once did. Thats what is going to happen with so much product. The biggest shows on PPV are still doing well, which is the best you can hope for when the amount of television product increases so much. Thats the same as in any sport, you hope for the big games, playoffs, etc. to be as strong as ever and the weekly stuff, with the exception of the NFL, cant compare with years ago because there is so much more of it available.
As time went on, FOX was also used to promote championship matches in the lower weight classes. Benson Henderson headlined shows against Nate Diaz and Gilbert Melendez, for example. Neither match was going to do big numbers on PPV, but for television, they were strong main events.
There is a clamor and argument from some, given that in the major sports, you can see the big matches on free television, that MMA is turning itself into a niche sport by continuing to use PPV for its biggest attractions. A lot can happen in the future to change, but as things stand in 2013, UFC could not economically survive with that thinking. They arent getting enough in TV rights to run the company at the level it is at. And television doesnt pay enough for the top drawing fighters to get anywhere near the kind of purse they are used to. With the first Velasquez vs. Dos Santos, UFC viewed that fight as a lost leader to establish the relationship. Now, if UFC is able to get its television package rights fees when the current deal is out moved from $100 million to $300 million, the economics change greatly. But if that can even happen, its probably not until the current contract expires in 2017. Decision making at that time will depend on the economics years from now, which nobody can predict. Also, a major point is missed. Being on PPV makes things more important and for a big show, encourages a different type of viewership. UFC did a study several years back and found that the average home watching a PPV had eight viewers. I have no data to contradict that but it on the surface sounded high. Still, another completely unscientific study on our web site found the number as five viewers on average per home. Im guessing as a general rule with UFC not as hot, the number would be smaller. But at five viewers, the biggest fights were drawing as many viewers as all but the biggest television shows and it is likely more people saw UFC 100 than any free show in history except the one minute of Velasquez vs. Dos Santos.
Granted, no matter what the number is, more people would see GSP vs. Nick Diaz on free TV than PPV, but the importance to them would be different. If something has to be paid for and friends gather, what they see becomes a bigger deal. WWE is the perfect example. The total audience for a WWE PPV show is minuscule compared to Raw the next night. But something big that happens on PPV resonates with the audience, and is far more remembered over time, than anything on Raw. Similarly, at the end of the year, in either MMA or U.S. pro wrestling match of the year awards, the PPV bouts always do better than the free TV bouts even though far more people see the latter.
The idea should be something along the lines of any match that can do a certain number, say 350,000 buys, is better to do on PPV in 2013.
In 2013, UFC, in what I call a lucky year because they havent gotten killed with injuries that eliminate major matches as in the prior two years, if the current lineups hold up (and odds are they wont), will have had nine shows headlined by matches that fall into that category. They have 13 PPV slots, so they dont even have enough to headline every PPV. Barring injuries ruining the shows coming up, this will be the companys best year on PPV since 2010 and the Brock Lesnar era.
What has also become the case, now more than ever, as shown by the huge swings in numbers both for PPV and television ratings, is the public picks and chooses. This is the natural evolution with the promoting of so many events per year. The result is the UFC brand itself means far less than the few big name fighters when it comes to business, just as has been the case in boxing. In fact, you can study boxing and probably see UFCs future, although boxing itself has copied UFC by working to provide more loaded shows. You can put on a PPV with well known names on top and do 135,000 to 150,000 buys, like Dan Henderson vs. Rashad Evans did in June. But the major events are doing as well as ever. No, people arent doing Brock Lesnar numbers on a regular basis because there is no Brock Lesnar on the roster. But GSP did his biggest numbers of his career for a show he headlined on his own in his last fight. Anderson Silva didnt do his career best numbers with Chris Weidman, but he did his career best numbers for a fight with someone who was not established to the public as a star as far as a singular main event. His only bigger numbers were the two Chael Sonnen fights, because Sonnen was so great at building interest, a Forrest Griffin fight (which had a B.J. Penn title match as the advertised main event) when Griffin was one of the most popular and best known fighters, and a Vitor Belfort fight, again against someone who was a well known fighter who was a great striker.
The same thing with television. This FOX show was down 36 percent in viewership and 32 percent in ratings from the last one. The show was held in April, so the NFL promotion aspect isnt a factor. But the 4/20 show was a great television card. While Benson Henderson and Gilbert Melendez probably couldnt draw 350,000 buys on pay-per-view, even with that undercard, it was a great show for television.
Demetrious Johnson vs. John Moraga shows that just having a title match isnt going to do well when its a challenger nobody knows, and the undercard doesnt have any really big names. Johnson was coming off a win on FOX. Rory MacDonald was coming off what appeared to be a star making performance, between the build-up and then beating B.J. Penn. A key point of this rating is that MacDonald seemed like a big deal in December, then beat Penn handily on TV before millions of viewers. But he didnt gain as much from it as many would have anticipated.
UFC numbers will be significantly bigger during football season. When FOX has that huge audience every Sunday of adult men, the prime UFC audience, to promote the day and matches to, the shows are a success. But the April show was proof football season is a big deal, since it didnt do as well as weaker December or January shows. But it also showed that it doesnt matter if you have a show people want to see, UFC can draw.
Like everything in television, success is not determined by hardcore fans, but the ability to draw in average sports fans. You need names that the audience is aware of. The two shows in December and January, which were both ratings successes, featured Penn and Rampage Jackson, names who have drawn big on PPV in the past. Those type of fighters are valuable, but the roster isnt filled with them. An Evans or Chael Sonnen would have helped this show, but Sonnen vs. Shogun Rua was needed for Boston. Thats a product of having so many shows in a short period of time, that there are so many masters to serve that you get a show like this on FOX.
The live attendance told the same tale. Even with Johnson, the champion headlining, being from near Seattle, the locals who were there cheered him like crazy. But there werent a ton of them. The first time UFC went to Seattles Key Arena, it drew a sellout 14,212 fans. The second show, on Dec. 8, drew another sellout of 14,412. The first was for a Spike Fight Night and second was for an NBC show, so this was a great UFC market.
Like the ratings, this didnt do close to that, with 8,967 fans, 6,619 paid and a gate of $700,081. The paid was 6,500 more than a week out which tells you just how little late interest there was in the market, and how they didnt even do heavily discounted last week tickets or a significant amount of papering as they often do if the advance is weak. They were giving away tickets at some late autograph sessions but those numbers indicate there was no heavy papering done.
Its not necessarily that flyweights cant headline. Johnson headlined a January show on FOX that did well, but he had Jackson for support. Moraga became the first fighter in UFC history to go from being in the opening match on his previous show to the main event. That, in a nutshell, was part of the problem. People didnt know him. All of his prior UFC fights aired on Facebook to audiences of less than 50,000 worldwide, meaning less than that in the U.S. It doesnt even compare with the lowest rated Fuel shows.
Even though MacDonald and Ellenberger were legitimate welterweight top five fighters and were really the main event to most fans, people obviously didnt see it as a strong main event match. The originally scheduled Liz Carmouche vs. Miesha Tate womens fight may have helped the ratings. But with Tate pulled to coach Ultimate Fighter, Carmouche faced Jessica Andrade, a Brazilian who had never fought in UFC.
As far as the show went, it was a mixed bag. The small amount of fans there for the entire show loved the two Facebook fights with bantamweight Yaotzin Meza tapping out local fighter John Albert, and Justin Salas in a wild brawl, apparently ending the 16-year career of Aaron Riley. Riley posted on Twitter after the fight that he was retiring.
FX had a strong second fight in Ed Hermans controversial win over Trevor Smith via decision; which got the best fight bonus. Jorge Masvidals submission with one second left in the second round over Michael Chiesa was another fight the crowd loved. Chiesa, partially because he was from Washington, was the second most popular fighter on the show, behind only Johnson.
But Germaine de Randamie vs. Julie Kedzie spent too much time in the clinch to entertain the audience. Darion Cruickshank vs. Yves Edwards looked good on paper but neither ever really turned it on.
As far as the FOX fights went, the story was MacDonald vs. Ellenberger. Dana White minced no words when it was over.
I wasnt too excited about the fight, he said. When you get these fights where guys talk s***, the fights always suck. For Ellenberger to say hes (MacDonald) not top ten and then not go out and prove it, Ellenberger did nothing, his punch stats were like zero.
