Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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dr guildo said:
Still the same level design, so your example is misleading. Have you seen my Dr Strange gif ?
Two different world designs. If not I could have taken SoulReaver which made this way before TF on PS1.
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No it isn't. If you can find the interview where they explained how they achieved this, you'll see that there needs to be no similarity whatsoever. It was similar in this case as they were using the effect to simulate time-travel. It's still moving the player to somewhere completely different each time they trigger the button. It could look entirely different if they wanted it to.
 
BadBreathOfTheWild said:
I've heard of this but not watched it until now, and it's worse than I thought.

The Sweeney quote they used said the "storage architecture" in PS5 is ahead of anything currently on PC. The storage architecture. That's the entire IO chain and software stack. Sweeney's quote never said the PS5 SSD was ahead of anything currently on PC. He never said faster SSDs don't exist. What a bell end.
Yet again I wish Sony had some marketing phrase similar to "Velocity Architecture" to refer to their storage architecture, just so the whole thing stops getting referred to merely as "PS5's SSD".
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I agree about certain people not grasping that it's more than just the SSD but I don't think giving it a marketing name is the solution as Microsoft have the opposite problem. They have given lots of names and fancy acronyms and then not explained what these features do in any detail. Just ran off and said they'll talk about it later!
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
I agree about certain people not grasping that it's more than just the SSD but I don't think giving it a marketing name is the solution as Microsoft have the opposite problem. They have given lots of names and fancy acronyms and then not explained what these features do in any detail. Just ran off and said they'll talk about it later!
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I thought they did break down Velocity Architecture? I remember them saying it consisted of four key features, of which the first is the fact they have an SSD. Remember Velocity Architecture isn't in comparison to PS5, but to Xbox One, which had a mechanical drive.
The remaining three areas were a hardware decompression block using BCPack compression on textures, DirectStorage API to reduce CPU overhead, and Sampler Feedback with Streaming using custom hardware filters, which is DirectX's version of Partially Resident Textures optimised for streaming, which would be called PRT+ outside of DirectX from what I can see.

That they have revealed that level of detail suggests there's not much else to it or left to uncover. If there is, it's weird they were this specific in choosing just these four elements. We shall see, though.
 
BadBreathOfTheWild said:
Also, Titanfall 2 campaign is fantastic, varied and doesn't drag on. Highly recommended.

EDIT: Jesus the video I linked really doesn't do it justice. The player isn't very good.
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I haven't really come to like FPS much initially over the years, but I have to say, after playing COD WWII: I'm starting to like them again. The last time I played one seriously was Wolfenstein New Order.

Playing Titanfall 2 now and I agree, it's pretty good based on the campaign. Wondering which other FPS games in this vein I should try out?
 
Lethal01 said:
I respect Linus for admitting he fucked up and trying to undo the misinformation he spread while taking care not to just end up spreading more.
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I understand that but as I said looks like Linus doesn't get the point if he don't understand what Cerny and Tim already said then they just cannot say more,
both have an NDA to respect and not because the popular kid wants to know right now that mean should happen.

But also Linus should wait a second as usually does to check exactly what both engineers say instead to show in the podcast that SSD like saying "look they lied"
and I am sure Tim know about this but let be honest he doesn't give a fuck what Linus understand or not.

Sometimes a youtuber is only that a youtuber.
Insane Metal said:
I'm watching it now and he said it's actually different, it'd need to be tailored to get the best out of the xbox, just like it had been on the PS5. And it wouldn't necessarily look worse.
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But XSX is not like a PC high end where can theoryze you can brute a lot things because you can "without" problem 32 GB of ram plus 11 GB of GDDR6 and lot of things more
to reduce that delta in SSD/IO, the SXS is just to similar to the PS5 (in memory size) bruteforce that.

So for example I was epic I want to make a demo for XSX probably I will use a demo only with RT but of course here the situation is different than with PS5 demo because
we supposed than high end PC (rtx 2080 TI) is already better than both console in RT department instead of the demo we saw for PS5 which is even above of the high end PC in
streaming assets department.
bitbydeath said:
How the turns have tabled.

GPU - *XSX > PS5
Although PS5 can produce better looking games due to streaming graphics direct from zBrush.

CPU - *XSX > PS5
Although you must ignore the two other CPU's in the PS5 which take some load off the main CPU unlike XSX which will be drawing from the one. (The smallest of the three CPU's in the PS5 is the same size as the one found in the PS4.)

Memory - *XSX > PS5
Although you must ignore the large pool of SRAM in the IO which carries out tasks XSX will be using the main memory for and XSX will have split memory causing further complications.

SSD - PS5 > SSD
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You miss something

SSD - *PS5 > SSD
Xbox use a cooler name (XVA) than Playstation

One doubth where you get this :
Although you must ignore the two other CPU's in the PS5
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Because yes looks like PS5 reduce more its footprint in the CPU for the IO customization from Playstation. But how you deduct an specific number from that?
 
