Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
If you have a 4K tv go for the quality mode, if not just go for the performance mode for better visuals and performance.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
Monad
Member
That's because you're a legit fan and have an open mind to criticism (a perfectly normal thing if you really want to give feedback in order to get the issues corrected in the future).
The others are simply dumb and childish fanboys who don't even enjoy the game beyond writing nonsenses here.
Gingen
Banned
The others are simply people aware that GTS runs on an old PS4, not on a 1000$ pc or a 500$ and most recent console.
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psn
Member
So I bought The Crew 2, because I wanted to bridge the time to FH4.
What I instantly noticed is the abuse of motion blur and (temporal?) antialiasing. It is so bad, I nearly had to vomit, but I am very sensitive to that, so that is just my opinion on that.
The worst part was: I couldn't turn it off. So I googled for a solution and found the "PCScalability.xml" in the documents folder.
I was able to edit some values and get rid of the motion blur and the anti aliasing. However, it looks like this now:
Yes, the AA is gone. Yes, the motion blur is gone too. But they both seem to masquerade the grey dots that are all over the place. What the fuck Ubisoft.
And why tf is there a 60fps lock. I wish I could get a return.
Just to clear things up: I can decide between this and the latter here:
make sure to view them in fullscreen.
Haven't found much about it yet, just a review where they wrote: "The heavy bloom effect masks with malice the weakness of the Crew 2 graphics system that a few years ago could have been enough, but that today shows the rope." (Google translator from italian)
https://multiplayer.it/recensioni/the-crew-2-recensione-201671.html
What I instantly noticed is the abuse of motion blur and (temporal?) antialiasing. It is so bad, I nearly had to vomit, but I am very sensitive to that, so that is just my opinion on that.
The worst part was: I couldn't turn it off. So I googled for a solution and found the "PCScalability.xml" in the documents folder.
I was able to edit some values and get rid of the motion blur and the anti aliasing. However, it looks like this now:
Yes, the AA is gone. Yes, the motion blur is gone too. But they both seem to masquerade the grey dots that are all over the place. What the fuck Ubisoft.
And why tf is there a 60fps lock. I wish I could get a return.
Just to clear things up: I can decide between this and the latter here:
make sure to view them in fullscreen.
Haven't found much about it yet, just a review where they wrote: "The heavy bloom effect masks with malice the weakness of the Crew 2 graphics system that a few years ago could have been enough, but that today shows the rope." (Google translator from italian)
https://multiplayer.it/recensioni/the-crew-2-recensione-201671.html
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TheAdmiester
Member
Looks like the grey dots are from their SSR implementation. I'm guessing it's a low-res/grainy implementation that only works properly when it's blurred together by the TAA. I'm not sure if you can disable SSR but it might be worth checking, but it's a shame that to get rid of the awful TAA we'd have to lose SSR too.
thelastword
Banned
What? I forgot that was the type of guy you are Admiester.....You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You even suggest TC2 is using TAA, where? You say GTS is using TAA, where?....You say the PBR pipeline is so heavy they have to use cheaper AA? What....You don't even do your research, you just spout anything that can't be corroborated and which makes no sense whatsoever.......So when I don't apply any AA in TC2 or perhaps FXAA, TAA is in use? My word......FYI, Crew uses FXAA, which is probably the AA method that blurs the most and still doesn't cover all forms of aliasing. TAA is pretty good at covering specular aliasing and overly lit highlights and the exact thing you're complaining of (ghosting), it reduces ghosting in motion in combo with some PP effects. Effects common in every game at the minute.
At the start of this gen, we heard of ghosting with HRAA from Ubisoft in FC4, it was noticeable to some but even that was patched up and it's now a jaggieless affair with minimal to no ghosting. You know how many forms of TAA there is in use, even if TAA was used in a title, it does not mean it will ghost. These AA methods have improved alot from inception phases, even so, there are combinations of AA methods now to bring in the final image in many titles.
I don't see anything impressive here as far as composition, not the cars, not the materials, not the lighting, not the distant detail, not the snow or foliage....Where are the impressive shadows, farless for selfshadowing on foliage or that they would accept and reflect light sources?????I can not wait to see the evolution from FH 3!!