He shot in the second round. He literally did nothing. I think Rory didnt do anything to finish or put a stamp on it. Thats why people booed and thats why people were not too happy. It was the shows most highly anticipated fight. The winner could have easily been plugged into a championship fight.
If the fight that had the most interest delivered, the FOX show would have been good. But it didnt, and even with the strong showing of Johnson, the show felt lackluster when it was over.
Johnson ended the night with a unique distinction. Hes the only champion on the roster to have beaten the current top four contenders in his class in current UFC ratings, Joseph Benavidez, John Dodson, Ian McCall and now Moraga.
That stat, combined with the way Johnson controlled the entire fight against Moraga, he came across like someone who has no competition in his class.
But in reality, he was rocked several times by Dodson in his last fight. He also had a draw in his first match with Ian McCall, that he could easily have lost.
Benavidez, considered by almost everyone as the current top contender, faces Jussier Formiga on 9/4 in Belo Horizonte, Brazil. That will likely decide the next opponent for Johnson. But if Johnson beats Benavidez a second time, he will legitimately have cleaned out a division that lacks depth.
Johnson himself threw out a challenge to do a superfight against the bantamweight champion.
The controversy after the fight was if MacDonald (15-1) was partially responsible for stinking up the joint, or if he executed a winning game plan, as he claimed. There are realities about winning vs. become a star, and he came out of this far less of a star than he came in.
He won the fight, but he really didnt help himself in the process. Most fans arent clamoring to see him fight again any time soon. Nor are they now waiting for him to get a title shot.
But the lasting negative impression will be mostly forgotten if he puts on an exciting fight next time out.
While MacDonalds work in winning the fight can be defended due to the result, for Jake Ellenberger, there are nothing but questions.
Ellenberger, sat there and said almost nothing at the press conference moments after White insulted his performance. He gave no real explanation past that he wasnt himself.
White surmised freezing under the pressure. Its a real mystery. Ellenberger is no neophyte. It was his 36th pro fight, and hes main evented twice on prior UFC shows. He beat Diego Sanchez in one of the wildest fights in recent years, and has knocked out Nate Marquardt and Jake Shields.
Ellenberger is going to have a lot of second guessing in his future. His offensive output was so lacking that he not just lost, but may have made himself a risk to be put on a main card. And it wasnt as if he was overwhelmed, as with a little more aggression, he could have won the fight.
The closest thing to a welterweight star made was Robbie Lawler. The 12-year journeyman fought his first ten fights as a welterweight, before moving up to middleweight at the age of 22.
Now 31, hes moved back down, and won his last two fights via impressive knockouts over Josh Koscheck and Bobby Voelker.
Lawler came in as a usually entertaining fighter with a big knockout punch. But he was not looked on as a title contender, particularly considering how much depth the division has.
He appeared to be more going down the path of Chris Lytle, who had a long UFC career, picked up lots of bonuses, made a name for himself, but was never in a serious title hunt.
But the nature of this win on a night when two higher ranked contenders faltered, and its Lawler who people will likely be more excited about seeing in big fights.
An interesting note on the show regarded timing. A lot of fights went to decision, and with the exception of a very brief interview with Johnson after the main event, no interviews were done. This hurt, as without interviews, some of the wins, most notably Lawler and Carmouches, didnt come across as big as they could have with more time and emphasis on the finish.
But timing was an issue on FX and even more so on FOX. Its one thing for the local news to go on late because a sports event that does good ratings goes long. Its another when its a show that wasnt expected to do as well.
Anyway, essays.
A lot has been said since the rating came out on Sunday for the eighth installment of UFC on FOX.
There have been excuses given or people using the number to say the sky is falling given it was the least watched network broadcast of MMA in history, falling barely below the levels of last years two summer shows. However, on the flip side, it was the most watched show in the Adults 18-49 age group of anything on either cable or network TV that night with a 1.1 rating (which means, to advertisers, it won the night overall, and it obviously won in the key demos, Males 18-34 and 18-49) of the more then 300 different television shows that night.
For FOX and advertisers, that means it won the night over every program on television, cable or broadcast, even though in total viewers it fell way below CBS. It was also ahead in the 18-49 demo, and doubled Males 18-34 from what FOX usually does on Saturday nights.
The show did a 1.5 rating, slightly above the two bad shows last summer. Its not a good prime time rating for FOX, but there were genuine highlights, and it was more than I was expecting out of the show. The audience of 2.38 million was the lowest for a live network MMA broadcast. The two bad ones last year, the Jim Miller vs. Nate Diaz show (2.42 million viewers) and Shogun Rua vs. Brandon Vera (2.44 million viewers) were slightly higher in overall viewers. The former was on the same night as a Mayweather fight and the latter went against the Olympics, so really, this number was the least impressive to date throwing out card comparisons. We did hear from those who were disappointed in the rating internally, feeling that a title match and Ellenberger vs. MacDonald should have been stronger than Shogun vs. Vera, which was hardly a main event, but was sold somewhat effectively based on telling a story of unachieving Vera having a shot to get a big career win, which played out well as the fight was competitive.
But going on, most expectations were that Saturdays show would be the lowest rated of the series.
It also did a 1.5 in the Male 18-34 demo, making it the highest rated sports show of the weekend on broadcast or cable in that demo and it finished in eighth place for the week in that demo out of all the shows in network prime time. The show did a 1.7 in Males 35-49. It was 28 percent higher than what Fox did between April and June in the time slot in 18-49s, and more than double the adult males as compared to usual FOX programming on Saturday nights. It was up 57% in Adults 18-49 from what baseball does. Baseball, which usually does about 3 million viewers, beats the audience overall because its so much stronger past the age of 45.
We dont have exact numbers, but relatively close is Liz Carmouche vs. Jessica Andrade doing 1.68 million viewers, Robbie Lawler vs. Bobby Voelker doing 1.77 million viewers, Rory MacDonald vs. Jake Ellenberger doing 2.30 million and Demetrious Johnson vs. John Moraga doing 3.09 million.
The prelims, from 5-8 p.m. did a 0.73 rating and 904,000 viewers, down from 0.85 and 1.06 million viewers for the 4/20 show, but that was a much stronger card. While UFC live programming on FOX averages 1.3 million viewers, that is between 8-10 p.m. Of the four sets of prelims for FOX specials that have aired on FX (previously the prelims were on Fuel), it beat the Diaz vs. Miller slightly for third. That show did a 0.77 in Males 18-34 and 0.97 in Males 35-49. An interesting note on the prelims is that the actual peak rating came during the early part of third fight, Darion Cruickshank vs. Yves Edwards. The audience grew at the start, with strong growth during Robbie Lawler vs. Trevor Smith. But the audience fell off as the Cruickshank vs. Edwards fight ended, dropped a little for Melvin Guillard vs. Mac Danzig, but then fell heavily during Danny Castillo vs. Tim Means, before picking up for Michael Chiesa vs. Jorge Masvidal.
A year ago, when the third UFC on FOX show did barely half the rating of the second, I thought it was a horrible sign. UFC had not established a history on FOX and every show had declined from the prior one, with the third show doing roughly half the audience of the second. The third show was the weakest show, and a significant drop was expected, but the audience being cut in half was a surprise. But the decline leveled off and it looks like UFCs baseline on FOX is 2.4 million viewers, but with strong numbers in the adult male demos, which is the key thing since MMA on network is all about ad sales specifically targeted to the the adult male demo.
But were now coming up on nearly two years since the one minute long Cain Velasquez vs. Junior Dos Santos heavyweight title fight, the most heavily promoted UFC bout on television in history, was viewed by more than 9 million viewers.
What has been learned is this. The first show was an aberration. UFC never planned on putting matches that could be expected to do big numbers on PPV on FOX. The FOX game was, at first, at least in theory, to do No. 1 contender fights to lead to the winner challenging for the title on PPV. Show No. 2, where Rashad Evans beat Phil Davis to set up the Jon Jones fight, and Chael Sonnen beat Michael Bisping to set up the Anderson Silva fight, was the perfect execution. Luckily for UFC, the guy who would have drawn the most money in the title fight won each time, and this show was a huge risk of two sure-fire winners on PPV. But the show did 4.7 million viewers, particularly well in the target demo, which for a FOX Saturday night was a success. The challengers winning, perhaps not spectacularly or really very exciting fights, but it was still wins before a lot of people, probably helped two major PPV shows.