Rudius said:
Memes aside, it would be nice to see a talk between him and Linus.
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I'd be worried he would keep interrupting Tim :lollipop_grinning_smiling_eyes:

I do like some of his content. But he was sort of disrespectful (to all parties involved)... and now he wants in?

People make mistakes... but meh... with great power comes great responsibility
 
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PaintTinJr said:
UE5 uses async compute(GPU obviously) for the nanite and lumen software renderers AFAIK, and keeping the work scheduling on time - to let DMA data copies, compute and GPU pipeline task splice seamlessly to maximize performance - begins with good CPU task scheduling., as latency at the CPU propagates through to the schedule on the GPU.

The UE5 engine will use as much memory as available, so the slower 6GB for the CPU being needed is pretty much guaranteed, so having only 336GB/s bandwidth and I/O to do on CPU cores, versus 448GB/s and an IO complex doing the DMA copies directly to unified RAM will almost certainly favour better scheduling(lower latency issues) on the PS5
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I've been always following your amazing posts, learning a lot yet not comprehending many parts as well. You've been giving me too much knowledge to the point that my brain hurts, now it's time for you to suffer from the auto-refresh mode that will make your finger scroll forever until it snaps.

First I said that your avatar matches your blue name and won't want to ruin it, then saw that golden spaceship inside.:messenger_winking_tongue:

Medal of Guru 🙌 🏅
 
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jfIrU1h.gif
 
BadBreathOfTheWild said:
I thought they did break down Velocity Architecture? I remember them saying it consisted of four key features, of which the first is the fact they have an SSD. Remember Velocity Architecture isn't in comparison to PS5, but to Xbox One, which had a mechanical drive.
The remaining three areas were a hardware decompression block using BCPack compression on textures, DirectStorage API to reduce CPU overhead, and Sampler Feedback with Streaming using custom hardware filters, which is DirectX's version of Partially Resident Textures optimised for streaming, which would be called PRT+ outside of DirectX from what I can see.

That they have revealed that level of detail suggests there's not much else to it or left to uncover. If there is, it's weird they were this specific in choosing just these four elements. We shall see, though.
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That is a lot of the issue. We have all the names and a basic and sometimes vague overview but no details. E.g. There is a whole thread just on what the 100GB instantly accessible means!
 
SSfox said:
Let's play a game, when do you think Sony will give the new date, and what's gonna be the new date?

I'd say: New date announcement for next Friday, and the new date event will be set as 12th June.
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I say new date announcement this friday on 5th June, the event on next Thursday 11th june.

Andodalf said:
It would be. When someone who's very tech savvy can't see how things are better your solution, you have at the least a communication issue. Actually talking to him would be positive if they have anything good to say.

Rn things have basically gone

T- "This SSD lets us do things you've never seen before"

L- "But we already have extreme SSDs that seem even crazier and they do nothing for gaming"

T- "You're dumb"

L- "Please explain it"

T- "No."
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Except it is Tim Sweeney who has been patiently replying to people on Twitter who are just trying to gotcha him without breaching his NDA. Linus is one who said Tim is saying stupid stuff and this and that and what not.
 
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I'm convinced Epic is that one developer who pushed Sony the hardest to invest heavily on I/O speed. That would explain why they are so open and excited about that feature.
 
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BadBreathOfTheWild said:
No it isn't. If you can find the interview where they explained how they achieved this, you'll see that there needs to be no similarity whatsoever. It was similar in this case as they were using the effect to simulate time-travel. It's still moving the player to somewhere completely different each time they trigger the button. It could look entirely different if they wanted it to.
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Maybe but it still the same Level design, it doesn't change the fact that those tricks are not new because SoulReaver made this on PS1, just to show you that it's the same thing, same Level design.
 
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dr guildo said:
Maybe but it doesn't change the fact that those tricks are not new because SoulReaver made this on PS1, just to show you that it's the same thing, same Level design.
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The point is it doesn't need to be the same level design. It can just be a teleport to a part of the map you can't get too or see from the other part of the map.

My point was being instantly able to jump to a new world (whether similar or entirely different) isn't new or revolutionary, it just requires you to have it already in RAM.

What PS5's IO will allow is for you to be able to do something similar without needing to have it ready in RAM just in case. How fast the transition/portal/warp/wrist-device/magic-wand transition happens will depend entirely on IO performance, with PS5 currently being able to do it quicker than anything else out there as things stand currently.
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
That is a lot of the issue. We have all the names and a basic and sometimes vague overview but no details. E.g. There is a whole thread just on what the 100GB instantly accessible means!
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Wasn't that just a marketing suit talking to a journalist and basically saying they can stream stuff from the SSD "instantly" now when compared to last generation? 100 GB just being a stand-in for a game, to emphasise how it extends the 16 GB of RAM?
 
