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Next Gen Consoles Will Be Absolutely Insane.
- Thread starter Elder Legend
- Start date
- Opinion Clickbait
PeteBull
Member
Just one correction here, actual real powergap between current strongest gpus and consoles, if u give both ps5 and xss benefit of the doubt/optimalisation/coding to the metal- even then most of the fanboys preach they are around rtx 2080, and thats what this gpu looks vs top dogs(got 3080ti here, so can attest to this, but u can just check youtube for multitude of tests and get same/similar conclusions)
www.techpowerup.com
If on the other hand u assume avg scenario with similar optimalisation/no bad pc port, those consoles are more around rx 5700xt https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-5700-xt.c3339 thats what u can expect for multiplats, not for first/2nd party that can focus especially on consoles.
Bit offtopic but not really- imho we can expect ps5pr0 / xbox series Z in 2024-2025 with at least 20TF of genuine power and stronger cpu too, at least 30% stronger since current cpu's are zen2, so even if midrange refresh gets zen4 thats 30-40% faster ipc+clocks.
Here quick and dirty vid comparing zen2 3800x(same archi as ps5/xbox series x/s) vs zen3 5800x, vs zen4 7700x( newest, same 8core/16threads cpu for fair comparision).
Basically those machines will be strong enough to give us fidelity 4k mode but in actual 60fps stable, instead of like now where console players gotta usually pick their poison- 60fps or lower res/worse graphics, so basically it will be marketed as no compromises
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Specs
NVIDIA TU104, 1710 MHz, 2944 Cores, 184 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 8192 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit
If on the other hand u assume avg scenario with similar optimalisation/no bad pc port, those consoles are more around rx 5700xt https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-5700-xt.c3339 thats what u can expect for multiplats, not for first/2nd party that can focus especially on consoles.
Bit offtopic but not really- imho we can expect ps5pr0 / xbox series Z in 2024-2025 with at least 20TF of genuine power and stronger cpu too, at least 30% stronger since current cpu's are zen2, so even if midrange refresh gets zen4 thats 30-40% faster ipc+clocks.
Here quick and dirty vid comparing zen2 3800x(same archi as ps5/xbox series x/s) vs zen3 5800x, vs zen4 7700x( newest, same 8core/16threads cpu for fair comparision).
Basically those machines will be strong enough to give us fidelity 4k mode but in actual 60fps stable, instead of like now where console players gotta usually pick their poison- 60fps or lower res/worse graphics, so basically it will be marketed as no compromises
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Just one correction here, actual real powergap between current strongest gpus and consoles, if u give both ps5 and xss benefit of the doubt/optimalisation/coding to the metal- even then most of the fanboys preach they are around rtx 2080, and thats what this gpu looks vs top dogs(got 3080ti here, so can attest to this, but u can just check youtube for multitude of tests and get same/similar conclusions)
[/URL]
If on the other hand u assume avg scenario with similar optimalisation/no bad pc port, those consoles are more around rx 5700xt https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-5700-xt.c3339 thats what u can expect for multiplats, not for first/2nd party that can focus especially on consoles.
Bit offtopic but not really- imho we can expect ps5pr0 / xbox series Z in 2024-2025 with at least 20TF of genuine power and stronger cpu too, at least 30% stronger since current cpu's are zen2, so even if midrange refresh gets zen4 thats 30-40% faster ipc+clocks.
Here quick and dirty vid comparing zen2 3800x(same archi as ps5/xbox series x/s) vs zen3 5800x, vs zen4 7700x( newest, same 8core/16threads cpu for fair comparision).
Basically those machines will be strong enough to give us fidelity 4k mode but in actual 60fps stable, instead of like now where console players gotta usually pick their poison- 60fps or lower res/worse graphics, so basically it will be marketed as no compromises
Truth- those upgrades need to happen
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
There will be a 20TFLOP PS5 Pro in late 2024. PS6 will be 40TFLOP late 2028. Same for Xbox Series XX 24TFLOP late 2024. XBOX 5 will be 50TFLOP late 2028.