Ratings are going to vary greatly based on the time of year and the card. This was a weak card marquee wise. The fact it did less than similarly weak shows years back on CBS is more because MMA wasnt on television nearly as much. In fact, Strikeforce and Elite XC on CBS averaged a 2.36 rating and 3.79 million viewers, while UFC on FOX thus far has averaged a 2.15 rating and 3.74 million viewers. The difference is so much MMA product has made all but the biggest events less special.
Its the same reason all individual shows, whether its UFC or Bellator, arent doing what they once did. Thats what is going to happen with so much product. The biggest shows on PPV are still doing well, which is the best you can hope for when the amount of television product increases so much. Thats the same as in any sport, you hope for the big games, playoffs, etc. to be as strong as ever and the weekly stuff, with the exception of the NFL, cant compare with years ago because there is so much more of it available.
As time went on, FOX was also used to promote championship matches in the lower weight classes. Benson Henderson headlined shows against Nate Diaz and Gilbert Melendez, for example. Neither match was going to do big numbers on PPV, but for television, they were strong main events.
There is a clamor and argument from some, given that in the major sports, you can see the big matches on free television, that MMA is turning itself into a niche sport by continuing to use PPV for its biggest attractions. A lot can happen in the future to change, but as things stand in 2013, UFC could not economically survive with that thinking. They arent getting enough in TV rights to run the company at the level it is at. And television doesnt pay enough for the top drawing fighters to get anywhere near the kind of purse they are used to. With the first Velasquez vs. Dos Santos, UFC viewed that fight as a lost leader to establish the relationship. Now, if UFC is able to get its television package rights fees when the current deal is out moved from $100 million to $300 million, the economics change greatly. But if that can even happen, its probably not until the current contract expires in 2017. Decision making at that time will depend on the economics years from now, which nobody can predict. Also, a major point is missed. Being on PPV makes things more important and for a big show, encourages a different type of viewership. UFC did a study several years back and found that the average home watching a PPV had eight viewers. I have no data to contradict that but it on the surface sounded high. Still, another completely unscientific study on our web site found the number as five viewers on average per home. Im guessing as a general rule with UFC not as hot, the number would be smaller. But at five viewers, the biggest fights were drawing as many viewers as all but the biggest television shows and it is likely more people saw UFC 100 than any free show in history except the one minute of Velasquez vs. Dos Santos.
Granted, no matter what the number is, more people would see GSP vs. Nick Diaz on free TV than PPV, but the importance to them would be different. If something has to be paid for and friends gather, what they see becomes a bigger deal. WWE is the perfect example. The total audience for a WWE PPV show is minuscule compared to Raw the next night. But something big that happens on PPV resonates with the audience, and is far more remembered over time, than anything on Raw. Similarly, at the end of the year, in either MMA or U.S. pro wrestling match of the year awards, the PPV bouts always do better than the free TV bouts even though far more people see the latter.
The idea should be something along the lines of any match that can do a certain number, say 350,000 buys, is better to do on PPV in 2013.
In 2013, UFC, in what I call a lucky year because they havent gotten killed with injuries that eliminate major matches as in the prior two years, if the current lineups hold up (and odds are they wont), will have had nine shows headlined by matches that fall into that category. They have 13 PPV slots, so they dont even have enough to headline every PPV. Barring injuries ruining the shows coming up, this will be the companys best year on PPV since 2010 and the Brock Lesnar era.
What has also become the case, now more than ever, as shown by the huge swings in numbers both for PPV and television ratings, is the public picks and chooses. This is the natural evolution with the promoting of so many events per year. The result is the UFC brand itself means far less than the few big name fighters when it comes to business, just as has been the case in boxing. In fact, you can study boxing and probably see UFCs future, although boxing itself has copied UFC by working to provide more loaded shows. You can put on a PPV with well known names on top and do 135,000 to 150,000 buys, like Dan Henderson vs. Rashad Evans did in June. But the major events are doing as well as ever. No, people arent doing Brock Lesnar numbers on a regular basis because there is no Brock Lesnar on the roster. But GSP did his biggest numbers of his career for a show he headlined on his own in his last fight. Anderson Silva didnt do his career best numbers with Chris Weidman, but he did his career best numbers for a fight with someone who was not established to the public as a star as far as a singular main event. His only bigger numbers were the two Chael Sonnen fights, because Sonnen was so great at building interest, a Forrest Griffin fight (which had a B.J. Penn title match as the advertised main event) when Griffin was one of the most popular and best known fighters, and a Vitor Belfort fight, again against someone who was a well known fighter who was a great striker.
The same thing with television. This FOX show was down 36 percent in viewership and 32 percent in ratings from the last one. The show was held in April, so the NFL promotion aspect isnt a factor. But the 4/20 show was a great television card. While Benson Henderson and Gilbert Melendez probably couldnt draw 350,000 buys on pay-per-view, even with that undercard, it was a great show for television.
Demetrious Johnson vs. John Moraga shows that just having a title match isnt going to do well when its a challenger nobody knows, and the undercard doesnt have any really big names. Johnson was coming off a win on FOX. Rory MacDonald was coming off what appeared to be a star making performance, between the build-up and then beating B.J. Penn. A key point of this rating is that MacDonald seemed like a big deal in December, then beat Penn handily on TV before millions of viewers. But he didnt gain as much from it as many would have anticipated.
UFC numbers will be significantly bigger during football season. When FOX has that huge audience every Sunday of adult men, the prime UFC audience, to promote the day and matches to, the shows are a success. But the April show was proof football season is a big deal, since it didnt do as well as weaker December or January shows. But it also showed that it doesnt matter if you have a show people want to see, UFC can draw.
Like everything in television, success is not determined by hardcore fans, but the ability to draw in average sports fans. You need names that the audience is aware of. The two shows in December and January, which were both ratings successes, featured Penn and Rampage Jackson, names who have drawn big on PPV in the past. Those type of fighters are valuable, but the roster isnt filled with them. An Evans or Chael Sonnen would have helped this show, but Sonnen vs. Shogun Rua was needed for Boston. Thats a product of having so many shows in a short period of time, that there are so many masters to serve that you get a show like this on FOX.
The live attendance told the same tale. Even with Johnson, the champion headlining, being from near Seattle, the locals who were there cheered him like crazy. But there werent a ton of them. The first time UFC went to Seattles Key Arena, it drew a sellout 14,212 fans. The second show, on Dec. 8, drew another sellout of 14,412. The first was for a Spike Fight Night and second was for an NBC show, so this was a great UFC market.
Like the ratings, this didnt do close to that, with 8,967 fans, 6,619 paid and a gate of $700,081. The paid was 6,500 more than a week out which tells you just how little late interest there was in the market, and how they didnt even do heavily discounted last week tickets or a significant amount of papering as they often do if the advance is weak. They were giving away tickets at some late autograph sessions but those numbers indicate there was no heavy papering done.
Its not necessarily that flyweights cant headline. Johnson headlined a January show on FOX that did well, but he had Jackson for support. Moraga became the first fighter in UFC history to go from being in the opening match on his previous show to the main event. That, in a nutshell, was part of the problem. People didnt know him. All of his prior UFC fights aired on Facebook to audiences of less than 50,000 worldwide, meaning less than that in the U.S. It doesnt even compare with the lowest rated Fuel shows.
Even though MacDonald and Ellenberger were legitimate welterweight top five fighters and were really the main event to most fans, people obviously didnt see it as a strong main event match. The originally scheduled Liz Carmouche vs. Miesha Tate womens fight may have helped the ratings. But with Tate pulled to coach Ultimate Fighter, Carmouche faced Jessica Andrade, a Brazilian who had never fought in UFC.
As far as the show went, it was a mixed bag. The small amount of fans there for the entire show loved the two Facebook fights with bantamweight Yaotzin Meza tapping out local fighter John Albert, and Justin Salas in a wild brawl, apparently ending the 16-year career of Aaron Riley. Riley posted on Twitter after the fight that he was retiring.
