Handy Fake
Member
What have I missed? What's this Xbox RDNA1 thing?
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MasterCornholio
Member
Sounds more like revenge than anything else to be honest.
Moridianae
Member
Yeah, I don't know much about this stuff right off gate. I'm just spouting extrapolation based on what I've attempted to understand.
I, personally, love the SSD. It's a fascinating thing, opinions. The fact we will see lightning fast loading is amazing to me. Conversely, my wife is not a fan. She prefers load times herself.
I, personally, love the SSD. It's a fascinating thing, opinions. The fact we will see lightning fast loading is amazing to me. Conversely, my wife is not a fan. She prefers load times herself.
MastaKiiLA
Member
geordiemp
Member
To be fair nobody knows, its FUD and lots of tweeters guessing.
All we know is there is an apple beta OS which when you go into it lists the 6000 RDNA2 specs.
And one of them is a Navi21 lite with 56 CU and 1.9 Ghz on a lower node but its a pC part that is loosly rumoured by the apple beta drivers,
Also there is a 40 CU 2.4 Ghz which going by its die size has a huge L2 cache, something like 96 MB. And AMD have patented Infinity Cache so it adds up.
There is no data to suggest this Navi21 Lite is a base for XSX, just people speculating on twitter and you tube and hence the vast gossip.
No point really, we will find out more info in 10 days and things will be clearer, as AMD will list all their cards and explain differences.
Then its round 2
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sircaw
Banned
To be fair nobody knows, its FUD and lots of tweeters guessing.
All we know is there is an apple beta OS which when you go into it lists the 6000 RDNA2 specs.
And one of them is a Navi21 lite with 56 CU and 1.9 Ghz on a lower node but its a pC part that is loosly rumoured by the apple beta drivers,
There is no data to suggest this a base for XSX, just people speculating on twitter and you tube.
No point really, we will find out more info in 10 days and things will be clearer, as AMD will list all their cards and explain differences.
Then its round 2
Ten days to go, Tick Tock.
danielJackson
Banned
Exactly.
Many people dont care if one have 10-20% more pixels, or bit better shadows, or twice as fast loadings. So power diffence is basically not affecting things much if all
Games, reputation, brand and controller preferences do matter.
And big enough differences, like if loading times would be 5s average vs 50s average. Or 1080p vs 4k. But if/when that isnt the case, Xbox doesnt have a chance as Playstation wins many areas hands down.
Brand: xbox is popular at USA, but almost non excistent at EU. I dont even remember if I have ever seen xbox ads on tv, 100% of gamers I know own ps4 and almost none own xbox one.
People whom are used to the superior symmetrical stick placement arent really loving the idea of asymmetric sticks(and vice versa)
Games: PS5 have shown good looking exclusives, PS4 have had heavy hitter for the whole gen, excluding launch year. Bethesda helps a bit, but xbox games are like "bro-games", which dont appeal to all gamers.
So in the end majority wont care about TINY spec differences. Games sell systems, and familiat ecosystems. If current gen numbers are around 2:1, then that already gives a good starting point which is difficult to beat
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Seems correct. Then the "RTX 3090" is some BS thrown to the mix, as much weaker HW achieved that previously.
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onesvenus
Member
Sorry for not making my point clear, it's obvious MS and AMD are collaborating but the way it goes is MS develops some techniques (see for example the patents on VRS), adds it to DirectX and AMD does a hardware implementation of that to be used in AMD's PC GPUs.Yes.
AMD co-developed Microsoft’s DXR 1.1 API to speed up Xbox Series X ray tracing
AMD's "all-new hardware accelerated ray tracing architecture" is going into PC and console GPUs, helping drive adoption and speedwww.pcgamesn.com
AMD and Nvidia working closely with Microsoft on DXR API
DirectX Raytracing, revealed at GDC 2018, could make 3D games even more spectacular.hexus.net
As long as I know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there isn't any Sony pantented method implemented in hardware that has been used in AMD's PC GPUs. That's why I find all these "Sony has joint developed Navi with AMD" posts and tweets so baffling
Jaguar Victory
Member
Everyone realizes this. Somehow many of us still find incredible value. I wish I had gamepass as a kid. Blockbuster 3 day rentals were a pain when we could convince mom and pops.
geordiemp
Member
Not really, I have seen Sony mathod patents, and AMD hardware patents around the same thing.
MS do it as well.
But VRS is a bad example, VRS is actually a Nvidia patent that was changed by AMD but did not work in 5700 so was scrubbed until RDNA2, and MS include both in DX12 as it has to cover Nvidia and AMD. Mesh shaders was also Nvidia.
