Insane Metal
Member
War... console war never changes.
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ethomaz
Banned
You need to see what the Launch client wars looks like lol
Fake
Member
Actually change. New tech, new recruits, new ways of astrosturf... All people shit.
Client wars are the new hit.
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LordOfChaos
Member
ethomaz
Banned
Did you not hear?24TF, they would have to use 2x Navi GPU's to do the job, but who knows maybe MS will surprise us with 1000$ console
.
MS announced Crossfire X at E3.
Lockhart = 1 GPU = $499
Anaconda = 2 GPU = $999
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LordOfChaos
Member
Fireside Chat with Ian and Wendell: Ryzen 3000, Zen 2, Navi, Xeon W
ethomaz
Banned
AnandTech tried to go YouTube when they do best with articles.Fireside Chat with Ian and Wendell: Ryzen 3000, Zen 2, Navi, Xeon W
www.anandtech.com
Sad.
pawel86ck
Banned
If that's they case MS should release 24TF 1000$ console just for fun
. PCMR guys would no longer say technological progress is slowing down because of consoles .
LordOfChaos
Member
I think youtube killed much of the markets attention spans for the sort of deep dives they were known for. Sucks. But I still welcome them doing video and podcasts alongside those articles.
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ethomaz
Banned
For an interview I guess it is fine.
It just I got a lot more form articles than YouTube videos where most guys repeat the same thing for over a minute.
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SpinningBirdKick
Banned
I love the smell of astroturf in the morning.
Evilms
Banned
Head of Xbox Spencer on Project Scarlett Price: 'We Have a Design Price in Mind And I Think We're Going to Hit That'
twinfinite.net
Phil Spencer Will Announce Project Scarlett's Price ASAP; Talks Design, Games Not Shown at E3, & Much More
Today, during a livestream on Mixer, Microsoft's Xbox division head Phil Spencer talked about Project Scarlett, the company's E3 show and preparations for
twinfinite.net
Gamernyc78
Banned
If that's they case MS should release 24TF 1000$ console just for fun
Funny enough if it was Sony releasing 24tf at 1000 I'd consider it
TeamGhobad
Banned
consoles are all about getting the most CUs on the soc as possible. seems easy but companies manage to fuck this up.
SquireDalbridge
Neo Member
First of All I read the thread and I see People suggesting Xbox one Scarlett to be 24 TF. IS this not Trolling around every one with sound mind knows the cost for this would be elusive. its like jumping a generation ahead. Then the dreaming of 12 core Zen2 CPU have you seen the cost of this CPU. Both option are simply a madman's dream especially the first one. Its you jumper In the Future. The PS5 and Xbox Scarlett Will both have a Zen2 3700x and the same navi Gpu only differance one Will be more powerfull then the other Maybe 1 TF. But I hope thAt MS boost the Zen2 CPU to iT limits becAuse I dont want to be robbed again. I Hated the scheme of these big corporative Heads and Big Suits making ps4 and ps4 pro or Xbox one or Xbox one X. They only boosted the CPU to their limits. the GPU was only to output 4K.
So please MS I hop this generation is a one Console Cycle era. Pls boost the Zen2 cpu to its limits. I dont want to be Victim of Sony and MS money greed again
So please MS I hop this generation is a one Console Cycle era. Pls boost the Zen2 cpu to its limits. I dont want to be Victim of Sony and MS money greed again
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Unless you're targeting different use cases for your tech. Like multiple console configurations and data centres for example.
An oldie but a goldie:
- PlayStation #4ThePlayers
- Xbox #4TheDataCenters
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Mass Shift
Member
24TF
With Navi's efficiency you wouldn't need dual GPUs at all to reach Microsoft's 4x Xbox One X claim. And they wouldn't need to multiply the entire BOM. So I could see the added CUs, additional memory, and PSU coming in $200 over the base model's price.
The one reason why I think Microsoft might do it is that they endured so much butthurt over Xbox One's specs that they just threw the One X out there to mitigate some of the criticism. I definitely could seen them doing it again just for those reasons. It ends the power debate without having to rely on the more expensive sku to contribute strongly to the overall install base.
