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[Elder Legend]

havent game like horizon forbidden west maximised the ps5 considering it cant do 60 fps at visual quality mode ?

Oh no baby what is you saying....

 

[DeepEnigma]

5+ years until the next gen might be a long enough time to get current ~1200-1500$ performance into console range, depending on the development in the semiconductor market ofc. A covid2 or chinese invasion of Taiwan would probably ruin that.
Ofc we should be at 200+tf in the PC realm at that time so "insane performance" is relative.

Imagine the size of those cards?

 

[REDRZA MWS]

W

Wait til you see ESBC.

Laugh all you want to but the footwork, body and head movement, and physics are all top notch. From a tiny developer I may add. So looking forward to this.

 

[squidilix]

With how weak and pathetic PS4 and Xbox One is looking these days the wizards over at the Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica still have the best looking games to date. The Last of Us Part II and God of War Ragnarok are very good examples of that.

Fix your post OP

 

[REDRZA MWS]

I miss Fight Night

Miss fight night too, champion is still great and BC on Xbox. But watching all the dev updates and gameplay updates and listening to community hands on this game is going to be ridiculous.

 

[vodka-bull]

Dude, PS5 released 2 years ago and it‘s still not sitting in store shelves. There won‘t be a PS6, it‘s gonna be an app, available on every smart tv and everything else will be streamed. And its launch will be somewhere around 2028.

 

[Valonquar]

We need more competition & innovation in cooling and power supplies if it keeps ramping up as much as it is though.

 

[David B]

We need more competition & innovation in cooling and power supplies if it keeps ramping up as much as it is though.

Than they will go to Apple with ARM Silicon processors. They go similar to RISC processing which was used for PowerPC as well as PowerPC for PS3. As we can see now, the ARM Silicon processors are way more cool than Intel and AMD, therefore Sony and Microsoft may make a decision to make a deal with Apple for next gen consoles in 2026 or 2027.

 

[DeceptiveAlarm]

Shit. Wait till you see next next generation.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Seeing as Sony and Microsoft have double the teraflop power from PS4 Pro to PS5 and Xbox One X to Xbox Series X, they will probably double up again of course. Which means PS6 will be 20 teraflops and Xbox Ultimate be 24 teraflops. It's not about what graphics cards can do in PCs, in consoles it's just about doubling up the processing power every 7 years with a new console release. They each have 8 core CPUs now, so what than 10 or 12 in 2027 release? I bet they again will go with the cheaper to get parts from AMD of course. Intel and Nvidia keep holding up high prices, for what reason who the hell knows. But AMD is cheaper for PC builders, pre-made systems from Dell, HP, Lenovo and tons of others and also in business market buys for big offices. Right now I'm betting that next gen consoles will start at $600 price point because of the U.S. economy is getting worse and the federal reserve keeps uping the price of everything. I just watched the early news show and the prices of cars to groceries to electricity bills is all going up already at the end of 2022 already. If Microsoft and Sony put them at real prices it would be $1000 to $1500 of course. But we all know they sell consoles at a big loss and make up for it in sales of there games, Xbox Live Gold service, PlayStation Plus service, and all the buys of there accessories as well. I'd talk about government issues in this as well but NeoGAF killed those forums over a year ago, so we better not touch that subject.

The console makers only take a $50-$100 loss per unit sold I thought ...

 

[ViciousAgenda]

Will there be next gen consoles?

 

[David B]

The console makers only take a $50-$100 loss per unit sold I thought ...

They take way more loss than that. Similar speced PS5 costs $1200 at the least in PC. Therefore they are taking at least a $500 to $700 loss.

 

[jhjfss]

Will there be next gen consoles?

100 TF for 4k120 + ultra settings + full raytracing

 

[DeepEnigma]

100 TF for 4k120 + ultra settings + full raytracing

All for $399/$499 and under 300watts to boot.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

They take way more loss than that. Similar speced PS5 costs $1200 at the least in PC. Therefore they are taking at least a $500 to $700 loss.

