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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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TheThreadsThatBindUs

TheThreadsThatBindUs

Member
If a rendering engineer, i.e. expert in the field, (as per @villentretenmerth's comment from his colleague working in the industry) is saying that what Nanite is doing is culling, and you're arguing otherwise as an uninformed layperson, I'm sorry but you're wrong and you should simply STFU and admit it as such.

The continued attempts to construct strawmen arguments and make ad hominem attacks just demonstrates how untenable is the position you'e arguing from.

This isn't the hill you choose to die on, mate.
 
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IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
If a rendering engineer, i.e. expert in the field, (as per @villentretenmerth's comment from his colleague working in the industry) is saying that what Nanite is doing is culling, and you're arguing otherwise as an uninformed layperson, I'm sorry but you're wrong and you should simply STFU and admit it as such.

The continues attempts to construct strawmen arguments and make ad hominem attacks just demonstrates how untenable is the position you'e arguing from.

This isn't the hill you choose to die on, mate.
Click to expand...
Me: "UE5 goes from 1 billion polygons to 20 million lossless"

You: "This is absurdly false. How can you call a reduction of polygons "lossless""

Epic: "There are over a billion triangles of source geometry in each frame, that Nanite crunches down losslessly to around 20 million drawn triangles"
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs

TheThreadsThatBindUs

Member
IntentionalPun said:
Me: "UE5 goes from 1 billion polygons to 20 million lossless"

You: "This is absurdly false. How can you call a reduction of polygons "lossless""

Epic: "There are over a billion triangles of source geometry in each frame, that Nanite crunches down losslessly to around 20 million drawn triangles"
Click to expand...
For the record, what this means:

"This is absurdly false. How can you call a reduction of polygons "lossless""

Is the same as saying "culling isn't lossless"... it isn't.

What Epic is talking about is the entire Nanite geometry processing pipeline in software (which encompasses culling). From the perspective of the assets on the disk, the overall generation of lower poly models for rendering, that all happens automatically on the fly, it is lossless because the base assets on the disk are unchanged.

Again, I was discussing culling from the perspective of the mesh input to the culling step. Epic was discussing the entire geometry processing pipeline from the perspective of the base assets on the disk.

So two different frames of reference.

I know I'm wasting my time anyway, because you won't listen and will continue to post this BS above, because of your lack of ability to grasp the nuance of what I've clarified now numerous times.

Keep repeating this gross mis-construal of the the discourse as if it will somehow make it valid.

it's done, let it die. You've shown how juvenile you can be. We don't really need anymore of your BS derailing the thread.
 
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TheRedRiders

TheRedRiders

Member
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
If a rendering engineer, i.e. expert in the field, (as per @villentretenmerth's comment from his colleague working in the industry) is saying that what Nanite is doing is culling, and you're arguing otherwise as an uninformed layperson, I'm sorry but you're wrong and you should simply STFU and admit it as such.

The continues attempts to construct strawmen arguments and make ad hominem attacks just demonstrates how untenable is the position you'e arguing from.

This isn't the hill you choose to die on, mate.
Click to expand...
We don't even need my friend's expertise in this, honestly. I think your explanation on the terminology of the word "culling" as well as your exposition of culling techniques within the context of the UE5 technical demo is more than sufficient. If people are unwilling to learn then that is their problem.
 
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IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Is the same as saying "culling isn't lossless"... it isn't.
Click to expand...

Epic said their process of going from 1 billion polygons to 20 million polygons, is lossless.

Get that through your head.

I don't give a shit that you meant "culling isn't lossless", Epic said their process was lossless.. the process they refer to as scaling... a process I NEVER CALLED CULLING.. (nor has.. Epic.. called it culling)

So if culling.. is never lossless... and epic said their process was lossless.... hmmmmmmm.

it's done, let it die.
Click to expand...

I am not here to answer to you; you keep saying you aren't going to respond. I'm not going to stop responding as long as you keep deflecting.

How is a conversation about a hotly anticipated next-gen engine a derail of this thread?
 
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D

DinoD

Member
SlimySnake said:
I wish I could cull this discussion from this thread.
Click to expand...

Heck No! I want to keep watching.
michael jackson smile GIF
 
Zadom

Zadom

Member
IntentionalPun said:
Epic said their process of going from 1 billion polygons to 20 million polygons, is lossless.

Get that through your head.