TeamGhobad
Banned
so you also heard the rumors...damn shame.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Not heard anything.
But if there's an agenda I imagine it's so MS can try and spin it some how. Sony will typically stay quiet and let their games do the talking when revealed. That's not really an option for MS.
I think Xbox will have more active CUs, it's obvious. They're going for wide and slow and are not targeting a mass market box with Anaconda. So they can be more aggressive especially with chiplets and binning.
Overall I expect Anaconda to under perform the PS5 in real world uses cases though.
GermanZepp
Member
Is thay guy really you?Me waiting for news/leaks:
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CyberPanda
Banned
SonGoku isn’t malnourished and he’s better looking than that.
GermanZepp
Member
CyberPanda
Banned
You don’t say?
SonGoku
Member
PS3 used CELL to aid the GPU in graphic tasks, when exploited the PS3 was slightly more capable than 360.
360 was the better designed machine
I don't think this is a controversial take as is widely accepted
Why lol
TeamGhobad
Banned
Me waiting for news/leaks:
i feel ya brother. any kind of leak would work right now, even a fake one.
TLZ
Banned
Negotiator
Member
That doesn't make sense to me. I won't even mention the fact that having a Sony (or Microsoft) monopoly isn't beneficial to anyone. We need both companies to keep each other in check.
Why would they stop developing XBOX hardware? Especially now that they can use the exact same PCBs on xCloud...
People will nonchalantly say "buy a PC", but have they forgotten the myriads of configurations and what that means for developers?
Someone had mentioned that Gears of War 4 is broken with the latest nVidia drivers. Would that ever happen on a console? Absolutely unacceptable IMHO.
No wonder they cost an arm and a leg... yields are abysmal, even on ancient 12nm. One (non-CU) defect and you throw the whole big ass die in the garbage bin.
If PS6 and next-next gen XBOX ever come out (2027 and beyond), I expect them to use chiplets and HBM3+ memory.
For now this kind of tech is a bit niche for console APUs.
More TF needs more memory bandwidth to feed those hungry ALUs.
AI will be dictated by the baseline (8 cores), physics can run on the GPU and framerate won't be improved that much, even if it scales up to 12 cores.
The revenge of the 2nd hidden dGPU... courtesy of MisterXmedia!
Only if 24TF becomes the baseline.If that's they case MS should release 24TF 1000$ console just for fun
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TeamGhobad
Banned
im bored:
edit: seems navi runs hot and is a powerhog. 40CUs and it wants 225watts.
edit: seems navi runs hot and is a powerhog. 40CUs and it wants 225watts.
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SonGoku
Member
nvidia takes high margins on those cards though
RTX2060 is 445mm2 and costs $350
For separate GPU-CPU die sure, but chiplet GPU? not so sure
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Pretty much every MS endeavour in recent memory has been a "me too" product that has failed to surpass the product that inspired it.
- iPod : Zune
- iPad : Surface
- PlayStation : Xbox
- Steam : Microsoft Store
- Siri : Cortana
- Google : Bing
Even MS's current darling, Azure, is band wagon chasing the success of AWS.
Microsoft is always coming up a day late and a dollar short.
Why? Because of the corporate culture. You're not going to get innovation if you don't take risks. You can't take risks because the personal loss is too great in that type of environment. Did Mattrick get another chance? Oh no. So what do you do to try and make a difference? You adapt something that is already popular. It's low risk ("It's working for them, it should work for us too!") but it means that you're already competing with hugely successful products that are loved and used by many. It's a difficult sell to tempt people over to your new offering.
MS are all about services these days. Office 365 subscriptions and the rest are massive money spinners for MS.
GamePass is just the next in a long line of MS xerox copies of other external already successful offerings to take advantage of the services model. Sell a full price hard copy of a game for $60 every year to the casuals. Or change them $10 a month whether they use the digital service or not. Which do you think a profit hungry corporation prefers?
Would any company really bother making costly hardware if they could avoid it? Why not let people play your content on any device they already own for a low monthly fee? Do away with all those terrible R&D costs, physical products and creation. Instead make billions just acting as a middle man for their own and third party content.