Again, show me this in motion and show me where it eclispes other racers because you won't do it in stills due to typical Forza cutbacks.....All I see is another poster posting 4k screens and thinking that rez eclispes detail and a higher render budget>>>>> Tis isn't so...
In anycase, now that Horizon is going for 60fps in an open world, there might be more cutbacks that will have to happen towards that end. So PC hardware is what will win in the end and you might be able to push rez in Horizon just as you could in Forza 7, but some sacrifices will have to be made.....You don't get double performance at no cost.....
So, I'm back to representing the way we play, in motion.........
You can put in DC vids to go against the Horizon vids if you so wish, but we know how that ends....In motion the way we play, when all the rendering budget "or lackthereof"
comes together.....
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TheAdmiester
Member
Holy fuck you're oblivious. None of the rest of your post really says anything so I'm just gonna quote this one and disprove it. I fucking love that you claim I don't do any research while ignoring the research in the two posts above you.
Not only do the two posts above you directly discuss disabling TAA, but it's right here in the files. In the config files in TC2's documents folder entry, we have this:
And inside that file is this:
And I know that rock solid proof isn't good enough for you, so I'm going to pre-empt you: before you try to respond with "you could've just made those files" or "show me proof in these videos I posted", cut the shit.
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thelastword
Banned
Ok, now show me how this proves theres no longer any ghosting as you said and the game looks better for it? and whilst you're at it , prove to me the TAA implementation in GTS.....I'm simply asking you to prove what you're saying instead of spouting...Holy fuck you're oblivious. None of the rest of your post really says anything so I'm just gonna quote this one and disprove it. I fucking love that you claim I don't do any research while ignoring the research in the two posts above you.
Not only do the two posts above you directly discuss disabling TAA, but it's right here in the files. In the config files in TC2's documents folder entry, we have this:
And inside that file is this:
And I know that rock solid proof isn't good enough for you, so I'm going to pre-empt you: before you try to respond with "you could've just made those files" or "show me proof in these videos I posted", cut the shit.
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Holy fuck you're oblivious. None of the rest of your post really says anything so I'm just gonna quote this one and disprove it. I fucking love that you claim I don't do any research while ignoring the research in the two posts above you.
Not only do the two posts above you directly discuss disabling TAA, but it's right here in the files. In the config files in TC2's documents folder entry, we have this:
And inside that file is this:
And I know that rock solid proof isn't good enough for you, so I'm going to pre-empt you: before you try to respond with "you could've just made those files" or "show me proof in these videos I posted", cut the shit.
Mate its your fault, you take a troll serious. He is never gonna admit it, just let it go. He knows too that its not true what he says, but he can't admit it.Holy fuck you're oblivious. None of the rest of your post really says anything so I'm just gonna quote this one and disprove it. I fucking love that you claim I don't do any research while ignoring the research in the two posts above you.
Not only do the two posts above you directly discuss disabling TAA, but it's right here in the files. In the config files in TC2's documents folder entry, we have this:
And inside that file is this:
And I know that rock solid proof isn't good enough for you, so I'm going to pre-empt you: before you try to respond with "you could've just made those files" or "show me proof in these videos I posted", cut the shit.
TheAdmiester
Member
Like I said about GT Sport, there's no concrete way to prove it unless we had some dev/Digital Foundry confirmation. I noticed the very obvious hallmarks of TAA on the interior gauges and that's it.
As for The Crew 2's TAA ghosting, easy. Here's some solid proof for you.
No motion blur, a tiny time of day difference (but in both cases the TAA-affected area is shown in shadow so this is irrelevant):
TAA Enabled - You can clearly see a silhouetted duplicate of the car, and actually another (but more faded) silhouette behind that one. Visible as low as 30mph or so. Happens from every camera angle but it's most obvious here.