Metroiddarks said:
You miss something

SSD - *PS5 > SSD
Xbox use a cooler name (XVA) than Playstation

One doubth where you get this :

Because yes looks like PS5 reduce more its footprint in the CPU for the IO customization from Playstation. But how you deduct an specific number from that?
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It's detailed in the road to PS5 vid.

www.neogaf.com

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Man hopefully the June 12th rumor is true. One extra week isn’t too bad Link?
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
New world means new level design, new assets, new lighting, etc.
If it is the same Level design with just a new skin, it doesn't make it a new world but the same level. Sorry

My point was my Dr Strange gif. Your TF vidéo doesn't show the same thing at all.
 
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BadBreathOfTheWild said:
Wasn't that just a marketing suit talking to a journalist and basically saying they can stream stuff from the SSD "instantly" now when compared to last generation? 100 GB just being a stand-in for a game, to emphasise how it extends the 16 GB of RAM?
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It is all still up in the air. The thread I referred to is 50 pages long and still no consensus. Maybe you could check out the latest page?

ETA: Here is the blurb on Velocity Architecture from the Xbox website.

Enter Xbox Velocity Architecture, which features tight integration between hardware and software and is a revolutionary new architecture optimized for streaming of in game assets. This will unlock new capabilities that have never been seen before in console development, allowing 100 GB of game assets to be instantly accessible by the developer. The components of the Xbox Velocity Architecture all combine to create an effective multiplier on physical memory that is, quite literally, a game changer.
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dr guildo said:
New world means new level design, new assets, new lighting, etc.
If it is the same Level design with just a new skin, it doesn't make it a new world but the same level. Sorry

My point was my Dr Strange gif. Your TF vidéo doesn't show the same thing at all.
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It isn't the same level design with a new "skin", it's entirely new geometry and assets. It superficially resembles the old one because the mechanic was being used to simulate time-travel, but the same technique could equally have taken the player to a desert with different lighting and everything else.

I know the effect you're talking about. It's possible already but consumes RAM that can't be used for the immediate scene.
What PS5 will allow is something similar where the entire RAM is replaced in under a second for something completely different.
PS5 will do such a mechanic better than XSX or current PC. That I agree with you on.

The method used in Titanfall 2 (from memory) was that both worlds were build entirely separately and offset from each other in the same 3D space. When you trigger the change it just adjust the player position offset so that the next frame puts you "in the same place" but in the different version.

It's not just swapping textures and putting some flames in. It's a different part of the game world that could have looked like anything at all, providing both can fit in RAM, which is the limiting factor without crazy fast IO.


Even closer to Dr Strange, but same RAM limitation
 
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BadBreathOfTheWild said:
Wasn't that just a marketing suit talking to a journalist and basically saying they can stream stuff from the SSD "instantly" now when compared to last generation? 100 GB just being a stand-in for a game, to emphasise how it extends the 16 GB of RAM?
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I think it was, but now its's been throw around by the Xbox fans to say that is the proof that XVA is faster than the PS5 I/O complex, somehow
 
Metroiddarks said:
Ok but your comparison is wrong, the XSX have fewer bandwidth than PS5 so you cannot just translate in that way to say PS5 has two extra cores, doesn't work
like that, as an slower system requires less cpu power to stream its data.
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It has a lot more than two extra cores. The IO alone is 10 cores worth and Tempest is pretty much the power of Cell.
 
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Update on Pedicure Watch 2020. We now have entered the second ring of hell. I had an appointment at 3pm. I arrived 10 minutes before 3pm est. I was then Told they are short staff and I would have to wait. I waited till 6pm est. At that point the owner then told me they wouldn't get to me today. She then set and appointment up at 1pm est Friday. She also gave me a 25% off coupon because of my troubles.

I just want a pedicure. Is that to much to ask?
 
WhispersintheWind said:
Update on Pedicure Watch 2020. We now have entered the second ring of hell. I had an appointment at 3pm. I arrived 10 minutes before 3pm est. I was then Told they are short staff and I would have to wait. I waited till 6pm est. At that point the owner then told me they wouldn't get to me today. She then set and appointment up at 1pm est Friday. She also gave me a 25% off coupon because of my troubles.

I just want a pedicure. Is that to much to ask?
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Haha Godspeed bro.
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
It is all still up in the air. The thread I referred to is 50 pages long and still no consensus. Maybe you could check out the latest page?

ETA: Here is the blurb on Velocity Architecture from the Xbox website.
Click to expand...

Just took a look at the last page and it's as I thought. Someone obsessed over the word choice in some marketing blurb.

What "instantly" in the context it's used is referring to not needing to cache everything in RAM any more and being able to stream it into RAM just-in-time.

