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[Sebmugi]

I uploaded the Tokyo night super hyper car demo. Vertical tacho ftw.

https://youtu.be/RQbpM4FPAu0

oO

 

[Synth]

Races are pre-defined pre-race. At the start the game chooses a path for time and weather and as the player drives around the circuit it changes according to that schedule i.e. the weather system doesn't just decide to kick in randomly. There's a specific set of pre-defined schedules for the game to choose from. If it was dynamic there would be a more equal share of race conditions. It's done like that for a reason. Because the sun doesn't actually move across the sky they use cloud cover to make the sun appear to be somewhere else.

I've mentioned this before, but the weather "deciding to kick in randomly" is not really a factor in it being dynamic or not (time of day doesn't randomly decide to kick in either, and is typically predetermined from the start with a set time and speed for it to pass). This was already posted, but it's probably worth repeating here, as we're now getting into assumptions about what the system is capable of versus what is visible to the player.

During our Turn 10 visit, we could see how the developers could tweak lighting and weather on the fly during runtime, as easily as a movie colourist grades footage.

If the system was a rigid and inflexible as you suggest, it would basically break the rewind (or replay) functionality for example.

I uploaded the Tokyo night super hyper car demo. Vertical tacho ftw.

https://youtu.be/RQbpM4FPAu0

Alright, this here looks ridiculous.

Forza 7 can't compete with GTS unless its IQ in which case high end PC should be better.

Not sure why the bolded is necessary. High-end PC would always be in the discussion regardless. It's not a console-specific thread.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Forza 7 can't compete with GTS unless its IQ in which case high end PC should be better. True about DC but its other areas aren't as strong and the rain being best in DC has been known for a long time.

Thread had a good run.

Or if you want to driveHonda Prelude in a rainstorm.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Lovely

Nice N64 reflections

 

[KageMaru]

What you're saying sounds pretty dynamic to me. In the video the sun moves casting dynamic shadows, you know expected dynamic ToD stuff. Even the moon looked pretty dynamic.

Where is that stuff in Forza? Which is why I called it a bad example

So it's dynamic because you can see the sun even though Forza uses a similar system? It's really hard to take some of you serious when you move the goalpost to very specific definitions. The opposite of dynamic is static and this does not look static to me:

Also HZD is a good example because it shows that it's the end results, not the implementation, that matters. For anyone to say a method is acceptable in one game but the same method is not in another, that's some impressive levels of hypocrisy.

Since this discussion started I realise I’ve experienced/seen a few different systems the last couple of generations:

Full Dynamics/Fully Dynamic - synergistic systems directly affecting environmental conditions
Technicals: independent real-time light emitting source (sun) illuminating space and interacting with objects (shadows) tied to a simulated weather system
Games: Gran Turismo 5, Gran Turismo 6, Project CARS, Project CARS 2, Driveclub, Forza Horizon 3

Others I can't really put a name to due to nuanced differences:

Technicals: Player-dependant real-time light emitting source (sun) illuminating space and interacting with objects (shadows) tied to a pre-defined weather system
Games: The Crew

Technicals: Player-dependent real-time light emitting source (sun) illuminating space and interacting with objects (shadows) tied to a simulated weather system
Games: Horizon Zero Dawn

Technicals: Player-dependent real-time non-light emitting source not interacting with objects tied to a pre-defined weather system
Games: Forza Motorsport 7

Technicals: Static real-time light emitting source (sun) illuminating space and interacting with objects (shadows) tied to a pre-defined weather system
Games: Gran Turismo Sport


Races are pre-defined pre-race. At the start the game chooses a path for time and weather and as the player drives around the circuit it changes according to that schedule i.e. the weather system doesn’t just decide to kick in randomly. There’s a specific set of pre-defined schedules for the game to choose from. If it was dynamic there would be a more equal share of race conditions. It’s done like that for a reason. Because the sun doesn’t actually move across the sky they use cloud cover to make the sun appear to be somewhere else.

Not sure about the puddles but it could also be part of the pre-defined rules of that particular schedule.


Scenes transition from one pre-defined state to another. Pre-defined/baked is not dynamic/fluid. Furthermore the changes are dependent on player activity. A dynamic system is not reliant an another system.

I think you're wrong about Horizon Zero Dawn. If you walk forward and backward you can literally see the shadows move back and fourth i.e. player dependent. That would unlikely work if it is pre-baked, right?

