Stillmatic
Member
Dynamic weather is weather that can change at anytime during a race to any condition the game offers. Plenty of games do this.
GT5/GT6, DriveClub, pCARs 2 all calculate the weather in real-time... that is called Dynamic Weather System.
From DriveClub...
That what makes these system dynamic... GT5 simulates everything that is why anything (weather condition) can happen in any race making it unique.
This is what the Dymanic Weather System is summarized in GT5...Dynamic weather is weather that can change at anytime during a race to any condition the game offers. Plenty of games do this.
This is what the Dymanic Weather System is summarized in GT5...
Dynamic Wather System simulate the changes in temperature, humidity and pressure, which will realistically influence the environment and driving
It is not... the weather conditions changes are already set when you start the race... there is no real time using temperature, humidity and pressure simulation to define changes or not.Yea and F7 does that bud
Heck Forza has been simulating temperature and such before F7 without the dynamic weather happening
It is not... the weather conditions are already set when you start the race... there is no simulation to define if it has changed or not.
Yes, and the point is if you have 700+ cars people will never play all those cars to any fair degree, if ever touch the majority of them...You had so many reviewers saying they had to wade through so many shit cars to get to the ones they wanted to drive in F7....I mean, it's good to have a great number of cars, GT not just GT5 has been doing that for years and always had the upperhand to other racers in terms of car count, but that really means nothing if people are not going to use them.
I mean, if you're saying that 180 of the best looking cars is not enough for you in a racer, where the focus is not collection but proper racing, learning to race properly and maximizing your turns etc.., not crashing, good lines etc..with physics not leaning closer to arcade, then I think maybe GTS is not for you. One thing is for sure, this GT has not been marketed as a traditional GT or else we would have had all the premiums from GT5 and 6 in there with a traditional sunday cup et al....
I'd like to see how F7 cars measure up to GT5/6 premiums, It's clear that F7's cars are not in GTS's league..Perhaps Wax Free Vanilla can help me out here...
Maybe it's because they're two different cars.......Heh!
As I said before, GTS models in scapes and showrooms are many leagues above F7 and in game the models are still superior. You may take higher rez images from PC to boost IQ and sharpness, but that does not mean the models are better. I won't be the one to post them, but various detail levels on cars have been shown as a thing when racing in Forza 7, perhaps due to the dynamic graphic setting on PC, but it exists and so would it on XB consoles as well.
The screens shown here all show one thing, PC screens at high rez and best settings, but in there you see the pale environments, the pale cars, the lack of great lighting etc..It's the reason when you see GT cars in motion they look real and they look as something you see everyday in the environment as opposed to F7.
I'm pretty sure you have seen some of the latest gifs or vids which by now have made it on the web...Just about to load up the beta myself and getting geared for the 17th. So you know what GT cars really look like in game compared to F7 and PC2 at least. Especially when placed on a track and racing....
GT5/GT6, DriveClub, pCARs 2 all calculate the weather in real-time... that is called Dynamic Weather System.
From DriveClub...
That what makes these system dynamic... GT5 simulates everything that is why anything (weather condition) can happen in any race making it unique.
Dynamic weather is weather that can change at anytime during a race to any condition the game offers. Plenty of games do this.
Yea and F7 does that bud
Heck Forza has been simulating temperature and such before F7 without the dynamic weather happening
When you choose these options the game set when it will start the weather change and it is already decided if it will rain or not when the race start... the simulation is done before the race start... that is why it didnt change while the race didnt progress... it doesnt simulate if it will rain or not in real time.Lmao is this guy serious?
Again nothing is set. The rain and weather have probabilities to happen. During the race the game runs the weather on the chances of happening for the race. You can clearly set percentage values for rain to happen and EVERY time you race it rains differently
And yes it does all that was said in that "definition" is calculated in Forza. Go do some more reading you need it
I can't wait to get this on the one x.Forza 7 is 'dynamic' enough. It obviously cycles its multiple configurable conditions to race duration, and so, no, you won't see a 24 hour cycle if you keep your car still, but is that really important? It serves its purpose for the 3 or 7 lap races generally run, and looks great (its photo-captured skies in particular looking amazing)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vdjLX1-CO9k
Guys, it's very simple, really.
Weather is dynamic as in it can go from dry to rain to thunderstorm and dry again during a race. Then the road will progressively dry and apparently it will do so quicker along the ideal race line as cars race on it, and stay wet everywhere else.
Dynamic as in puddles will form and dry as passing cars splash the water away.
That much is simulated it would seem, or approximated anyway. It's dynamic.
This is a graphics comparison thread, so I would assume this is only brought up because of the tech involved ("yeah it looks worse but the weather is dynamic!"). What triggers the rain is irrelevant in this discussion. The tech is there, and that is all.
Now Tod is a different thing.
Tod in FM7 only changes from dusk to night or night to dawn from what I've seen.
