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[Romulus]

PSVR2 most likely have 1440p screen, because 4k res with over 60fps is ridiculious waste of resourses and not really possible at high graphics fidelity on next-gen sytstems, so expect < 12 tflops to not get disapointed.

Depending on PSVR2's release date, foveated rendering could be a thing. It's ability to decrease load is increasing every few months too. I think it might be smart to hold off until 2022 at least and try for a higher res screen, 1440p is good, but in 3 years it'll be below the curve.

Tobii Spotlight’s foveated rendering can cut VR graphics load by 57%

Tobii's gaze tracking can, with the right software, dramatically cut down a GPU's wasting of rendering power on parts of a frame you aren't looking at.

venturebeat.com

 

[sonomamashine]

5700XT isn't possible with RT.

PERFORMANCE .

Why you bring Nintendo then?

Because im a hardcore gamer i like high graphics and it doesnt stop me from getting a Nintendo to play zelda or mario....

This is a myth, we are nowhere near it yet
Sony/MS wouldn't have targetted 2020 if they couldn't provide a next gen leap, with 7nm EUV even 12TF is conservative.

Thats why i said before that 52CU is as high as i see it.

 

[mckmas8808]

Just tech demos
Im exited how much bigger, immersive and interactive worlds will be
Last gen was constrained corridors, this gen we got much more open levels

When i go back to PS3 games this is instantly noticeable

it will be a leap just not from the start of next-gen and not as huge as previous generation because visual leap is narrowing with every generation with diminishing returns.

So is this the leap we are expecting with next-gen with 2nd gen games that come out in 2021?




This in real-time and playable? This is what we are hoping for right?

 

[SonGoku]

Because im a hardcore gamer i like high graphics and it doesnt stop me from getting a Nintendo to play zelda or mario....

Same but drawing parallels to Nintendo hw design philosophies and xbox/playstation doesn't work

Thats why i said before that 52CU is as high as i see it.

If they target high clocks i agree

This in real-time and playable? This is what we are hoping for right?

We hope! check embark as well, running of a 1080ti

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

been away a few weeks, how many TFLOPS are we at now?

It's been a fun few weeks....

• PS5 18.4 TF
• Scarlett 13.4 TF

 

[Negotiator]

It ranges from 9.2TF to 18.4TF

At least the 8TF is gone

DUV is gone too with the 2 GHz target...

Remember all the EUV naysayers? Where's R600?!

 

[sonomamashine]

So is this the leap we are expecting with next-gen with 2nd gen games that come out in 2021?




This in real-time and playable? This is what we are hoping for right?

Depends on the resolution, definitly not at 4k.

Same but drawing parallels to Nintendo hw design philosophies and xbox/playstation doesn't work

I dont think people would have a choice, if next gen is below 14Tf they gonna buy it anyway, they just want to play games.

 

[Darius87]

This is a myth, we are nowhere near it yet

how it's a myth? diminished returns affects visuals psone to ps2 leap was biggest and from there it gone downhill.
we are at the point where triangle count increase on objects doesn't really make that big of difference, and it's more then polygons.

Sony/MS wouldn't have targetted 2020 if they couldn't provide a next gen leap, with 7nm EUV even 12TF is conservative.
We are not nowhere near next gen starved as we where in 2012.

i don't know why you telling me that? i've never said that they could't provide next-gen hw by 2020 i said leap won't be as big as previous generations.

That's great, it just won't target 4k and offer a next gen visual leap at the same time

9.2 -10tflop rdna could do that in consoles + ray-tracing, that's 12.88 - 14tflops of cgn, before rdna was announced people were expecting 12 - 14 tflops of cgn in next-gen consoles.

Im cautiously optimistic about this but even if that's the case a smaller performance penalty will still push an already weak GPU further

i think performance penalty will be minimal to moderate(depends on scene), also not every effect will be used, and at this state RT is pretty raw, so with optimizations it will be only get better.

 

[mckmas8808]

Depends on the resolution, definitly not at 4k.

