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[StueyDuck]

Australia aren't part of NATO, we've had a free trade agreement with the US which we signed 20 years ago and have a trade deficit with US ever since. Have also backed US actions in Iran and provided defensive support to Gulf states and intelligence.

We still copped tariffs to 'run up
The score' on us and now included on this latest shit list.

I've always seen the US as a reliable ally to Australia (and vice versa) but recent rhetoric and actions from Trump towards us during this term so far hasn't exactly strengthened those feelings.

see, that's a genuine criticism towards fair play.

 

[LyricalShrike]

VAT is literally an added tax... whether it's "local" or not, the point is that imported product is still be subjected to VAT where in return it isn't. The US is tricky because states all do their own thing but goods coming in from outside the US aren't being taxed.

whether you like it or not its an "Added tax" and acts much in the same way as a tariff does when it comes to foreign imports.



It's not a literal tariff, i thought that was obivous.

Its not a tariff in the figurative sense either. Its just sales tax with an audit trail. Total tax collected is the same. Sales tax, like in the US, is only paid by end consumers. VAT is charged at every step where value is added to a good whether for business or individual purposes(The V stands for Value which you missed). It prevents false invoicing or cash deals to dodge sales tax since there will be a gap in the tax chain at some point. VAT doesn't put US exporters at a disadvantage at all. They get the VAT paid back when its sold, they destroy the item, or remove it from the VAT jurisdiction. Bonded warehouses also exist to allow storage of goods without incurring VAT.

 

[StueyDuck]

Its not a tariff in the figurative sense either. Its just sales tax with an audit trail. Total tax collected is the same. Sales tax, like in the US, is only paid by end consumers. VAT is charged at every step where value is added to a good whether for business or individual purposes(The V stands for Value which you missed). It prevents false invoicing or cash deals to dodge sales tax since there will be a gap in the tax chain at some point. VAT doesn't put US exporters at a disadvantage at all. They get the VAT paid back when its sold, they destroy the item, or remove it from the VAT jurisdiction. Bonded warehouses also exist to allow storage of goods without incurring VAT.

It's still a tax, my man. There is no such thing as "a good tax". It's literally just taking money because they can.

US exporters just have learnt to work the system; it's actually the EU people who are at a disadvantage, which in turn make US products sell less because they cost more.

Again, it's not a literal tariff, but it affects trade in the same way, where goods must now be more expensive and sell less or remain cheap and not make the returns needed.

Why do you think a Console in the US is Cheaper than most of the EU? Most countries even?

 

[Wildebeest]

Australia aren't part of NATO, we've had a free trade agreement with the US which we signed 20 years ago and have a trade deficit with US ever since. Have also backed US actions in Iran and provided defensive support to Gulf states and intelligence.

We still copped tariffs to 'run up
The score' on us and now included on this latest shit list.

I've always seen the US as a reliable ally to Australia (and vice versa) but recent rhetoric and actions from Trump towards us during this term so far hasn't exactly strengthened those feelings.

NATO membership has nothing to do with this because NATO is a defensive alliance and this isn't a defensive action. There was a question about the attack at Cyprus but that appeared to be a limited Hezbollah action and wasn't something that NATO was needed to deal with. So Australia not being part of NATO is equally irrelevant to France being part of it.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

NATO membership has nothing to do with this because NATO is a defensive alliance and this isn't a defensive action. There was a question about the attack at Cyprus but that appeared to be a limited Hezbollah action and wasn't something that NATO was needed to deal with. So Australia not being part of NATO is equally irrelevant to France being part of it.

I was commenting in context of previous posts regarding Trumps tweet and NATO.

 

[Wildebeest]

I was commenting in context of previous posts regarding Trumps tweet and NATO.

I just wanted to clear this up because I think some people might read it and not be aware. Also Australia is a Five Eyes member which is, in many ways, a closer military alliance with the USA than NATO.

 

[Darius87]

Well, if he pulls out of NATO, I hope the EU won't be crying, since they are so anti-everything the US does.

Also, defending isn't "being dragged into the war"... Trump isn't asking EU members to bomb Iran, he's asking them to protect global affairs, which by golly do EU leaders love having big taxpayer-funded parties and security councils meetings to always talk about.

Again, I applaud France for looking out for civilians. The rest of the EU can stop whinging; they barely did anything when it was right on their doorstep with Ukraine.

nato is defensive alliance there nothing to defend apart bases which what France is doing ships won't go through straight if there's risk being attacked not because there's no one to guard them, even that would be the case you can't guard that many ships like it was before war, now ensurance is the problem, I think you're generalizing to much Europe isn't anti everything us does they support removal of Iran regime, the problem is that Trump is incompetent at anything he does and threatens Eu states for no reason and he's pro Russia witch doesn't makes sense unless he's compromised.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

I just wanted to clear this up because I'm think some people might read it and not be aware. Also Australia is a Five Eyes member which is, in many ways, a closer military alliance with the USA than NATO.

Certainly doesn't feel that way at the moment.