Ok ...maybe my $50-$100 loss was a little low but there's no WAY they're taking THAT much of a loss!

 

[jhjfss]

All for $399/$499 and under 300watts to boot.

in 2028? YES!

 

[DeepEnigma]

in 2028? YES!

 

[onnextflix5]

Both price and power consumption have increased for the consoles this generation as well. The launch PS4 was $399 and used around 150w for intensive games. The PS5 is $499 and uses 220w for intensive games.

A PS6 for $699 and using up to 280w is not outside the realm of possibility. Liquid metal plus vapor chamber cooling should be enough to take care of the heat. Assuming 2028 the consoles will be on 2nm by then as well.

Maybe 100 TFLOP is a bit much, but I'd wager 60 TFLOP plus should be achievable.

699 no chance. 599 for disc and 499 for digital is the best we can hope for. No one knows what tech is gonna look like in 5-6 years time. There could be big leaps in graphics or there might be stagnation. No one knows

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Do people not realize that every gen always takes 2-3 years for old gen to fade away? This is like this every generation lol. PS3 didn't get good until 2008-2009 and neither did the PS4 until 2015/2016...

Thing is we haven’t had that next gen “wow” from any game yet… that launch game that looks leaps above previous gen…The Killzone Shadowfall Moment…Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Mario 64 (N64) etc… The Matrix Awakens is the big leap.. (HFW, Ratchet, Spiderman MM, TLOU I Remake are honorable mentions)

 

[I Master l]

699 no chance. 599 for disc and 499 for digital is the best we can hope for. No one knows what tech is gonna look like in 5-6 years time. There could be big leaps in graphics or there might be stagnation. No one knows

Xbox chief architect said Series X will still cost more than 300$ to make until the end of the generation
I genuinely believe next gen consoles will cost 700-800 $ if not more if we count the inflation

 

[Y0ssarian]

Insane how little games they have

 

[Kdad]

All this power and we still have shit immersion....stop pushing pixels, start pushing story and reality (more shit on the screen, more npc, more AI, every pixel has real world physics, go anywhere etc etc.

Otherwise is polishing shit I've been playing since PS2 days.

 

[Elder Legend]

Thing is we haven’t had that next gen “wow” from any game yet… that launch game that looks leaps above previous gen…The Killzone Shadowfall Moment…Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Mario 64 (N64) etc… The Matrix Awakens is the big leap.. (HFW, Ratchet, Spiderman MM, TLOU I Remake are honorable mentions)

I get what you are saying - but I felt like Demon's Souls was good enough at least for early gen impressions and the UE5 demos too.

I wouldn't count HFW, Spiderman MM or TLOU Remake. HFW is a cross-gen game. TLOU Remake is almost a decade old game and looks tiny bit better than TLOU 2. Spiderman MM is meh wasn't that corss-gen too?

Wait for the new Naughty Dog IP that is only running on the PS5 and Gears 6 from The Coalition for the Xbox.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I played. Read my post again.
The tech can go much further but the jumps in real-time results are getting smaller.
After all of a character is looking like a real person, it’s not going to get much better. Only some details.

What characters look photo realistic? Callisto Protocol comes close

 

[rofif]

What characters look photo realistic? Callisto Protocol comes close

Have not seen anything that good from Callisto protocol yet.
Death stranding and tlou2 characters look photo realistic

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

When are the next consoles supposed to come out anyways? If we follow the 7-8 year gap between PS3 -> PS4 -> PS5 and 360 -> XBox One -> Series X/S then we still have 5 years left before a new console from Sony or Microsoft. Switch 2 is probably due to come out soon though, but it's still selling very well so Nintendo might as well wait.