TAA Disabled - Moving at more than 2x the speed of the TAA pic but still no ghosting whatsoever in a similar shadowed area behind the car.
thelastword
Banned
Ok that's fair, TAA is forced and you can disable it in an xml file, but like I said. TAA is known to reduce/remove ghosting with the combo of certain PP effects, maybe Ubisoft is using the wrong ones here...They did have an issue with HRAA with FC4 and that was corrected. So your suggestion that TAA brings with it ghosting automatically was wrong, it's not automatic and it's the reason why I said there are different implementations of TAA. Even wth CBR on PS4 PRO, the default TAA implementation can be configured much further on a manual level....
I'm sure, UBI will patch this, but without TAA IQ is terrible, especially if you have to fall back on just an awful FXAA and perhaps if SSR is still on, that may complicate the image even more. I'm not saying there are no issues here, but IQ without TAA is awful here. I think in the meantime, the best workaround for the crew2 is to at least set TAA to 1, set 16xAF in the NV CP and set ao to SSA0+....
I'm sure, UBI will patch this, but without TAA IQ is terrible, especially if you have to fall back on just an awful FXAA and perhaps if SSR is still on, that may complicate the image even more. I'm not saying there are no issues here, but IQ without TAA is awful here. I think in the meantime, the best workaround for the crew2 is to at least set TAA to 1, set 16xAF in the NV CP and set ao to SSA0+....
TheAdmiester
Member
Every time I've seen TAA there has been ghosting with it though. Case in point - anything on UE4 (PUBG, AC Competizione), GTA 5, Frostbite (newer NFSes), anything from Ubisoft... etc. I'm fairly sure though not certain that due to TAA's nature of using previous frame data, that ghosting is simply an inherent trait of it and can't be avoided.
thelastword
Banned
There's no way any modern engine does away with TAA or PPAA due to the advanced lighting solutions. MSAA can't anti-aliase transparencies or do the work of a temporal solution, so it has to be used...However there is documentation and various implementations of TAA which exhibits no ghosting.
I want to clear this by saying that I did mention that Crew2's IQ was definitely worse than Horzion 3, my takeaway was that the shadows, lighting and larger world was superior, especially water on a largescale, it's impressive in that light. Yet I think it's IQ issues can be resolved, there's alot that could cause conflicts with transparencies here....
I want to clear this by saying that I did mention that Crew2's IQ was definitely worse than Horzion 3, my takeaway was that the shadows, lighting and larger world was superior, especially water on a largescale, it's impressive in that light. Yet I think it's IQ issues can be resolved, there's alot that could cause conflicts with transparencies here....
What's SSR? SSR as in screen space reflections? It's not the use of SSR. The dots are specular aliasing. bidirectional reflectance distribution function (BRDF) for reflectance is usually the cause of things like this.
TheAdmiester
Member
Yeah, SSR as in reflections. I still think the dots are SSR to be honest, I tested disabling TAA myself and they only appeared on areas where SSR was active (e.g. looking at a car at an extreme angle or a wet road). You might be right but I want to do some more testing before I make a conclusion.
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It's a well known issue of light reflectance. Wet and low angles increase intensity of light reflection according to the angle in BRDF. that light isn't the SSR it's the shader. Just the intensity of light reflected being greater and causing this specular aliasing when things are shiny and low angles. Ofcourse once this is rendered to the framebuffer then that same grainy render will be in the SSR because it uses that same render but SSR is not the cause of the issue.
Again I don't think GT Sport is using TAA. Two reasons. It still has specular aliasing and two because they use MSAA (which again doesn't remove specular aliasing as much as TAA). The ghosting you see may be a result of CBR because that uses previous frames to reconstruct the next one. GT sport should use TAA because it's cheaper and will be good with CBR but it seems to use MSAA as far as I know.
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TheAdmiester
Member
I'm still not fully convinced here. Beware the pic dump but I've tried to research it in depth, and I can still only ever see the grainyness on SSR projections with TAA disabled, more specifically on the transition between SSR and the cubemap fall-back.
See this first comparison. Only the areas where the pyramid is reflecting the car and other buildings has the grainyness.