The only problem with this service model is that you need great content and you continuously need to keep adding it too. Think of HBO and the Sopranos, Game of Thrones. Or Netflix and Stranger Things. Disney's upcoming streaming offering with exclusive Star Wars and Marvel content. All great offerings that people are dying to get their hands on.
Microsoft are in the tricky position where they have signalled that they want to do this (MS games on other platforms was the first step) but the content they're offering is lacking. Content that is so weak that their own first party titles don't even register in the top ten most popular titles on their own platform. How many Nintendo or Sony players are going to be queuing up to get their hands on Forza, Gears, Halo and the rest? Not enough, I would guess. There are too many great games already on other platforms. If there was real demand, the platform offering those games would be more popular. The closest thing MS have to this is Minecraft. Again, not something they produced themselves but bought after the tremendous demand was obvious.
So MS are on a buying spree for content creators. But are these smaller studios going to be pumping out AAA content on a regular basis? No, of course not. Their job is to produce titles that are only "good enough for GamePass"(tm). Snacks that will keep you occupied between AAA meals. Fillers that do just enough to keep you subscribed for that service revenue to continue rolling in. Think about these new studios staggering their releases, so you get something new each month. Titles may slip their original release date but you have other internal studios offerings to take up the slack. Maybe there's a title or two in there each year that has a bit bigger budget or more care and attention spent on it. Most current Xbox owners will probably be happy with that, right? But will people outside of the eco system be tempted to buy into the service and try? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell.
There are huge costs and undertakings to get things started - game development is expensive. Even the current number of studios isn't anywhere near enough to sustain this model. But once the service is popular, third parties will hopefully release more of their content there too or you can offer them incentives to do so.
Once the service has some decent momentum, you can slow down (and possibly eventually stop) your own releases and let third party offerings continue with the momentum - see Valve with Half Life/Portal etc to Steam only transition.
I have got to admire the ambition of the MS plan but the execution is sadly lacking. I'd be surprised if the Xbox hardware division has many throws of the dice left after this generation.
Of course MS will never admit this is the long term plan. But watch what they do, not what they say. All gamers will be oblivious to it, like good old boiling frogs should be.
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After E3 you all just go on and on, nothing substantial revealed.
The latest adoredtv video is informative. It shows Navi is power hungry, with 64 cu and above you are Looking at 300 watts... say goodbye to these numbers in consoles.
Max CU range in my opinion 36 to 48, 48 if cooling solutions are up to it. Max TF imo 10. But the added Ray Tracing Hardware will make up for the 9 - 10 TF range , imo the 10+ dream is dead, with the launch of these consoles. Also everything will be under clocked 1500 MHz range is my guess, maybe 1650 is achievable with a really thought out thermal l solution.
Maybe 12TF+ with pro models . Depends after how many years they launch.
The latest adoredtv video is informative. It shows Navi is power hungry, with 64 cu and above you are Looking at 300 watts... say goodbye to these numbers in consoles.
Max CU range in my opinion 36 to 48, 48 if cooling solutions are up to it. Max TF imo 10. But the added Ray Tracing Hardware will make up for the 9 - 10 TF range , imo the 10+ dream is dead, with the launch of these consoles. Also everything will be under clocked 1500 MHz range is my guess, maybe 1650 is achievable with a really thought out thermal l solution.
Maybe 12TF+ with pro models . Depends after how many years they launch.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
So 22 or 24 Gb of GDDR6 has been confirmed @ 672Gb/s and a bit less with 22?
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I don't think that has been confirmed at all.
We have a video (that I'm not sure is a render) showing the Scarlett APU and 4 real Samsung 14Gbps GDDR6 chips. Quite a few permutations are possible from that.
DESTROYA
Member
Not sure how accurate this is but ......
www.notebookcheck.net
Very surprising if true, not sure how much it difference it would make but still very surprising SONY would be a generation back with hardware.