FX had a strong second fight in Ed Hermans controversial win over Trevor Smith via decision; which got the best fight bonus. Jorge Masvidals submission with one second left in the second round over Michael Chiesa was another fight the crowd loved. Chiesa, partially because he was from Washington, was the second most popular fighter on the show, behind only Johnson.
But Germaine de Randamie vs. Julie Kedzie spent too much time in the clinch to entertain the audience. Darion Cruickshank vs. Yves Edwards looked good on paper but neither ever really turned it on.
As far as the FOX fights went, the story was MacDonald vs. Ellenberger. Dana White minced no words when it was over.
I wasnt too excited about the fight, he said. When you get these fights where guys talk s***, the fights always suck. For Ellenberger to say hes (MacDonald) not top ten and then not go out and prove it, Ellenberger did nothing, his punch stats were like zero.
He shot in the second round. He literally did nothing. I think Rory didnt do anything to finish or put a stamp on it. Thats why people booed and thats why people were not too happy. It was the shows most highly anticipated fight. The winner could have easily been plugged into a championship fight.
If the fight that had the most interest delivered, the FOX show would have been good. But it didnt, and even with the strong showing of Johnson, the show felt lackluster when it was over.
Johnson ended the night with a unique distinction. Hes the only champion on the roster to have beaten the current top four contenders in his class in current UFC ratings, Joseph Benavidez, John Dodson, Ian McCall and now Moraga.
That stat, combined with the way Johnson controlled the entire fight against Moraga, he came across like someone who has no competition in his class.
But in reality, he was rocked several times by Dodson in his last fight. He also had a draw in his first match with Ian McCall, that he could easily have lost.
Benavidez, considered by almost everyone as the current top contender, faces Jussier Formiga on 9/4 in Belo Horizonte, Brazil. That will likely decide the next opponent for Johnson. But if Johnson beats Benavidez a second time, he will legitimately have cleaned out a division that lacks depth.
Johnson himself threw out a challenge to do a superfight against the bantamweight champion.
The controversy after the fight was if MacDonald (15-1) was partially responsible for stinking up the joint, or if he executed a winning game plan, as he claimed. There are realities about winning vs. become a star, and he came out of this far less of a star than he came in.
He won the fight, but he really didnt help himself in the process. Most fans arent clamoring to see him fight again any time soon. Nor are they now waiting for him to get a title shot.
But the lasting negative impression will be mostly forgotten if he puts on an exciting fight next time out.
While MacDonalds work in winning the fight can be defended due to the result, for Jake Ellenberger, there are nothing but questions.
Ellenberger, sat there and said almost nothing at the press conference moments after White insulted his performance. He gave no real explanation past that he wasnt himself.
White surmised freezing under the pressure. Its a real mystery. Ellenberger is no neophyte. It was his 36th pro fight, and hes main evented twice on prior UFC shows. He beat Diego Sanchez in one of the wildest fights in recent years, and has knocked out Nate Marquardt and Jake Shields.
Ellenberger is going to have a lot of second guessing in his future. His offensive output was so lacking that he not just lost, but may have made himself a risk to be put on a main card. And it wasnt as if he was overwhelmed, as with a little more aggression, he could have won the fight.
The closest thing to a welterweight star made was Robbie Lawler. The 12-year journeyman fought his first ten fights as a welterweight, before moving up to middleweight at the age of 22.
Now 31, hes moved back down, and won his last two fights via impressive knockouts over Josh Koscheck and Bobby Voelker.
Lawler came in as a usually entertaining fighter with a big knockout punch. But he was not looked on as a title contender, particularly considering how much depth the division has.
He appeared to be more going down the path of Chris Lytle, who had a long UFC career, picked up lots of bonuses, made a name for himself, but was never in a serious title hunt.
But the nature of this win on a night when two higher ranked contenders faltered, and its Lawler who people will likely be more excited about seeing in big fights.
An interesting note on the show regarded timing. A lot of fights went to decision, and with the exception of a very brief interview with Johnson after the main event, no interviews were done. This hurt, as without interviews, some of the wins, most notably Lawler and Carmouches, didnt come across as big as they could have with more time and emphasis on the finish.
But timing was an issue on FX and even more so on FOX. Its one thing for the local news to go on late because a sports event that does good ratings goes long. Its another when its a show that wasnt expected to do as well.
dream
Member
ESPNs Outside the Lines show reported that Porter Fischer, who worked with Tony Bosch at Biogenesis, the Florida-based clinic that has made headlines of because of baseball stars Ryan Braun and Alex Rodriguez, said their client list of those getting PEDs included MMA fighters.
Fischer said there were athletes from the NBA, NCAA, pro boxing, pro tennis and MMA that were clients. No names were mentioned at this point and its interesting that in this case there was no mention of pro wrestlers, that seemed to crop up in nearly every big-time sports drug doctor story of the past decade.
It will be interesting to see if UFC goes after the names with the vigor that baseball did, and if and how they take any action against them.
Dana White was asked a few times over the weekend about the story, even to the point of what exactly they were using. White, spoke as he always does about government testing. In some big money fights in boxing, and most recently with Georges St-Pierre and Johny Hendricks, MMA fighters have volunteered to go through VADA testing, which is far more extensive testing than the usual athletic commission testing. Exactly what can and cant be beat in testing is a subject that becomes really political these days.
Victor Conte, one of the more outspoken players in the game, particularly when it comes to MMA, writes and talks about it all the time. He helps with the diet and supplementation of a number of MMA fighters, particularly in Northern California. In his previous life, he was one of the guys that the top athletes in the country, heavy hitters like Barry Bonds and Marion Jones, went to. Not a doctor, his background was actually in music with the famed Tower of Power, band, Conte garnered celebrity status for pushing supplementation while actually devising drug testing programs for many of the most famous athletes in the country, who were using PEDs heavily, and never getting caught, even while facing the most extensive testing programs.
Jones was regularly tested, never failed, and it wasnt until Contes records were raided that she was caught, and ended up spending time in jail because she continued to lie, even under oath.
Today, Conte gives the impression of a guy who has flipped sides. While not a part of VADA, who speaks for them all the time, and is very critical in particular about the athletic commission testing of boxers and MMA fighters.
The subject is one that has been beaten to death because of naivete, or worse. Dr. Joseph Maroon, who heads the WWEs medical board has claimed that WWE is now clean of PEDs due to its extensive testing. Yet, how many people believe that, let alone those who are close to the situation. WWE doesnt test for GH, and even if they did, the GH tests that are talked about as the new state of the art seem to catch very few, and there is widespread skepticism as to how effective they really are.
Its a subject that after decades, it appears the public has thrown up its hands at. Very public cases like Lance Armstrong have told the public that no matter how much you test, the star athletes dont seem to fail. Instead, whether its Armstrong and Ryan Braun, they lie, to the end. The belief is that at the top level in many sports, they are necessary and the big fish that get caught are either unlucky, or victims of being so good that they become targets.
Its simply impossible to believe that if GH, which tightens up the body and hardens the muscle, isnt being tested for, that nobody in WWE is using it. At the same time, whether its WWE or the Olympics, you can only test to the best of your ability. WWE testing is more frequent than the athletic commission testing for fighters, but there is always going to be skepticism when the company has no oversight from the outside when it comes to results and punishment.
There is also the question regarding leading by example. Exactly what are performers going to think when they are told their leaders are against PEDs when they have the belief those same said leaders preaching against were longtime users, and even believe that longtime usage continues?
Weve already seen, with the Signature Pharmacy case from 2007, that WWE will suspend wrestlers who pass their tests but show up on distribution lists (well, anyone not named Randy Orton). That case study alone tells you all you need to know about how fool-proof testing was when a significant percentage (12 of 67 at the time) of the active talent roster was busted by just one place publicly and most on the list had never failed a drug test. Every name that came out on the list was suspended except for one or two and given a strike. Granted, WWE suspensions for 30 days are hardly equivalent to most sports, where the suspensions can be anywhere from two years (Olympic sports), nine months to a year (UFC), or one third of the season (baseball), but the WWE suspensions arent that far off from the NFL (four games).
While some were getting GH, which the WWE testing isnt going to catch, a drug very effective in ripping physiques and leaning people out, for both men and women (who when it comes to their bodies are actually held to an even higher standard than the men as a male equivalent of Sara Del Rey makes it in WWE as something more than a trainer and a female version doesnt)), simple logic would say there is going to be at minimal some usage. This isnt pointing a finger that WWE is doing it wrong because all sports have these issues.