 

[Madserb2023]

nato is defensive alliance there nothing to defend apart bases which what France is doing ships won't go through straight if there's risk being attacked not because there's no one to guard them, even that would be the case you can't guard that many ships like it was before war, now ensurance is the problem, I think you're generalizing to much Europe isn't anti everything us does they support removal of Iran regime, the problem is that Trump is incompetent at anything he does and threatens Eu states for no reason and he's pro Russia witch doesn't makes sense unless he's compromised.

I am pretty sure Nato bombed Serbia without being attacked after the massacre. Whether you agree or not that they should have done it is one thing, but Nato is a military alliance first. Seen thousands of comments about wanting European Nato to attack Russia from the same people saying it shouldn't get involved in Iran as it hasn't been directly attacked. I just think European Nato is pathetic. Couldn't help in Iran anyway. As we have seen with Russia with the constant debate about whether Europe combined could send 30,000 peace keeping troops to Ukraine. Serbia just couldn't fight back like Iran.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I remember being in Seattle when people were demonstrating against Obama and saying they would impeach him. I'm sure that every president is demonstrated against in different parts of the country at different times for various actions people don't agree with.

With Trump, however, I think he actually will be out of office before his term is up. The guy is obviously in significant decline and not at all fit for the job. This war might be the catalyst to get things moving.

 

[Wildebeest]

I am pretty sure Nato bombed Serbia without being attacked after the massacre. Whether you agree or not that they should have done it is one thing, but Nato is a military alliance first. Seen thousands of comments about wanting European Nato to attack Russia from the same people saying it shouldn't get involved in Iran as it hasn't been directly attacked. I just think European Nato is pathetic. Couldn't help in Iran anyway. As we have seen with Russia with the constant debate about whether Europe combined could send 30,000 peace keeping troops to Ukraine. Serbia just couldn't fight back like Iran.

Libya is more comparable to current events than Serbia. Serbia turned out relatively well but Libya was a shit show. In both cases NATO was not activated as a military alliance but as a framework for cooperation that a "coalition of the willing" could use to work together.

 

[winjer]

 

[LyricalShrike]

It's still a tax, my man. There is no such thing as "a good tax". It's literally just taking money because they can.

US exporters just have learnt to work the system; it's actually the EU people who are at a disadvantage, which in turn make US products sell less because they cost more.

Again, it's not a literal tariff, but it affects trade in the same way, where goods must now be more expensive and sell less or remain cheap and not make the returns needed.

Why do you think a Console in the US is Cheaper than most of the EU? Most countries even?

US products only cost more than local products under a VAT system if the cost to produce them is more than local equivalent. Your opinions on tax matter to me less than you understanding why VAT isn't really a tariff.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[Rentahamster]

It's still a tax, my man. There is no such thing as "a good tax". It's literally just taking money because they can.

You're moving the goalposts from criticisms of specifically import taxes to criticisms of taxes in general.

 

[BlackTron]

Or

The US pays for majority of nato spending, maybe europe can step up to the game instead of literally fighting the US at every point and become bed fellows with radical Islam and china

The EU cant keep crying when Trump wants to pull out of NATO, threatening war when he says something stupid about greenland (literally going as far as mobilizing troops) but when it comes to protecting the hormuz straight now they use "tariffs" as an excuse.

The "stupid thing that we he said" was threatening to invade Greenland. Our allies "threat" was sending tripwire forces to Greenland just in case we actually tried to do it. Imagine being offended and expecting some sort of compensation for asserting you will fight if you try to take my territory. You can't make this shit up. It looks like standing up to him is why we didn't do it, and thank God. I don't want it to take THAT many generations to rebuild trust in the US. Maybe we can get it down to just one whole gen!

It was not just an off the cuff remark that faded with pushback. He doubled and tripled down and then threatened economic damage against any country who disagreed with him on it. You can't say "Trump strong man" one day, and "oh he just say stupid thing why take serious" the next.

Yes allies should have your back. That is not how we are treating them. We could not even keep our commitment to protect Ukraine if they gave their nukes up.

Becoming bedfellows with Islam/China is not good but you're using that as some sort of excuse/whataboutism for our own poor 4D chess moves and I just don't see the correlation.

Iran needed our help and I'm glad we went, but I'm not happy we entered a war in the midst of burned bridges and bungled foreign policy. He's treating allies the same way he treats every person, including his domestic allies. An abusive relationship where you get blamed for the reasons they had to abuse you to begin with.

 

[winjer]

Trump betrayed EU allies by denying support to Ukraine and cutting off Intel sharing.
Threatens to invade one of EU's members.
Constantly insults EU leaders.
Starts a war without consulting it's NATO allies.
A war that increases prices, harming it's EU and Asian allies, while benefiting Russia.
And now expects the EU to clean up after the fuck up he made.
This guy is a complete moron. Never in US history have we seen a a POTUS fuck up this badly in international relations.
As much as I want the Iranian Islamic regime gone, the way Trump has gone about it is a complete mess.

 

[Madserb2023]

I think you are understating Europe's move towards China. I say this as a Brit that far too much of our critical infrastructure has been handed over to China. Not only do you not have any kind of moral High ground. Not only do they threaten to invade Taiwan every year, but they are actively claiming and annexing islands belonging to the Philippines etc. You can not claim to be concerned about sovereignty. Also this move towards China preceded Trump's let alone Greenland as to why they were against Trump's position on China.