The Pro / X will have 30% more CPU performance and an extra 8GB of RAM, maybe larger SSD's.
The Pro / X will have 30% more CPU performance and an extra 8GB of RAM, maybe larger SSD's.
Elder Legend
Banned
I am bookmarking this because of how completely incorrect this is come 2028 so I can laugh at it afterwards.
tusharngf
Member
Depends on advanced nodes. We might get more powerful machines as well. One thing that can change is tdp value. Who knows we might see 400w consoles in the future.
Banjo64
cumsessed
What’s the Series SS going to be?
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
8TFLOP. They can have twice the silicon for same price come late '24
Banjo64
cumsessed
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Different economy now so depends if they want to make money on it but I think S was always a loss leading gamepass delivery system.For £249 again?
Dr_Salt
Banned
and we will still be getting crossgen games.
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EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Long ways until next gen, we see last gen still being talked about.
YOU PC BRO?!
Gold Member
Playstation console performance increases
*Will start with PS2 as PS1 is difficult to calculate - some of these calculations are ballpark as various architectures are difficult to quantify
PS2 6.2 GFLOPS
PS3 230 GFLOPS (37X compared to PS2)
PS4 1.84 TFLOPS (8X compared to PS3)
PS4 Pro 4.19 TFLOPS (2.27X compared to PS4; 18.2X compared to PS3)
PS5 10.28 TFLOPS (5.58X compared to PS4; 2.45X compared to PS4 Pro)
From the above it looks like the performance improvement per generation when measured as multiples of GPU TFLOPS from previous generation device is steadily decreasing.
37 => 8 => 5.6 => 4?
Current gen consoles typically sit <200W during gameplay. This will increase but we wouldn't feasibly be looking at more than 300W in next generation systems.
It seems likely if there is a PS5 Pro device that Sony will double the GPU compute via butterfly similar to what they did with the PS4 Pro. This was necessary due to back compatibility. In theory they could triple or quadruple the compute but that would be unfeasible for a mid-gen device. If so then a potential PS5 Pro would sit at ~20.56+ TFLOPS depending on clocks.
For the PS6 if we take a ballpark 4-5.6X performance increase from the previous generation it will be somewhere around 41.12 - 57.57 TFLOPS. Of course technologies like MCM that we will see shortly in the AMD 7000 may change the landscape entirely. Regardless, if I had to bet on a number for a next generation Playstation console I would expect ~50 TFLOPS in raw compute.
*Will start with PS2 as PS1 is difficult to calculate - some of these calculations are ballpark as various architectures are difficult to quantify
PS2 6.2 GFLOPS
PS3 230 GFLOPS (37X compared to PS2)
PS4 1.84 TFLOPS (8X compared to PS3)
PS4 Pro 4.19 TFLOPS (2.27X compared to PS4; 18.2X compared to PS3)
PS5 10.28 TFLOPS (5.58X compared to PS4; 2.45X compared to PS4 Pro)
From the above it looks like the performance improvement per generation when measured as multiples of GPU TFLOPS from previous generation device is steadily decreasing.
37 => 8 => 5.6 => 4?
Current gen consoles typically sit <200W during gameplay. This will increase but we wouldn't feasibly be looking at more than 300W in next generation systems.
It seems likely if there is a PS5 Pro device that Sony will double the GPU compute via butterfly similar to what they did with the PS4 Pro. This was necessary due to back compatibility. In theory they could triple or quadruple the compute but that would be unfeasible for a mid-gen device. If so then a potential PS5 Pro would sit at ~20.56+ TFLOPS depending on clocks.
For the PS6 if we take a ballpark 4-5.6X performance increase from the previous generation it will be somewhere around 41.12 - 57.57 TFLOPS. Of course technologies like MCM that we will see shortly in the AMD 7000 may change the landscape entirely. Regardless, if I had to bet on a number for a next generation Playstation console I would expect ~50 TFLOPS in raw compute.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
Moore's Law is dead bro. There is a need for Pro consoles so the 60 fps people can't complain but they will be paying more.