Then here, where the camera has moved to hide all but a tiny part of the car from the SSR plane, but at the same low angle:
Here only the end of the mirror's SSR image is grainy, while everything else at the same angle is smooth:
Another pic showing the SSR-cubemap transition:
And at the same low angle (panned slightly differently to prevent the SSR reflections of course) the cubemap is totally smooth:
The rims of the car are showing dark grainy spots (dark blue, trying to reflect the car) despite *not* being at an extreme angle:
And finally, the same rim of the car with nothing else on screen. Grainyness is gone, except for the brake discs which are trying to reflect the rims:
In every single instance I've seen I can only observe grainy artefacts on surfaces using SSR. If the artefact was being rendered onto the framebuffer and merely mirrored in SSR, then I'd imagine it would be visible in cases where SSR is not being used. Even in the case of a bright setting with high specular/reflection intensity, such as a road on a bright but rainy day, I can only see the grainy images when the road is reflecting objects on screen. If I occlude everything and look at the road at a low angle where it reflects nothing but the bright sky from its cubemap, it still looks as it should.
I feel that the grainyness is almost certainly from the SSR. I assume (don't know for sure of course) that it was designed this way to lower the graphical load, or to compensate for something, and that it was designed with TAA in mind as the devs assumedly didn't intend for us to remove TAA.
I only explicitly stated that the digital cockpit gauges seemed to use TAA. If I said or implied that the game as a whole uses it then that wasn't my intention. I can tell GTS uses MSAA because it actually completely lacks the ghosting I mentioned previously as a hallmark of TAA, and the image quality is a lot cleaner than any TAA game I've ever played, even at 1080p on the normal PS4. I've only seen it on the digital dials but due to their nature it's hard to prove, I'm just going by what I've observed and what I know of how TAA looks.
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freefornow
Member
Colour me surprised!
DemonCleaner
Member
that grainy stuff could be artifacts from some low sample raytracing effect. it looks like it's also active on angles you shouldn't normally get SSRs.
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TBiddy
Member
Perhaps the issue is that he's actually blind?
VisualFidelity
Member
crew 2 ftw xbox1x
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GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
phil_t98
#SonyToo
What? I forgot that was the type of guy you are Admiester.....You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You even suggest TC2 is using TAA, where? You say GTS is using TAA, where?....You say the PBR pipeline is so heavy they have to use cheaper AA? What....You don't even do your research, you just spout anything that can't be corroborated and which makes no sense whatsoever.......So when I don't apply any AA in TC2 or perhaps FXAA, TAA is in use? My word......FYI, Crew uses FXAA, which is probably the AA method that blurs the most and still doesn't cover all forms of aliasing. TAA is pretty good at covering specular aliasing and overly lit highlights and the exact thing you're complaining of (ghosting), it reduces ghosting in motion in combo with some PP effects. Effects common in every game at the minute.
At the start of this gen, we heard of ghosting with HRAA from Ubisoft in FC4, it was noticeable to some but even that was patched up and it's now a jaggieless affair with minimal to no ghosting. You know how many forms of TAA there is in use, even if TAA was used in a title, it does not mean it will ghost. These AA methods have improved alot from inception phases, even so, there are combinations of AA methods now to bring in the final image in many titles.
I don't see anything impressive here as far as composition, not the cars, not the materials, not the lighting, not the distant detail, not the snow or foliage....Where are the impressive shadows, farless for selfshadowing on foliage or that they would accept and reflect light sources?????
Again, show me this in motion and show me where it eclispes other racers because you won't do it in stills due to typical Forza cutbacks.....All I see is another poster posting 4k screens and thinking that rez eclispes detail and a higher render budget>>>>> Tis isn't so...
In anycase, now that Horizon is going for 60fps in an open world, there might be more cutbacks that will have to happen towards that end. So PC hardware is what will win in the end and you might be able to push rez in Horizon just as you could in Forza 7, but some sacrifices will have to be made.....You don't get double performance at no cost.....
So, I'm back to representing the way we play, in motion.........
