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Monitoring the situation in Iran

It is not whataboutism

It literally is. I said thing A is a waste. "But thing B is also a waste too". C'mon now.

is there not a national benefit in removing that threat?
Yes

is your position that the military action has increased the overall threat?
Yes.

Are you safer now due to the 25 year old War on Terror? No. No you are not. Your freedoms are fucked. Your privacy is fucked. The war has drained our treasury when it could have invested in our future.
 
Calling it the Post-Gadaffi World where suddenly everyone needs nukes makes it seem like Gadaffi was the first ruler in history to be overthrown. North Korea had no nuclear weapons for decades and was never attacked. India and Pakistan have nukes and attack each other all the time.
 
Imagine if we instead spent that on child care assistance for working families. Or job training for our out of work and undereducated citizens. Or financial assistance for our farmers and manufacturers who are on the verge of bankruptcy. Or another James Webb Space Telescope. Or treatment and health care for our wounded and PTSD-stricken veterans from our previous silly wars.

That was the promise that got Trump and Republican politicians elected. No more wasteful endless wars, use those billions on fixing crumbling infrastructure, keeping the US national debt under control, etc. But instead we're seeing the US starting a war with Iran without a plan. What's the end goal? And is that goal actually achievable? Because if Iran doesn't go down within the next week and can keep producing and firing drones, there'll be hardly any interceptors left to shoot them down. And the Strait of Hormuz will remain blocked, fucking up the world economy.

Another "irony" is that killing Khameini was probably not such a great idea considering he was seen as a moderate in Iran. By taking him out it frees the way for the hardliners to take over. And that new government will not be so naive as to believe you can negotiate with the US. In fact, there's no reason why any government on earth would have any trust in anything the US says or offers. The US now does whatever it wants, lies, cheats, kills. Even longtime European allies are treated like dirt on its shoes.

 
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At this point instead of Pahlavi giving speeches, he should start thinking about how to go to Iran and try to rally the people. I think at one point, the iranians will have to arm up themselves if they want to have a Pahlavi government. When the bombings stop, that's will be their only chance.

That was the promise that got Trump and Republican politicians elected. No more wasteful endless wars, use those billions on fixing crumbling infrastructure, keeping the US national debt under control, etc. But instead we're seeing the US starting a war with Iran without a plan. What's the end goal? And is that goal actually achievable? Because if Iran doesn't go down within the next week and can keep producing and firing drones, there'll be hardly any interceptors left to shoot them down. And the Strait of Hormuz will remain blocked, fucking up the world economy.
Iran is losing capability to launch anything each and every day.

Other than that - everything else is blocked by the Congress. Trump is not the king - "the American President is mayor of America, and dictator of the world". He can't force the Senate or the House to do anything if they do not play ball. Same with the judiciary branch. He creates EOs but the domestic policy is pretty limited in what he can do. You can send billions to the infrastructure but the bills do not pass, democrats are always against, RINOs who has been in power 20+ years do not care (guess who have been electing them), governors and mayors ignore or waste money on committees.
 
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Would you trust Matt Walsh?





So every single time they were on the "brink" of a functional nuclear weapon, they got shut down militarily? Every single time going back 30 years?





Netanyahu's recent remarks about the conflict line up perfectly with that clip montage of him.








I'm not sure what video you're referencing, but of course they're trying to develop nuclear weapons. That's the only thing that keeps North Korea and Russia safe, so why wouldn't they want some of their own when they're getting constantly messed with and threatened? They say "Death to America" and we threaten to destroy them. We say "Death to Iran (i.e. regime change)" and they threated to destroy us. This stupid cycle of violence doesn't help any of either countries' citizens, and only serves to line the wallets of the military-industrial complex.





No.



No.




Whattaboutism aside, a lot of our military spending is also 'gifts for foreigners' that doesn't actually make us safer.

I would trust the IAEA over any journalist.


As for Netanyahu, he's been known to exaggerate for personal political gain, and I'm no fan of him personally. But the Iranian program is real. Previous Israeli PMs knew about it and talked about it.

Iran's wish to destroy Israel is also real, and the same is true for Iran's hatred of the United States. Your argument is the U.S. created the Iranian devil through interventionism.

But the fact of the matter is Arab and Muslim countries also created a narrative of victimhood in their relations with the west by refusing to acknowledge Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, and making the egotistical mistake of tying the existence of Israel with western colonialism.

So how about a different approach: Arab and Muslim countries in the Middle East can simply acknowledge that Israel is not a western colony, that it makes historical sense to settle the Jews in that region, that their own religious books, to which they so fiercely cling, acknowledge this fact.

Why is that so difficult? Israel would gladly trade and develop peaceful and prosperous relations with any neighboring country not seeking to destroy it. Everyone would benefit from this, and competing global powers wouldn't have to spend so many resources guarding one of the most important trade routes in the world, if the countries surrounding it actually did a decent job operating it themselves. It would be extremely profitable for them.
 