You should have known what I meant by pre-defined when I referenced the demo which has the storm roll through exactly the same way every race. Whether the randomization is done before or during the race, it's not done in the same pre-defined way every race.

Also IIRC, Forza 7 uses the same system as Forza Horizon 3, they even used the same 12K camera to grap assets for the sky. So if you think one is acceptable, then the other should be as well.

Regarding HZD, the Fable games last gen used a similar system and that had moving shadows too. Doesn't make it any more "dynamic" than Forza 7.

I honestly don't understand the mental gymnastics some of you are performing. It's like admitting anything good about the weather and ToD system in Forza 7 would bring you literal pain.

 

[Putty]

Nice N64 reflections

I don't see any N64 reflections whatsoever....

 

[Hoo-doo]

Nice N64 reflections

Let me guess, you probably weren't even alive when the N64 was a thing.

You're just looking to get a rise out of people and it's getting quite annoying. Aren't there other forums more receptive to this stuff?

Why are you so easily triggered? You love the game that much that can't see critics?

You're barely capable of 'critics'. There's people in this thread that can at least properly formulate an opinion besides limp-wristed jabs and digs at a game.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Let me guess, you probably weren't even alive when the N64 was a thing.

You're just looking to get a rise out of people and it's getting quite annoying. Aren't there other forums more receptive to this stuff?

Why are you so easily triggered? You love the game that much that can't see critics?

 

[rodrigolfp]

Let me guess, you probably weren't even alive when the N64 was a thing.

You're just looking to get a rise out of people and it's getting quite annoying. Aren't there other forums more receptive to this stuff?



You're barely capable of 'critics'. There's people in this thread that can at least properly formulate an opinion besides limp-wristed jabs and digs at a game.

And why didn't you get triggered about the "lovely" critic in the post i whoted? Because you only love me?

 

[thelastword]

Forza 7 vs Other racers 20 years prior.....It's a bit comedic though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPlpJaY6zpg

Nice N64 reflections

The problem is not quite the reflection quality but rather what's being reflected...I've stopped the loop, I'll try to see if it only happens on that car...

 

[Ehker]

Or if you want to driveHonda Prelude in a rainstorm.

Or what if you want to drive Tokyo Expressway and do it in VR? Each game offers different things the other doesn't, but still trying to compare graphics.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Forza 7 vs Other racers 20 years prior.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPlpJaY6zpg



The problem is not quite the reflection quality but rather what's being reflected...I've stopped the loop, I'll try to see if it only happens on that car...

That is beyond lazy pit stop xD

So there are "pixelated" trees being reflected? Either way something is not right.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Forza 7 vs Other racers 20 years prior.....It's a bit comedic though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPlpJaY6zpg

The real comedic thing is how both "gee we managed this 20 years ago, why can't Forza?" examples are games with literally one type of car. It's a tad harder to make pitstop animations work and sync up for 700 cars of varying length and width. Even pCARS 2 showed an example of this in that video, the car pulled out of the pitlane and drove straight through a member of the pit crew.

 

[Hoo-doo]

For completionists' sake, here's an example of pit stops in GTS.

I wonder if you can keep the view inside the car when pitting in GTS? That would make for increased immersion.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

For completionists' sake, here's an example of pit stops in GTS.

Stop. STOP! He's already dead....

 

[LukasTaves]

Because it looks pre-defined/baked.

When you start the race everything is already set to when it will rain (or change the weather)... there is no dynamic, real time simulation, etc.

Just so you know. Pre baked and dynamic are not exactly mutually exclusive.

 

[Xcell Miguel]

The real comedic thing is how both "gee we managed this 20 years ago, why can't Forza?" examples are games with literally one type of car. It's a tad harder to make pitstop animations work and sync up for 700 cars of varying length and width. Even pCARS 2 showed an example of this in that video, the car pulled out of the pitlane and drove straight through a member of the pit crew.

And in PCARS 2 it seems that they don't remove the wheels, there's 2 front wheels on each side, one guy moves a wheel like if it was removed but they don't even touch the car.
It's more immersive but they don't even change the wheels for real.

I think F1 2017 has the best pit stops for now.

 

[KageMaru]

Nice N64 reflections

You know the reflections don't look like that on average, right?

Can we not cherry pick carefully selected scenes to push some agenda?