Definitely going to be another couple years to get devs off crossgen.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Thats like saying bioshock infinite remastered maximised last gen because it could not do higher then 1080p 60fps.
The new generation is mainly about games being made with new technologies and this time the fundimental shift to SSD's.
Sosokrates
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Really? Spiderman 2 and ms exclusives are ditching last gen in 23
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Maybe there wont be a "next gen" and xsx will become the new base.
I mean if people are thinking next gen is going to about 40-50tflops xsx might cut it for a base model.
AutumnLeaves
Member
Meh...graphics, graphics, graphics.
Hope there's more to it than that. Such as better AI; better interaction with the world, by the main character and others; better weather and it affecting the world; etc...
And different gameplay design...or something new with an old game design.
Hope there's more to it than that. Such as better AI; better interaction with the world, by the main character and others; better weather and it affecting the world; etc...
And different gameplay design...or something new with an old game design.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Just one correction here, actual real powergap between current strongest gpus and consoles, if u give both ps5 and xss benefit of the doubt/optimalisation/coding to the metal- even then most of the fanboys preach they are around rtx 2080, and thats what this gpu looks vs top dogs(got 3080ti here, so can attest to this, but u can just check youtube for multitude of tests and get same/similar conclusions)
[/URL][/URL]
If on the other hand u assume avg scenario with similar optimalisation/no bad pc port, those consoles are more around rx 5700xt https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-5700-xt.c3339 thats what u can expect for multiplats, not for first/2nd party that can focus especially on consoles.
Bit offtopic but not really- imho we can expect ps5pr0 / xbox series Z in 2024-2025 with at least 20TF of genuine power and stronger cpu too, at least 30% stronger since current cpu's are zen2, so even if midrange refresh gets zen4 thats 30-40% faster ipc+clocks.
Here quick and dirty vid comparing zen2 3800x(same archi as ps5/xbox series x/s) vs zen3 5800x, vs zen4 7700x( newest, same 8core/16threads cpu for fair comparision).
Basically those machines will be strong enough to give us fidelity 4k mode but in actual 60fps stable, instead of like now where console players gotta usually pick their poison- 60fps or lower res/worse graphics, so basically it will be marketed as no compromises
Going from 1440p reconstructed to native 4k is so not worth the upgrade in my opinion. Its like upgrading from a ps4 pro to an xbox 1x.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
It will be very similar to what a 10-12tf baseline would be based on how the Matrix demo performs.
Crayon
Member
That's because there is no 10-12 tf baseline.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Well considering the ps5 and xsx versions of the Matrix demo struggle, how could they be better?
People can keep on saying the S will hold visual improvements back but its an irelevent point because theres no way to confirm just how much difference the series S's existence will make.
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OuterLimits
Member
With the current economic woes occurring across the globe(and likely to get worse) this console generation is going to last a very, very long time. Yeah, I'm sure a Switch 2 will happen somewhat soonish, but PS6, Xbox will be many years most likely.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Pro / X / Switch OLED showed there's a market of 20+ million people who will pay top dollar for premium devices just like in every electronics market. PS5 / Series Slim will come at the same time with a small price cut. They can sell the same person / family multiple devices now, that's one of the reasons Switch has sold so many units.
TrebleShot
Member
arkhamguy123
Banned
PS5 exclusives can use a 10.3TF baseline. If the matrix demo was off of 4tf, imagine PS5 only games.
PeteBull
Member
stadia gonna get a reboot or something?
Crayon
Member
That would be for the best. Cross fingers they don't drag it down for their pc releases! Most pcs on steam are below that spec.
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
they tried pushing 4k on consoles clearly better suited for 1440p. they will do the same for 8k lmao
TheGecko
Banned
What you gonna do when the "nex gen" systems don't come. All there is are streaming platforms. All developers do is make games for said platforms?stadia gonna get a reboot or something?