Shadows on the track aren't dynamic. It doesn't have real time dynamic unified lighting allowing the shadows to move according to where the sun is. The sun won't move across the sky ever, at most it will set or rise, so going from shadows on to shadows off or vice versa.
You can sit on the track forever, but that sunrise will never turn into noon.
Not because the event isn't triggered or scheduled, but because the tech doesn't allow it. It doesn't allow shadows to move because they're baked.
TLr
For the intents of this thread, weather is dynamic. Tod only very marginally so.
I don't think it's not going to be hard to see the difference at all. No different than how the difference was clear between the PS4 and XBO.
This is well put.
Both weather and ToD are dynamic, but whereas the weather has few notable shortcuts and limitations, the time of say has a lot of notable restrictions. This doesn't mean it's not dynamic, it just means more shortcuts are taken, and its range is limited.
To put it simply:
Static Race starts a 8pm in-game. You race for 6 hours. Race ends at 8pm in-game.
Dyanmic (Forza 7): Race starts at 8pm in-game . You race for 6 hours. Race ends at midnight in-game.
Dynamic (Project Cars 2): Race starts at 8pm in-game. You race for 6 hours. Race ends at 11am in-game.
Forza 7's ToD then has a limited dynamic range (owing to limitation with the lighting system), as opposed to Project Cars having a full dynamic range. Both are still dynamic however.
I think its disingenuous to call both dynamic when one cant even cast shadows.
It is not... the weather conditions changes are already set when you start the race... there is no real time using temperature, humidity and pressure simulation to define changes or not.
It would be disingenuous to call the shadows dynamic, which is why the range is limited to times/conditions where they wouldn't be a factor.
I dont think Im understanding you right. Having a dynamic light source is what makes a dynamic ToD is it not?
does project cars 2 or forza 7 or hell even need for speed payback support steam family sharing???
It is not... the weather conditions changes are already set when you start the race... there is no real time using temperature, humidity and pressure simulation to define changes or not.
Can FM7 go from cloudy overcast rain to a sunny day?
That could be a baked transition. If it happens the same everytime it's not dynamic. Dynamic weather has usually referred to unpredictable variables.Ahhh so what you're saying is the weather changes, or progresses, which is the definition of dynamic. Thanks for agreeing.
To have a full range you would need to yes, because the shadows would move as time passes. Forza's night races begin with the sun already disappearing behind cloud cover, so they can simply darken the skies to pass the time, leaving only the light sources on the track itself (roadside lamps etc). This is why it can't do a full 24hr cycle, because you couldn't reasonably approximate it with this solution. But it's also very clearly not static.
The term dynamic isn't binary. Things can be more or less dynamic, whilst still being dynamic. If something goes from 20 to 24, then it's dynamic, even if it can't go from 6 to 24. If it were stuck at 20 though, then it'd be static.
This is great. The top tier contenders are definitely PC2 and GTS at this point.
So what game do you see coming out in the next year that will make it easy to see that Xbox One X is a lot more powerful than PS4 Pro up against GTS , Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider Man , God of War 4 , Last Us 2 , Detroit , Death Stranding & so on?
Forza 7 can't make a case for it if someone can look over & see GTS on the PS4 Pro looking a lot better.
Maybe they will patch Forza 7 to use even higher settings down the line but for now a higher resolution isn't making Forza 7 look as good as GTS.
That could be a baked transition. If it happens the same everytime it's not dynamic. Dynamic weather has usually referred to unpredictable variables.
Think of this as a temporary ceasefire in the thread, and we have just entered the cold war stage.Please let me know when we can go back to showcasing some lovely graphics
Dubai in FM7 looks very nice.
No... just no...
Static = doesnt change
Dynamic = does change
It doesn't make a difference how or why it changes, simply changing is what makes it dynamic.
Again that totally feels disingenuous to call both dynamic then.
Being dynamic is pretty binary in game engines and its usually a checkbox, do you want a dynamic light? check yes or no.
If being dynamic is too expensive for the engine you usually try to fake it.
Something can be animated and not be dynamic. For eg. Clouds moving in a game doesn't make them dynamic, it's the system in place that makes them move/or change that defines that.
I think the fact that you can set the probability of weather in a Forza 7, in other words leaving it up to RNG variables, is enough proof of it being dynamic.
I dunno how the argument has even lasted this long to be honest.
It only feels disingenuous to you, because you conflate the "what" with the "how"...
Well it feels disingenuous to me because PC2 can be like "We have dynamic ToD, check out our ToD cycle!"
And you're like "Forza has dynamic ToD too!"
Only Forza doesnt have a ToD cycle.. because they dont have a dynamic Sun..
But you can call it whatever you want, I wouldnt call it that though
It's easy to find out if it has dynamic weather. In Driveclub every time you reset the race the weather changed. It became a problem with time trials because some people were setting lap times during a dry spell while others couldn't.