The PlayStation 5 and Xbox Scarlett will be based on differing generations of AMD GPUs
Sony and Microsoft are both working with AMD to provide 7 nm graphics for their next-gen consoles, but the results of which may not be equal. According to multiple reports and perhaps even AMD itself, the next PlayStation and Xbox will be a generation of graphics performance apart.
www.notebookcheck.net
Very surprising if true, not sure how much it difference it would make but still very surprising SONY would be a generation back with hardware.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Not sure how accurate this is but ......
The PlayStation 5 and Xbox Scarlett will be based on differing generations of AMD GPUs
Sony and Microsoft are both working with AMD to provide 7 nm graphics for their next-gen consoles, but the results of which may not be equal. According to multiple reports and perhaps even AMD itself, the next PlayStation and Xbox will be a generation of graphics performance apart.
Very surprising if true, not sure how much it difference it would make but still very surprising SONY would be a generation back with hardware.
As noted elsewhere......Look at the source Twitter feeds at the bottom of the article.
bhunachicken
Member
MS said that Xbox Scarlett is Navi-based. So, both machines will be the same architecture.
Unknowns are clock speed, RAM, and ray tracing (secret sauce).
Unknowns are clock speed, RAM, and ray tracing (secret sauce).
Evilms
Banned
Not sure how accurate this is but ......
The PlayStation 5 and Xbox Scarlett will be based on differing generations of AMD GPUs
Sony and Microsoft are both working with AMD to provide 7 nm graphics for their next-gen consoles, but the results of which may not be equal. According to multiple reports and perhaps even AMD itself, the next PlayStation and Xbox will be a generation of graphics performance apart.
Very surprising if true, not sure how much it difference it would make but still very surprising SONY would be a generation back with hardware.
microsoftwaypoint is a fanboys french website so reliability is zero. they take their dreams for realities
Microsoft Waypoint – Toute l'actu Microsoft.
microsoftwaypoint.com
Lisa Su from AMD :
Sony:
"Working collaboratively with Sony over the last few years to build a custom chip based on the Zen 2 and next gen Radeon Architectures."
Microsoft:
"Custom Processor co-engineered between our team and the Microsoft team, with one goal in mind, to deliver the ultimate gaming experience. It uses our Zen 2 CPU Core and next generation Radeon RDNA gaming graphics architecture."
We know both use Zen2/Navi son the rest is just bullshit.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
No matter which system is most powerful, it would be funny (and sad) if these uber consoles get gimped games because..............
............. every dev jams in Ray Tracing like it's the most important thing in the world.
That awesome 4k/60 fps game is now 1080p/30 fps with ray tracing.... (with dips to 25 fps).
............. every dev jams in Ray Tracing like it's the most important thing in the world.
That awesome 4k/60 fps game is now 1080p/30 fps with ray tracing.... (with dips to 25 fps).
ANIMAL1975
Member
Some new stuff I've heard of these two beasts, coming out E3
PSU:
PS5 420 W
XBox Next 300
Cooling:
PS5 liquid cooling
XBox Next vapor chamber
Maybe some of you, more tech savvy, can help out with the meaning of this, if true. Heard it from at least three different sources but always take with a grain of salt...
Sauce:
PSU:
PS5 420 W
XBox Next 300
Cooling:
PS5 liquid cooling
XBox Next vapor chamber
Maybe some of you, more tech savvy, can help out with the meaning of this, if true. Heard it from at least three different sources but always take with a grain of salt...
Sauce:
wake up this morning and there were this three little birds singing this stuff to me, crazy i know! But made a video too proof
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
Well I've very much different view these are total failure for sure
- iPod : Zune
- Google : Bing
But these product it's a very different stories
- iPad : Surface = Ipad OS + Keyboard and Pen with an iPad Pro it's more like a Surface by Apple as well as the many (inferior product) Detachable 2in1 PC by every other PC vendor in the industry vs the Microsoft Original vision
- PlayStation : Xbox = GAMES are subjective to everyone tastes and Sales figures are useless to a gamer but as product Xbox was a much better console vs Ps2 , X360 turned out a much more viable console vs Ps3, Xbox One was a failed project , Xbox One X it's a better product vs Ps4 pro
- Steam : Microsoft Store = actually I prefer very much the Xbox Store approach and integration vs Steam ( excluding price )
- Siri : Cortana = Siri it's much more integrated companion, but both ( and Alexa) are failed design vs Google
Ar¢tos
Member
Next Xbox will have hidden dgpus and hidden cpus everywhere. Even the packaging box and manuals will be made of paper transistors!