Good with me. If we can get those visuals at 1440p with some temporal injection AA, I'll be 100% happy.

 

[SonGoku]

DUV is gone too with the 2 GHz target...

Technically N7P has the same powersavings as N7+ doesn't it?

I dont think people would have a choice, if next gen is below 14Tf they gonna buy it anyway, they just want to play games.

That wouldn't be a problem...
Im talking about nintendo hw design philosophy were they recycle performance across generations or purposely stay behind the curve

 

[bitbydeath]

So is this the leap we are expecting with next-gen with 2nd gen games that come out in 2021?




This in real-time and playable? This is what we are hoping for right?

People have been wondering for over a year now, when is Hello Games going to start charging for something?

With BC and the flexibility of the engine I would not be surprised if Hello Games are working on NMS2 for launch or close too. The major difference being the inclusion of full Ray Tracing to make it look like this or better.

 

[sonomamashine]

That wouldn't be a problem...
Im talking about nintendo hw design philosophy were they recycle performance across generations or purposely stay behind the curve

How is a jump to 5700 xt performance the same philosophy as Nintendo's.

 

[Wwg1wga]

If the next-gen use the ARM architecture, i think it will easily reach the 14.2TFs even more. Here is what is coming for 2020/21 with Fujitsu.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Hi guys, I haven't posted in awhile.

Where do we currently think PS5 and Scarlett will end up, spec wise?

The upside down! (where 14.2TF, 18.4TF and EUV currently reside )

Spoiler

I think PS5 will be N7P node, +-9TF RDNA, cut down 8-core Zen 2 @3.2GHz, 16GB GDDR6, 400/500GB BW, 1TB SSD, BD UHD. Scarlett virtually the same +10%-15% on everything max

So does PS5`s PS4 bc suggest that they are going to take their time with PS5 games? The only thing it suggests is that the people buying PSVR now are going to get use out of it for a long time. Also because of install base. However, they do not want to give the impression that VR is going to replace traditional gaming any time soon, so VR takes back stage for now. They will probably launch PSVR2 a few months after PS5 launch imo.

I don't expect PSVR2 until at least months after PS5 launch or even up to 2 years after launch to take advantage of both improved tech and cheaper pricing.

 

[SonGoku]

how it's a myth? diminished returns affects visuals psone to ps2 leap was biggest and from there it gone downhill.
we are at the point where triangle count increase on objects doesn't really make that big of difference, and it's more then polygons.

We are far from photo-realism, the same tune was sung last gen and yet the cheap consoles we got demostrated a clear visual leap, even on early gen games
Theres much more to modern graphics than polygon crunching

i don't know why you telling me that? i've never said that they could't provide next-gen hw by 2020 i said leap won't be as big as previous generations.

ps1->ps2 sure it won't, that type of leap will repeat when games switch to full scene rt
But ps3->ps4? Next gen will minimum meet that leap, it will surpass it most likely

9.2 -10tflop rdna could do that in consoles + ray-tracing, that's 12.88 - 14tflops of cgn

It pointless to compare to inexistent underutilized hardware
9TF would stay closer to 1440p than 4k

i think performance penalty will be minimal to moderate(depends on scene), also not every effect will be used, and at this state RT is pretty raw, so with optimizations it will be only get better.

Hope so but even a minimal penalty will have an adverse effect on a already weak card

 

[Darius87]

So is this the leap we are expecting with next-gen with 2nd gen games that come out in 2021?




This in real-time and playable? This is what we are hoping for right?

honestly i don't know, but i think it more depends on devs achieving such visuals in game then if hw is capable, on other hand if that's is pushing 1080Ti just to render a scene, i would presume next-gen consoles would not be capable achieve that in videogame just the render.
my personal goal for next-gen to achieve visuals in videogame would be:

 

[Romulus]

I don't expect PSVR2 until at least months after PS5 launch or even up to 2 years after launch to take advantage of both improved tech and cheaper pricing.