You can put in DC vids to go against the Horizon vids if you so wish, but we know how that ends....In motion the way we play, when all the rendering budget "or lackthereof"
who ever put together the Forza videos especially the horizon ones do not know what they are doing. Forza horizon 2 at night where you can see no detail at all wheres its dark and in a tunnel, Forza Horizon 3 in car view and through a forest where again not much to see. if you think that is representative of the games your very wrong. Drive Club is a good looking game but it is doing so much less that the Forza Horizon games so no idea what you compare them so much
thelastword
Banned
Mod edit: when making image heavy posts please consider spoiler tags for those on mobile. Also ensure you are using like for like approximations in image comparisons.
Forza 7 vs GTS
Forza 7-Max Detail on PC at 1080p with 125% resolution scaling....(downsampled)
GTS 1080p Mode PS4 PRO.
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7 vs GTS
Forza 7-Max Detail on PC at 1080p with 125% resolution scaling....(downsampled)
GTS 1080p Mode PS4 PRO.
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
Forza 7
GTS
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nkarafo
Member
The trees in Forza 7 are the ugliest thing i have ever seen in any recent game. I stopped playing in any stage that has trees for that reason. Everything else looks modern and "next gen" and they decided to place some late 90's PC racing low res cardboard trees that don't look distracting at all in their hideousness.
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What exactly are you showing here other than completely different images? You're the biggest troll there is with your shots.Haha still posting photomode compresed low setting images vs ps4 pro photomode images, what a troll.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
yup posting real high quality gameplay shots of both games is trolling, still salty i see.
Anyway im going on vacation, see you guys next month.
thelastword
Banned
Thanks for the edit mods, but I figured I'd post all the pic comparisons in one post. Also since this is a comparison thread, I never view them on mobile and will encourage no one to do so. You can't see the differences properly on mobile anyway.....
Also, I want to say that these are not my pics, but it has long been extablished that GTS does not add any extra detail in photo/replay-mode on numerous occasions in this thread. This is 1080p mode in GTS and 1080p mode in Forza7, even more advantageous for Forza since it has 125% scaling and then downsampled, in no way is this an unfair comparison......GTS has motion blur at 1080p mode in gameplay and it's what you're seeing here.....Again, this is Forza 7 at max detail on a beastly PC.
Pics courtesy of (Benzy)......
Also, I want to say that these are not my pics, but it has long been extablished that GTS does not add any extra detail in photo/replay-mode on numerous occasions in this thread. This is 1080p mode in GTS and 1080p mode in Forza7, even more advantageous for Forza since it has 125% scaling and then downsampled, in no way is this an unfair comparison......GTS has motion blur at 1080p mode in gameplay and it's what you're seeing here.....Again, this is Forza 7 at max detail on a beastly PC.
Pics courtesy of (Benzy)......
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Troll response as expected. posting screenshots isn't the issue. You post images and just say 'lol', 'fanboys', 'salty' or whatever and don't actually say what you are disputing or saying. That's trolling and I'm calling you out on it. There was a post with images and stated settings. what were you disputing or discussing by calling it a troll? Were you even making a point? You were mod warned about posting troll images without context and you continue to do it regardless. we have a troll calling a troll a troll. A suggestion how about taking like for like shots of what you were provided and discussing what you think is being misrepresented? How does that sound? I know it's no good for you because it doesn't help your habit of simply posting images that aren't even like for like with lies and 'lol' and calling others trolls/fanboys when you are one of the biggest trolls in this thread yourself. I'll take the time to make an example to help, when you want to dispute say an image like this
And this is even photomode lol
But keep taking these Ls, come back if you find something wrong or bad in Forza lol.
You don't just post some random screenshot and say 'lol photomode' you should try and post an actual like for like image and discuss what your actual point is which you try and deliberately not do it seems.