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I said thing A is a waste.
That's not what you said, or what is implied by what you said.

The implication of what you said was that you considered A more important than C, which does not necessarily mean you consider C a waste. It is perfectly reasonable to ask why A has to be funded by cutting C, if A could instead be funded by cutting thing-which-is-actually-a-waste B.

Regardless, you seem to have clarified that your position -if I understand it correctly- is that B & C both amount to gifts for foreigners and are both a waste.

Are you safer now due to the 25 year old War on Terror?
Whataboutism.

There is a danger here of the American people adopting a knee-jerk reaction that because a threat was overestimated (or invented, depending on your point of view) in the past, that therefore all future threats must surely be overestimated or invented. This has a high risk of resulting in underreacting to an actual threat sooner or later.
 
At this point instead of Pahlavi giving speeches, he should start thinking about how to go to Iran and try to rally the people. I think at one point, the iranians will have to arm up themselves if they want to have a Pahlavi government. When the bombings stop, that's will be their only chance.
The Iranian people already have an army, the Artesh. If it is loyal to him, it needs to take control from the IRGC.
There was a speculative report, cited here earlier, that claimed such a possibility was realistic.
 
The Iranian people already have an army, the Artesh. If it is loyal to him, it needs to take control from the IRGC.
There was a speculative report, cited here earlier, that claimed such a possibility was realistic.
The problem is that the Artesh is not loyal to him. Most of it at least. The dude has not had any power in Iran for 40+ years. There is basically nobody left supporting him aside young protesters.
 
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Assuming it was a US sub, I think that's the first time since WW2 a US sub has sunk an enemy ship (in the traditional way at least)?

A British sub sank the Belgrano during the Falklands war in 1982, but I think that's it for Western subs sinking enemy ships post-WW2. Fun fact: the Belgrano (formerly the USS Phoenix) was present at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked.
 
The problem is that the Artesh is not loyal to him. Most of it at least. The dude has not had any power in Iran for 40+ years. There is basically nobody left supporting him aside young protesters.
The only way to take power from the IRGC is with an army. The people won't be able to do it on their own. So let's hope that behind the scenes, agreements are being made with high ranking commanders in the Artesh, be they to support Pahlavi or some other interim leader that is unaffiliated with the Ayatollahs.
 
The only way to take power from the IRGC is with an army. The people won't be able to do it on their own. So let's hope that behind the scenes, agreements are being made with high ranking commanders in the Artesh, be they to support Pahlavi or some other interim leader that is unaffiliated with the Ayatollahs.
And that's the thing - unless Pahlavi is doing that, there is no chance he can gain power again. Considering that he would rather travel to EU to give a press conference...I am not sure about that. He might become another Machado. You need swords that are local to Iran. Foreign troops won't be able to prop him up. So let's how it is going to develop. I think when bombings conclude, there will be another message to rise and take over. If the iranians won't do that, it is truly over for the current Iran.
 
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What did your, foreign non-US citizen, self say about the Lybia war (sorry-special military operation) under former President Obama?

I anxiously await your answer. Thanks.
Knowing France the government probably protested because we know the shitshow that happens when US does something .
 
And that's the thing - unless Pahlavi is doing that, there is no chance he can gain power again. Considering that he would rather travel to EU to give a press conference...I am not sure about that. He might become another Machado. You need swords that are local to Iran. Foreign troops won't be able to prop him up. So let's how it is going to develop. I think when bombings conclude, there will be another message to rise and take over. If the iranians won't do that, it is truly over for the current Iran.
If after all these years, if all Pahlavi has to show the Iranian people are empty words, then he'll go down in history as a monumental disappointment. I am holding on to the hope that there are undercover actors inside Iran, people with actual connections to power, working in parallel to him. If they exist, it makes complete sense for them not to reveal themselves.
 

Of course it's bullshit.
If Iran, or any other country wanted Uranium for a power plant, they don't need an enrichment facility.
Uranium with U235 at 5% is available in the international market for sale, easily available for countries to buy.
Russia, France and the USA are the major sellers of Uranium enriched for civilian nuclear energy production. (5% U235)
There are requirements for the buying country to comply with safety standards IAEA.
And being a member of the on-Proliferation Treaty helps.

The reality is that only countries that want to enrich Uranium to above 90% U235, need to have enrichment facilities.
Countries that want a peaceful nuclear reactor to make energy, just buy it from Russia, USA or France. It's much cheaper and safer.
 
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Of course it's bullshit.
If Iran, or any other country wanted Uranium for a power plant, they don't need an enrichment facility.
Uranium with U235 at 5% is available in the international market for sale, easily available for countries to buy.
Russia, France and the USA are the major sellers of Uranium enriched for civilian nuclear energy production. (5% U235)
There are requirements for the buying country to comply with safety standards IAEA.
And being a member of the on-Proliferation Treaty helps.