This makes sense, there are huge advantages to waiting.

 

[SonGoku]

How is a jump to 5700 xt performance the same philosophy as Nintendo's.

Its not, im talking about you bringing up Nintendo, is a flawed comparison.

 

[Darius87]

We are far from photo-realism, the same tune was sung last gen and yet the cheap consoles we got demostrated a clear visual leap, even on early gen games

i'm not even mentioned photo-realism in my post, why do you talking about it?
yes, there will be a increase in visuals at the start, but not true next-gen leap, i think it will be after 3+ years later.

Theres much more to modern graphics than polygon crunching

yes and diminished returns affects all of it, polygons was just example, because it's most obvious.

ps1->ps2 sure it won't, that type of leap will repeat when games switch to full scene rt

lol no, there won't be greater leap from ps1 to ps2 with playstation consoles, overall there won't be greater leap from 2d to 3d(vr got near to it that for me).

But ps3->ps4? Next gen will minimum met that leap, itt will surpass it most likely

history disagrees with you.

 

[sonomamashine]

you'r too much man, let's recap.

People won't buy next gen consoles to play prettier looking current gen games

Lol most people just wants to play games, look how Nintendo is doing, people sure not buying it for latest and greatest graphics.

looooool
Nintendo caters to a very different audience, i'd like to see Sony launch a rebranded PS4 Pro as the PS5

You are missing the point or twisting what i said, most people just want to play video games and next gen not being 14Tf wont stop them buying it.

Why you bring Nintendo then?
I agree btw, even with a 9TF console they just need to drop resolution to offer a sufficient visual leap and price it accordingly

Because im a hardcore gamer i like high graphics and it doesnt stop me from getting a Nintendo to play zelda or mario....

Same but drawing parallels to Nintendo hw design philosophies and xbox/playstation doesn't work

I dont think people would have a choice, if next gen is below 14Tf they gonna buy it anyway, they just want to play games.

That wouldn't be a problem...
Im talking about nintendo hw design philosophy were they recycle performance across generations or purposely stay behind the curve

How is a jump to 5700 xt performance the same philosophy as Nintendo's.

Its not, im talking about you bringing up Nintendo, is a flawed comparison.

when you say "People won't buy next gen consoles to play prettier looking current gen games" my response to you is if Sony & Ms went for -14Tf people wont have a choice and buy it anyway, they are not going to repremand themself because some of them got mad that it wasent 14TF or above.

honestly i don't know, but i think it more depends on devs achieving such visuals in game then if hw is capable, on other hand if that's is pushing 1080Ti just to render a scene, i would presume next-gen consoles would not be capable achieve that in videogame just the render.
my personal goal for next-gen to achieve visuals in videogame would be:

they can achieve more than this.

 

[mckmas8808]

honestly i don't know, but i think it more depends on devs achieving such visuals in game then if hw is capable, on other hand if that's is pushing 1080Ti just to render a scene, i would presume next-gen consoles would not be capable achieve that in videogame just the render.
my personal goal for next-gen to achieve visuals in videogame would be:

I think that Aegnis video can be done on a PS4 PRO and Xbox One X right now lol.

 

[Gamernyc78]

looooool
Nintendo caters to a very different audience, i'd like to see Sony launch a rebranded PS4 Pro as the PS5

In Cerny words, previously unattainable visuals, instantly noticeable
Some examples:
Uncharted2&3->Uncharted4
Killzone3-> Shadowfall
Infamous2-> SecondSon
asscreed3-> whatever asscreed is out now
rdr->rdr2

Second Son still looks better than alot of games this day and was such a big jump from the prior Infamous.

 

[CJY]

Depending on PSVR2's release date, foveated rendering could be a thing. It's ability to decrease load is increasing every few months too. I think it might be smart to hold off until 2022 at least and try for a higher res screen, 1440p is good, but in 3 years it'll be below the curve.