I don't give a shit that you meant "culling isn't lossless", Epic said their process was lossless.. the process they refer to as scaling... a process I NEVER CALLED CULLING.. (nor has.. Epic.. called it culling)

So if culling.. is never lossless... and epic said their process was lossless.... hmmmmmmm.



I am not here to answer to you; you keep saying you aren't going to respond. I'm not going to stop responding as long as you keep deflecting.

How is a conversation about a hotly anticipated next-gen engine a derail of this thread?
Click to expand...
7OZOMNR.jpg


I am actually enjoying the debate and have no idea who is right or wrong. Carry on.
 
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LiquidRex

LiquidRex

Member
I just can't help but be disappointed with those Control presets on the PS5, so many Low and disabled graphical features... I'd love to know how much of the consoles potential is actually utilitized with this port.
AuQXGy9.jpg

This image below for an example, just look how flat that wheel is without the shadow present.
0VDktO4.jpg
 
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D

DinoD

Member
LiquidRex said:
I just can't help but be disappointed with those Control presets on the PS5, so many Low and disabled graphical features... I'd love to know how much of the consoles potential is actually utilitized with this port.
AuQXGy9.jpg

This image below for an example, just look how flat that wheel is without the shadow present.
0VDktO4.jpg
Click to expand...
Just wait for XB SX and PS5 comparison and watch the meltdown. :D
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
DinoD said:
Just wait for XB SX and PS5 comparison and watch the meltdown. :D
Click to expand...
Meh. Everyone can have their enjoyment about comparing backwards compatibility versions of games like this, CyberPunk, etc. I could care less. Show me one XSX game that looks and runs as well as just Demon's Souls even. I'll wait. How about SpiderMan?

And in the end, WHO CARES? If you have an XSX, you are going to enjoy the hell out of it. If you have the PS5, you'll enjoy the hell out of it. That's all that matters in the end.

I just think that these comparisons of code running in BC mode are just silly. That's why you're seeing results that at times, just don't make sense.
 
D

DinoD

Member
Sinthor said:
Meh. Everyone can have their enjoyment about comparing backwards compatibility versions of games like this, CyberPunk, etc. I could care less. Show me one XSX game that looks and runs as well as just Demon's Souls even. I'll wait. How about SpiderMan?

And in the end, WHO CARES? If you have an XSX, you are going to enjoy the hell out of it. If you have the PS5, you'll enjoy the hell out of it. That's all that matters in the end.

I just think that these comparisons of code running in BC mode are just silly. That's why you're seeing results that at times, just don't make sense.
Click to expand...

I won't go into meltdown mode. I am firmly attached to my PS5, and I don't care about RT TBH.
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
DinoD said:
I won't go into meltdown mode. I am firmly attached to my PS5, and I don't care about RT TBH.
Click to expand...
Heh. I hear ya! Wasn't pointing that squarely at YOU either...suppose I should have been clear about it in the post. I just find myself mildly amused with the comparisons of the BC games. 'Wow, PS5 CRUSHING Xbox with this game!' or the reverse. Just.....I just don't think it's a very valid comparison. Especially since we know the BC tools and code base are pretty widely varied. Now, maybe when we have some third party games that are 'next gen native?' that will change. But I think the real squeeze is in comparing the first party exclusives. And yes.. I know....and that's not a shot at the Xbox folks as there aren't many of those titles right now. They WILL be there.

I keep repeating this, but I had a good number of friends who got the Xbox One when I got my PS4. At first they were crushed when they read all the comparisons showing the XB1 'only' ran this or that game at '900p' and not 'full HD 1080p.' But when they came over to my place they realized, they couldn't tell the difference! We needed Digital Foundry videos and 300x zoom to 'show us' the power difference back then that was about 40%!! With far less difference this time, even assuming the 'on paper' numbers DO represent reality (I don't think they do, but it's possible), how the HELL are we going to tell? So the only real differences and good things will be, I guess, for those who just love to brag that they have the BEST version of the game. Console only of course because PSSST! PC will have the best version at least eventually, EVERY time for games that are ON PC of course. :)

That's it. Right now with these BC games we can sometimes see real, noticeable differences and issues....so the grifters are really making hay with it. But that's gonna change folks...and the smart money says it will change in a way that you probably can't tell the difference, OR one platform may be noticeably better at X in a game while the other does better at Y.

That's all I'm trying to say. Maybe I'm getting too old...I just don't get off on yelling 'My console plays X game at TRUE 1080p HD and YOURS only does 900p!' anymore. I just want to play awesome games and have fun.