Honestly some of you lot have shit for brains. You can't see the guy with a gun in the woods, but he's there and he's coming.
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I hope so OP. For now (current ge ) i still consider both consoles as midgen. Also a mid pc hardware is already better then both. Feels like they were too soon, as the hw wasnt a big step forward enough. If we look at xbox one vs xbox one x. Its like 1tflops vs the 6 tflops. Yet the difference are not that huge between those. I dont consider more fps or higher resolution as a next step in visuals. Its more the lightning that is important. We are not near i love robots gfx (which i dont expect yet) But this gen in terms of gfx is disappointed, and not a little. (Coming from someone that has experience each gen starting even before nes consoles. Lets wait and see...
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
To be fair, the ps5 and xbox series have barley scratched the surface on what they can do. We have only had a handfull of current gen games. None of which are really doing much new from a visual or design standpoint.
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Tqaulity
Member
THIS! I still can't believe people are complaining about this generation of console hardware which is clearly better (and more balanced) than any before. I think people's expectations are just completely out of whack or folks are just completely taking for granted what these machines have to offer. Yes the reality is the vast majority of game and game engines we're playing today are 10+ years old and not designed around the new hardware capabilities (hence the Remaster/Remake age of Video Games). The new engines will take time but are coming...
Think about it...5 years ago (when the PS4 Pro and OneX were still relatively new) if someone posted on THIS forum and said that the next generation of consoles will have:
- Stable near locked 60fps be the rule...not the exception (people forget that for every console generation in the 3D era from PS1 to PS4, consistent 60fps performance was just a pipedream and last gen with PS4/XB1 30fps was the standard for nearly everything)
- Nearly 100 games overall (first 2 years) with 120fps support (not a niche feature at all like 1080p was in the X360/Ps3 generation)
- Real time ray tracing realized in a game console! (the pipe dream from the past 3 decades. AND several games doing it at 60FPS!)
- State of Art NVME SSDs with 50-100x the speeds of last gen
- Near instant loading and game switching (some cases faster than the cartridge consoles)
- Removal of frame caps for unlocking framerates (gaining back up to 80% perf in some cases) with full VRR support
- Native 4K rendering at 30+fps / Dynamic 4K/60fps in a large percentage of titles
I think people get so caught up in the ultra level PC hardware and use that as a reference when you really need to compare to previous consoles to see and appreciate what's on offer here. It's pretty clear that from a hardware design perspective, PS5 and Xbox Series consoles are the best both companies have delivered to date and they should be commended for it. We have games running at 4K resolution with 120fps support and real time ray tracing with <3 sec load times...and are complaining
. It's pretty sad really. I'm sure Microsoft and Sony knows that they will never please everyone and the internet can be vicious. But I for one will not be taking their efforts for granted
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Very good points.THIS! I still can't believe people are complaining about this generation of console hardware which is clearly better (and more balanced) than any before. I think people's expectations are just completely out of whack or folks are just completely taking for granted what these machines have to offer. Yes the reality is the vast majority of game and game engines we're playing today are 10+ years old and not designed around the new hardware capabilities (hence the Remaster/Remake age of Video Games). The new engines will take time but are coming...
Think about it...5 years ago (when the PS4 Pro and OneX were still relatively new) if someone posted on THIS forum and said that the next generation of consoles will have:
EVERYONE here would have laughed and completed discounted the possibility of this being true. And that is what we've had in these first 2 years. What we are still waiting on are the real next gen features like virtualized geometry, micropolygon acceleration, mesh shading, dynamic global illumination, enhanced ray tracing, improved physics and AI, new level designs based on fast I/O streaming, fast traversal, no LODs, and more.
- Stable near locked 60fps be the rule...not the exception (people forget that for every console generation in the 3D era from PS1 to PS4, consistent 60fps performance was just a pipedream and last gen with PS4/XB1 30fps was the standard for nearly everything)
- Nearly 100 games overall (first 2 years) with 120fps support (not a niche feature at all like 1080p was in the X360/Ps3 generation)
- Real time ray tracing realized in a game console! (the pipe dream from the past 3 decades. AND several games doing it at 60FPS!)
