-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
MMA-GAF |OT5| Father Time Is Undefeated
- Thread starter polyh3dron
- Start date
slightconfuse
Banned
Where the hell is josh barnetto
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
Croatian Pride got robbed.
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
49-46??
WTF
WTF
Nah, Miocic took the first two rounds and then Dos Santos took over the fight and boxed him up. Rogan had a bit of a shocker on the comms calling clear whiffed punches from Miocic as ''great shots''.
48-47 all day.
plagiarize
Banned
Even in round 2 Dos Santos was ahead in the stats they showed on screen. When the strike totals come in, 49 - 46 won't look that crazy I thought the second round and last round was close, with the first clearly going to Stipe and 3 and 4 clearly going to Junior... but Stipe had a great performance in his first fight to go the full 5 rounds and will presumably continue to improve. Maybe next time. If you keep trying and failing to take someone down, you are losing on octagon control.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Stipe got robbed.
Stipe got the first two rounds. JDS got three and four. The fifth went either way but I'd give it to Stipe.
49-46? What fight were they watching?
Whatever. I just want JDS/Reem now.
Stipe got the first two rounds. JDS got three and four. The fifth went either way but I'd give it to Stipe.
49-46? What fight were they watching?
Whatever. I just want JDS/Reem now.
parrotbeak
Member
That was bullshit. Great fight and not taking anything from JDS, but his face is so swollen he looked like his wife.
plagiarize
Banned
I love silly opinions like this
If the fifth round was close and you have the fight tied going into it... *nobody got robbed*. That's like the definition of a toss up.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Yeah I had it 3-2 JDS but 4 and 5 could have gone either way. I was going for Stipe just to avoid a potential Cain/JDS IV which nobody wants.
Jest Chillin
Member
Strike Totals and "Octagon Control" are both worthless in a fight like this. When Dos Santos face looks like it went through a meat grinder and he didn't finish his opponent, that's an L in my book.
That being said, judges are almost always awful but 49-46 is a special kind of terrible . 3 rounds to 2 is the only way this fight should've been judged either way.
plagiarize
Banned
So because Dos Santos mixes up his strikes and doesn't just hit Stipe in the face he loses on damage? I had it 48-47 too by the way, but I thought the second round was close. Yeah, Stipe was hanging in there way beyond what I thought he would, but Junior was outlanding him and keeping the fight where he wanted, while doing damage to the body as well as the head.
*Shrug*. People get way too upset about fights with close rounds not going the way they expected.
You say the very things that the fights are scored on by judges are worthless metrics... but they're still the metrics the judges score the fights on.
Recently almost every time I see someone call a judges decision a robbery or bullshit, it's a fight that could easily have gone either way by their own decision. It doesn't matter a jot if the judges had it 49-46 or 48-47. They still had one guy winning over the other guy. Pay is based on wins and losses, not rounds won and rounds lost.
Jest Chillin
Member
It's not about whether or not he mixed up the strikes, it's about their effectiveness. The bodywork contributed without a doubt but it wasn't noticeably effective. Stipe's conditioning took more of a hit from the head shot that rocked him than he did from the body work.
And Judges don't score based on Strike metrics, they judge strikes the same way we do.. visually. "Octagon Control" is an outmoded judging criteria that badly needs to be thrown out. It comes from the days where getting taken down almost assuredly meant you were getting your ass kicked either through GnP or Sub attempts. That's not the case today though as many fighters can get takedowns but fail to actually do anything with them. Likewise with the Wall n Stall. That shit should not be scored if you're not doing anything with it.
Changing that would go a long way to making the sport more entertaining. Guys can continue to grind through fruitless takedowns and wall n stall as a tactic meant to wear out an opponent but the risk would be that they're not actively scoring in doing so. It will make these guys attempt to actually do something with these positions which will result in action one way or the other.
