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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Imru’ al-Qays said:
Latest Moore's Law is Dead podcast has some interesting analysis:

"Consoles aren't holding back PC. . .everything is holding back PS5."
Click to expand...

In terms of loadtimes it is indeed true.
Loadtimes on PS5 are being heavy hold by PC development... games supposed to reach single digit loading are still having double digit loading in these old engines.

I want to see how Nanite will run on PC.
 
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L

Lakerfanalways

Neo Member
Hi everyone..have a question for those who have the xbox one series x console..I want to get an external hard drive..I saw at best buy the 14TB western digital easystore drive..but Ive read some who sa
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
ethomaz said:
In terms of loadtimes it is indeed true.
Loadtimes on PS5 are being heavy hold by PC development... games supposed to reach single digit loading are still having double digit loading in these old engines.

I want to see how Nanite will run on PC.
Click to expand...

I remain unconvinced load times are going to change that much.

Logically they aren't spending the majority of their time on asset loading at this point; even the raw speed of PS5 with no other optimizations can fill it's memory in a little over 2 seconds. So if a game is taking 20 seconds to load on PS5, it's spending most of that time doing other things.. so unless companies decide to stop doing those things they aren't going to all become instant load games.

The other evidence of this is the fairly consistent difference across XSX and PS5; it's like 2-3 seconds difference.. why? Because it takes more like 6 seconds for XSX raw speed to fill it's memory. Optimizing for that isn't going to change what else is going on during loads.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
IntentionalPun said:
I remain unconvinced load times are going to change that much.

Logically they aren't spending the majority of their time on asset loading at this point; even the raw speed of PS5 with no other optimizations can fill it's memory in a little over 2 seconds. So if a game is taking 20 seconds to load on PS5, it's spending most of that time doing other things.. so unless companies decide to stop doing those things they aren't going to all become instant load games.
Click to expand...
Well games like Miles Morales and Demon's Souls shows you can have below 4s load times.

If 3rd party games are loading in 20-30s is due something else they are doing in code and note SSD streaming.... they need to chance paradigms now.
 
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Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
Metroiddarks said:
Have better framerate a couple of seconds using some settings below PS5 just for lost in performance again the next couple of seconds
against the PS5 (which also load faster) is not the definition of clearly more powerful.

Not because I can run in a higher framerate a game in medium settings in PC compare to high settings in another PC with better specs means
the first example is more powerful, another example not because PS4 pro can run with a better framerate Anthem in a lower resolution means
is more power full than Xbox one X because that one is running the game in a much higher resolution.

The last month just show us both machines are incredible close and most of the cases PS5 won, get over.
Click to expand...
This screenshot cherry picking is ridiculous, you can show best and worst cases for both consoles. The best way to determine performance is to check which platform spends more time at the target fps, like in those charts VGTech provided.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
ethomaz said:
Well games like Miles Morales and Demon's Souls shows you can have below 4s load times.
Click to expand...

Sure; Sony is clearly designing for that beyond just optimizing asset loading though. They are clearly also doing less calculations during loading than other games.

It doesn't make sense that games like Borderlands 3 are taking ~15 seconds just for asset loading on PS5. The raw speed is so fast that any optimizations you do on top of it can only realistically trim a small amount of time off in the first place.

That's my logic at least; I don't see how any of these 15+ second games are going to suddenly become 2 second games because they take advantage of the SSD and compression hardware and what you can do with that. We don't even really know if they AREN'T already taking advantage of some of what you can do (load less assets up front, fetch more assets after loading, use texture compression, etc.)
 
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PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
Riky said:
The one with the best framerate that actually affects gameplay.
Click to expand...
But that's a paradox because unless you watch a video of entire games - side-by-side which defeats the point of playing a tad - then all we are going on is a small amount of analysed game time that has been intentionally served up that way.

In the PS3/360 days when we had demos many a parity clause focused on ensure the first level (the demo level we got to try) favoured (or was equal on) the system with that contract clause, and had later levels been analysed conclusions could have easily changed - looks a PS3 copy of Rage :)
 
T

Tmack

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
100%, here's the original photo:

Eo-K5k-Hp-W4-AAGIXp-jpeg.jpg
Click to expand...


