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[xool]

There this too that could mean either: a. there's a dedicted asic decompression chip, b. decompressed assets streaming from a fast cache.

Control Developer Reveals PS5's "Stand Out" Feature

Sony Interactive Entertainment has talked about the PlayStation 5 on two separate occasions this [...]

comicbook.com

"When it comes to the PS5, faster hardware is always appreciated and will make life easier in the short term, but it's the new SSD that really stands out; essentially streaming will become something that we don't really have to worry so much about and it will free up some extra CPU bandwidth in the process,"

This is difficult to parse .. because (afaik) the decompression was already done by a separate zlib hardware module (on PS4) .. and I'm 99% sure that on HDD assets for streaming are not compressed .. so where is the CPU savings ??

Maybe there is a serial chip that does additional moves to system RAM that was previously done by CPU

 

[psorcerer]

There this too that could mean either: a. there's a dedicted asic decompression chip, b. decompressed assets streaming from a fast cache.

Control Developer Reveals PS5's "Stand Out" Feature

Sony Interactive Entertainment has talked about the PlayStation 5 on two separate occasions this [...]

comicbook.com

I would say it's straightforward: no compression at all.
Why compress assets if you can load them in-place, fast.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Games are larger and larger because of data duplication on mechanical drives for bigger assets. You won't need to duplicate data for an SSD, so files sizes won't need to be as bloated on the consoles. There is also the piecemeal install options (single player/multiplayer/etc). Cerny talked about both in the Wired article.

Sure all that will no doubt help but if we're still left with half hour install times because of the ODD limitations it will sour the SSD gains. Saying that...You never know they might have something that directly addresses this so will wait and see.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sure all that will no doubt help but if we're still left with half hour install times because of the ODD limitations it will sour the SSD gains. Saying that...You never know they might have something that directly addresses this so will wait and see.

I would gladly deal with that once, and then have the games lightning fast after.

But we shall see with how they address that initial aspect. We have come a long way since slow disc streaming and overly expensive carts.

 

[onQ123]

This is actual a good point. RDR2 for example can take well over an hour to install off the discs. I can't believe they will push the 'no load times' line if these install times remain. Is there anything that can be done about it?

I thought I read something about being able install PS5 games in parts as they are needed

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I thought I read something about being able install PS5 games in parts as they are needed

Jason Schreier mentioned it:



The question would be where does the ODD come into this? We know in comparison to the SSD it will be extremely limited in transfer speed so will stick out like a sore thumb next to the massive speed increase for everything else.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Jason Schreier mentioned it:



The question would be where does the ODD come into this? We know in comparison to the SSD it will be extremely limited in transfer speed so will stick out like a sore thumb next to the massive speed increase for everything else.

"- Load times are crazy fast, even outpacing my SSD PS4 "

No shit, you have an SSD on an USB driven SATA2 controller and 1/10th the speed of it's potential. Such daftness when it comes to tech and Stadia talk.

The next-gen consoles are going to shit all over Stadia.

What do you mean ODD? Games will install just as they do now, to how they go about it with piecemeal, etc., remains to be seen.

The initial install is not a deal breaker for me, and never will be.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

All I want from Sony is better PC monitor support, like ultra wides and other resolutions.

Agreed they really need 1440p support and would also love Ultra wide.

 

[Fake]

Agreed they really need 1440p support and would also love Ultra wide.

Sony wants to sell Bravia btw.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sony wants to sell Bravia btw.

And their 4K TVs do 1440p just fine.

All they need to have is a setting on the PS5 to select resolutions like they did with the PS3.

 

[Fake]

And their 4K TVs do 1440p just fine.

TVs, not PC monitor. Bravia really get a bit of market with PS4 PRO and probably PS5 will do the same.

 

[DeepEnigma]

TVs, not PC monitor. Bravia really get a bit of market with PS4 PRO and probably PS5 will do the same.

I would still like the option to select the standard resolutions used. 1080p/1440p/2160p.

Sony also likes to sell their TVs to people who use them as a computer monitor. Their scalers and resolution tech are top notch for them.

 

[Fake]

I would still like the option to select the standard resolutions used. 1080p/1440p/2160p.