I have to say that right now, these BC games are disappointing me a lot. I'm not even going to play Cyberpunk until there's a PS5 patch for it at least. It will never be native but by then they will have fixed a lot of bugs and performance issues and if it's actually a decent 'native' patch it should perform very well. The only games that have impressed me so far are SpiderMan, Demon's Souls and Godfall (yes, Godfall!). Assassins Creed is...well...Assassins Creed. Looks great and runs great but....the wow factor just isn't there. Haven't gotten into Watch Dogs Legion yet but what I've read doesn't encourage me. Glad I got those two on disk instead of digital so I can trade them in when I'm done. Hell, even the ManEater PS5 version is impressive! So I'm going to stick mostly with native games I think. We'll see how it goes.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
LiquidRex said:
I just can't help but be disappointed with those Control presets on the PS5, so many Low and disabled graphical features... I'd love to know how much of the consoles potential is actually utilitized with this port.
AuQXGy9.jpg

This image below for an example, just look how flat that wheel is without the shadow present.
0VDktO4.jpg
Click to expand...
look at the other shadows though. the pipe, the shadows behind the pump. watch the footage and then watch the pc footage in ultra settings. put them side by side if you have a big enough monitor and see if you can tell the difference in motion.

I am not saying its not disappointing, it really is. But the difference between low to high settings in this game isnt really that stark unless you really go in and view things under a microscope.

someone on era posted this video of the PC settings going from low to high. the difference is barely even noticeable.

 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
SlimySnake said:
look at the other shadows though. the pipe, the shadows behind the pump. watch the footage and then watch the pc footage in ultra settings. put them side by side if you have a big enough monitor and see if you can tell the difference in motion.

I am not saying its not disappointing, it really is. But the difference between low to high settings in this game isnt really that stark unless you really go in and view things under a microscope.

someone on era posted this video of the PC settings going from low to high. the difference is barely even noticeable.

Click to expand...

Wow. And NONE of those modes look as good as Demon's Souls! Point, Game, Match! :messenger_winking_tongue:

 
MatrixReloaded101

MatrixReloaded101

Member
LiquidRex said:
I just can't help but be disappointed with those Control presets on the PS5, so many Low and disabled graphical features... I'd love to know how much of the consoles potential is actually utilitized with this port.
AuQXGy9.jpg

This image below for an example, just look how flat that wheel is without the shadow present.
0VDktO4.jpg
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that this is a third party game that was made by a small team.

You can’t compare specs from a $500 console to a high end PC. I think some people just need to dial back there expectations and just get back to actually playing video games for fun.
 
BatSu

BatSu

Member
LiquidRex said:
I just can't help but be disappointed with those Control presets on the PS5, so many Low and disabled graphical features... I'd love to know how much of the consoles potential is actually utilitized with this port.
AuQXGy9.jpg

This image below for an example, just look how flat that wheel is without the shadow present.
0VDktO4.jpg
Click to expand...
tenor.gif
 
LiquidRex

LiquidRex

Member
MatrixReloaded101 said:
Keep in mind that this is a third party game that was made by a small team.

You can’t compare specs from a $500 console to a high end PC. I think some people just need to dial back there expectations and just get back to actually playing video games for fun.
Click to expand...
I understand that, but is it so important to push for high resolution, I mean if having those presets up'd a notch at the caveat of running at say 1440p, I'd take a resolution drop everytime. 😕

It's a given apart from first party studio's, these consoles just won't run third party titles 4K 60fps without dail backs, because those studios just won't put in the time to take full advantage of the consoles architecture.

Let's have a resolution preset option... 1080p, 1440p, 1800p...

Ops I ballsed up preset set to render 1440p... But you get the gist. 😜
 
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MatrixReloaded101

MatrixReloaded101

Member
LiquidRex said:
I understand that, but is it so important to push for high resolution, I mean if having those presets up'd a notch at the caveat of running at say 1440p, I'd take a resolution drop everytime. 😕

It's a given apart from first party studio's, these consoles just won't run third party titles 4K 60fps without dail backs, because those studios just won't put in the time to take full advantage of the consoles architecture.

Let's have a resolution preset option... 1080p, 1440p, 1800p...

Ops I ballsed up preset set to render 1440p... But you get the gist. 😜
Click to expand...

We are only 3 months into the life cycle of these new consoles. I am sure third party titles will take more advantage of the hardware as time passes.