The reality is that only countries that want to enrich Uranium to above 90% U235, need to have enrichment facilities.
Countries that want a peaceful nuclear reactor to make energy, just buy it from Russia, USA or France. It's much cheaper and safer.
Thank you. I hope we can now lay to rest the argument circulating in this thread that the Iran nuclear program is just another "Iraq WMD" scare tactic. That argument is simply wrong.
Rentahamster Rentahamster
 
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That was the promise that got Trump and Republican politicians elected. No more wasteful endless wars, use those billions on fixing crumbling infrastructure, keeping the US national debt under control, etc. But instead we're seeing the US starting a war with Iran without a plan. What's the end goal? And is that goal actually achievable? Because if Iran doesn't go down within the next week and can keep producing and firing drones, there'll be hardly any interceptors left to shoot them down. And the Strait of Hormuz will remain blocked, fucking up the world economy.

Another "irony" is that killing Khameini was probably not such a great idea considering he was seen as a moderate in Iran. By taking him out it frees the way for the hardliners to take over. And that new government will not be so naive as to believe you can negotiate with the US about. In fact, there's no reason why any government on earth would have any trust in anything the US says or offers. The US now does whatever it wants, lies, cheats, kills. Even longtime European allies are treated like dirt on its shoes.



The Duran is amongst the worst tankie trash on Youtube. Like brainmelting levels of bootlicking to authoritarian regimes and spinning a narrative devoid of any logic. You are free to believe the nonsense they spout, but don't expect anyone sane to take you serious.
 
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Thank you. I hope we can now lay to rest the argument circulating in this thread that the Iran nuclear program is just another "Iraq WMD" scare tactic. That argument is simply wrong.
Rentahamster Rentahamster

Just consider that Rosatom is one of the very few Russian entities not sanction by the West. Several EU countries still buy Uranium from Russia, natural (0.72%) or enriched (3-5%)
If Iran wanted to build a civilian nuclear reactor, only, all they had to do is ask for it.
I would not be surprised if a country like France would help building it, as long as there were guaranties and inspections, to make sure there were no enrichment facilities.

There are a ton of impediments, internationally, for any country to build a nuclear weapons program. From all countries that have the technology.
But there are not many restrictions, asides from safety, to building a civilian reactor for civilian energy production.
 
That was the promise that got Trump and Republican politicians elected. No more wasteful endless wars, use those billions on fixing crumbling infrastructure, keeping the US national debt under control, etc. But instead we're seeing the US starting a war with Iran without a plan. What's the end goal? And is that goal actually achievable? Because if Iran doesn't go down within the next week and can keep producing and firing drones, there'll be hardly any interceptors left to shoot them down. And the Strait of Hormuz will remain blocked, fucking up the world economy.

Another "irony" is that killing Khameini was probably not such a great idea considering he was seen as a moderate in Iran. By taking him out it frees the way for the hardliners to take over. And that new government will not be so naive as to believe you can negotiate with the US about. In fact, there's no reason why any government on earth would have any trust in anything the US says or offers. The US now does whatever it wants, lies, cheats, kills. Even longtime European allies are treated like dirt on its shoes.


The US' and the Republican reputation internationally continues to crater- no denying that. Midterms will be interesting.

The whole Spain issue is just another example of Trump's failure in international politics. The "America First" strategy fails when the US needs access to something foreign. I have never seen a White House so high on its own farts, then be unable to maturely handle the consequences.
 
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I hope we can now lay to rest the argument circulating in this thread that the Iran nuclear program is just another "Iraq WMD" scare tactic. That argument is simply wrong.

I don't think you understand what my argument is. Did you miss the part where I said that of course Iran is trying to develop a nuclear weapon?
 
The Duran is amongst the worst tankie trash on Youtube. Like brainmelting levels of bootlicking to authoritarian regimes and spinning a narrative devoid of any logic. You are free to believe the nonsense they spout, but don't expect anyone sane to take you serious.

Nothing wrong with hearing views from "the other side" if you are aware where they're coming from. I get my news from all sides, even ones I don't usually agree with because then I get a different perspective instead of living in a bubble that only confirms what I already believe. And you need that broader view considering the amount of disinformation that's online.
 
At some point it must become clear "The Other Side" just repeats the same lie for years.

1 month ago: Putin New Demand As Kyiv Collapses
6 months ago: Ukraine Faces Catastrophe As Pokrovsk Front Collapses
1 year ago: West Panics As Ukraine Collapses
2 years ago: Kyiv Quarrels, Front Collapses

Scroll back years and it's the same thing over and over again.
 