Tobii Spotlight’s foveated rendering can cut VR graphics load by 57%

Tobii's gaze tracking can, with the right software, dramatically cut down a GPU's wasting of rendering power on parts of a frame you aren't looking at.

venturebeat.com

Sony should totally try to purchase this company and integrate it into the next version of PSVR. They may be discussing this already with Tobii, and if such a deal is in the offing, then it would be announced concurrently with the announcement of PSVR2.

The technology application goes far beyond just gaze tracking for VR though, so I dunno if it's a good fit for Sony as a investment and it's likely Sony would be able to develop the same thing in-house. In fact, I think I recall some patent applications form Sony in relation to gaze tracking.

 

[TLZ]

14 tflops of the old PS4 gcn architecture tflops. 9.2 tflops of the rdna type, equivalent to nvidia flops.

Report: PS5 GPU Outperforms a GeForce RTX 2070 Super

Engineering samples of the PS5's Navi-based GPU apparently run at 2GHz and achieve 9.2 teraflops of performance, which outperforms both the GeForce GTX 2070 and 2070 Super.

www.pcmag.com

Oh my God.... PC mag, PC in its name, who are supposed to know how TFs are counted, are quoting 'is a parrot' from Twitter, who is thuway, who has NO IDEA how TFs are counted, as a source for the 9.2tf number?

 

[SonGoku]

i'm not even mentioned photo-realism in my post, why do you talking about it?

Because thats when diminishing returns will hit not before.

yes, there will be a increase in visuals at the start, but not true next-gen leap, i think it will be after 3+ years later.

As is the case every gen, nevertheless early next gen games will show a clear leap

yes and diminished returns affects all of it, polygons was just example, because it's most obvious.

No, so many effects make up a scene. New hw not only enables current effects to be used more heavily but it also new effects and techniques
Even the polygon comparison is flawed, its pointless to add more polygons without adding more details to the scene

lol no, there won't be greater leap from ps1 to ps2 with playstation consoles, overall there won't be greater leap from 2d to 3d(vr got near to it that for me).

You don't think the switch from rasterization to full raytraced will at least match it? Ok..

history disagrees with you.

Not really

when you say "People won't buy next gen consoles to play prettier looking current gen games" my response to you is if Sony & Ms went for -14Tf people wont have a choice and buy it anyway, they are not going to repremand themself because some of them got mad that it wasent 14TF or above.

I agree with that.. I only disagreed with your flawed comparison with Nintendo:

People won't buy next gen consoles to play prettier looking current gen games

Lol most people just wants to play games, look how Nintendo is doing, people sure not buying it for latest and greatest graphics.

Even a weak 9tf console will provide a next gen leap at 1440p

 

[Bryank75]

Oh my God.... PC mag, PC in its name, who are supposed to know how TFs are counted, are quoting 'is a parrot' from Twitter, who is thuway, who has NO IDEA how TFs are counted, as a source for the 9.2tf number?

He is a doctor though..

 

[Shangounchained]

how it's a myth? diminished returns affects visuals psone to ps2 leap was biggest and from there it gone downhill.
we are at the point where triangle count increase on objects doesn't really make that big of difference, and it's more then polygons.

i don't know why you telling me that? i've never said that they could't provide next-gen hw by 2020 i said leap won't be as big as previous generations.

9.2 -10tflop rdna could do that in consoles + ray-tracing, that's 12.88 - 14tflops of cgn, before rdna was announced people were expecting 12 - 14 tflops of cgn in next-gen consoles.


i think performance penalty will be minimal to moderate(depends on scene), also not every effect will be used, and at this state RT is pretty raw, so with optimizations it will be only get better.
[/QUOTE
Trust me I can still tell the difference between cgi and realtime, games still need alot more polygons especially in every genre except racing games to which I think rendering cars is always easier and we need more polygons because of higher resolutions with higher resolutions polygon edges start showing up and lastly the usual big difference between playstation exclusives with other companies is that playstation prioritize quality you can straight up tell how much poly count they splashed when looking at any of their titles since PS3 stuff just looks round

 