 

[samoilaaa]

Oh no baby what is you saying....

sorry , that was a genuine question , i dont know how this stuff works really

 

[tusharngf]

When are the next consoles supposed to come out anyways? If we follow the 7-8 year gap between PS3 -> PS4 -> PS5 and 360 -> XBox One -> Series X/S then we still have 5 years left before a new console from Sony or Microsoft. Switch 2 is probably due to come out soon though, but it's still selling very well so Nintendo might as well wait.

7yrs for new cycle and 10yrs for full cross gen support. We are still stuck with xbox one which has only 1.4TF of power. This cross gen is killing all the fun. PC guys are already getting 90-100 TF cards but they are useless as developers are still making games for last gen consoles.

 

[Hohenheim]

Next gen consoles will probably (as usual) be a nice step up for those who don't play games on relatively new PC tech.

 

[Marvel14]

This is what I’ve been saying…my predictions have been true since 2014…I have a mega thread on ResetEra and a twin thread here…

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/graphical-fidelity-i-expect-this-gen.1623441/

I expect next gen consoles to be 50 to 60 TFLOPS…just look at TLOU II on PS4 (One of the best looking games ever made after TLOU I Remake) 1.84 TFLOPS…PS5 is ~10 TFLOPS… yeah…look at the Matrix awakens demo…now look at the two real time unity demos…

My bold prediction is that next gen will be the last where graphical leaps are the primary indicator of a new generation. Going forward it will be about AI, physics and other immersion metrics.

The only exception to this rule might be VR.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Have not seen anything that good from Callisto protocol yet.
Death stranding and tlou2 characters look photo realistic

https://www.techradar.com/news/the-...-so-lifelike-even-the-eyeballs-are-ray-traced

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Next gen consoles will probably (as usual) be a nice step up for those who don't play games on relatively new PC tech.

Sometimes better…first party devs plus closed system equals max performance Aka TLOU II…

 

[DenchDeckard]

My problem with this is, people keep saying we have no idea what ps5 or xbox can do due to current gen, but we do have a good idea. Games like plagues tale, forspoken etc are current gen only aren't they?

Or am I mixed up?

These consoles can't do much more than what they are currently doing imo.

Isn't the last of us 1 remake doing pretty much the best of what naughty dog can currently do via textures, models etc on ps5? And it's not even locking its framerate.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

My problem with this is, people keep saying we have no idea what ps5 or xbox can do due to current gen, but we do have a good idea. Games like plagues tale, forspoken etc are current gen only aren't they?

Or am I mixed up?

These consoles can't do much more than what they are currently doing imo.

You are seeing games using old engines…UE5 is next gen…look at the Matrix Awakens…

 

[DenchDeckard]

You are seeing games using old engines…UE5 is next gen…look at the Matrix Awakens…

I added last of us 1 remake, isn't that using naughty dogs latest iteration of tech for ps5?

Hardly any def is going to make engines from the ground up like epic can. Someone's everyone move to unreal engine 5 to see something next gen at barely 30 fps?

Matrix awakens looked OK when playing and was like 20fps...

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I added last of us 1 remake, isn't that using naughty dogs latest iteration of tech for ps5?

No it started as a side project…it wasn’t done by all of the main team…its using an updated engine but not the next gen engine…a totally dedicated Naughty Dog game might look like the Matrix Awakens…

https://mobilesyrup.com/2022/08/31/...y-dog-matthew-gallant-shaun-escayg-interview/

 

[DenchDeckard]

No it started as a side project…it wasn’t done by all of the main team…its using an updated engine but not the next gen engine…a totally dedicated Naughty Dog game might look like the Matrix Awakens…

https://mobilesyrup.com/2022/08/31/...y-dog-matthew-gallant-shaun-escayg-interview/

OK, let's see how factions looks next year then. I don't expect a huge step up over last of us 1 remake.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Power draw will mandate Flops, so they just need to make them new consoles stackable. Linking two together for twice the performance.

 

[Robb]

I’m sure the hardware will be great but if this gen is any indication, next-gen will be cross-gen for +3 years before we get to the point where devs will utilize it.