MS often patent their DX implementation of the method by others like Nvidia, its weird but still an Nvidia technology to begin with.
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onesvenus
Member
But that's exactly what happens almost every time a new CPU and GPU architecture appears. See Intel's AVX instructions or the wave intrinsics exposed by HLSL shader model 6
Ancient Gamer
Member
Our fishy friend has hit the nail on the head. Gaming is less about graphics and more about gameplay, design, control and immersion.
The current "pissing competition" in this thread about Tflops, 1440p vs 4k, pixel counting, Ray Tracing, RDNA1 or RDNA2 and all of the other collective BS are totally redundant.
Some of the greatest games we all have ever played probably had none of these technologies.
Just my 2 cents as a bipartisan observer.
ToadMan
Member
You know, looking at the pic in the following
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/next...-analysis-leaks-thread.1480978/post-260674133
I can see the character reflections now - something about the switching between the images made them stand out more.
They're not vampires!
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geordiemp
Member
Yup, games we have seen so far wont take advantage of work saving techniques like VRS or mesh shading, but we are seeing the perfirmance as it is, its not emulated just missing POTENTIAL features.
And lets face it, mesh shading and culling everything is not used much in ray tracing where you need off screen reflections, and less said about VRS the better - all will be gone with UE5 anyway.
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So I asked him, and he has now confirmed this is all speculative. He quoted the Forbes article as well.
Nothing to see here.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's of course a speculation, man you're pretty much a veteran around here and know that this is a speculation thread. Thanks.
onesvenus
Member
We'll see what happens on the 28th but I'd put my money on Sony just using more advanced things than MS at most but nothing else. Nothing about this AMD developed Navi for Sony rethoric
cragarmi
Member
A while ago there was a rumour of a PS5 RT tech demo doing the rounds internally, which featured a forest area, and transitioned to a city scape, I hope we get to see it one day, supposedly it was quite impressive. I was looking forward to seeing a few tech demos at the reveal, maybe they could throw them up on the blog after launch? We need more ducks! 
Soo you wanna tell me that guys in Intel knows better how to make, a good looking game?
Hmmm.. ok.
You forgot that Sony make hardware and games running on it. Intel make mainly hardware.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
I don´t know. Bright boot, leg ... inside a shadow casted by that npc behind him?
Thanks for that, mate. So it's a glorified SSR. Things tend to backfire more often lately. The devs just wiped the floor for BC mode, still a plausible thing even during war.
sircaw
Banned
This is what its about, maybe its an age thing, we have already experienced all the bullshit of fancy graphics.
Kinda like the pretty girl thing, when guys were teenagers, who does not love a pretty girl, but turns out most of those pretty girls are pretty shallow and those experiences don't last that long. At least the couple that i dated.
but get a girl with personality, fun factor, that makes you smile and laugh, she can be as plan as a moose on the loose but you will be happy, just saying.
And if my woman reads this, you are fucking gorgeous.
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Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Aren't all those games Sony marketing deals?
thurnishaleygw
Member
My thoughts before was that PS5 would be better with next gen games while Xbox Series X would be better with the games staying in the limits of the older RAM set up but now I'm starting to think even the games made the old way will be a toss up.
Right now I think devs are trying to stay within Xbox Series X RAM limits without using virtual RAM & the cut backs are more noticeable than they thought it would be.
Right now I think devs are trying to stay within Xbox Series X RAM limits without using virtual RAM & the cut backs are more noticeable than they thought it would be.
harry mason 1989
Banned
i have feelings that sony will acquire square enix and capcom in the next sony earnings report
thurnishaleygw
Member
So, from both sides of the aisle, we still resort to whatever twitter sources we deem necessary to push a narrative forward.
Sorry if I seem salty, but these last few pages were rather unbearable, too much warring going on. Is nobody going to think of the children?
Neo_game
Member
I hope it gets reveled then. But I think people are having unrealistic expectation.
ToadMan
Member
Riiiiight.
Well Sony's next earnings report is due Oct 29. Not too long to wait.
Aceofspades
Banned
To be fair nobody knows, its FUD and lots of tweeters guessing.
All we know is there is an apple beta OS which when you go into it lists the 6000 RDNA2 specs.
And one of them is a Navi21 lite with 56 CU and 1.9 Ghz on a lower node but its a pC part that is loosly rumoured by the apple beta drivers,
Also there is a 40 CU 2.4 Ghz which going by its die size has a huge L2 cache, something like 96 MB. And AMD have patented Infinity Cache so it adds up.
There is no data to suggest this Navi21 Lite is a base for XSX, just people speculating on twitter and you tube and hence the vast gossip.