Forza 7 vs Other racers 20 years prior.....It's a bit comedic though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPlpJaY6zpg

What does this have to do with this thread? Who would have thought a game with the most content but shortest development time would need to cut corners? It's sad how blatant of a troll you are.

 

[Gestault]

The real comedic thing is how both "gee we managed this 20 years ago, why can't Forza?" examples are games with literally one type of car. It's a tad harder to make pitstop animations work and sync up for 700 cars of varying length and width. Even pCARS 2 showed an example of this in that video, the car pulled out of the pitlane and drove straight through a member of the pit crew.

I was going to say, pit stops in PC2 get strange fast, because the fuel line generally floats above the car, or links in a completely wrong place. You often drive through the circle "hold" sign. Without exageration, I'd say it's 50/50 whether it looks/feels good or just doesn't work because of the oddity of it.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

For completionists' sake, here's an example of pit stops in GTS.

I wonder if you can keep the view inside the car when pitting in GTS? That would make for increased immersion.

fuck that's incredible.

 

[Crayon]

For completionists' sake, here's an example of pit stops in GTS.

I wonder if you can keep the view inside the car when pitting in GTS? That would make for increased immersion.

Omg this game. I'm getting way too excited.

 

[rodrigolfp]

The real comedic thing is how both "gee we managed this 20 years ago, why can't Forza?" examples are games with literally one type of car. It's a tad harder to make pitstop animations work and sync up for 700 cars of varying length and width. Even pCARS 2 showed an example of this in that video, the car pulled out of the pitlane and drove straight through a member of the pit crew.

Still insanely better than literally nothing.

 

[KageMaru]

For completionists' sake, here's an example of pit stops in GTS.

I wonder if you can keep the view inside the car when pitting in GTS? That would make for increased immersion.

Now that's a pit stop done right.

 

[Hawk269]

The real comedic thing is how both "gee we managed this 20 years ago, why can't Forza?" examples are games with literally one type of car. It's a tad harder to make pitstop animations work and sync up for 700 cars of varying length and width. Even pCARS 2 showed an example of this in that video, the car pulled out of the pitlane and drove straight through a member of the pit crew.

I really don't care about pit stop animations, what I do care about and something I wish Forza would allow is the ability to control pit stops...if I just want fuel, I should be able to just get fuel to cut down on the pit stop time. I also think that a car that has 40% damage should have a slightly longer pit stop that a car that just needs fuel. These are little nit pics, but something I have been wanting in Forza for a long time.

 

[Gestault]

I wonder if you can keep the view inside the car when pitting in GTS? That would make for increased immersion.

I was actually hoping if a game wanted to sort of minimize the quirks between different body styles for the animations (like I think are an issue in PC2), it could lock the view inside the car to give the impression of the crew work, but without needing as much precision. I feel like that would be a good workaround. Doubling down on the sounds inside the car with all that work happening on the outside could really sell the illusion.

I really don't care about pit stop animations, what I do care about and something I wish Forza would allow is the ability to control pit stops...if I just want fuel, I should be able to just get fuel to cut down on the pit stop time. I also think that a car that has 40% damage should have a slightly longer pit stop that a car that just needs fuel. These are little nit pics, but something I have been wanting in Forza for a long time.

Wrong thread

 

[TheAdmiester]

And in PCARS 2 it seems that they don't remove the wheels, there's 2 front wheels on each side, one guy moves a wheel like if it was removed but they don't even touch the car.
It's more immersive but they don't even change the wheels for real.

I think F1 2017 has the best pit stops for now.

Yup, it's basically just a matter of priorities and how realistic you want it to be. PC2 probably has the best balance but even that doesn't even have half the car count of Forza, and has clear cut corners in its animations. I haven't seen F1 2017's stops but by the same logic I'm guessing that with all of the cars basically having the same proportions, it's easier to refine them.

I was going to say, pit stops in PC2 get strange fast, because the fuel line generally floats above the car, or links in a completely wrong place. You often drive through the circle "hold" sign. Without exageration, I'd say it's 50/50 whether it looks/feels good or just doesn't work because of the oddity of it.

Yeah, as I mentioned you can already see where even PC2 is approaching the limit of "we have X amount of cars and Y amount of time, we can only make animations so good". Turn 10 usually don't bother doing something until they can do it right, so seeing them missing in FM7 makes sense to me even though it isn't ideal.

 

[rodrigolfp]

You know the reflections don't look like that on average, right?