With UFC, with most testing being on the day of the show (some main eventers in Nevada will be tested during camp, as will fighters who ask for testosterone use exemptions), there are timing windows that can be used that in sports with frequent unannounced testing would be harder. For Bellator, with so many shows at Native American casinos, the testing is not even done on every show as UFC does.
I keep thinking its inevitable that UFC will eventually in-house do at least a WWE level of testing. The problem is that they have athletes all over the world and except at their annual fighter summit, they are never together, unlike WWE, where most of the roster is together several days a week. But it hasnt happened yet, and even with that style, if UFC is testing its own athletes, there is an issue because they are promoters. Making a deal with VADA or USADA and giving them not only full power to do unannounced tests but come up with mandatory suspensions, whether its nine months first time, 18 months the second, or whatever is deemed fair, would be an improvement over what we have now. But there is extensive politics in all that as well.
White has said how he believes PED use in a combat sport like MMA or boxing is worse than in baseball. In baseball, while it may turn long fly balls caught deep into home runs, add a few miles per hour to a fastball, and pervert longstanding records, in MMA and boxing, and quite frankly, in football as well, there is contact which can lead to significant injuries. Yet, baseball has more frequent and more comprehensive testing. White publicly clings to the story that MMA and boxing are tested by the government, and thus its a higher standard, whenever the subject comes up.
The one thing about baseball that has changed is the mentality, in the sense that before, there was a feeling that use was plentiful and while technically cheating, it was, not to the public but within the game, accepted cheating like it is in a lot of sports like bicycle racing, track, like it has always been in pro wrestling and really in MMA. Still, the reaction of players to the names busted was not one of sympathy, like track athletes, weightlifters and pro wrestlers used to have when names were busted. Players seemed happy this was happening and felt the cheaters were diminishing in numbers. Still, you always have to be skeptical because PEDs from day one have taught athletes to be dishonest.
There are times when athletes, fighters, or whoever, decry usage and say they are glad the guilty got caught, do you believe them or do you believe they are saying it because thats what they are supposed to say, or they truly mean it. One would think the clean athletes mean it. And those who arent, who say the same thing and later get exposed, well, thats part of athletes being taught to be dishonest on this subject and if they are unlucky, it comes back to bite them.
White, when the subject came up, was interested in what Biogenesis was using for the athletes that was beating tests. He seemed to have a different standard between steroids and testosterone. When somebody brought up testosterone cream, he kind of passed that off as harmless, that women sometimes use it, and didnt seem to have strong feelings over use of testosterone, seemingly differentiating it from steroids. He did say, more than once, that if UFC fighters names came out, it wouldnt be good. He didnt outright make a statement on what he would do if a name or names became public. Really, given the little information out on who and what is involved, and its not even a lock anyone from UFC was involved in this, there was nothing White could say or do.
UFC has never had the big scandal. Theyve had the failures here and there of the athletic commission testing that only those who are very unlucky or stupid fail. Shane Carwins name came out years ago in a major media story, but Carwins alleged receiving of PEDs in that story was for years long before he was in UFC. There wasnt much criticism of UFC for not taking action against Carwin, although there was some. Realistically, UFC shouldnt have done anything in that situation because of the time frame. WWE took no action against anyone whose dates of receipt of PEDs came before WWE brought back drug testing, even though its contract specifically banned those drugs years earlier. While you may not like it, it was the only fair thing to do. Use was tolerated, and you can certainly argue strongly encouraged, from 1996 through 2005. After the death of Eddy Guerrero, things changed, and after the death of Chris Benoit, they changed again.
For UFC, theres never been the big bust of a Lance Armstrong or Barry Bonds equivalent that was regularly beating testing.
Conte told Scott Ostler in a piece in SF Gate that Biogenesis was using GH and various forms of testosterone to beat the testing. He said they used Troches, they are like life savers, with 30 different flavors. They are in a sense, fast acting testosterone, that goes in and out of the system within hours. Each one has 75 milligrams of testosterone and somewhere between five and ten percent gets absorbed. Conte said he was told they would have guys take a few of those per day. The athletes would absorb 15 milligrams (or 1,500 extra nanograms, putting them in Chris Benoit territory).
When you take this stuff, it peaks at about four hours, and by six hours after you take it, youre back down below the 4-to-1 T:E ratio. So all they have to do is late at night, take it, and by the next morning, their already within allowable levels.
Conte felt Ryan Braun (the baseball player who just got nailed in this scandal, who did fail a drug test but was able at the time to beat the rap the first time by blaming a faulty chain-of-custody, but was just suspended for the remainder of the season, costing him in excess of $3 million in salary and killing his endorsements dead) took his Troches a little too late and when they tested him in the morning he was over the 4-to-1 (Nevada uses 6-to-1 for MMA although they have talked about going to 4-to-1 at a recent commission meeting).
Conte has always pushed for carbon isotope ratio (CIR) testing, which is more expensive than what commissions do. CIR testing purportedly will catch any synthetic testosterone dating back two weeks. VADA has been used by boxers who volunteered for it, and actually caught guys who didnt have to agree to it, but did. Their track record indicates that they are very effective, at least in a sport where, perhaps, the sophistication of drug usage, because of the ease of beating the previous limited testing, may not be at the level of some of the more heavily tested sports.
The idea of testing athletes with CIR testing constantly throughout their camp, they wouldnt have a safe window, although the off season still would be. Baseball and WWE are now both using CIR testing for confirmations of samples that have an elevated T:E ratio to make sure they arent getting a false positive.
My own feeling is that they should use CIR testing for anyone who has an even lower T:E ratio, maybe even 2-to-1 or 3-to-1. Plus, they can do stats on how frequent those ratios are in clean athletes when they use the CIR testing of anyone that elevated. Most people are 1-to-1 naturally, but there are plenty of exceptions. There are at least two recent WWE wrestlers (one of which was the former Chris Hero, now Kassius Ohno), who have claimed their normal level was actually more than 6-to-1 while not using steroids. This proved to be highly unusual, but both were tested to death and eventually proved their case.
A CIR test is about $400, a lot more expensive than the T:E test, which is why the latter, while not as effective, is used. The idea to go to CIR testing for anyone suspicious, as opposed to everyone being tested, makes sense that way. Conte also said to target test people whose performance has suddenly spiked. Conte knocked baseball because they do so little off-season testing, which would be the same as MMA, because with rare exceptions like the test that got Alistair Overeem, even non-competition testing in Nevada is usually limited to an unannounced test during training camp, usually with either a headliner or someone who has failed prior tests.
Conte also claimed that designer steroids are now detectable and have fallen out of use. I was told that isnt true, although some are now detectable including the Superdrol clones.
Fischer said there were athletes from the NBA, NCAA, pro boxing, pro tennis and MMA that were clients. No names were mentioned at this point and its interesting that in this case there was no mention of pro wrestlers, that seemed to crop up in nearly every big-time sports drug doctor story of the past decade.
It will be interesting to see if UFC goes after the names with the vigor that baseball did, and if and how they take any action against them.
Dana White was asked a few times over the weekend about the story, even to the point of what exactly they were using. White, spoke as he always does about government testing. In some big money fights in boxing, and most recently with Georges St-Pierre and Johny Hendricks, MMA fighters have volunteered to go through VADA testing, which is far more extensive testing than the usual athletic commission testing. Exactly what can and cant be beat in testing is a subject that becomes really political these days.
Victor Conte, one of the more outspoken players in the game, particularly when it comes to MMA, writes and talks about it all the time. He helps with the diet and supplementation of a number of MMA fighters, particularly in Northern California. In his previous life, he was one of the guys that the top athletes in the country, heavy hitters like Barry Bonds and Marion Jones, went to. Not a doctor, his background was actually in music with the famed Tower of Power, band, Conte garnered celebrity status for pushing supplementation while actually devising drug testing programs for many of the most famous athletes in the country, who were using PEDs heavily, and never getting caught, even while facing the most extensive testing programs.
Jones was regularly tested, never failed, and it wasnt until Contes records were raided that she was caught, and ended up spending time in jail because she continued to lie, even under oath.
