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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Darius87

Member
What areas? Real time graphics have ample room for improvement
3D rendering is constantly evolving, new hardware enables new effects and techniques
i've should have said approaching not hiting, that's what i wantet to say in first place.
actually some fire effects look almost photo real in some games, car models also kind a there, there's probably more things that i missed.
SinfulSimpleImperatorangel-size_restricted.gif

tumblr_oogizkjsWY1vya768o7_500.png

You are missing the point adding geometry complexity endlesly without adding detail wont improve an object past a certain point, increased geometry complexity needs to be acompanied with increased detail, case in point GT photo mode models crack up the polygon counts and level of detail
i understand that, geometry just was example, like i said before, diminishing returns aproach on every aspect not just geometry.
No, im telling you the ps3->ps4 gap will be surpassed with next generations, there is gigantic room for improvement.
there always is, ps3 hw was gigantic improvement over ps2 at 600$ and yet it was smaller leap then previous gen.
I also believe the switch from rasterization to raytracing in the next 20 years will match if not surpass ps1->ps2 jump
i disagree, RT doesn't increase details on objects in game, even though it acts as real light.
 

SonGoku

Member
i've should have said approaching not hiting, that's what i wantet to say in first place.
actually some fire effects look almost photo real in some games, car models also kind a there, there's probably more things that i missed.
i understand that, geometry just was example, like i said before, diminishing returns approach on every aspect not just geometry.
Some aspects of a game do approach it, true but its all a carefully crafted illusion on small controlled environments
Game visuals are made up of multiple elements, we are still not getting cohesive visuals, some parts look great others not so much

There's plenty of areas with ample room for improvement that can lift visuals
there always is, ps3 hw was gigantic improvement over ps2 at 600$ and yet it was smaller leap then previous gen.
In some areas and games it was just as big imo
Besides some gens came with paradigm shifts in rendering, those type of changes take decades

PS3->PS4 there wasn't a paradigm shift in rendering, everything was refined a evolution so to speak, that's why PS5 won't have any trouble at least matching that leap
i disagree, RT doesn't increase details on objects in game, even though it acts as real light.
Not speaking of hybrid RT which is a small paradigm shift on its own right
Im talking about the move from rasterization to raytracing for rendering games
well the leaks are showing its just that..
It points towards 10TF+ minimum, 11TF conservative expectation
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
well the leaks are showing its just that..

Some leaks are also taking about ray tracing for both, some leaks are ignoring (as usual) micro architecture differentiations and reason in terms people understand and can relate to, but wishful thinking may make people see what they want to see :). A mid to late 2020 GPU developed in close cooperation with Sony is bound to have an improved architecture/feature set over a GPU that came out a year before albeit on Desktop.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Falls in line with my 11TF expectation or better put it doesn't contradict it
Minimal gap between consoles is expected

The reason for the "delay" in 2017 isn't convincing though

Klee said both are above 9.2TF but to also keep expectations in check. I would expect closer to 10TF and this would be quite a way above my expectation so I would be very happy.

Anyone still expecting or hoping for 14.2TF or 18.4TF is captured in this brilliant moment :messenger_tears_of_joy::

stranger-things-hopper-1562970878.png


I agree about the "delay" being for BC in 2017 is unconvincing right now and even Matt replied to and questioned that at reset.
 
Maybe... depends of who you ask
I think minimum 20GB for the memory bus,
I agree with you on that, 24g not happening.
The reason for the "delay" in 2017 isn't convincing though
This is laughable.
They’re wrong. The 5700 can’t run RT, so it’ll be either the 5800 or 5900. We don’t know the specs of those yet but they are often referenced as Big Navi.
I dont know how much do i have to RE explain this to you, it doesnt mean 5700 but the performance of 5700 xt + RT.
 
Klee said both are above 9.2TF but to also keep expectations in check. I would expect closer to 10TF and this would be quite a way above my expectation so I would be very happy.

Anyone still expecting or hoping for 14.2TF or 18.4TF is captured in this brilliant moment :messenger_tears_of_joy::

stranger-things-hopper-1562970878.png


I agree about the "delay" being for BC in 2017 is unconvincing right now and even Matt replied to and questioned that at reset.

Expectations firmly in check.

Anything less than 17.1 TF is unacceptable ;)
 
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Fake

Member
Where did you get that ps5 is more powerful than xbox ? you can speculate on numbers but stating that this is more powerful than that... needs facts.
Rich (Richard Leadbetter, Technology Editor, Digital Foundry ) say something about 'devs are more happy with PS5'.
Anw, I don't get why you're so angry about others members speculation. This is a speculation thread after all. Nobody will earn money for speculate here. We can just speculate info we still don't get yet. I used to talk about 'PS5 have a NAVI hardware exclusive while Xbox Two will use a custom Vega', but already gone by Phil inself.
 