The "price reduction" is due to temporary Covid related VAT reduction in Germany (US gafers remember euro prices are final, there`s no "sales tax" included later).

Is the PS5 had stock avaible, it would go for $476 or something like that.
 
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T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
Imtjnotu said:
I need nanite to be a thing now lol. Wonder what Sony's first party implementation will be
Click to expand...
I think the UE5 demo was just a taste.....literally just a taste, I think we are going to see some absolutely insane things when it comes to the second and third wave of games so around 2022 onwards, I don't think a lot of understand what is coming our way.
Codexer said:
Click to expand...

Seems like God of War sequel marketing is going to ramp up soon!
 
Coulomb_Barrier

Coulomb_Barrier

Member
Three Jackdaws said:
I think the UE5 demo was just a taste.....literally just a taste, I think we are going to see some absolutely insane things when it comes to the second and third wave of games so around 2022 onwards, I don't think a lot of understand what is coming our way.

Seems like God of War sequel marketing is going to ramp up soon!
Click to expand...

Fucking please not cross gen. Would be so disappointing. Can't wait for any footage though.
 
W

Werewolfgrandma

Banned
ethomaz said:
In terms of loadtimes it is indeed true.
Loadtimes on PS5 are being heavy hold by PC development... games supposed to reach single digit loading are still having double digit loading in these old engines.

I want to see how Nanite will run on PC.
Click to expand...
Fine? Now that the consoles aren't balls devs can finally make games for fast drives.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Three Jackdaws said:
Jim Ryan and Sony execs know dam well that they'll need games with such a high calibre that they'll be considered "next-gen console sellers" so I wouldn't be too worried when it comes to the number of true next gen games.
Click to expand...
I actually think Sony know the PS5 will sell more than units than they can produce for the initial 12-24 months, and therefore can get away with cross gen AAA games in 2020/21.

They get to sell millions of copies to PS4 owners, but still market them as PS5 games. And by 2022 when they need true exclusives to sell PS5s, they'll have them (Spider-Man 2, etc.)

Worked fine for Nintendo with Zelda Breath of the Wild and Mario Kart 8 on Switch.
 
rickybooby87

rickybooby87

Member
What's everyone thoughts on RGT's latest information in regards to unified cache for it's Zen2 clusters, and potentially, infinity fabric for the APU?

 
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T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
rickybooby87 said:
What's everyone thoughts on RGT's latest information in regards to unified cache for it's Zen2 clusters, and potentially, infinity fabric for the APU?

Click to expand...

"I was also told by another developer and this was more recent, they believe the PS5 does have a variant of the Infinity Cache but it does not work the same for RDNA 2 for desktop, it's different and again I'm trying to find more details...it would make sense because I was told that cache coherency for the PS5 was incredibly important".

I remember he reported this a while back, really curious to how it plays out. I don't think this Infinity Cache variant is some secret sauce, in fact I think the secret sauce has been in front of us the whole time, it's the design philosophy of the PS5 as whole which is massive date throughput with extreme low latency access, in fact if you look at all the features in the PS5 like the cache scrubbers, Geometry Engine, high GPU clock, cache coherency, dedicated I/O silicon and possible unified L3 cache, they all play a role in this design philosophy.
 
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TheGejsza

TheGejsza

Member
So do we expect any game from Sony on Christmas? My only bet would be Ratchet & Clank but I highly doubt the announcement of release would be so short before actual release.
 
thebigmanjosh

thebigmanjosh

Member
TheGejsza said:
So do we expect any game from Sony on Christmas? My only bet would be Ratchet & Clank but I highly doubt the announcement of release would be so short before actual release.
Click to expand...

Doubt we'll see anything significant before the end of the year.

Even for A-AA titles like R&C expect at least 2-3 months of runway for marketing.
 
Metroiddarks

Metroiddarks

Member
TheGejsza said:
So do we expect any game from Sony on Christmas? My only bet would be Ratchet & Clank but I highly doubt the announcement of release would be so short before actual release.
Click to expand...
Release a Game in December is a bad idea, yes I know sounds weird but this how the market works at least your
franchise is big enough aka Smash or Cyberpunk even then you need months of marketing for a AA or AAA game
also Sony I don't think will say buy Ratchet for PS5 in the next 3 weeks.