That’s the downside to buying new consoles at launch..... everything is a waiting game.
 
3liteDragon

3liteDragon

Member
SlimySnake said:
look at the other shadows though. the pipe, the shadows behind the pump. watch the footage and then watch the pc footage in ultra settings. put them side by side if you have a big enough monitor and see if you can tell the difference in motion.

I am not saying its not disappointing, it really is. But the difference between low to high settings in this game isnt really that stark unless you really go in and view things under a microscope.

someone on era posted this video of the PC settings going from low to high. the difference is barely even noticeable.

Click to expand...

Those shadows on PC are coming from ray-tracing (ray-traced contact shadows). The PS5 version has support for ray-traced reflections and ray-traced transparency reflections (for windows) only.
 
StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
LiquidRex said:
I just can't help but be disappointed with those Control presets on the PS5, so many Low and disabled graphical features... I'd love to know how much of the consoles potential is actually utilitized with this port.
AuQXGy9.jpg

This image below for an example, just look how flat that wheel is without the shadow present.
0VDktO4.jpg
Click to expand...
I find it amazing the LOD filter is set even lower than PC low.
 
chilichote

chilichote

Member
assurdum said:
Enjoy to the meltdown, not exactly the most technical but it gives an idea:

It's practically the same, I just noticed lower resolution in raytracing reflection in a metal basket on series X in the final part of the video but couldn't mean nothing.
Click to expand...

- PS5 and Series X tuns at 2560x1440p.
- The framerate runs mostly stable on both platforms, although some more drops in Series X.
- Ray-tracing more limited on consoles compared to PC. In some highlights there are fewer elements on PS5 anecdotally. Despite this, it is the best RT we currently have on consoles.
- The input lag in graphics mode is higher than in Oldgen versions. Quite annoying.
- Reflections without ray-tracing suffer from issues with the character model. This did not happen in the Oldgen versions.
- There is a bug that causes a desynchronization in the animation of the protagonist when running.
- The Xbox version still has some freezing problems when pausing the game or accessing the map.
- PS5 has a too dark tone, which forces to increase the brightness to obtain a similar result to the other versions.
Click to expand...
 
Mr. PlayStation

Mr. PlayStation

Member
I am yet to play Control yet, download is complete. By the initial analysis of the game on next gen consoles has been lukewarm? The 60fps option is neat, but the graphics mode offering feels weak? Maybe I am wrong and I need to experience it first before commenting further
 
Barakov

Barakov

Member
LiquidRex said:
I just can't help but be disappointed with those Control presets on the PS5, so many Low and disabled graphical features... I'd love to know how much of the consoles potential is actually utilitized with this port.
AuQXGy9.jpg

This image below for an example, just look how flat that wheel is without the shadow present.
0VDktO4.jpg
Click to expand...
PC gaming going hamster.
 
kingkenny76

kingkenny76

Member
LiquidRex said:
I just can't help but be disappointed with those Control presets on the PS5, so many Low and disabled graphical features... I'd love to know how much of the consoles potential is actually utilitized with this port.
AuQXGy9.jpg

This image below for an example, just look how flat that wheel is without the shadow present.
0VDktO4.jpg
Click to expand...
What setting is it running on XSX? Have DF done XSX or just PS5 to PC?
 
carloseduardocd

carloseduardocd

Member
twistedvoxel.com

Control Ultimate Edition Is 42% Smaller On PS5 Than XSX Thanks To Better Compression Tech

Control Ultimate Edition has a smaller file size on the PS5 and this is one of the best examples of Kraken Compression, especially if we compare it to XSX.
twistedvoxel.com twistedvoxel.com

My take is. Xbox Series X and PC both 42GB. Probably both under the same GDK.

PS5 don't have compromisses with PC. It's a standalone version, and can use fully Oodle Textures capabilities.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
carloseduardocd said:
twistedvoxel.com

Control Ultimate Edition Is 42% Smaller On PS5 Than XSX Thanks To Better Compression Tech

Control Ultimate Edition has a smaller file size on the PS5 and this is one of the best examples of Kraken Compression, especially if we compare it to XSX.
twistedvoxel.com twistedvoxel.com

My take is. Xbox Series X and PC both 42GB. Probably both under the same GDK.

PS5 don't have compromisses with PC. It's a standalone version, and can use fully Oodle Textures capabilities.
Click to expand...
I don't think any PC game released in 2019 would be using the GDK. It was in early beta for PC in 2020 I think.
 
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