Me too, but it's just like ask for Sony to put more support on others wireless headphone brands besides Sony/Playstation brand.
Make a little of sense for Microsoft support PC things because they change their focus this gen. CES 2020 is almost here and Sony will probably gonna show their focus on 8K TV.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

"- Load times are crazy fast, even outpacing my SSD PS4 "

No shit, you have an SSD on an USB driven SATA2 controller and 1/10th the speed of it's potential. Such daftness when it comes to tech and Stadia talk.

The next-gen consoles are going to shit all over Stadia.

What do you mean ODD? Games will install just as they do now, to how they go about it with piecemeal, etc., remains to be seen.

The initial install is not a deal breaker for me, and never will be.

Optical disc drive. i.e. blu-ray drive. Anyone know what the typical read/transfer speeds for 100GB 4k drives would be? I know PS4 has a 6x speed drive. Currently a big game like RDR2 takes over 1hr 20 minutes to install the 2 discs to the HDD on PS4 Pro.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Optical disc drive. i.e. blu-ray drive. Anyone know what the typical read/transfer speeds for 100GB 4k drives would be? I know PS4 has a 6x speed drive. Currently a big game like RDR2 takes over 1hr 20 minutes to install the 2 discs to the HDD on PS4 Pro.

That is what I assumed you meant.

If they go 10x and above, it will reduce install times, and that is also not taking into account how their I/O setup will be either.

I can see them doing 12x minimum.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So massively improved install times but still maybe 15-20 minutes for something like RDR2 (longer for number 3 if bigger!). I guess for Sony's 'play right away' claim they will need a asterisk next to it!?

For me personally one-off 20 minute install times wouldn't be a deal breaker but it would still be disappointing if we do get 1-5 second load times (from 1-2 minutes now).

 

[onQ123]

Jason Schreier mentioned it:



The question would be where does the ODD come into this? We know in comparison to the SSD it will be extremely limited in transfer speed so will stick out like a sore thumb next to the massive speed increase for everything else.

My idea about standard assets would be a perfect solution because you would only pull the stuff that's not already stored on the console from the Blu-ray.

 

[Norse]

Oh, and make the system boot from "off" to desktop in 10 seconds. It takes way too long for PS4 and Xbox 1 systems to cold boot. My pc cold boots in a few seconds.

 

[sonomamashine]

GeForce RTX 2080 Max-Q graphics chip is better than Next gen consoles.

NVIDIA Shows That Their GeForce RTX GPUs Are Much Faster & Powerful Than Next-Gen Consoles

At their recent GTC China 2019 conference, NVIDIA's CEO, Jensen Huang, showcased that their GeForce RTX GPUs are much faster than the next-generation consoles which include the Xbox Series X and the PlayStation 5. NVIDIA Shows That Their GeForce RTX GPUs Are Much Faster & Powerful Than Next-Gen...

www.neogaf.com

 

[SmokSmog]

No is not, Max-Q is super gimped rtx 2080

 

[bitbydeath]

Jason Schreier mentioned it:



The question would be where does the ODD come into this? We know in comparison to the SSD it will be extremely limited in transfer speed so will stick out like a sore thumb next to the massive speed increase for everything else.

He was just reiterating from what Mark Cerny said.

However, game installation (which is mandatory, given the speed difference between the SSD and the optical drive) will be a bit different than in the PS4. This time around, aided in part by the simplified game data possible with the SSD, Sony is changing its approach to storage, making for a more configurable installation—and removal—process. "Rather than treating games like a big block of data," Cerny says, "we're allowing finer-grained access to the data." That could mean the ability to install just a game's multiplayer campaign, leaving the single-player campaign for another time, or just installing the whole thing and then deleting the single-player campaign once you've finished it.

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.

www.wired.com

 

[psorcerer]

He was just reiterating from what Mark Cerny said.

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.

www.wired.com

Cool. So I'm right. It will be load in-place all over and no compression. Essentially ssd will hold an exact page-by-page memory image of a particular area or game mode.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

He was just reiterating from what Mark Cerny said.

There was an earlier Tweet on the day of the first Wired article where he says he had heard some details about the no load times etc at GDC. Can't find it right now, though...