Edit:
That's a rather short sighted way of looking at things. Being upset at bad scoring even when correct scoring would have the same result speaks to the poor judging criteria overall which is what feeds into the way the fighters tactics. Fruitless control winning fights is exactly why there were guys like Fitch, Askren, late career GSP, etc... Sure they're talented guys but they're horribly boring and boring is bad for the sport. It's not even technically all that impressive in most cases.
plagiarize
Banned
Stipe was the one grinding and stalling (and I don't fault him for it, the rules are what they are and if he hadn't been wearing down Junior, Junior would have had a big stamina advantage). I mean, I don't disagree with what you're saying in essence... I'd love to see scoring metrics changed. I think takedowns that aren't in and of themselves damaging shouldn't really score, if the other fight just fights right back to their feet taking no damage, just to throw an idea out there.
But fights are scored based on octagon control. Out dated or ill advised. The body work was hurting Stipe. Which is why he started dropping his arms to defend against them, which is how he got blasted in the face in round three... but whatever. Two great fighters had a close fight. Personally I'd like to see more draws, but I always seem kind of alone in that way of thinking.
Jest Chillin
Member
Stipe was grinding, sure but that's not how and where he was actually scoring. The rounds he won, he won in the standup by having the more effective strikes.
I didn't actually see Junior step up the body work until after he hurt Miocic in the third, which seemed to me to be a result of Miocic no longer worrying about Junior's power. He thought he had the fight well in hand at that point and got lazy and paid for it.
The idea of failing to get takedowns counting against a fighter in the light of "octagon control" doesn't work. Defending a takedown isn't the same as say.. getting taken down but constantly attacking with subs off your back. The entire concept of octagon control, as it's currently implemented in judging criteria is just plain bad.
I don't think anyone calling this a bad decision or calling out the scoring as being poor is particularly lamenting the outcome of this fight. This fight just becomes yet another example in a long line of decisions not matching the reality of the feel of the fight. When the vast majority of people watching a fight disagree with the judging score (even if the end result would still be the same) then something needs to change. Either the judge is bad or the criteria is bad.
It's not your fault.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Palhares fucks Jon Fitch up with a kneebar from hell.
The is not a fighter on earth I am more scared of than him. Him and Imanari has fucked up so many athletes with their crazy shit. If you have never been caught in a kneebar...
It feels like... It's almost impossible to describe. I know that the heel hook is worse, because you dont feel it until its too late, but fuck man.
I would really like to see Palhares fight this crazy sambo bastard;
Spiderjericho
Member
Wow. I listened to last week's MMA Hour and heard John Fitch say he didn't really prepare any different for the leg locks/heel hooks.
A part of me wants to see Palhares go against Askren, McDonald, etc.
A part of me wants to see Palhares go against Askren, McDonald, etc.
Host Samurai
Member
Had JDS winning as well, but I am not sure if he looked off or if Stipe looked good? That being said JDS is exposed. I think Overeem might actually have a chance if he pressures JDS with his clinch and knees to the body.
Host Samurai
Member
Ill tell you where he's not. EA UFC's DLC
Spiderjericho
Member
Overeem is mid tier talent. His chin is glass and he's been exposed after his last three losses (Big Foot, Brown and Rothwell).
JDS would probably knock him out.
Having said that, those two Cain fights seemed to take years off his MMA shelf life.
Right now, it's Cain then pause Werdum and JDS...pause everyone else. I'd like to see a rematch between Werdum and JDS.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Only watched the main card and caught the WSOF main event as well. Good night of fights, it's been rare to be this pleased two weeks in a row!
this is from yesterday
i thought rikishi was dead. i guess not.
Tom arnold looks better than he did in true lies. Meanwhile arnie looks like sentient beef jerky
Following retirement at UFC on FOX 13, Jamie Varner wants to start a fighters' union
Uncle Dana is gonna send one of his goons to Arizona.
Uncle Dana is gonna send one of his goons to Arizona.
Brerlappin
Member
Aye, JDS would knock aubergine's head clean off. Any of those shots he landed on miocic would put reem to sleep. He has no chin whatsoever.
Reem just beat a guy who hasnt fought in ages, has a heart condition, and had a panic attack before his last fight. Reem isnt exactly covering himself in glory with that win.