Here is an example of a more like for like shot:
Then you can discuss that in the youtube video the ceiling lights aren't light sources so the tunnel is pitch black. You can discuss how the headlight may have changed so on and so forth. Not doctor or cherry pick your shots and give no point or explaination about what you are trying to show (other than trying hard to make one game look bad and the other good that is)
T TheAdmiester that's really good work, thanks for the crew shots. You are right ofcourse. There is a good writeup by a ubi dev about how they do their SSR and the need for TAA there
https://bartwronski.com/2014/01/25/the-future-of-screenspace-reflections/
It's pretty much exactly how they implemented it in The Crew 2
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Funny that you never react to someone else when they post compressed low setting Forza shots against GTS PS4 pro shots, but call me out for cherry picking and trolling. You are the one thats trolling when you see Forza looking better than GTS in game. All my shots where at the same location with almost the same lighting and highest quality image that the device put out. Your mate on the other hand post low compressed low setting shots against GTS on pro will using photomode. I have over 40h on GTS in 2~month and 300h on both Forza's, i see clearly wich one looks better. Why would i cherrypick or doctor a game that i love and play soo much? And funny you waited a week to post that image, still not close to that image from the trailer.Troll response as expected. posting screenshots isn't the issue. You post images and just say 'lol', 'fanboys', 'salty' or whatever and don't actually say what you are disputing or saying. That's trolling and I'm calling you out on it. There was a post with images and stated settings. what were you disputing or discussing by calling it a troll? Were you even making a point? You were mod warned about posting troll images without context and you continue to do it regardless. we have a troll calling a troll a troll. A suggestion how about taking like for like shots of what you were provided and discussing what you think is being misrepresented? How does that sound? I know it's no good for you because it doesn't help your habit of simply posting images that aren't even like for like with lies and 'lol' and calling others trolls/fanboys when you are one of the biggest trolls in this thread yourself. I'll take the time to make an example to help, when you want to dispute say an image like this
You don't just post some random screenshot and say 'lol photomode' you should try and post an actual like for like image and discuss what your actual point is which you try and deliberately not do it seems.
Here is an example of a more like for like shot:
Then you can discuss that in the youtube video the ceiling lights aren't light sources so the tunnel is pitch black. You can discuss how the headlight may have changed so on and so forth. Not doctor or cherry pick your shots and give no point or explaination about what you are trying to show (other than trying hard to make one game look bad and the other good that is)
T TheAdmiester that's really good work, thanks for the crew shots. You are right ofcourse. There is a good writeup by a ubi dev about how they do their SSR and the need for TAA there
https://bartwronski.com/2014/01/25/the-future-of-screenspace-reflections/
It's pretty much exactly how they implemented it in The Crew 2
The image shows clearly that each headlight cast light, in you image its just 1 light coming from the car. Look at the reflections on the road, you see it clear. And the light that is on the wall is not even the same, its much lower quality without the rainbow effect. Also keep in mind thats all photomode, in the trailer it says gameplay. And i still wait for you to prove that my shots are doctored, you have 2 weeks before i return from my vacation.
Oblivious to what I'm saying as always. I'm saying make a point, show like for like same shots without compression then and not 'low settings' because they were posted at max settings or at least they say they were so prove otherwise. Follow the conversation, have a discussion not 'lol' 'fanboy' 'troll' *insert random photo without a point*. What's funny about posting the image a week after when you've completely missed the point why it's even posted?Funny that you never react to someone else when they post compressed low setting Forza shots against GTS PS4 pro shots, but call me out for cherry picking and trolling. You are the one thats trolling when you see Forza looking better than GTS in game. All my shots where at the same location with almost the same lighting and highest quality image that the device put out. Your mate on the other hand post low compressed low setting shots against GTS on pro will using photomode. I have over 40h on GTS in 2~month and 300h on both Forza's, i see clearly wich one looks better. Why would i cherrypick or doctor a game that i love and play soo much? And funny you waited a week to post that image, still not close to that image from the trailer.
The image shows clearly that each headlight cast light, in you image its just 1 light coming from the car. Look at the reflections on the road, you see it clear. And the light that is on the wall is not even the same, its much lower quality without the rainbow effect. Also keep in mind thats all photomode, in the trailer it says gameplay. And i still wait for you to prove that my shots are doctored, you have 2 weeks before i return from my vacation.
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thelastword
Banned
What is the Turk poster talking about???? All the pics here are PNG files, where are the low quality pics...?