[Shangounchained]

Xbox original = 20 gflops, Xbox 360 240 gflops PS3 230.4 = 12x increase, x 360 to Xbox oneS 1.4 tflops = 6x. PS3 to PS4 1.8 tflops = 7.5x. so going by this next gen consoles will be at average 8x more powerfull which is shit from 10 - 14 teraflops I hope we don't get this but then again it's what were gonna get

 

[SonGoku]

Trust me I can still tell the difference between cgi and realtime, games still need alot more polygons especially in every genre except racing games to which I think rendering cars is always easier and we need more polygons because of higher resolutions with higher resolutions polygon edges start showing up and lastly the usual big difference between playstation exclusives with other companies is that playstation prioritize quality you can straight up tell how much poly count they splashed when looking at any of their titles since PS3 stuff just looks round

Its a misleading comparison: In order to take advantage of the increased poly count more detail has to be added to the model

 

[Shangounchained]

Its a misleading comparison: In order to take advantage of the increased poly count more detail has to be added to the model

That's sometimes true but sometimes the detail is there the textures are alright but the freakin poly count is useless it's developers who take it easy and think nobody will notice that! That make games that look half assed compared to playstation exclusives it's the simple stuff that give visuals away look at the attention to detail on games like the order and uncharted and now compare that to any other game being realistic playstation will throw every last polygon they have while others will say oooh well just go with this they won't tell! It's this kind of lazy thinking that distinguishes Sony's quality to the rest

 

[Shmunter]

So when will the next gen officially be revealed, are there any sound predictions?

 

[ResilientBanana]

9TF is enough to show a next gen leap. Does anyone remember that the PS4 is only 1.8TF? What the hell is wrong with everyone in here?

 

[bitbydeath]

9TF is enough to show a next gen leap. Does anyone remember that the PS4 is only 1.8TF? What the hell is wrong with everyone in here?

Nope. It is not. 4K will be the minimum res next-gen and 9TF is not enough to accomplish that.

And that's before you add Ray-Tracing into the mix as well.

Plus as others have already admitted the 5700XT can't do RT so the 5900 which has RT is what will be used and is more powerful than 9TF.

The writing is on the wall.

 

[SonGoku]

That's sometimes true but sometimes the detail is there the textures are alright but the freakin poly count is useless it's developers who take it easy and think nobody will notice that! That make games that look half assed compared to playstation exclusives it's the simple stuff that give visuals away look at the attention to detail on games like the order and uncharted and now compare that to any other game being realistic playstation will throw every last polygon they have while others will say oooh well just go with this they won't tell! It's this kind of lazy thinking that distinguishes Sony's quality to the rest

True but i was referencing the flawed comparison pic. I agree visuals are a sum of all parts, if one lags behind it will have a detrimental effect on presentation
BTW I got the impression the new god of war enviroments and npcs are poly starved

9TF is enough to show a next gen leap

at 1440p sure

So when will the next gen officially be revealed, are there any sound predictions?

Early 2020 most likely following with a E3 full blowout

 

[Shangounchained]

9TF is enough to show a next gen leap. Does anyone remember that the PS4 is only 1.8TF? What the hell is wrong with everyone in here?

Xbox one X is 6 teraflops so 9 isn't enough for next gen

 

[SonGoku]

Xbox one X is 6 teraflops so 9 isn't enough for next gen

But 9TF RDNA its like 18TF GCN, so its fine!

 

[Shangounchained]

So when will the next gen officially be revealed, are there any sound predictions?

I'm sure it'll be E3 2020 with release by November 2020 to Jan 2021

 

[Shangounchained]

But 9TF RDNA its like 18TF GCN, so its fine!