Having said that tho i did think that looked like a diminshed JDS on Saturday. From the second he did his kinda half hearted throwdown he does when they announce his name, i thought he definitely looked off.
I'm totally fine with JDS Reem but wouldn't mind JDS Werdum 2. Werdum needs to supplant himself as the #2 guy at HW and no better way to do it but by beating JDS which I believe he can do. HW is actually semi interesting and there are a lot of matchups we can still have.
Hunt Arlovski
Hunt Stipe
Hunt Browne
Arlovski Stipe
Arlovski Browne
Arlovski Nelson 2
Werdum JDS
Werdum Reem 2
Browne JDS
Browne Stipe
Browne Big Foot
Barnett Big Foot
Barnett Stipe
Barnett JDS
Barnett Reem
Reem Big Country
Reem Big Foot
interestingly enough, Cain Werdum is the only fight worth interest. He easily destroys everyone else. Bring in 37 year old Fedor and Brock pls.
Hunt Arlovski
Hunt Stipe
Hunt Browne
Arlovski Stipe
Arlovski Browne
Arlovski Nelson 2
Werdum JDS
Werdum Reem 2
Browne JDS
Browne Stipe
Browne Big Foot
Barnett Big Foot
Barnett Stipe
Barnett JDS
Barnett Reem
Reem Big Country
Reem Big Foot
interestingly enough, Cain Werdum is the only fight worth interest. He easily destroys everyone else. Bring in 37 year old Fedor and Brock pls.
Oh yeah forgot about that. It's kinda sad there is no great young HW talent coming up but why would they for 8k/8k
I'm okay with the flabby 30 year olds I guess
We ought to have some big turnover in the HW division over the next few years:
Cain - 32
JDS - 30 (going to be 31 soon)
Werdum - 37
Browne - 32
Hunto - 40
Miocic - 32
Arlovski - 35 (chin much older)
Barnett - 37
Bigfoot - 35
Nelson - 38
The next tier's all in their mid-late 30s too (Mir, Gonzada, Meathead, Rothwell) except Struve.
Cain - 32
JDS - 30 (going to be 31 soon)
Werdum - 37
Browne - 32
Hunto - 40
Miocic - 32
Arlovski - 35 (chin much older)
Barnett - 37
Bigfoot - 35
Nelson - 38
The next tier's all in their mid-late 30s too (Mir, Gonzada, Meathead, Rothwell) except Struve.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy_Riner
Need specimens like this
6'8 290lbs judoka 25 years old
Multi time gold medalist
Unfortunately he makes more money doing one seminar than he would make in an entire stint in the UFC
Need specimens like this
6'8 290lbs judoka 25 years old
Multi time gold medalist
Unfortunately he makes more money doing one seminar than he would make in an entire stint in the UFC
UFC HW division talent will never rise above mediocrity until they start seriously paying these people. You'd make $107,100 being on an NFL practice squad for a year, while the UFC is generous enough to offer 8k/8k for your first few fights. If you're lucky you'd get 12k/12k or 15k/15k, but don't count on it. These are realistic minimums, though one could argue that since these are professional sports we should use the NFL roster minimum of 420k for comparison.
If you are a collegiate athlete a UFC career is likely not very high on your list of aspirations.
If you are a collegiate athlete a UFC career is likely not very high on your list of aspirations.
Not to mention a huge chunk of that measly 16K (if you WIN) goes to taxes, camp pay, travel accomodations and whatnot. And now the UFC is taking away that sponsorship money which would be pouring salt in their wounds. Why would any decent athlete want to make a career in the UFC unless you absolutely love fighting? Bones got very lucky and wholly respect his route to the top taking that shit pay and still toughing it out / dominating while being a decently respectable athlete himself.
But making the practice squad in the NFL isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world either. I can see why a lot of athletes can give up and pursue careers elsewhere. I for one would love fighter pay to get a nice bump not cause I care about the fighters' welfare but moreso it can attract greater athletes to the sport.
Jest Chillin
Member
Which is why I'm actually kind of surprised we don't see more Mitrione's. There's gotta be plenty of guys who can only hack a few seasons of the NFL (if that) who still want to hit people for a living.