Today, Conte gives the impression of a guy who has flipped sides. While not a part of VADA, who speaks for them all the time, and is very critical in particular about the athletic commission testing of boxers and MMA fighters.
The subject is one that has been beaten to death because of naivete, or worse. Dr. Joseph Maroon, who heads the WWEs medical board has claimed that WWE is now clean of PEDs due to its extensive testing. Yet, how many people believe that, let alone those who are close to the situation. WWE doesnt test for GH, and even if they did, the GH tests that are talked about as the new state of the art seem to catch very few, and there is widespread skepticism as to how effective they really are.
Its a subject that after decades, it appears the public has thrown up its hands at. Very public cases like Lance Armstrong have told the public that no matter how much you test, the star athletes dont seem to fail. Instead, whether its Armstrong and Ryan Braun, they lie, to the end. The belief is that at the top level in many sports, they are necessary and the big fish that get caught are either unlucky, or victims of being so good that they become targets.
Its simply impossible to believe that if GH, which tightens up the body and hardens the muscle, isnt being tested for, that nobody in WWE is using it. At the same time, whether its WWE or the Olympics, you can only test to the best of your ability. WWE testing is more frequent than the athletic commission testing for fighters, but there is always going to be skepticism when the company has no oversight from the outside when it comes to results and punishment.
There is also the question regarding leading by example. Exactly what are performers going to think when they are told their leaders are against PEDs when they have the belief those same said leaders preaching against were longtime users, and even believe that longtime usage continues?
Weve already seen, with the Signature Pharmacy case from 2007, that WWE will suspend wrestlers who pass their tests but show up on distribution lists (well, anyone not named Randy Orton). That case study alone tells you all you need to know about how fool-proof testing was when a significant percentage (12 of 67 at the time) of the active talent roster was busted by just one place publicly and most on the list had never failed a drug test. Every name that came out on the list was suspended except for one or two and given a strike. Granted, WWE suspensions for 30 days are hardly equivalent to most sports, where the suspensions can be anywhere from two years (Olympic sports), nine months to a year (UFC), or one third of the season (baseball), but the WWE suspensions arent that far off from the NFL (four games).
While some were getting GH, which the WWE testing isnt going to catch, a drug very effective in ripping physiques and leaning people out, for both men and women (who when it comes to their bodies are actually held to an even higher standard than the men as a male equivalent of Sara Del Rey makes it in WWE as something more than a trainer and a female version doesnt)), simple logic would say there is going to be at minimal some usage. This isnt pointing a finger that WWE is doing it wrong because all sports have these issues.
With UFC, with most testing being on the day of the show (some main eventers in Nevada will be tested during camp, as will fighters who ask for testosterone use exemptions), there are timing windows that can be used that in sports with frequent unannounced testing would be harder. For Bellator, with so many shows at Native American casinos, the testing is not even done on every show as UFC does.
I keep thinking its inevitable that UFC will eventually in-house do at least a WWE level of testing. The problem is that they have athletes all over the world and except at their annual fighter summit, they are never together, unlike WWE, where most of the roster is together several days a week. But it hasnt happened yet, and even with that style, if UFC is testing its own athletes, there is an issue because they are promoters. Making a deal with VADA or USADA and giving them not only full power to do unannounced tests but come up with mandatory suspensions, whether its nine months first time, 18 months the second, or whatever is deemed fair, would be an improvement over what we have now. But there is extensive politics in all that as well.
White has said how he believes PED use in a combat sport like MMA or boxing is worse than in baseball. In baseball, while it may turn long fly balls caught deep into home runs, add a few miles per hour to a fastball, and pervert longstanding records, in MMA and boxing, and quite frankly, in football as well, there is contact which can lead to significant injuries. Yet, baseball has more frequent and more comprehensive testing. White publicly clings to the story that MMA and boxing are tested by the government, and thus its a higher standard, whenever the subject comes up.
The one thing about baseball that has changed is the mentality, in the sense that before, there was a feeling that use was plentiful and while technically cheating, it was, not to the public but within the game, accepted cheating like it is in a lot of sports like bicycle racing, track, like it has always been in pro wrestling and really in MMA. Still, the reaction of players to the names busted was not one of sympathy, like track athletes, weightlifters and pro wrestlers used to have when names were busted. Players seemed happy this was happening and felt the cheaters were diminishing in numbers. Still, you always have to be skeptical because PEDs from day one have taught athletes to be dishonest.
There are times when athletes, fighters, or whoever, decry usage and say they are glad the guilty got caught, do you believe them or do you believe they are saying it because thats what they are supposed to say, or they truly mean it. One would think the clean athletes mean it. And those who arent, who say the same thing and later get exposed, well, thats part of athletes being taught to be dishonest on this subject and if they are unlucky, it comes back to bite them.
White, when the subject came up, was interested in what Biogenesis was using for the athletes that was beating tests. He seemed to have a different standard between steroids and testosterone. When somebody brought up testosterone cream, he kind of passed that off as harmless, that women sometimes use it, and didnt seem to have strong feelings over use of testosterone, seemingly differentiating it from steroids. He did say, more than once, that if UFC fighters names came out, it wouldnt be good. He didnt outright make a statement on what he would do if a name or names became public. Really, given the little information out on who and what is involved, and its not even a lock anyone from UFC was involved in this, there was nothing White could say or do.
UFC has never had the big scandal. Theyve had the failures here and there of the athletic commission testing that only those who are very unlucky or stupid fail. Shane Carwins name came out years ago in a major media story, but Carwins alleged receiving of PEDs in that story was for years long before he was in UFC. There wasnt much criticism of UFC for not taking action against Carwin, although there was some. Realistically, UFC shouldnt have done anything in that situation because of the time frame. WWE took no action against anyone whose dates of receipt of PEDs came before WWE brought back drug testing, even though its contract specifically banned those drugs years earlier. While you may not like it, it was the only fair thing to do. Use was tolerated, and you can certainly argue strongly encouraged, from 1996 through 2005. After the death of Eddy Guerrero, things changed, and after the death of Chris Benoit, they changed again.
For UFC, theres never been the big bust of a Lance Armstrong or Barry Bonds equivalent that was regularly beating testing.
Conte told Scott Ostler in a piece in SF Gate that Biogenesis was using GH and various forms of testosterone to beat the testing. He said they used Troches, they are like life savers, with 30 different flavors. They are in a sense, fast acting testosterone, that goes in and out of the system within hours. Each one has 75 milligrams of testosterone and somewhere between five and ten percent gets absorbed. Conte said he was told they would have guys take a few of those per day. The athletes would absorb 15 milligrams (or 1,500 extra nanograms, putting them in Chris Benoit territory).
When you take this stuff, it peaks at about four hours, and by six hours after you take it, youre back down below the 4-to-1 T:E ratio. So all they have to do is late at night, take it, and by the next morning, their already within allowable levels.
Conte felt Ryan Braun (the baseball player who just got nailed in this scandal, who did fail a drug test but was able at the time to beat the rap the first time by blaming a faulty chain-of-custody, but was just suspended for the remainder of the season, costing him in excess of $3 million in salary and killing his endorsements dead) took his Troches a little too late and when they tested him in the morning he was over the 4-to-1 (Nevada uses 6-to-1 for MMA although they have talked about going to 4-to-1 at a recent commission meeting).
Conte has always pushed for carbon isotope ratio (CIR) testing, which is more expensive than what commissions do. CIR testing purportedly will catch any synthetic testosterone dating back two weeks. VADA has been used by boxers who volunteered for it, and actually caught guys who didnt have to agree to it, but did. Their track record indicates that they are very effective, at least in a sport where, perhaps, the sophistication of drug usage, because of the ease of beating the previous limited testing, may not be at the level of some of the more heavily tested sports.
The idea of testing athletes with CIR testing constantly throughout their camp, they wouldnt have a safe window, although the off season still would be. Baseball and WWE are now both using CIR testing for confirmations of samples that have an elevated T:E ratio to make sure they arent getting a false positive.