I'm not sure about that gcn and rDNA stuff I think it's simply illusions more like dx12 Vs 11 consoles have always been super engineered down to he bone don't think rDNA and gcn stuff really matters

 

[Shangounchained]

I'm not sure about that gcn and rDNA stuff I think it's simply illusions more like dx12 Vs 11 consoles have always been super engineered down to he bone don't think rDNA and gcn stuff really matters

If next gen is what I saw in ahlo infinite and flight simulator then it's not a big leap at all

 

[SonGoku]

If next gen is what I saw in ahlo infinite and flight simulator then it's not a big leap at all

You can edit your posts btw to avoid double posting

 

[ResilientBanana]

Xbox one X is 6 teraflops so 9 isn't enough for next gen

But the Xbox One X was gimped by processing power, GCN, Xbox One S, and simply the Xbox One. The games had to be compatible across all 3 and plenty of games had a lot of overhead when ran at 4K on the GPU side. But the CPU had to have been maxed out for the most part. It's like driving a Ferrari in second gear the whole time.

It's funny how so many people mention the Xbox One and Xbox One S held back the Xbox One X's visuals. But when it comes down to Next-Gen suddenly 9TF RDNA is inferior to 6TF GCN. Which in reality it's a far more powerful architecture.

9TF RDNA = 13.5TF GCN

 

[Shangounchained]

But the Xbox One X was gimped by processing power, GCN, Xbox One S, and simply the Xbox One. The games had to be compatible across all 3 and plenty of games had a lot of overhead when ran at 4K on the GPU side. But the CPU had to have been maxed out for the most part. It's like driving a Ferrari in second gear the whole time.

It's funny how so many people mention the Xbox One and Xbox One S held back the Xbox One X's visuals. But when it comes down to Next-Gen suddenly 9TF RDNA is inferior to 6TF GCN. Which in reality it's a far more powerful architecture.

9TF RDNA = 13.5TF GCN

I know that Xbox one X was capable of far better visuals especially at 1080p but what's the point of making a next gen console that's not far away from the one X in terms of power why not simply go wiyh the xbone X and start developing specific games for it

 

[ResilientBanana]

I know that Xbox one X was capable of far better visuals especially at 1080p but what's the point of making a next gen console that's not far away from the one X in terms of power why not simply go wiyh the xbone X and start developing specific games for it

And just drop your 50 million other fans? The Xbox One X sold well but not that well. It wasn't a new generation, It was a means to an end to compete with the PS4 Pro and provide 4K visuals for current gen games. The CPU held it back as much as the XO and XOS. You weren't going to surpass 60FPS very easily. The next gen systems will do that.

 

[Shangounchained]

Look at halo infinites graphics Vs ghost of tsushima, just buy looking at this already there is no point of releasing a next gen console that looks current gen I mean what's the point?

 

[ResilientBanana]

Look at halo infinites graphics Vs ghost of tsushima, just buy looking at this already there is no point of releasing a next gen console that looks current gen I mean what's the point?

Meanwhile the Slipspace Engine trailer was far more impressive.

 

[Shangounchained]

And just drop your 50 million other fans? The Xbox One X sold well but not that well. It wasn't a new generation, It was a means to an end to compete with the PS4 Pro and provide 4K visuals for current gen games. The CPU held it back as much as the XO and XOS. You weren't going to surpass 60FPS very easily. The next gen systems will do that.

I don't care about 60fps or resolutions I need to see a leap in graphics fidelity what Ur saying is that next gen consoles will simply be 4k 60fps ports of current games cause it's simply where we're heading it's a silly circle were stuck at

 

[Shangounchained]

Meanwhile the Slipspace Engine trailer was far more impressive.
[/I haven't seen anything remotely impressive on this engine compared to ghost of tsushima this engine looks dated

 

[ResilientBanana]

I don't care about 60fps or resolutions I need to see a leap in graphics fidelity what Ur saying is that next gen consoles will simply be 4k 60fps ports of current games cause it's simply where we're heading it's a silly circle were stuck at

Why are you in this thread?

 

[Shangounchained]

Why are you in this thread?

Is that really a sane question?

 

[Aceofspades]

The same guy basically confirmed that both PS5 and Scarlett will be within the same power ballpark with PS5 having slight edge.