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Rich (Richard Leadbetter, Technology Editor, Digital Foundry ) say something about 'devs are more happy with PS5'.
Anw, I don't get why you're so angry about others members speculation. This is a speculation thread after all. Nobody will earn money for speculate here. We can just speculate info we still don't get yet. I used to talk about 'PS5 have a NAVI hardware exclusive while Xbox Two will use a custom Vega', but already gone by Phil inself.
Nothing wrong with speculations but when you read this...
Scarlett gets a spec bump making it one CU notch below the PS5.
  • PS5 4se 72a/80 @ 2000 = 18.4 TF
  • Scarlett 3se 66a/72 @ 1850 = 15.6 TF
A power diff of 17% which you could pass off as barely noticeable to the naked eye in this situation.
All the pieces of the puzzle are out there.

You just need to put them together yourself.

If you don't want to do that, that's ok too. Just sit back and wait for the reveals
I dont know what pieces of puzzle hes talking about, where are those facts? Ps5 such n such CU count and xbox below it with such n such.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Just bringing over here what else Kleegamefan said over on the other site IF you put much stock into what he is saying.

Wanted to answer some general questions about what I saw.

Game was not shown behind closed doors at e3

Really early

Running on PS5

I didn't see Scarlett so I can't directly compare

Framerate wasn't always smooth....seemed to be in the 20-30fps range

Open world and the scope was unbelievable. Never seen anything like it...far beyond Witcher/BOTW/HZD

Even so, close up details were beyond anything I have seen before

Ray Traced reflections....looks really impressive

Dynamic destructable environments...this game is just WTF

When I asked him about the SSD, he got visably nervous. Didn't want to talk about it at all.

As good as it looks, I get the feeling this isn't a launch game, really early.

That's all I can think of for now.. I should be able to get more information when I go back in October. I will see if I can share anything else at that time.
 
How will AMD, Microsoft and Sony ensure 4K 60 frames per second with hardware acceleration/software techniques of Real Time Ray Tracing, 9-18 TFLOPS range, WiFi 6, USB 3.1 gen 2 or USB 4.0, latest Blu-Ray Optical Drive of Blu-Ray Disk of 100+GB, 1TB+ of SSD Drive, HDMI 2.1/FreeSync2 with a price range of $400-$600?
 
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Darius87

Member
it's very real that ps5 will have 36CU at around 2Ghz if that rumor is real it would makes sense for BW compatibility, it would have 2 shader engines 1 SE should be turned off and lowered clock to 800mhz would exactly match ps4, for pro 2SE at lowered clock to 911mhz, i know to some 9.2Tflops would be underpowered but adding more CU's would break this configuration, though by increasing 4CU would add a bit over 1Tflop so:
36CU at 2Ghz == 9.2Tflop
40CU at 2Ghz == 10.2Tflop
44CU at 2Ghz == 11.2Tflop
and so on...
 

henau212

Neo Member
How will AMD, Microsoft and Sony ensure 4K 60 frames per second with hardware acceleration/software techniques of Real Time Ray Tracing, 9-18 TFLOPS range, WiFi 6, USB 3.1 gen 2 or USB 4.0, latest Blu-Ray Optical Drive of Blu-Ray Disk of 100+GB, 1TB+ of SSD Drive, HDMI 2.1/FreeSync2 with a price range of $400-$600?
Easy, they won‘t. They never said anything about 4K, 60Fps and RT, because that combination is not happening...
 

xool

Member
Just bringing over here what else Kleegamefan said over on the other site IF you put much stock into what he is saying.

Wanted to answer some general questions about what I saw.

Game was not shown behind closed doors at e3

Really early

Running on PS5

I didn't see Scarlett so I can't directly compare

Framerate wasn't always smooth....seemed to be in the 20-30fps range

Open world and the scope was unbelievable. Never seen anything like it...far beyond Witcher/BOTW/HZD

Even so, close up details were beyond anything I have seen before

Ray Traced reflections....looks really impressive

Dynamic destructable environments...this game is just WTF

When I asked him about the SSD, he got visably nervous. Didn't want to talk about it at all.

As good as it looks, I get the feeling this isn't a launch game, really early.

That's all I can think of for now.. I should be able to get more information when I go back in October. I will see if I can share anything else at that time.

I assume you and him (klee) where at the same presentation? I got the impression that klee got some extra info from a friend at a studio ?? [edit - duh got yours and his words mixed up - use quotes !! ]

Anyway good to hear what you are saying .. and then some :) . Did you see the actual PS5 (devkit?).
 
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vpance

Member
Just bringing over here what else Kleegamefan said over on the other site IF you put much stock into what he is saying.

Wanted to answer some general questions about what I saw.

Game was not shown behind closed doors at e3

Really early

Running on PS5

I didn't see Scarlett so I can't directly compare

Framerate wasn't always smooth....seemed to be in the 20-30fps range

Open world and the scope was unbelievable. Never seen anything like it...far beyond Witcher/BOTW/HZD

Even so, close up details were beyond anything I have seen before

Ray Traced reflections....looks really impressive

Dynamic destructable environments...this game is just WTF

When I asked him about the SSD, he got visably nervous. Didn't want to talk about it at all.

As good as it looks, I get the feeling this isn't a launch game, really early.

That's all I can think of for now.. I should be able to get more information when I go back in October. I will see if I can share anything else at that time.