Rachet should be January or February.
 
Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
Mr Moose said:
4k 60fps patch coming to new gen for Division 2, apparently.
Click to expand...
Here’s the sauce, yes sauce....

seasonedgaming.com

Ubisoft Confirms Next-Gen Upgrade for The Division 2 on PS5 and Xbox Series X / S

One of the larger titles from Ubisoft that players have been wanting a "next-gen" update for has been The Division 2. Thankfully, it seems that time is
seasonedgaming.com seasonedgaming.com

Edit: we also know of these getting free next gen upgrades...

For Honour
Ghost Recon Breakpoint

anything else from ubi?
 
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J_Gamer.exe

J_Gamer.exe

Member
Now that the borderlands 3 comparison is out anyone remember this?

'PS5 dev kit is a bit easier to work with. Its well thought out and designed in ways that make it a bit easier to tweak and change things vs Anaconda. To say I prefer one over the other isn't' really fair because both are very good, but its just a bit easier to work with PS5. But Anaconda has the upper hand in terms of us being able to really push effects. The difference will come down to effects over resolution for us. We have both dev kits pushing 4K/60 on Borderlands 3 and we have almost zero loading times on both kits. Looking at them side by side the image is very similar'


Does the video make this almost false now then? No better effects mentioned in comparison on xbox but better shadows and foliage density on ps5.... 🤔

Did they get the labels mixed up on the dev kits or something....

giphy.gif


www.neogaf.com

Developer Speaks About Lockhart "Holding Back Next Gen." And PS5 VS XSX Dev Kits.

Decided to ask a buddy of mine in the industry about the Lockhart and Series X vs PS5 and what he thinks so far. He is working on Borderlands 3 for Next Gen right now. Vetted by Bill O'Rights When I asked about Lockhart "holding back next gen." He had this to say: "I really hate this term as...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
J_Gamer.exe said:
Now that the borderlands 3 comparison is out anyone remember this?

'PS5 dev kit is a bit easier to work with. Its well thought out and designed in ways that make it a bit easier to tweak and change things vs Anaconda. To say I prefer one over the other isn't' really fair because both are very good, but its just a bit easier to work with PS5. But Anaconda has the upper hand in terms of us being able to really push effects. The difference will come down to effects over resolution for us. We have both dev kits pushing 4K/60 on Borderlands 3 and we have almost zero loading times on both kits. Looking at them side by side the image is very similar'


Does the video make this almost false now then? No better effects mentioned in comparison on xbox but better shadows and foliage density on ps5.... 🤔

Did they get the labels mixed up on the dev kits or something....

giphy.gif


www.neogaf.com

Developer Speaks About Lockhart "Holding Back Next Gen." And PS5 VS XSX Dev Kits.

Decided to ask a buddy of mine in the industry about the Lockhart and Series X vs PS5 and what he thinks so far. He is working on Borderlands 3 for Next Gen right now. Vetted by Bill O'Rights When I asked about Lockhart "holding back next gen." He had this to say: "I really hate this term as...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
Click to expand...

Maybe the older dev kits were more powerful than the current ones?

That's the only way that I can see they still be true because many games were originally made on dev kits using 2080Tis. Maybe the actual GPU is weaker than that so when they got the latest kits they had to downgrade somethings.

That's the only theory that makes sense to me and supports that vetted leak.
 
J_Gamer.exe

J_Gamer.exe

Member
MasterCornholio said:
Maybe the older dev kits were more powerful than the current ones?

That's the only way that I can see they still be true because many games were originally made on dev kits using 2080Tis. Maybe the actual GPU is weaker than that so when they got the latest kits they had to downgrade somethings.

That's the only theory that makes sense to me and supports that vetted leak.
Click to expand...

Well just because something is vetted doesn't always mean its accurate, just somethings has been checked from where they claim presumably, the info may still be wrong or just a guys opinion who works somewhere without full knowledge etc, but proof of the source being legit etc, I don't know.

Didn't R roops67 go after they guy who posted this claiming it was bull? Seem to remember something?
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
IntentionalPun said:
I remain unconvinced load times are going to change that much.