My own feeling is that they should use CIR testing for anyone who has an even lower T:E ratio, maybe even 2-to-1 or 3-to-1. Plus, they can do stats on how frequent those ratios are in clean athletes when they use the CIR testing of anyone that elevated. Most people are 1-to-1 naturally, but there are plenty of exceptions. There are at least two recent WWE wrestlers (one of which was the former Chris Hero, now Kassius Ohno), who have claimed their normal level was actually more than 6-to-1 while not using steroids. This proved to be highly unusual, but both were tested to death and eventually proved their case.
A CIR test is about $400, a lot more expensive than the T:E test, which is why the latter, while not as effective, is used. The idea to go to CIR testing for anyone suspicious, as opposed to everyone being tested, makes sense that way. Conte also said to target test people whose performance has suddenly spiked. Conte knocked baseball because they do so little off-season testing, which would be the same as MMA, because with rare exceptions like the test that got Alistair Overeem, even non-competition testing in Nevada is usually limited to an unannounced test during training camp, usually with either a headliner or someone who has failed prior tests.
Conte also claimed that designer steroids are now detectable and have fallen out of use. I was told that isnt true, although some are now detectable including the Superdrol clones.
dream
Member
The actual numbers for UFC 162 on 7/6 in Las Vegas at the MGM Grand Garden Arena were 10,157 paid, 12,964 total and $4,826,450. They were 798 tickets away from a legitimate sellout.
Attempts by UFC to get into France were thwarted again last month when the Sports Ministry in the country on 7/2 reiterated its position against MMA due to allowing punching a man while he is down. In actuality, this looks to be the handiwork of the Las Vegas Culinary Workers Union, as Carole Bretteville, the President of the Womens Committee for Federation Francaise du Sport dEntreprise (FFSE) applauded the ban saying, France works very hard to promote equality in all aspects of life, especially in sports. FFSE promotes sport as a unifying force, where management and employees together benefit from shared recreational activities. I was appalled to find out how UFC was lobbying in France, especially when UNITE HERE informed me how UFC has tolerated derogatory statements and attitudes against women. We cannot allow such an organization to destroy all the work we have done to promote equality through French sports. I applaud the Ministers courage to reject free fighting in France. UFC, at least two years ago, was getting huge ratings on television in France, which is what makes the ban funny because exactly what are they protecting people from, close to 40 shows a year on television or perhaps one live event in Paris that will likely generate millions of dollars. UFC actually isnt allowed on TV in France, so it is on a station in Luxembourg which can be picked up throughout France.
The show this coming week on PPV, which is almost surely doing baseline numbers, is from Rio de Janeiro on 8/3. Its another show more for the Brazilian market. Facebook fights at 6:30 p.m. have Viscardi Andrade vs. Bristol Marunde, Francimar Barroso vs. Ednaldo Oliveira and Josh Clopton vs. Rani Yahya. The final show on FX at 8 p.m. has Ian McCall vs. Illarde Santos, Neil Magny vs. Sergio Mares, Sheila Gaff vs. Amanda Nunes and Vinny Magalhaes vs. Anthony Perosh. The main card at 10 p.m. has John Lineker vs. Jose Maria Tome, Thales Leitis vs. Tom Kong Watson, Cezar Ferreira vs. Thaigo Santos, Phil Davis vs. Lyoto Machida and Jose Aldo Jr. vs. Chan Sung Jung for the featherweight title.
Dana White sent this tweet to Frank Shamrock. Would have you in the UFC Hall of Fame but then I remember I fucking hate you.
The first three episodes of the new season of Ultimate Fighter with Ronda Rousey vs. Miesha Tate have been seen by people within the company. Dana White saw the first two episodes and raved, but thats his job. But others have said the same thing and that if people see the show, the episodes will build the fight, but Rousey is not a loveable, funny babyface in this. Rousey comes off volatile and Tate comes off as a pretty girl smirking at her behavior. Rousey also flipped Tate off at the 7/30 press conference in Los Angeles.
As noted here previously, the Association of Boxing Commissions are going to vote on and likely pass a rule designed to, if a fighter is standing, he wouldnt be able to put his hand on the ground and be considered a grounded fighter, thus banning knee and kick attacks. The wording is, according to MMA Junkie, Referees should instruct the fighters that they may still be considered a standing fighter even if they have a finger or a portion of the hand (or entire hand) on the canvas. In the discretion of the referee, a fighter who has a finger or hand on the canvas can still be legally struck in the head with knees and kicks. The referee may decide that the downed fighter is placing his or her finger or hand down without doing so for an offensive or countering maneuver in an attempt to advance or improve their position. The referee may decided that the downed fighter is instead simply trying to draw a foul. If the referee decides that the fighter is `touching down simply to benefit from a foul, the referee may consider that fighter a standing fighter and decide that no foul has occurred. If this goes into the rules, referees will also have the power to deduct points if a fighter puts his hands down repeatedly in that manner, although I cant imagine any referee enforcing that if the kicks and knees are legal.
Rousey will be filming The Expendables 3" from August through October. As part of the deal, she will be having facilities and be allowed to bring in training partners so she can start her training while on the set and then go into the hardest part of camp after filming is over.
Michael Chandler, the promotions biggest home grown star and current lightweight champion have signed a new long-term contract for an eight-fight minimum.
Ben Askrens contract expires with his 7/31 fight with Andrey Koreshkov. So this is a big one, because his negotiating leverage would be strong as welterweight champion and would be hurt significantly with a loss. Bellator has the right to match any outside offer, similar to the situation with Hector Lombard and Eddie Alvarez. Askren has always wanted a shot at Georges St-Pierre, but Dana White has never been thrilled with his all-wrestling style. Even though hes unbeaten and a champion, and may have the best wrestling in the sport, it wouldnt shock me if UFC doesnt even make a play for him. His biggest value to them would be taking an existing Bellator champion.
Attempts by UFC to get into France were thwarted again last month when the Sports Ministry in the country on 7/2 reiterated its position against MMA due to allowing punching a man while he is down. In actuality, this looks to be the handiwork of the Las Vegas Culinary Workers Union, as Carole Bretteville, the President of the Womens Committee for Federation Francaise du Sport dEntreprise (FFSE) applauded the ban saying, France works very hard to promote equality in all aspects of life, especially in sports. FFSE promotes sport as a unifying force, where management and employees together benefit from shared recreational activities. I was appalled to find out how UFC was lobbying in France, especially when UNITE HERE informed me how UFC has tolerated derogatory statements and attitudes against women. We cannot allow such an organization to destroy all the work we have done to promote equality through French sports. I applaud the Ministers courage to reject free fighting in France. UFC, at least two years ago, was getting huge ratings on television in France, which is what makes the ban funny because exactly what are they protecting people from, close to 40 shows a year on television or perhaps one live event in Paris that will likely generate millions of dollars. UFC actually isnt allowed on TV in France, so it is on a station in Luxembourg which can be picked up throughout France.
The show this coming week on PPV, which is almost surely doing baseline numbers, is from Rio de Janeiro on 8/3. Its another show more for the Brazilian market. Facebook fights at 6:30 p.m. have Viscardi Andrade vs. Bristol Marunde, Francimar Barroso vs. Ednaldo Oliveira and Josh Clopton vs. Rani Yahya. The final show on FX at 8 p.m. has Ian McCall vs. Illarde Santos, Neil Magny vs. Sergio Mares, Sheila Gaff vs. Amanda Nunes and Vinny Magalhaes vs. Anthony Perosh. The main card at 10 p.m. has John Lineker vs. Jose Maria Tome, Thales Leitis vs. Tom Kong Watson, Cezar Ferreira vs. Thaigo Santos, Phil Davis vs. Lyoto Machida and Jose Aldo Jr. vs. Chan Sung Jung for the featherweight title.
Dana White sent this tweet to Frank Shamrock. Would have you in the UFC Hall of Fame but then I remember I fucking hate you.
The first three episodes of the new season of Ultimate Fighter with Ronda Rousey vs. Miesha Tate have been seen by people within the company. Dana White saw the first two episodes and raved, but thats his job. But others have said the same thing and that if people see the show, the episodes will build the fight, but Rousey is not a loveable, funny babyface in this. Rousey comes off volatile and Tate comes off as a pretty girl smirking at her behavior. Rousey also flipped Tate off at the 7/30 press conference in Los Angeles.
