My analysis of Saturn's failure

hardly any moves
VF always had many more moves than Tekken, this tells us you don't know how to play the games. Unlike Tekken, you actually needed to spend time with a character to master him correctly. Tekken was always style over substance, but this is exactly what the new audience brought by Sony wanted, so Namco read that right.

Sports game all ended being great even if it was too late. All the 98 games by SEGA are very good, and the Dreamcast games are simply a continuation of them.
 
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I've been hearing this argument about Smash for 25 years and it never made any sense to me.

People call anything from Pole Position to Mario Kart to Gran Turismo a racing game but somehow Smash "isn't a fighting game" becuase the mechanics differ somewhat from Street Fighter, it's bizarre. But that's a different thread.

VF always had many more moves than Tekken, this tells us you don't know how to play the games. Unlike Tekken, you actually needed to spend time with a character to master him correctly. Tekken was always style over substance, but this is exactly what the new audience brought by Sony wanted, so Namco read that right.

Sports game all ended being great even if it was too late. All the 98 games by SEGA are very good, and the Dreamcast games are simply a continuation of them.
the Dreamcast baseball game with no fielding is bad, but the rest are good yes.
 
Many Saturn games have proper fade-in of the scenery, Sonic R being one of them.
Yes thank you i know, i have played the game. And the fade-in is horrible (but of course it's only on other consoles where this is an issue, on Saturn we don't care about that).

Sonic-R has the worst fade-in i have seen in videogames in general because it doesn't fade all the environments, you can still see the infinite VDP background as the environments fade on top of it. Which makes it look more weird and wrong.

Still, this footage lacks the fade-in altogether.

Seems like it's a re-release of the game in later consoles that removed the draw in.
 
Yes thank you i know, i have played the game. And the fade-in is horrible (but of course it's only on other consoles where this is an issue, on Saturn we don't care about that).

Sonic-R has the worst fade-in i have seen in videogames in general because it doesn't fade all the environments, you can still see the infinite VDP background as the environments fade on top of it. Which makes it look more weird and wrong.

Still, this footage lacks the fade-in altogether.

Seems like it's a re-release of the game in later consoles that removed the draw in.
In the real world, this fading effect was fine for the time and the console. Sonic R had a PC version with additional visual elements, and was released on the Sonic Gems collection.
 
VF always had many more moves than Tekken, this tells us you don't know how to play the games. Unlike Tekken, you actually needed to spend time with a character to master him correctly. Tekken was always style over substance, but this is exactly what the new audience brought by Sony wanted, so Namco read that right.

Sports game all ended being great even if it was too late. All the 98 games by SEGA are very good, and the Dreamcast games are simply a continuation of them.
If VF had more moves, it didnt show it because the games were so boring with players tapping each other doing the same moves over and over again. Hardly any characters too. And VF2 had a weird thing going on because when I played it, it seemed like the exact same sequence of fights. I remember when I played VF2, Lau would always be the first opponent. And the blonde girl would be second etc...

Nothing wrong with games having better graphics, sound and cut scenes. Those are part of the package when playing a game.

Sega Sports were mostly junk. I think they even only made one NFL game and one NHL game and they were getting F ratings in mags.
 
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In the real world, this fading effect was fine for the time and the console.
Nah, it always bothered me you can see the floor behind the fading environments. Pop-up/fade always has this look where objects materialize in front of you but in Sonic-R is far more noticeable and distracting because of that.

I rather have the normal fade-in from darkness or fog of other games at that time.
 
Nah, it always bothered me you can see the floor behind the fading environments. Pop-up/fade always has this look where objects materialize in front of you but in Sonic-R is far more noticeable and distracting because of that.

I rather have the normal fade-in from darkness or fog of other games at that time.
It's their choice of having an actual scenery rather than a completely blue/dark sky that bothers you. But the effect is clearly the best on the console and perfectly satisfactory for this generation.
 
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Ok, I thought it was fine. Not as good as NBA Action or Worldwide Soccer for sure.
NBA Action 98 reviews hard to find. But 6.8/10 on GS. Not good either.


Soccer 98 was so so too.


Only 98 sports game that was consistently reviewed well was WS 98.

 
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It's a shame that beat 'em ups practically died for a long time.

I really enjoyed Dynamite Cop and wondered what a 3D beat em up would be like with a bigger budget, it's a shame The Bouncer on PS2 was such a let down outside of graphics and we never got a Dreamcast port of SpikeOut.

Who knows, Streets of Rage 4 was great (as a 2D beat em up), maybe Streets of Rage Revolution will be the revival the genre needs.
I don't think even a 3D SOR would have sold well. That said SEGA really should have ported Golden Axe Revenge of Death Adder to the Saturn with multi tap support.
Good point.