Can we not cherry pick carefully selected scenes to push some agenda?



What does this have to do with this thread? Who would have thought a game with the most content but shortest development time would need to cut corners? It's sad how blatant of a troll you are.

I don't know because game is not out yet. Plus only talked about that shot.

Having tons of content doesn't invalidate that the pit spots are much worse detailed than some others.

 

[KageMaru]

I don't know because game is not out yet. Plus only talked about that shot.

Having tons of content doesn't invalidate that the pit spots are much worse detailed than some others.

I never said it invalidates anything but it could explain it. There will be shortcuts made when you have the shortest dev cycle but working on the most content. That's a fact. Doesn't change the pit stops in GTS from being done much better.

Still no one here should be giving TLW's posts any validation since he's clearly here just to troll and not have an actual conversation.

 

[Fess]

The real comedic thing is how both "gee we managed this 20 years ago, why can't Forza?" examples are games with literally one type of car. It's a tad harder to make pitstop animations work and sync up for 700 cars of varying length and width. Even pCARS 2 showed an example of this in that video, the car pulled out of the pitlane and drove straight through a member of the pit crew.

Well that could actually happen... ;P
The Forza pitstops is just science fiction.

But we're past graphics discussions now. If GTS is so far ahead in graphics that we can't discuss that here anymore, is there still a point to have this thread?

I want a next gen cockpit camera discussion thread, that's where I think the biggest differences are now. No shake in GTS, earthquake shakes in FM7, subtle shake in PC2. That's where there will still be a "war" after GTS is out, graphics not so much.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Well that could actually happen... ;P
The Forza pitstops is just science fiction.

But we're past graphics discussions now. If GTS is so far ahead in graphics that we can't discuss that here anymore, is there still a point to have this thread?

I want a next gen cockpit camera discussion thread, that's where I think the biggest differences are now. No shake in GTS, earthquake shakes in FM7, subtle shake in PC2. That's where there will still be a "war" after GTS is out, graphics not so much.

The thread will always have a purpose, that's because

Spoiler

of fanboys

over time it's become less of a graphics thread, and more of a general game tech thread. There's still plenty to discuss and GT isn't ahead on everything, for instance dynamic conditions.

Also, FM7 and PC2's shaking are adjustable. FM7 can be set to no shake whatsoever, subtle shake, or earthquake simulator, and PC2 has ridiculous control of everything camera related.

 

[nowifenolife]

oO

LOL that's the exact same spot I thought would be a good gif. Maybe I'll learn how to do them one day

 

[rodrigolfp]

Well that could actually happen... ;P
The Forza pitstops is just science fiction.

But we're past graphics discussions now. If GTS is so far ahead in graphics that we can't discuss that here anymore, is there still a point to have this thread?

I want a next gen cockpit camera discussion thread, that's where I think the biggest differences are now. No shake in GTS, earthquake shakes in FM7, subtle shake in PC2. That's where there will still be a "war" after GTS is out, graphics not so much.

GTS

pCARS 2

So far ahead. Wow.

 

[Putty]

So far ahead. Wow.

A Youtube compressed image Vs a direct screengrab? Seems legit...

 

[orava]

A Youtube compressed image Vs a direct screengrab? Seems legit...

A raw lossless capture would not save that shot.

 

[rodrigolfp]

A Youtube compressed image Vs a direct screengrab? Seems legit...

Youtube? Someone took a .png from youtube? Plus the PC2 is a jpg.

 

[Drackhorn]

For completionists' sake, here's an example of pit stops in GTS.

I wonder if you can keep the view inside the car when pitting in GTS? That would make for increased immersion.

Soon.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Youtube? Someone took a .png from youtube?

Yes? You realize you can save images in whatever format you want, right?

But still, that's not a favorable comparison.

 

[thelastword]

That is beyond lazy pit stop xD

So there are "pixelated" trees being reflected? Either way something is not right.

As I said, the trees in that section are not pixelated at all, so maybe it will be ironed out before launch or a bug....The game is still not out btw....

The real comedic thing is how both "gee we managed this 20 years ago, why can't Forza?" examples are games with literally one type of car. It's a tad harder to make pitstop animations work and sync up for 700 cars of varying length and width. Even pCARS 2 showed an example of this in that video, the car pulled out of the pitlane and drove straight through a member of the pit crew.