As noted here previously, the Association of Boxing Commissions are going to vote on and likely pass a rule designed to, if a fighter is standing, he wouldnt be able to put his hand on the ground and be considered a grounded fighter, thus banning knee and kick attacks. The wording is, according to MMA Junkie, Referees should instruct the fighters that they may still be considered a standing fighter even if they have a finger or a portion of the hand (or entire hand) on the canvas. In the discretion of the referee, a fighter who has a finger or hand on the canvas can still be legally struck in the head with knees and kicks. The referee may decide that the downed fighter is placing his or her finger or hand down without doing so for an offensive or countering maneuver in an attempt to advance or improve their position. The referee may decided that the downed fighter is instead simply trying to draw a foul. If the referee decides that the fighter is `touching down simply to benefit from a foul, the referee may consider that fighter a standing fighter and decide that no foul has occurred. If this goes into the rules, referees will also have the power to deduct points if a fighter puts his hands down repeatedly in that manner, although I cant imagine any referee enforcing that if the kicks and knees are legal.
Rousey will be filming The Expendables 3" from August through October. As part of the deal, she will be having facilities and be allowed to bring in training partners so she can start her training while on the set and then go into the hardest part of camp after filming is over.
Michael Chandler, the promotions biggest home grown star and current lightweight champion have signed a new long-term contract for an eight-fight minimum.
Ben Askrens contract expires with his 7/31 fight with Andrey Koreshkov. So this is a big one, because his negotiating leverage would be strong as welterweight champion and would be hurt significantly with a loss. Bellator has the right to match any outside offer, similar to the situation with Hector Lombard and Eddie Alvarez. Askren has always wanted a shot at Georges St-Pierre, but Dana White has never been thrilled with his all-wrestling style. Even though hes unbeaten and a champion, and may have the best wrestling in the sport, it wouldnt shock me if UFC doesnt even make a play for him. His biggest value to them would be taking an existing Bellator champion.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Tito is back? How did I miss this?
dem
Member
I'm sorry... thats not a finish.
Thats "this is embarrassing.. I can't watch this anymore."
polyh3dron
Banned
And who exactly would that be?
Jest Chillin
Member
Chandler is a guy I'd like to see in The Ultimate. He's like an Edgar who's actually aggressively trying to win fights.
Host Samurai
Member
Once ALL of the old guard retires, we will be entering another dark age of MMA.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Askren and Chandler would be exposed by any top ten UFC fighter. Not that they're shit fighters or anything, just the archetypal big fish in a small pond.
Washed_Out
Member
Anyone at the open workouts in Houston for Cain and JDS?
Fornaximus
Member
I don't think Askren would do as well as Chandler in the UFC. I think most of the top 10 at 170 would run through him. I think Chandler would do well, even though 155 is the UFC's most stacked division.
dream
Member
Yeah, seriously. I'm thinking back on 2013 and it's like almost no stars other than Ruthless Robbie have been created. The only other two that come to mind are Rousey, who I suspect will retire after her next fight, and Wildman Weidman, who is a star in the same way Buster Douglas was a star.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Chandler probably is the most talented LW out there...he'll be a monster in a few years and let's not act like Benson Christ is dominating his opponents or that "TJ" "Grant" didn't somehow become a #1 contender in 2013.
Maia is showing that you can straight grapple most of that division. Askren won't win any titles, but he's easily top 10.
Sato Koiji
Member
Anyone that saw Askrens post fight interview knows...thats hes insane.
He has zero fights left on his Bellator contract...Joe Silva...Dana...someone do something.
UFC needs a character like him who doesnt give a shit and just smiles
He has zero fights left on his Bellator contract...Joe Silva...Dana...someone do something.
UFC needs a character like him who doesnt give a shit and just smiles
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I won't dispute Chandler's talent and potential, but in this sport you're only as good as the people you beat. And as good as Eddie Alvarez is, that's the only non-recyclable part of Chandler's fight record so far.
If Chandler and Askren valued their professional development, they'd get to the UFC ASAP, or constantly lobby Bellator to bring in actual talent. But Alvarez not being able to fight until 2015 has sent a message that the former is not the best course of action for them, and the latter has taken a backseat for Viacom signing up UFC wreckage and the usage of a tournament model that hinders the development of healthy weightclasses.
Sato Koiji
Member
Lets be honest. UFC cant do shit about talentless fighters. They tell you to fight and most of these chumps couldnt bust a damn grape.
I only see 2 COMPETITIVE title matches...Jones/Alex and Cain/JDS...the challenger has a chance here...although unlikely.
The rest are just mismatches!
Oh and I believe Pettis will be the new champ if his knees hold up.
Sato Koiji
Member
Winning records especially a perfect one should be valued.
THere are enough ride or die fighters as it is...its not that interesting to me. The numbers are important here.
THere are enough ride or die fighters as it is...its not that interesting to me. The numbers are important here.
Jest Chillin
Member
Winning records are only good for the next fight if the fighter isn't entertaining. Or are we going to pretend that Fitch didn't get cut for being boring as hell?
Sato Koiji
Member
I love Alex size. Gonna be good
if Wanderlei would not have won any fight until now...Dana wouldve cut him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJofz2J0qxU
That...is...beautiful!
Highlight moments:
3:14: The best fight possible is gonna happen HERE...in...Bellator. I like how the enthusiasm cools right off whe he said Bellator.
3:46: Oh man...bad timing Tito...LOL!
TheKaeptain
Banned
I love Alex size. Gonna be good
Jones going to put him on his back so fast.
UFC has less star caliber fighters that can draw 500k pay-per-view buys than fingers on my right hand.
Host Samurai
Member
UFC should have done a better job of securing its legends like Rampage and Tito. Now it screws up the new video game.
Dana would have never cut Wanderlai. He even said that he will always have a job in the UFC.
Dana would have never cut Wanderlai. He even said that he will always have a job in the UFC.
The UFC has done a woeful job developing stars from 2008-current. the only legit modern era stars in the ultimate are JBJ and HotRod Rousey, and neither are Iceman Liddell or QRJ caliber main events. We can forget about there ever being another Brock Lesnar phenomenon. The days of 1m ppv buys are over.
Sato Koiji
Member
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Only if the fights are competitive.
Gus' ring rust and lack of wrestling fundamentals = taken down and GNP'd into oblivion by the second. The fact that Jones has a chip on his shoulder after fighting two overweight 185ers and dealing with constant "you only win because you're bigger than everyone, lol" criticism from the media and from some sections of the UFC fanbase will put a fire up his ass to make quick work of Gus.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Game looks so dope
This game obviously appeals to the deviants that enjoy the GIF i posted above. Who the hell is part of this demographic. This game would be more embarrassing to play in public than ni no kuni.
Jest Chillin
Member
Joking? There's a reason guys like Leonard Garcia, Bonnar, and Kongo lasted as long as they did. Dana absolutely puts marketability and showmanship (both in the cage and out) ahead of winning records where roster cuts are concerned. Even Nick Diaz got a long leash while missing events and popping hot while Riddle got bounced the hell out for popping hot and intentionally fighting as boring as possible.
Host Samurai
Member
It doesn't help Dana when his fighters are scarred to fight, which makes it very difficult in creating new stars. Chuck, Wand, Page, Vitor, Royce, Huges and even our beloved GSP made names for themselves by devastating finishes and budo spirit. These guys now are all playing karate with take downs.
Watching the Jake vs Rory fight made me say " this is the future of our sport right here"
yah Dragons Crown. Finally a game to buy
TheKaeptain
Banned
What kind of respectable man plays video games in public?
polyh3dron
Banned
First of all, Ni No Kuni only exists on the PS3 in the west, so who would be playing it anywhere but in the privacy of their own home? Also, what exactly makes that game embarrassing? Is it the foreign sounding name that isn't 'murican enough and has too many "ee" sounds in it so that you go for the cheap "hur hur" and derisively refer to it as "pee pee time" for some reason? (Or was that just Heel, I forget lol)
Also, many of us are looking forward to Dragon's Crown for the gameplay and the quality of the 2D graphics, not necessarily because of some idiotic sexual attraction to hand drawn women. Muramasa is a damn good game.
Host Samurai
Member
Trust me, nobody will ever know I am playing Dragons Crown. Even if somebody comes over the game will be stashed away in one of the cabinets in my entertainment center where nobody can see it.
- Status