Another post following up:

World detail of The Order 1886+miles long draw distance+fully dynamic world destruction + Ray Traced reflections.


It didn't look very polished like those nVidia/Unreal/Unity demos but at the same time beyond and I could imagine running on an Xbox One X or Pro

So yeah, not like a current game, but not like a GDC demo either. You would have to see it yourself to understand because I can't quite articulate it properly because I can't compare it to anything else.
 

xool

Member
How will AMD, Microsoft and Sony ensure 4K 60 frames per second with hardware acceleration/software techniques of Real Time Ray Tracing, 9-18 TFLOPS range, WiFi 6, USB 3.1 gen 2 or USB 4.0, latest Blu-Ray Optical Drive of Blu-Ray Disk of 100+GB, 1TB+ of SSD Drive, HDMI 2.1/FreeSync2 with a price range of $400-$600?

Good question - people tried cost estimates earlier in this thread - cost of the APU somewhere between $94 and $165 dollar at 300 to 400mm2 die size - 9TF is low end, and higher end could get in the mid teens. SonGoku did another cheaper estimate based on better yields.

$100 gets you the extra chips + RAM
$100 tops for the SSD
Blu-Ray is ~$25 for current - the ultra (100GB) version might be a bit more - dunno - as it becomes commodity price might stay same.
Another $25 for PSU.
$25 for the controller
$25 for the box, fan, cardboard.
Cooling is probably going to be fairly costly ~$35+ for vapor chamber or whatever..

Top end that gets you to $500 (with the $165 APU)

[don't flame me - the estimates are from memory]
 
So, Klee is the 3rd source which saying that PS5 is more powerful than next Xbox. Also RT confirmed again for PS5
 
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he said ""
World detail of The Order 1886+miles long draw distance+fully dynamic world destruction + Ray Traced reflections.


It didn't look very polished like those nVidia/Unreal/Unity demos but at the same time beyond and I could imagine running on an Xbox One X or Pro

So yeah, not like a current game, but not like a GDC demo either. You would have to see it yourself to understand because I can't quite articulate it properly because I can't compare it to anything else.""
---------------------------
how could you not compare it to anything else when you say it's not GDC demos perf and more than pro and x :messenger_tears_of_joy:, looks more like 9 to 12 Tf to me.
 
Again, where? To my knowledge he mentions a xone vs xones comparison without saying which system is which..

Xbone S is stronger than fat Xbone by around 100 GFLOPS. That's around 8 - 10% At 9-10 TF it would be 0.8-1 TF difference in PS5 favor
 
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xool

Member
Where exactly is he saying that? He is only saying that they both have virtually the same performance..

He didn't say that - he defended Gameinformer's Reiner ..

Background - Reiner tweeted that PS5 was more powerful, and received a lot of attack, including on resetera etc..

Came out pretty strong in Reiner's defence : (note to readers - includes sarcasm)


95nxIFB.png


Does that mean Reiner was right .. maybe ..

if there is anyone outside of maybe SIE/MS whose information I can take at face value, it's Andrew Reiner.
 
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henau212

Neo Member
Xbone S is stronger than fat Xbone by around 100 GFLOPS. That's around 8 - 10% At 9-10 TF it would be 0.8-1 TF difference in PS5 favor
1) He is not stating that PS5 is the xbones
2) He is saying with the comparison that both consoles are basically using the same hardware. Difference will be barely noticeable.. There is no way to know the exact difference on non final hardware.

I am not saying that the PS5 is slower. But do not read that much into each line.
 
1) He is not stating that PS5 is the xbones
2) He is saying with the comparison that both consoles are basically using the same hardware. Difference will be barely noticeable.. There is no way to know the exact difference on non final hardware.


I am not saying that the PS5 is slower. But do not read that much into each line.

He had referred to difference between Xbone S and Xbone. Virtually are the same, but they are not equall.
Dude, he wouldn't defend Reiner for what he said in the end. Cheers!
 
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vpance

Member
So was Klee's info newer than Reiner's? Seems like both were talking about spec as of E3 in June. Could be different now with 2 GHz.
 

shaddam

Member
Just bringing over here what else Kleegamefan said over on the other site IF you put much stock into what he is saying.

Wanted to answer some general questions about what I saw.

Game was not shown behind closed doors at e3

Really early

Running on PS5

I didn't see Scarlett so I can't directly compare

Framerate wasn't always smooth....seemed to be in the 20-30fps range

Open world and the scope was unbelievable. Never seen anything like it...far beyond Witcher/BOTW/HZD

Even so, close up details were beyond anything I have seen before

Ray Traced reflections....looks really impressive

Dynamic destructable environments...this game is just WTF

When I asked him about the SSD, he got visably nervous. Didn't want to talk about it at all.

As good as it looks, I get the feeling this isn't a launch game, really early.

That's all I can think of for now.. I should be able to get more information when I go back in October. I will see if I can share anything else at that time.
What is this game?
 

TeamGhobad

Banned
PS5 more powerful or more accurately nexbox not more powerful than the ps5. so why would people pick it over the ps5? another major fuckup by MS. you would think professional pride in a trillion dollar company like MS would force them to design a more powerful system but no.
 
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