Nothing wrong with hearing views from "the other side" if you are aware where they're coming from. I get my news from all sides, even ones I don't usually agree with because then I get a different perspective instead of living in a bubble that only confirms what I already believe. And you need that broader view considering the amount of disinformation that's online.

There is getting news from "the other side" and then there are those like The Duran, The New Atlas, Jeffrey Sachs, Scott Ritter and other, a circlejerk of stupidity. I have watched their videos before and it's just spouting views that see the West under the American Empire being the baddies and in decline, while the "Global South" with China and Russia or whatever at the forefront is rising. Their coverage of East Asian politics is completely laughable, be it Taiwan or Japan, they seriously have no idea what they're talking about and rely on a lesser regurgitation of PRC talking points.
 
Then in what way has Netanyahu been crying wolf for decades?

In the way where he says the threat is imminent multiple times over many years in order to further Israel's imperialist goals, get more money from the USA, and manipulate public opinion when time after time nothing ends up happening, and the saber rattling makes the situation worse off than before.
 
No it hasn't. He has been crying crying wolf for decades, and unilaterally bombing a country is not the only way to get them to comply.

Netanyahu might have exaggerated when he said Iran was 2 weeks away from having nukes, but Iran did have a nuclear weapons program, enrichment facilities and highly enriched Uranium.
The time scale was probably wrong, but Iran was working to make nukes.
 
U.S. considering arming the Kurds which probably works short term. But absolutely not a good idea long term, these weapons can easily end up in the wrong hands and the mindset of these groups can quickly change once they've accomplished their goals.
Considering is different from doing. And if they do decide to do it, I'll agree it's incredibly risky and has failed repeatedly in the past.
 
Netanyahu might have exaggerated when he said Iran was 2 weeks away from having nukes, but Iran did have a nuclear weapons program, enrichment facilities and highly enriched Uranium.
The time scale was probably wrong, but Iran was working to make nukes.

Yeah I know, I've said so much as recently as the last page.

U.S. considering arming the Kurds which probably works short term. But absolutely not a good idea long term, these weapons can easily end up in the wrong hands and the mindset of these groups can quickly change once they've accomplished their goals.

I feel like our current leaders should be reminded how Al-Qaeda came to be in the first place.
 
In the way where he says the threat is imminent multiple times over many years in order to further Israel's imperialist goals, get more money from the USA, and manipulate public opinion when time after time nothing ends up happening, and the saber rattling makes the situation worse off than before.
He's a politician, and his job is looking out for Israeli interests. I've already acknowledged that he's prone to exaggerating for his own political gains and that I don't approve of the man, personally, but he's still acting within his right as PM and within the margin that most politicians operate in. There is truth behind his point of view, even if you don't like the way he tries to sell it. And ultimately, he does have a more complete picture of what's actually happening in the region than any journalist.

Edit: Also I object to your claim that Israel has "imperialist goals", but that's all I'll say on the matter unless moderators believe it is relevant to the topic.
 
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Nothing wrong with hearing views from "the other side" if you are aware where they're coming from. I get my news from all sides, even ones I don't usually agree with because then I get a different perspective instead of living in a bubble that only confirms what I already believe. And you need that broader view considering the amount of disinformation that's online.
The modern information age makes it more important to become more educated with history. There have been too much "alternative history" these last years. Things that have denied common sense and centuries of history.

What a pussy :messenger_tears_of_joy:
To be fair, what do you expect him to do? After the recent developments in EU and in the world, it has become apparent that EU does not have much power and within EU there is a fracture too. The german prime mininster has become especially humble after his trip to China. And depending what will happen in Iran, the whole South Asia region power balance will change too.

There is getting news from "the other side" and then there are those like The Duran, The New Atlas, Jeffrey Sachs, Scott Ritter and other, a circlejerk of stupidity. I have watched their videos before and it's just spouting views that see the West under the American Empire being the baddies and in decline, while the "Global South" with China and Russia or whatever at the forefront is rising. Their coverage of East Asian politics is completely laughable, be it Taiwan or Japan, they seriously have no idea what they're talking about and rely on a lesser regurgitation of PRC talking points.
There has been too much BRICS, new Axis etc. whatever talk. And in the end it turned into arabs joining forces with Israel, where even Cucker confused with Qatar being against Iran.

The reality is that history does not change much. China would never help properly because China has no real foreign policy aside trade. It has always been the case. That's why I expect all those pro-China alliances to fall apart eventually. USA itself has been too bound by their own alliances and "common global policy".

Considering is different from doing. And if they do decide to do it, I'll agree it's incredibly risky and has failed repeatedly in the past.
The problem is that there is not many alternatives - you need someone to take power. Like Julani in Syria - even if he was a part of ISIS, then went from pro-ISIS to pro-Al Qaeda fighting ISIS and Assad...At least Syria is stabilizing in some shape or form. Foreign troops are out of question - they won't be able to hold power for long. You need local powers there.
 
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