 

[Lort]

1440p support in xbox one https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-one-1440p

Hardware decompression Without cpu

Xbox One SDK Leak Part 3 | Move Engines & Memory Bandwidth Performance | Tech Tribunal

In part three of our SDK leak analysis we look at the Xbox One's DMA Data Move Engines and the consoles Memory Bandwidth in various scenarios

www.redgamingtech.com

Dolby atom is games https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-one-dolby-atmos-games-list

 

[Lort]

Cool. So I'm right. It will be load in-place all over and no compression. Essentially ssd will hold an exact page-by-page memory image of a particular area or game mode.

That says nothing of the sort...

- all game data will still be compressed AMD gpus can actually render compressed textures as i already said .. this has been supported since 1998.

- game data can be spread further apart and dosent need to be close together is what they are saying and you interpreted that as page by page? You could not have misunderstood that any more than you have

Sorry you have no idea what your talking about and are 100% wrong. Congratulating yourself thinking you were right is peak neogaf.

 

[psorcerer]

That says nothing of the sort...

- all game data will still be compressed AMD gpus can actually render compressed textures as i already said .. this has been supported since 1998.

- game data can be spread further apart and dosent need to be close together is what they are saying and you interpreted that as page by page? You could not have misunderstood that any more than you have

Sorry you have no idea what your talking about and are 100% wrong. Congratulating yourself thinking you were right is peak neogaf.

Compressed textures are used as-is. I'm obviously talking about other data formats that are decompressed at load time in current gen.
To support partial loading of a game data you would want close to zero (de)serialization steps. Which means: uncompressed memory image on ssd.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

1440p support in xbox one https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-one-1440p

Yep have been running my X in 1440p 120hz for quite awhile now, its time PS follows.

 

[vpance]

He was just reiterating from what Mark Cerny said.

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.

www.wired.com

The way he talks about the ability to install an uninstall parts of a game makes me think like space is at an extreme limitation or something (install to ReRAM..??).

Even at 1TB main storage I don't see why anyone would care to manage parts of every game on their system like that. You've already downloaded the entire game to the system anyways if you go digital. That is, unless we're able to pick and choose which parts of the game to download?

 

[Lort]

The way he talks about the ability to install an uninstall parts of a game makes me think like space is at an extreme limitation or something (install to ReRAM..??).

Even at 1TB main storage I don't see why anyone would care to manage parts of every game on their system like that. You've already downloaded the entire game to the system anyways if you go digital. That is, unless we're able to pick and choose which parts of the game to download?

Halo MCC does this right now on xbox.

 

[mckmas8808]

64GB ReRAM will be more than enough, no need to get greedy. They don't need to fit the entire game in there, just the really important assets.

What would these "important" assets be?

 

[onQ123]

The way he talks about the ability to install an uninstall parts of a game makes me think like space is at an extreme limitation or something (install to ReRAM..??).

Even at 1TB main storage I don't see why anyone would care to manage parts of every game on their system like that. You've already downloaded the entire game to the system anyways if you go digital. That is, unless we're able to pick and choose which parts of the game to download?

With a smart design you would never notice the game being installed because they can install it level by level in small pieces.

 

[bitbydeath]

The way he talks about the ability to install an uninstall parts of a game makes me think like space is at an extreme limitation or something (install to ReRAM..??).

Even at 1TB main storage I don't see why anyone would care to manage parts of every game on their system like that. You've already downloaded the entire game to the system anyways if you go digital. That is, unless we're able to pick and choose which parts of the game to download?

I could be wrong but from my understanding the slow part of installation is the update ‘copies’ and not the copy from disk itself. So a number of advancements should aid this.

1. SSD for faster data movement within the SSD itself.

2. More streamlined data, no copying the same updated textures into multiple places as data is no longer stored on a mechanical device and can now be easily retrieved wherever it may live.

 

[R600]

As per Klee back in August,. dont expect too much

 

[vpance]

What would these "important" assets be?

Whatever each game needs access to the most at any one time. So instead of taking up 2-3GB of GDDR as a dependable cache, you got like 64-128GB.

Most next gen games will still be made in mostly similar ways. What you see around you will be in main memory and as you move through the world new stuff gets streamed in. You won't need to have access to all 100GB of it at once.