Yes, nice excuse, because pretty much all racers worth their salt and some of those "which didn't" from more than a decade, at least had pit crews ....From then up to 2017, how about all those racers in between which provided pitcrews on cars with various width length et al and with 100's of cars at that....?.

I laughed at the bit where the driver drove through the guy in PC2 tbh, I said it was comedic didn't I, but certainly it's not the biggest joke in that video....innit?

If you can't see that 20 years ago, there was enough ATD in racers where something as basic and staple as pitting was exemplified and detailed which puts it in grave contrast to a lauded 2017 racer, I don't think there's much more I need to say tbh..

What really messed it up for F7 was that first part of the video, because I remember that F7 trailer well, and what was prominent to me was that pit crew, the garage et al, so when I realized Forza's pits had no hair in realtime...It was kinda baffling and also funny, but it's defintely falsified marketing on their part tbh, as I expected to see proper pitting..

What does this have to do with this thread? Who would have thought a game with the most content but shortest development time would need to cut corners? It's sad how blatant of a troll you are.

One of the most visual/staple things in a racer should not be discussed in a visual thread? You know how many times you have to pit in endurance races? Perhaps you should start dealing with what is, because this is not fake news, and yet, you don't want it presented. But yes, I'll be sure to run it by you before I hit submit next time, sir

 

[Sebmugi]

LOL that's the exact same spot I thought would be a good gif. Maybe I'll learn how to do them one day

lol I'm not a gif pro either, I just use this, which is within the reach of all

https://imgur.com/vidgif try with one youtube video link

 

[rodrigolfp]

Yes? You realize you can save images in whatever format you want, right?

But still, that's not a favorable comparison.

You don't say?

But the poster of that images took a png from YT and a jpg direct from PC2? Makes no sense if so.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/133840177@N02/

i don't think the GT one is YT.

 

[Fess]

So far ahead. Wow.

Every game can look bad if one choose to post a picture with the intent to make it look bad. Even Driveclub had plenty of those. With GTS it'll be harder since it's 60fps and has a lighting engine that is superb, it'll be more about studying tiny details from here on, without nitpicking GTS will always be ahead.

But if we're looking at how things behave... like in the cockpit view. If it isn't a menu option then, yeah, not so far ahead. Personally I just can't unsee how incredibly stale GTS looks in the latest videos. No shake from the road, no shake from crashes, no high speed vibrations, no steering wheel vibrations, no exterior/interior rattle, no nothing. It's just... dead.

 

[Three]

Who would have thought a game with the most content but shortest development time would need to cut corners? It's sad how blatant of a troll you are.

Not Turn 10 themselves apparently, 'All in-game 4k footage' my ass. Unless they meant this footage is in the game which is stupidly misleading.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Guess I'm biting the bait again.

Yes, nice excuse, because pretty much all racers worth their salt and some of those "which didn't" from more than a decade, at least had pit crews ....From then up to 2017, how about all those racers in between which provided pitcrews on cars with various width length et al and with 100's of cars at that....?.

I laughed at the bit where the driver drove through the guy in PC2 tbh, I said it was comedic didn't I, but certainly it's not the biggest joke in that video....innit?

Because 100-200 cars =/= 700 cars? Either the games get the pit stops perfectly right for 10 to 20 cars, or they have a generic solution that works for a few hundred. Invisible/magic pitstops is Forza's idea of "generic for almost a thousand". Is it perfect? God no, but has any game this generation done it better with a similar amount of cars? Nope.

Like I said, PC2 strikes the closest balance of car count to pit animation detail, and even that has issues such as driving through things or things not lining up right.

Your part about implying that older games have more attention to detail is horseshit even for your standards so I'm not even addressing that.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Every game can look bad if one choose to post a picture with the intent to make it look bad. Even Driveclub had plenty of those. With GTS it'll be harder since it's 60fps and has a lighting engine that is superb, it'll be more about studying tiny details from here on, without nitpicking GTS will always be ahead.

But if we're looking at how things behave... like in the cockpit view. If it isn't a menu option then, yeah, not so far ahead. Personally I just can't unsee how incredibly stale GTS looks in the latest videos. No shake from the road, no shake from crashes, no high speed vibrations, no steering wheel vibrations, no exterior/interior rattle, no nothing. It's just... dead.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/133840177@N02/

Are you saying that the guy with that galery is trying to make the game look bad? 0.o

 

[Synth]

Not Turn 10 themselves apparently, 'All in-game 4k footage' my ass. Unless they meant this footage is in the game which is stupidly misleading.