- State of Art NVME SSDs with 50-100x the speeds of last gen
- Near instant loading and game switching (some cases faster than the cartridge consoles)
- Removal of frame caps for unlocking framerates (gaining back up to 80% perf in some cases) with full VRR support
- Native 4K rendering at 30+fps / Dynamic 4K/60fps in a large percentage of titles
I think people get so caught up in the ultra level PC hardware and use that as a reference when you really need to compare to previous consoles to see and appreciate what's on offer here. It's pretty clear that from a hardware design perspective, PS5 and Xbox Series consoles are the best both companies have delivered to date and they should be commended for it. We have games running at 4K resolution with 120fps support and real time ray tracing with <3 sec load times...and are complaining
I think a good analogy is that games minus a few are like bioshock remastered last gen, we still have not got this gen DOOM 2016 or UC4 etc.
For as impressive as games like ratchet + clank are its still seems very much brute forcing PS4 tools and tech, only like 20-40% of the ssd bandwidth is being utilised, theres no new micro polygon tech like nanite, no realtime global illumination like lumen and primitive shaders are not being used
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Lmao…the demo is massively downgraded on the S…
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Lol and its far better on xsx + ps5..
But the point is the seriesS's existence does not seem to be hampering the ps5+xsx versions because they also have limits and frame dips.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Well it isn’t optimized tbh…but the S version is bad compared…this is year one into the gen and devs are already having issues with the S…I always disliked it…
https://www.axios.com/2021/12/13/epic-games-graphics-matrix
- “Epic’s chief technology officer Kim Libreri told Axios the powerful PS5 and Xbox Series X run the demo well. "There are some things on one console that are better than our other console, but overall it's pretty much the same experience." Getting it to run on the weaker Series S "was a little bit scary," he said, but it runs nicely there, too.”
EDIT:
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
No need to dislike it, Games would look practically the same on ps5 + xsx even if the seriesS didnt exist.
The "seriesS is gonna hold back" people never give specific examples.
Game engines for the last 10yrs have been very scalable, there are 1000s of examples of this.
And we will see further examples of this when we see PS5 exclusives playable on a steamdeck.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Lol I just posted examples…
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
And what.. what i said in my reply doesn't exist?
They say the seriesS is problematic, but in what way?, What would that mean for games? Im sure there will be problematic things on xsx and ps5 which devs encounter.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Did you even read the articles? They explain memory is a major bottle neck..
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I dunno man and I'm biased towards wanting to believe these consoles are great because I have them both and am not in a position to afford a high end PC. A lot of the things you listed are great features but consoles are going to fall so far behind the curve as the gen goes on. Maybe Unreal 5 will start finally bringing those advancements in graphics and surely engines will improve but I've bought so many games this gen and a lot of them struggle. 1440p/60 in most games even last gen upgrades. The consoles don't have the brute force to run many (any?) of them at Ultra, which is what I was expecting for last gen upgraded games and for most cross gen stuff.THIS! I still can't believe people are complaining about this generation of console hardware which is clearly better (and more balanced) than any before. I think people's expectations are just completely out of whack or folks are just completely taking for granted what these machines have to offer. Yes the reality is the vast majority of game and game engines we're playing today are 10+ years old and not designed around the new hardware capabilities (hence the Remaster/Remake age of Video Games). The new engines will take time but are coming...
Think about it...5 years ago (when the PS4 Pro and OneX were still relatively new) if someone posted on THIS forum and said that the next generation of consoles will have:
EVERYONE here would have laughed and completed discounted the possibility of this being true. And that is what we've had in these first 2 years. What we are still waiting on are the real next gen features like virtualized geometry, micropolygon acceleration, mesh shading, dynamic global illumination, enhanced ray tracing, improved physics and AI, new level designs based on fast I/O streaming, fast traversal, no LODs, and more.