 

[bitbydeath]

As per Klee back in August,. dont expect too much

Reminds me of this.
-12.9TF
-Not as powerful as some think

 

[R600]

Reminds me of this.
-12.9TF
-Not as powerful as some think

I dunno, 13TF RDNA2 + VRS + RT is probably a match for 2080TI.

I really dont know who would think these specs wont blow people away.

 

[demigod]

Reminds me of this.
-12.9TF
-Not as powerful as some think

It's best if you guys just ignore R600.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Klee saying that the specs wont blow you away? I am already blown away. Nothing about the current released specs of ps5 and xsex are mediocre-average or 'dead on arrival' like current gen. I beg to differ. Its just that we want moar.

 

[R600]

It's best if you guys just ignore R600.

Yea, its best to ignore the fact that Mr. Oracle from Ree thought 13TF RDNA2 will not blow people away but now is quoted as only legit source on matter.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Halo MCC does this right now on xbox.

And so did Uncharted 3 last gen, and Killzone Shadowfall on launch day.

It's nothing new, but will be even better with unified support across developers and base console SDK features.

 

[Thedtrain]

I dunno, 13TF RDNA2 + VRS + RT is probably a match for 2080TI.

I really dont know who would think these specs wont blow people away.

That’s the point I brought up a few pages back. Who wouldn’t be ecstatic with anything over 10tf, especially at the time Klee said this the speculation was all sub-10TF

 

[Lort]

May all your rams be generous
And your clocks stay true
May your voltage be manageable and your heat to
May all the games be 4k
Those monsters you must slay
May your console be quiet and your Controller forever charged
May your pile of shame be lightened for the new years games barrage
May all the consoles be equal and leet pcs to
May this forsaken war be over
And a merry christmas to you

 

[bitbydeath]

I dunno, 13TF RDNA2 + VRS + RT is probably a match for 2080TI.

I really dont know who would think these specs wont blow people away.

Just gotta keep the faith. Their has been a lot pointing in this direction and where theirs smoke.

 

[David Ricardo]

As per Klee back in August,. dont expect too much

But he also said Xbox was 12 TF RDNA. I’m blown away by that. If Sony has a similar specced machine, that’s comparatively much better than what we got last time.

 

[bitbydeath]

That’s the point I brought up a few pages back. Who wouldn’t be ecstatic with anything over 10tf, especially at the time Klee said this the speculation was all sub-10TF

I suspect it was because at that time it was all he was fed. No exact TF just over 10TF and he was tempering his own expectations.

Now he claims to have the spec sheets for both so now is the time to analyse further on what he says.

 

[Haxxor777]

Hey everyone, fresh lurker here. Decided to finally sign up. So hi.

First of all, wanna know what's the commonly accepted consensus here regarding PS5 and XSX specs? I have my own take on those, want to know yours.

And secondly, any rules i need to know to not get instantly banned?

 

[TLZ]

That is what I assumed you meant.

If they go 10x and above, it will reduce install times, and that is also not taking into account how their I/O setup will be either.

I can see them doing 12x minimum.

This might sound crazy, but wouldn't installing 2 lasers in there instead of one double the speed and therefore speed up the installation process greatly? Would this be a practical solution to begin with? I've never seen it before, but maybe it helps? Don't know.

Just throwing crazy ideas out here.

 

[R600]

I suspect it was because at that time it was all he was fed. No exact TF just over 10TF and he was tempering his own expectations.

Now he claims to have the spec sheets for both so now is the time to analyse further on what he says.

He cant answer now since he is at Alaska working 12hr night shifts.

 

[Ar¢tos]

64GB ReRAM will be more than enough, no need to get greedy. They don't need to fit the entire game in there, just the really important assets.

Apparently Sony ReRam is only available in 128GB or 256GB (16GB chips only, used in 8 or 16 chips layout. (the website with this info didn't explain why, probably related to speed).

 

[mckmas8808]

Whatever each game needs access to the most at any one time. So instead of taking up 2-3GB of GDDR as a dependable cache, you got like 64-128GB.

Most next gen games will still be made in mostly similar ways. What you see around you will be in main memory and as you move through the world new stuff gets streamed in. You won't need to have access to all 100GB of it at once.

That's mind bending stuff you are explaining here. But why would you need more than 64 GBs of data just for that though?