Doubtful, because the "all in-game footage" stuff has been applied to trailers for all Forza's going back as far as Forza Motorsport 3, and some of it is for certain not in the games themselves (stuff like FM4's Porsche Expansion Trailer for example).

 

[Fess]

Guess I'm biting the bait again.



Because 100-200 cars =/= 700 cars? Either the games get the pit stops perfectly right for 10 to 20 cars, or they have a generic solution that works for a few hundred. Invisible/magic pitstops is Forza's idea of "generic for almost a thousand". Is it perfect? God no, but has any game this generation done it better with a similar amount of cars? Nope.

Like I said, PC2 strikes the closest balance of car count to pit animation detail, and even that has issues such as driving through things or things not lining up right.

Your part about implying that older games have more attention to detail is horseshit even for your standards so I'm not even addressing that.

If they knew they couldn't do it in time they should've just faded out the video and used a still image of a pit crew with the sounds or whatever, the current pitstops are so incredibly lazy and takes you out of the otherwise great immersion.

 

[theWB27]

As I said, the trees in that section are not pixelated at all, so maybe it will be ironed out before launch or a bug....The game is still not out btw....

Yes, nice excuse, because pretty much all racers worth their salt and some of those "which didn't" from more than a decade, at least had pit crews ....From then up to 2017, how about all those racers in between which provided pitcrews on cars with various width length et al and with 100's of cars at that....?.

I laughed at the bit where the driver drove through the guy in PC2 tbh, I said it was comedic didn't I, but certainly it's not the biggest joke in that video....innit?

If you can't see that 20 years ago, there was enough ATD in racers where something as basic and staple as pitting was exemplified and detailed which puts it in grave contrast to a lauded 2017 racer, I don't think there's much more I need to say tbh..

What really messed it up for F7 was that first part of the video, because I remember that F7 trailer well, and what was prominent to me was that pit crew, the garage et al, so when I realized Forza's pits had no hair in realtime...It was kinda baffling and also funny, but it's defintely falsified marketing on their part tbh, as I expected to see proper pitting..


One of the most visual/staple things in a racer should not be discussed in a visual thread? You know how many times you have to pit in endurance races? Perhaps you should start dealing with what is, because this is not fake news, and yet, you don't want it presented. But yes, I'll be sure to run it by you before I hit submit next time, sir

Are there some things F7 does well to you? Tech wise...

If they knew they couldn't do it in time they should've just faded out the video and used a still image of a pit crew with the sounds or whatever, the current pitstops are so incredibly lazy and takes you out of the otherwise great immersion.

You mean a still image interrupting gameplay is less jarring? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Fess]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/133840177@N02/

Are you saying that the guy with that galery is trying to make the game look bad? 0.o

It's the same in all camps, you simply don't see someone who loves PC2/FM7/GTS post pics where it looks bad, the pics or videos where these games look are always posted by someone with an agenda to make that game look bad. There are no unbiased posts of that kind here.

 

[Synth]

Are there some things F7 does well to you? Tech wise...

I can already see a response about best that they could do given weak hardware, blah blah

 

[thelastword]

Not Turn 10 themselves apparently, 'All in-game 4k footage' my ass. Unless they meant this footage is in the game which is stupidly misleading.

Hey!

Because 100-200 cars =/= 700 cars? Either the games get the pit stops perfectly right for 10 to 20 cars, or they have a generic solution that works for a few hundred. Invisible/magic pitstops is Forza's idea of "generic for almost a thousand". Is it perfect? God no, but has any game this generation done it better with a similar amount of cars? Nope.

Like I said, PC2 strikes the closest balance of car count to pit animation detail, and even that has issues such as driving through things or things not lining up right.

Your part about implying that older games have more attention to detail is horseshit even for your standards so I'm not even addressing that.

Are you for real, you're talking about perfect pitting when F7 does not even have the basics laid down for said purpose. How are you going to do pitting without a crew? Don't talk of quality just yet, when F7 does not even have a crew at all...

That's the whole point of the video, to show that racers even way back then could have gotten away with that, but they felt it was staple and important enough to include it....else it would be jarring and ridiculous especially for a sim racer with enduro races et al...You're now making excuses on car lengths and widths..SMH... as if games like GT5 didn't have proper pitstops with over 1100 cars...