If you set the chance of rain to 50% in DC, each time you race/reset the weather would change; you could race the whole race without rain or it would start at 2 mins, or 14 mins, whenever. If you set the chance of rain to 50% in Forza and it rains at 2 min 30 each time you race, after reseting, it is not dynamic. It's obviously better for comparing times because everyone races in the same conditions, but it's not dynamic.
It is not... the weather conditions changes are already set when you start the race... there is no real time using temperature, humidity and pressure simulation to define changes or not.
Can FM7 go from cloudy overcast rain to a sunny day?
So what game do you see coming out in the next year that will make it easy to see that Xbox One X is a lot more powerful than PS4 Pro up against GTS , Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider Man , God of War 4 , Last Us 2 , Detroit , Death Stranding & so on?
Forza 7 can't make a case for it if someone can look over & see GTS on the PS4 Pro looking a lot better.
Maybe they will patch Forza 7 to use even higher settings down the line but for now a higher resolution isn't making Forza 7 look as good as GTS.
It's more disingenuous to say it doesn't have a dynamic ToD, because that would imply that it remains static (which is what ethomaz was previously implying). .
Is it though? Doesnt the sun remain static? Can you go 3pm to 5pm? How can you say you have a dynamic ToD if you cant even make the sun move. Thats way more disingenuous. ;p
Well it feels disingenuous to me because PC2 can be like "We have dynamic ToD, check out our ToD cycle!"
And you're like "Forza has dynamic ToD too!"
Only Forza doesnt have a ToD cycle.. because they dont have a dynamic Sun..
But you can call it whatever you want, I wouldnt call it that though
Sigh... I hope the devs stay far away from this thread. The current talk here might make these games have even more 2D trees or whatever in the next iterations, you people are clearly never satisfied with how they handle the time of day and weather changes. I don't get why it's so important. Are you meteorologists or racing fans?? I'm having a ton of fun with both FM7 and PC2, and they both look awesome, runs great even on three screens too, it's seriously the best year ever when it comes to racing. And from the look of things now that new impressions are starting to appear I'm sure the GTS demo will make me drool. Hopefully I can keep myself from buying it to get the vote with the wallet thing for more SP content going. But we'll how that goes... I'm a weak old man... Anyhow I'm just surprised how much you're focusing on things that aren't imo making or breaking a racer in any way, for graphics or gameplay. Would a racer be completely worthless nowadays with no ToD/weather changes? That's what it sounds like here right now imo. And I mean who cares what isn't changing if you're _standing still_ on the track?? Why would you do that?? As long as things change when you're actually driving then anyone with an interest of these dynamic things should be happy with these racers from my point of view.
Is it though? Doesnt the sun remain static? Can you go 3pm to 5pm? How can you say you have a dynamic ToD if you cant even make the sun move. Thats way more disingenuous. ;p
The sun doesn't remain static, but also doesn't actually appear to be actually lighting anything. It's just a thing in the sky basically. It starts out barely visible before being obscured as the sky darkens.
It doesn't matter if you can't go 3pm to 5pm specifically (or a full 24hr cycle). That's a discussion surrounding the limitations of the implementation. Going from any time to any other time is dynamic. If it was permanently set at the same time, then it would be static. This is really simple, and I don't understand how we're even still discussing it tbh.
Oh I didnt know you can see the sun move
This is my thoughts as well, compromises are there for a reason.Considering how PC2 struggles to reach 60fps on base consoles, I'm not sure that's what other games should be striving for. Sure you can argue that it's more impressive on a technical level but it comes at a huge cost of resolution and frame rate. When just looking at PC2 and Forza, I'm not sure which looks better on consoles, but I certainly know which runs better. Would a dynamic sun be worth resolution and frame rate to you? Is it really such a bad thing if other games find a good compromise that produced a similar result?
Developers wouldn't even listen to half the comments in this thread anyways =p
I know weather is up in the air with GTS but does it have dynamic tod?
You cant see because it doesnt move at all... it is static.Oh I didnt know you can see the sun move
Last gen had perfect dynamic weather and ToD so why we cant have it this gen? Why have baked weather and ToD?This is my thoughts as well, compromises are there for a reason.
I just think that when things are getting downgrades just to have ToD/weather changes and people still aren't satisfied if it isn't 100% perfect, then it's time to start reflecting where your interest actually lies.
I know this thread is about graphics but are we even talking about the graphics at this point? And is racing still why you're playing/buying/talking about these games or could it be any other genre as well? I've even seen excuses for lower framerates in this thread, something that is okay for other genres but is in big way hurting racing gameplay.
There are a surprisingly small amount of actual gameplay videos in this thread too (and also in the OTs which is even more surprising), the focus is clearly on replays and photo mode, to the point that it's actually difficult for someone out of the loop to get how the games look in gameplay.
I don't think you can (you may have read my post pre-edit, which made it sound like you could). The clouds cover the sun to obscured that it doesn't move, but then the sky darkens to give the impression of it having set whilst you couldn't see it.