- Stable near locked 60fps be the rule...not the exception (people forget that for every console generation in the 3D era from PS1 to PS4, consistent 60fps performance was just a pipedream and last gen with PS4/XB1 30fps was the standard for nearly everything)
- Nearly 100 games overall (first 2 years) with 120fps support (not a niche feature at all like 1080p was in the X360/Ps3 generation)
- Real time ray tracing realized in a game console! (the pipe dream from the past 3 decades. AND several games doing it at 60FPS!)
- State of Art NVME SSDs with 50-100x the speeds of last gen
- Near instant loading and game switching (some cases faster than the cartridge consoles)
- Removal of frame caps for unlocking framerates (gaining back up to 80% perf in some cases) with full VRR support
- Native 4K rendering at 30+fps / Dynamic 4K/60fps in a large percentage of titles
I think people get so caught up in the ultra level PC hardware and use that as a reference when you really need to compare to previous consoles to see and appreciate what's on offer here. It's pretty clear that from a hardware design perspective, PS5 and Xbox Series consoles are the best both companies have delivered to date and they should be commended for it. We have games running at 4K resolution with 120fps support and real time ray tracing with <3 sec load times...and are complaining
The Ray Tracing seems to just be plain bad. Only reflections and low res ones at that. With the exception of Metro Exodus, Ratchet and Miles Morales anytime a game is moderately demanding (cyberpunk, gt7, watch dogs legion and control) and they try to add RT the results disappoint-30 fps with added input lag and low res reflections or some excuse for RT like cyberpunk). I'm so disappointed with Control and Cyberpunk in particular considering how long they spent on it and how much Remedy charged, respectively.
Of course these consoles are "the best they've put out". The ps3 was the best they put put. The ps4 was the best. The Xb1x was the best. It's a new generation. VRR I don't see as proof of how powerful they are it's just a nice new tech and quality of life feature. 120 fps is great but they have to turn settings way down. The load times are fantastic bit the SSD is totally unproven still in terms of its effect on graphics. All we've seen that hints at that possibility is Matrix. I need more proof than one demo.
Listen, you could very well turn out to be correct and that when Unreal 5 and other new engines come out that are specifically designed around the SSD and other new features of RDNA 2, it'll put all our concerns to rest but as it stands when it comes to pure brute force compute power? I'm not seeing it.
Is a console that relies on the latest engine's in order to show off its true capabilities but that can't run games built on old engines at max settings and 60 fps really all that amazing?
I could list out all the remasters of old games now that are now running natively on ps5/sx that are only 1440p/60 with kinda middling graphical settings. I could understand it more if these games were all cranked up to Ultra but they're not.. So the brute force power is clearly not there with these consoles. I'll save you from having to see this list but let's just say it's long. I could understand developer "laziness" as a factor in a few of them but again there are so many.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
But dont elaborate on what that means for games. And they said the memory would be problematic or "an issue" not a bottle neck.
This is why these initial statements dont mean anything because all they say is that seriesS is problematic. So keep on basing your opinion on a very general and early set of statements.
I mean, even if you were correct the games design would not be different, maybe we would see slightly more particles or foam on water if the seriesS ddnt exist, but that would probably drive resolution down a bit, soooo who gives a fuck by such a trivial thing. Budget and manpower us going to limit games more then the seriesS ever could.
Some people seem to think because of the seriesS we wont get complex fluid simulations or something else visually impressive. Thats just not how technology and game engines works these days. You double the resolution and increase some settings and you're not going to have this huge abundance of rendering budget and memory left.
Just look at the switch, it was more gimped compared to the x1 + ps4 then the SeriesS is compared to the ps5+xsx but it still managed some gen8 games.
From a developers perspective they wont like the seriesS because they always want more. But I dont think they mean what you think they mean. GTA6, FABLE, Resident evil next gen, and other multiplats are not going to be vastly inferior because of the SeriesS, the seriesS is designed in a way where this wont be the case.
I mean just please tell me what kind of visual or design implementations would be superior in games if the seriesS didnt exist?
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