Die Hard Arcade is the absolute blueprint on how you could translate scrollers to 3D, even on the limited 5th gen consoles. Its every bit as good as SoR i'd wager and it smokes the likes of Fighting Force. It also kind of shows Segas incompetence again, they could make SoR 4 and not even negotiate a deal with Core Design (Fighting Force was pitched as SoR4).

SoR 3 is Sega at its worst. The game is absolutely flawless... the JP version. For some reason they made the english version more frustrating, and put ugly color palettes on the cast. They made it uglier overall. And they neutered the storyline which was admittedly heavy for a SoR game (the JP version is about WW3 and massive bombings). Sega also didn't promote the game, and it was hard to find from the get go. I saw few stores carrying it. I ultimately bought a used copy.
Thanks. I thought the Jp version of Streets Of Rage 3 was the best in the Series but the 2D market was in decline even in the Arcades. I loved Die Hard Arcade and also SpikeOut on the Xbox doesn't get enough credit, in 4 player mode on LIVE it was some of the bets fun I had on OG Xbox .


All that said I so wished SEGA would have a double pack of Aribain Fights and Revenge Of Death Adder for the Saturn when SEGA brought out the Multi Tap for it
 
It's a shame that beat 'em ups practically died for a long time.

I really enjoyed Dynamite Cop and wondered what a 3D beat em up would be like with a bigger budget, it's a shame The Bouncer on PS2 was such a let down outside of graphics and we never got a Dreamcast port of SpikeOut.

Who knows, Streets of Rage 4 was great (as a 2D beat em up), maybe Streets of Rage Revolution will be the revival the genre needs.
The problem with those old school beat em ups is how shallow and repetitive they were.

If devs changed the genre so it's that still that kind of gameplay but made it more like a Metroidvania or Rogueish game with some randomized levels, enemies, item drops and add in some RPG-ish leveling up it would work wonders.

Somehow those games can add some variety while mainly focusing on shooting, sword slashing or some magic attack gameplay. But a more grounded beat em up like a Double Dragon or Final Fight has predictable levels.
 
NBA Action 98 reviews hard to find. But 6.8/10 on GS. Not good either.
It was developed by Visual Concept which would make the 2K games that were all reviewed extremely well.

Worldwide Soccer 98 is a game I played a lot and it was a very good game back then.
 
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I've been hearing this argument about Smash for 25 years and it never made any sense to me.

People call anything from Pole Position to Mario Kart to Gran Turismo a racing game but somehow Smash "isn't a fighting game" becuase the mechanics differ somewhat from Street Fighter, it's bizarre. But that's a different thread.
It is not just mechanics that do not line up, it is the rules dictating the winner and loser. It is the same kind of criteria that separates wrestling from fighting.

If VF had more moves, it didnt show it because the games were so boring with players tapping each other doing the same moves over and over again. Hardly any characters too. And VF2 had a weird thing going on because when I played it, it seemed like the exact same sequence of fights. I remember when I played VF2, Lau would always be the first opponent. And the blonde girl would be second etc...
That is funny considering half the characters are clones in the first two Tekkens have bugger all worth using combo-wise except sweeps, 10-hit strings, and jab juggles after launcher (first version of VF2 is also guilty of the latter unfortunately). Virtua Fighter in contrast has a myriad of variation in moves with utility in mind. The greatness of VF is in having responsive and reactive counters to every tactic. Early Tekken is about dialing in a sequence and hoping it connects first.

I agree that the arcade ladders in VF1 and 2 lack variation of most fighting games. I would also say the opponent AI of Virtua Fighter 2 is absolutely irredeemable garbage in the hall of shame right next to Mortal Kombat 2 (ARC). The first Virtua Fighter is a better prototype for its own franchise than the first two Tekkens are. Virtua Fighter 3 and Fighters Megamix are up there with Tekken 3 and Dead or Alive 2 as far as the quality of 3D fighting. They also have relatively large move lists.

The problem with those old school beat em ups is how shallow and repetitive they were.

If devs changed the genre so it's that still that kind of gameplay but made it more like a Metroidvania or Rogueish game with some randomized levels, enemies, item drops and add in some RPG-ish leveling up it would work wonders.

Somehow those games can add some variety while mainly focusing on shooting, sword slashing or some magic attack gameplay. But a more grounded beat em up like a Double Dragon or Final Fight has predictable levels.
That sounds cumbersome as ideally you have the whole polished tool set at your disposal from the start and it is only the difficulty of obstacles that increases. Length is not a strength of the genre but replayability is. The more you stretch it out the less replayable it is.
 
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