Logically they aren't spending the majority of their time on asset loading at this point; even the raw speed of PS5 with no other optimizations can fill it's memory in a little over 2 seconds. So if a game is taking 20 seconds to load on PS5, it's spending most of that time doing other things.. so unless companies decide to stop doing those things they aren't going to all become instant load games.

The other evidence of this is the fairly consistent difference across XSX and PS5; it's like 2-3 seconds difference.. why? Because it takes more like 6 seconds for XSX raw speed to fill it's memory. Optimizing for that isn't going to change what else is going on during loads.
Click to expand...
I find it curious that so many games are taking forever compared to the 1-2 second loadings in spiderman, astro bot and demon souls. You are right in that loading into the memory should only take a little over 2 seconds. However, the rest of the stuff that might be happening behind the scenes is all done by the CPU and that stuff happens in microseconds. Instantiating a world simply doesnt take as long as loading data into memory. if anything, the insanely fast CPUs should make that even faster.

The borderlands devs told DF that once they optimize their engine around the new systems, the loading times will get even faster. So i think it's the way the engines are built to send data back and forth. I am guessing these devs were pulling some fancy tricks to load data in parallel to account for the slower CPU and now they will have to rearchitect the code to get it to run faster.
 
Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
SlimySnake said:
I find it curious that so many games are taking forever compared to the 1-2 second loadings in spiderman, astro bot and demon souls. You are right in that loading into the memory should only take a little over 2 seconds. However, the rest of the stuff that might be happening behind the scenes is all done by the CPU and that stuff happens in microseconds. Instantiating a world simply doesnt take as long as loading data into memory. if anything, the insanely fast CPUs should make that even faster.

The borderlands devs told DF that once they optimize their engine around the new systems, the loading times will get even faster. So i think it's the way the engines are built to send data back and forth. I am guessing these devs were pulling some fancy tricks to load data in parallel to account for the slower CPU and now they will have to rearchitect the code to get it to run faster.
Click to expand...
Indeed, it's not a complicated mystery. To essentially reword exactly what you're saying;

For the loading to be utilized directly from SSD to RAM, the data structures and assets need to be GPU ready, aka next gen compliant in principal design. All long loaders are clearly still using last gen structures which need to be massaged with processing before being ready and delivered into ram.

Sony 1st party obviously embracing it day 1. 3rd party still dealing with cross gen legacy. Things will slowly change.
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
J_Gamer.exe said:
Now that the borderlands 3 comparison is out anyone remember this?

'PS5 dev kit is a bit easier to work with. Its well thought out and designed in ways that make it a bit easier to tweak and change things vs Anaconda. To say I prefer one over the other isn't' really fair because both are very good, but its just a bit easier to work with PS5. But Anaconda has the upper hand in terms of us being able to really push effects. The difference will come down to effects over resolution for us. We have both dev kits pushing 4K/60 on Borderlands 3 and we have almost zero loading times on both kits. Looking at them side by side the image is very similar'


Does the video make this almost false now then? No better effects mentioned in comparison on xbox but better shadows and foliage density on ps5.... 🤔

Did they get the labels mixed up on the dev kits or something....

giphy.gif


www.neogaf.com

Developer Speaks About Lockhart "Holding Back Next Gen." And PS5 VS XSX Dev Kits.

Decided to ask a buddy of mine in the industry about the Lockhart and Series X vs PS5 and what he thinks so far. He is working on Borderlands 3 for Next Gen right now. Vetted by Bill O'Rights When I asked about Lockhart "holding back next gen." He had this to say: "I really hate this term as...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
Click to expand...

The quote was probably just what the dev had thought about them and had probably been told to that point by all the marketing and advocate folk. So with a small TF advantage it would be reasonable to assume that you could push a little more to that system. Just hasn't worked out in practice, at least so far.
 
TwistedSyn

TwistedSyn

Member
I don't have the new Xbox but, is this normal? Dan of Gigaboots just posted this video and apparently if games have Smart Delivery attached to them they take forever to download. In the video he basically re-enacts his experience with MS costumer service on this issue. I think his Series X is making him have a mental breakdown.

 
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Dargor

Dargor

Member
This should be a learning moment for all the warrior out there, but who am I kidding, they'll learn nothing, just like the dozens upon dozens of other learning moments that have already passed us by.
 
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