DESTROYA
Member
Like I said “if true”.
Wouldn’t really matter anyway unless MS gets amazing exclusives like SONY has for PS4 for next gen.
My dream console would be Xbox hardware with the library of PlayStation , MS builds quality consoles that run virtually silent, the Xbox One X is a great example of MS building better hardware than SONY. Not the the PS4 Pro is bad but it does pale in comparison to the Xone.
If they both had the same exact software it would’ve been interesting to see how this gen played out but as we now that’s not the case.
Wouldn’t really matter anyway unless MS gets amazing exclusives like SONY has for PS4 for next gen.
My dream console would be Xbox hardware with the library of PlayStation , MS builds quality consoles that run virtually silent, the Xbox One X is a great example of MS building better hardware than SONY. Not the the PS4 Pro is bad but it does pale in comparison to the Xone.
If they both had the same exact software it would’ve been interesting to see how this gen played out but as we now that’s not the case.
pawel86ck
Banned
I remember xbox classic times and the thing is, back then shaders performance impact in games was comparable to RT now. On PC high end GPU's like geforce 3 and even 4 were able to run some games at 60fps up to 1600x1200 (for example quake3), but games with shaders run with 20fps even at 1280x1024 (splinter cell 1 for example). Yet on xbox thanks to lower resolution and 30fps target developers were able to achieve some stunning results.
It will be the same now. You dont need as much RT HW power to run 30fps 1440p games. 30fps is not perfect but I can game at at 30fps on gamepad (and especially on HDTV with good framerate upscaling, for example new samsung HDTV upscale fps with just 21ms lag, and that's better result than the majority of HDTV even without fps upscaling) and 1440p from normal viewing distance still looks stunning. On PC however I need 4K because otherwise picture is blurry on PC monitor, and 60fps is a must if you game on M+K.
And BTW. we still dont know how fast HW RT will be on next gen consoles. Who knows maybe MS and Sony will achieve even better results than Nv with their RT cores.
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ethomaz
Banned
MisterXMedia is back (Parasite is one of the biggest poster in MisterXMedia about dGPU and 3D silicon stack on XB1) ... look at sourceNot sure how accurate this is but ......
The PlayStation 5 and Xbox Scarlett will be based on differing generations of AMD GPUs
Sony and Microsoft are both working with AMD to provide 7 nm graphics for their next-gen consoles, but the results of which may not be equal. According to multiple reports and perhaps even AMD itself, the next PlayStation and Xbox will be a generation of graphics performance apart.
Very surprising if true, not sure how much it difference it would make but still very surprising SONY would be a generation back with hardware.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Each SIMD unit is twice as wide, so 40 CU’s are packing a LOT more punch than before (in terms of FP performance, in terms of caches and local bandwidth, additional HW work distribution and scheduling logic, etc...).
Considering RDNA is designed for mobile too, see Samsung deal, I would not judge its power consumption hastily. It is possible that it is designed for lower frequencies than what desktop users want and if you were to
raise frequency by increasing voltage on any architecture power would go through the roof.
Apparently, several of their CPU optimisation designers have been spending more and more time optimising their new GPU architectures and this July’s Navi is but the first iteration. The next generation consoles will receive Navi 1.5-2.0 next year.
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McHuj
Member
I discount the liquid cooling unless it’s in an exotic devkit.
I would also guess these are for the devkit, if true. However, normal power consumption is 50-65% of the max, so this would place the Xbox around the same power usage as the X1X.
PS5 would be much higher. The original PS3 came with a 380W power supply and consumed ~200w so this isn’t that unreasonable, especially for a devkit.
I really hope Sony is going all out like this did with PS3.
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