This marketing blurb is somehow being seen through the lens of a fanboy comparing it to PS5, when in fact it's Microsoft comparing it to Xbox One and mechanical HDDs that weren't capable of just-in-time asset loading and needed tricks to predict where you were going or tricks to slow you down etc.
That's what's new.

There is no "instantly" about it. Sequentially read data will be hitting RAM at an average ~4.8GB/s where it can then be used by the CPU/GPUs.

The idea of a GPU directly addressing an SSD to crunch data is laughable. It's orders of magnitude slower than getting it from RAM. Not just in ultimate bandwidth, but in all the tiny random reads it would be requesting to fill its working caches. Utter gibberish that could only be dreamed up by someone that doesn't really know how things work even on a basic level.

The 100 GB figure is either thrown around as an example game package size (which in the context of the casual marketing blurb makes sense) or if it really is technical and something to be analysed in detail then it probably refers to the amount of logical to physical flash address memory mapping range that can be cached to help with random reads.

The host (CPU/game) doesn't use physical addresses to get data from flash NAND, but logical ones that the flash controller translates.
100 GB of mapping table would need around 100 MB of storage close to the flash controller for best performance.

The Sony storage patent linked here earlier discusses ways of getting around this limitation, as well as maximising latency by using SRAM to do the job.

If the 100 GB wasn't just a bit of marketing blurb then as a limitation it probably refers to how big this look up table can be in their setup.
If they're using a DRAMless SSD as rumoured by the LinkedIn post, then maybe the solution they have for mitigating random read overheads is limited in this way.
 
WhispersintheWind said:
Update on Pedicure Watch 2020. We now have entered the second ring of hell. I had an appointment at 3pm. I arrived 10 minutes before 3pm est. I was then Told they are short staff and I would have to wait. I waited till 6pm est. At that point the owner then told me they wouldn't get to me today. She then set and appointment up at 1pm est Friday. She also gave me a 25% off coupon because of my troubles.

I just want a pedicure. Is that to much to ask?
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If you don't get a pedicure I'm busting in to give you a permanent one!!!

giphy.gif
 
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not digging the Russian talks of a ''fat''/"huge-as-1.5-PS4Pro's" PS5, a square box with round edges.

It's sounding like it will look pretty boring; and give-off vibes of an oversized internet router, a chunky PS1/Saturn-type design, or depening on how wide it is, a tall WiiFit Blanace Board.

None of the following mockups look appealing to me:

vwwtcgD.png


pSTjH38.jpg


FyGEIVy.jpg
 
I might be in the minority in this thread that actually likes the design of the XSX. Pure form following function. Big ass heatsink that you can blow some canned air at from the too to declog. Big but tightly packaged.
If PS5 is somehow significantly smaller in volume I'll be very surprised.
 
WhispersintheWind said:
Update on Pedicure Watch 2020. We now have entered the second ring of hell. I had an appointment at 3pm. I arrived 10 minutes before 3pm est. I was then Told they are short staff and I would have to wait. I waited till 6pm est. At that point the owner then told me they wouldn't get to me today. She then set and appointment up at 1pm est Friday. She also gave me a 25% off coupon because of my troubles.

I just want a pedicure. Is that to much to ask?
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Are you the person with those Wolverine toenails cos this is a Sasquatch free zone.
 
dan_of_orion said:


"I've kept quiet a lot of stuff to myself, one of the things the developers have told me is that the demo was crafted with Playstation hardware in mind and that if it had been ported to the Xbox Series X, the Xbox could not run the demo too good because the storage system of the Xbox is different"
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He was spinning and spinning and apologizing for xbox to the point I felt seasick. Just throw it out there as simple and easy as it is, it'll look and run bad on xbox and stop apologizing, report the message as it is from the developer. Above all of that his slow-mo narrating.
 
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DaGamez said:
Agreed. I think some forget how many laptops are manufactured in a year, 15m in six months isn't that big of a deal.

Any mention of more than one sku in production or...
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I mean I haven't heard of Xbox Series S being a thing still. But I don't know everything. So it still could be. If it was I wonder if that was calculated in the rumor figure of how many Xbox they want to produce in the first 6 months.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
He was spinning and spinning and apologizing for xbox to the point I felt seasick. Just throw it out there is simple and easy, it'll look and run bad on xbox and stop apologizing, report the message as it is from the developer. Above all of that his slow-mo narrating.
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He definetley has a strange voice and yes as you put it he is an "xbox apoligist" haha, that still makes me laugh. But for all his faults he always tries getting next-gen info from developers which is something I appreciate.
 
dan_of_orion said:
He definetley has a strange voice and yes as you put it he is an "xbox apoligist" haha, that still makes me laugh. But for all his faults he always tries getting next-gen info from developers which is something I appreciate.
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His sources are legit, but he ruins it either because he's an xbox fan or just afraid from the backlash.
 
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