No point really, we will find out more info in 10 days and things will be clearer, as AMD will list all their cards and explain differences.
Then its round 2
What does Infinity Cache entails? I haven't seen AMD patent about it.
Mr Moose
Member
Is it this stuff?
ADAPTIVE CACHE RECONFIGURATION VIA CLUSTERING - ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES, INC.
<div p-id="p-0001">A method of dynamic cache configuration includes determining, for a first clustering configuration, whether a current cache miss rate exceeds a miss rate threshold. The first cluste
www.freepatentsonline.com
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geordiemp
Member
Is it this stuff?
Edit: https://trademarks.justia.com/902/22/amd-infinity-90222772.htmlADAPTIVE CACHE RECONFIGURATION VIA CLUSTERING - ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES, INC.
<div p-id="p-0001">A method of dynamic cache configuration includes determining, for a first clustering configuration, whether a current cache miss rate exceeds a miss rate threshold. The first cluste
Thats common L1 cache, Infinity is large L2 cache, there are even more cache patents, we could fill a bucket lol
Lets see whats officially in RDNA2 PC parts first..
onesvenus
Member
No, I was answering your claim about hardware vendors not adding new things that devs have to learn.
And no, Sony doesn't make GPUs or CPUs
cragarmi
Member
Love the art style. Reminds me a lot of Tearaway, which in my opinion did paper craft better than any paper Mario.
Sw0pDiller
Banned
The part that triggers me the most is that the XBsX GPU is talked over @ hotchips while RDNA2 still is under NDA until late oktober... whats the deal?
FunkMiller
Banned
The paucity of game footage we actually have to compare the consoles is what leads to all of this arguing over tech specs most people don't understand. Roll on when we can actually compare games, like for like.
...that's if XBox actually release some decent gameplay footage of next gen only games.
Sw0pDiller
Banned
yeah i'm playing paper mario through wii-u vrtual console as we speak and while the artwork is nice and all. is hold no candle at all towards Tearaway....
sircaw
Banned
This generation is going to bring so much in terms of experience, that's why i am so happy about the dual sense controller, maybe it will be nothing, maybe it will be overrated, but then again it might just bring a whole new level to gaming we have never ever seen.
I am going to be honest, blowing into a controller to turn a windmill seems a bit retarded to me, a bridge to far lol, but for the rest of it, i really like the idea of it esp for game like we are discussing.
geordiemp
Member
Its a collaboration for both console makers, its software + api + method + hardware implementation..
You need to see any solution from all angles. How the collaborations work when developing consoles is a mystery, but MS and Sony teams seem to be separate and AMD picks up what they like afterwards.....
Hence, it will be interesting to see whats in the PC parts and how they differ to consoles, and if some stuff is in there that is not in MS console, it was probably the other half (team Sony)....and visa versa.
Hence AMD reveal gives us allot of clues and facts.
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thurnishaleygw
Member
https://twistedvoxel.com/watch-dogs-legion-4k-30-fps-ray-tracing-ps5-xsx/
That's the trend so far with pretty much every game for which specs on both systems have been discussed. Equal performance. Seems like the big differences are going to be seen on first party, and with regards to that, Sony is miles ahead so far with what we have seen.
MasterCornholio
Member
I think that depends on what you classify as better.
Neither system will be better in every single way than the other. They each will have advantages when it comes to multiplats.
sircaw
Banned
On paper the xbox should be the better system, how far will it be better, who knows but i don't think it will be alot.
If we need digital foundry zoom-ins and freeze frames to tell you which is better, then who the hell honestly cares.
As long as the games play well and don't stutter all over the place, that's what really matters
The one thing is for certain, Tflops is not a good way to measure performance. Those in many ways are outdated metrics and we should be looking at what other things these consoles bring to the table.
Atleast that was my understanding reading some developer tweets and some other people on the net who i can't recall at this time.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I mean the resolution might be the might be the same but there will be other differences.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Any time there's a shot my controller may tell me I'm drunk by blowing into it, I will not be buying that game.
NeonGhost
uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
What system will have better draw distance and LOD distance
sircaw
Banned
Maybe its great for kids, and yer i can act like one half the time, but at 50 with my lung capacity, They can FUCK OFF, i am not wasting my air for nothing.
sircaw
Banned
Elog
Member
Do you think it is a coincidence that 96 MB is exactly the size required to load 4K and 8K uncompressed textures such as Megascans straight into the L2 cache?
Only a few more days - might take longer to get the real PS5 data though. However, the standard RDNA2 CU block overview should be available on October 28. Good days.
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