It’s kinda difficult for me to get excited about that.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Feels crazy to even talk about next gen consoles when we are still mostly playing uprezzed PS4 games… Damn…

 

[01011001]

I added last of us 1 remake, isn't that using naughty dogs latest iteration of tech for ps5?

no it just uses TLOU2's engine

 

[DenchDeckard]

no it just uses TLOU2's engine

But it's modified right? There's no way naughty dog starts from scratch on ps5.

 

[Banjo64]

A 4x jump in raw power is probably fair so 40-48tf for the big boys and 16ish for the S. Efficiency gains tho.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I hope a x10 jump can be made again, we are a good six years away from that and Nvidia already launching a card that is just that.

 

[RoadHazard]

Have not seen anything that good from Callisto protocol yet.
Death stranding and tlou2 characters look photo realistic

Absolutely not. They look "lifelike", but nowhere near photorealistic. That would mean you can't tell if you're looking at a game or a video/photo of the real world, and I would say the only thing that has achieved that so far is some parts of the Matrix demo. Definitely not the games you mention (or any actual game released so far).

 

[thelurkinghorror]

All this power for the samey third action games… we don’t need more teraflops right now but devolpers who dream big, and free to experiment with new gameplay ideas.

The next revolution will come from machine learning

 

[Louay]

we will see it in 2030 if we are alive.

 

[BlackTron]

They take way more loss than that. Similar speced PS5 costs $1200 at the least in PC. Therefore they are taking at least a $500 to $700 loss.

That's not how this works. Just because you know math doesn't mean you know how much money Sony is shedding.

I need to stop waking up and checking internet forums. A wall of people acting like they know what they are talking about is an aggravating way to get the day started.

 

[nominedomine]

Next gen is going to be less exciting than this one. This time we at least got the jump from HDD to SSD.

Teraflops are the least exciting thing about a new gen, most devs will probably waste most of it on RT.

It's pretty obvious that current gen hardware isn't what is holding gamedevs back right now.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Next gen is going to be less exciting than this one. This time we at least got the jump from HDD to SSD.

Teraflops are the least exciting thing about a new gen, most devs will probably waste most of it on RT.

It's pretty obvious that current gen hardware isn't what is holding gamedevs back right now.

I think that it has the potential to be a big big jump if they do not rush it out: big focus on strong ML acceleration and optimisation of RT (could be a PS1 to PS2 moment overall).

With strong ML acceleration they could lower the amount of native frames they render and the resolution they render at (think DLSS 3.0 and evolutions of it) which would lower bandwidth and processing costs massively compared to targeting >60 FPS and 4K resolutions natively.

On top of that more and more advanced denoising could lower the actual RT costs (less rays to cast) and there is quite a lot the current GPU’s are still not able to accelerate RT wise:

• Level 0 – Legacy Solutions
• Level 1 – Software on Traditional GPUs
• Level 2 – Ray/Box and Ray/Tri Testers in Hardware
• Level 3 – Bounding Volume Hierarchy (BVH) Processing in Hardware
• Level 4 – BVH Processing with Coherency Sorting in Hardware
• Level 5 – Coherent BVH Processing with Scene Hierarchy Generator in Hardware

The key point that comes across when reading the detail is that as we move up each level there is an increased focus on efficiency. The market however does not always move based on efficiency. For example, the recently released second-generation ray tracing-capable desktop PC hardware has increased performance by simply providing more ray tracing processing – which naturally requires more silicon area and more power. However, this brute force approach is not a viable option for solutions that need to operate within a power budget, such as mobile.

Consoles are at Level 2 now, nVIDIA may be at Level 3, IMG Tech / PowerVR claimed they had a Level 4 mobile solution.

Introducing the Ray Tracing Levels System – and what it will mean for gaming - Imagination

Not all ray tracing solutions are created equal. Learn about the Ray Tracing Levels System here.

blog.imaginationtech.com