Moreso, what Turk does is to just spam the thread with pics with no context, no debate or explanation, no proper comparison and many compressed pics. And prior to that posted many disingenuous pics with JPG quality etc........This is an environment detail comparison above, there are no cars on screen for a reason, environment detail is not enhanced in photomode....
For one who posts these pics (below) to represent GTS, which are mostly JPG's and the worse PNG captures you can find....You sure are one to talk down Benzy's comparison.
......and yet, your Forza pics are the best captures you can find with photomode shots with motionblur quality which you don't get during gameplay in the game. At least GTS has high quality MB in 1080p mode and your shots are Forza7 PC vs Console GTS as it is..
And of course this blast from the past (below), which is yet another JPG mind-you, where you still have not identified it's origins and you never answered, which mode in GTS this is from or if this was a PRO or vanilla machine......or whether this was pro vs vanilla.....So when doing comparisons, people need context, which I gave, they need details.....which I also gave, but you just keep on dancing around points and being disingenuos with your pics or unforthcoming with any valid argument...
And FYI, the shots in Benzy's comparison are not low settings in Forza 7 as you've suggested, I mean who needs to play Forza 7 on low settings on PC anyway, any mid gen or even low end PC plays this at max at 1080p......farless a high end PC.
Again, the comparison showed no cars, it was an envrionmental detail comparison, where environmental detail is not altered in GTS, yet not all the shots are photomode shots anyway, so stop trying to misrepresent this comparison. Context, do you know it?
Moreso, what Turk does is to just spam the thread with pics with no context, no debate or explanation, no proper comparison and many compressed pics. And prior to that posted many disingenuous pics with JPG quality etc........This is an environment detail comparison above, there are no cars on screen for a reason, environment detail is not enhanced in photomode....
For one who posts these pics (below) to represent GTS, which are mostly JPG's and the worse PNG captures you can find....You sure are one to talk down Benzy's comparison.
......and yet, your Forza pics are the best captures you can find with photomode shots with motionblur quality which you don't get during gameplay in the game. At least GTS has high quality MB in 1080p mode and your shots are Forza7 PC vs Console GTS as it is..
And of course this blast from the past (below), which is yet another JPG mind-you, where you still have not identified it's origins and you never answered, which mode in GTS this is from or if this was a PRO or vanilla machine......or whether this was pro vs vanilla.....So when doing comparisons, people need context, which I gave, they need details.....which I also gave, but you just keep on dancing around points and being disingenuos with your pics or unforthcoming with any valid argument...
And FYI, the shots in Benzy's comparison are not low settings in Forza 7 as you've suggested, I mean who needs to play Forza 7 on low settings on PC anyway, any mid gen or even low end PC plays this at max at 1080p......farless a high end PC.
Again, the comparison showed no cars, it was an envrionmental detail comparison, where environmental detail is not altered in GTS, yet not all the shots are photomode shots anyway, so stop trying to misrepresent this comparison. Context, do you know it?
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It is in any mode. Pro or Vanilla too. It happens when you pause the game, it's not photomode either just a pause screen. GTS does not have adaptive tesselation like GT6 but it still has performance based LOD meaning it can bump up the model within the game if the situation permits. When you pause the game it still renders the scene but frees GPU power and it switches to higher LOD. That car is an extremely visible case of it. You can notice if you pay close attention that some other cars also do it where it is visible in the car logos.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
The only thing I trust when looking at GT Sport is video of actual gameplay. Polyphony Digital spent a lot of time of photo mode for a reason.
Have GT Sport and think it looks great, but I yearned for a car collector game. Went out and bought a One X after buying into the hype here about forza 7 looking so great.... boy was that a lie.
The overall presentation is terrible. Everything from the goofy looking drivers suits to car modeling and paint shaders.. they are downright horrid compared to Gran Turismo 5 or 6 let alone Sport. Tracks look video gamey and the faux super bright glare they try to implement on the track to give it the GT real look is awful. Then the replays are a whole other despicable area, total amateur hour trying to mimic something that they just don’t quite understand.. they need to hire ex video broadcast professionals or something.
The most disgusting example of the abhorrent paint shaders in Forza is that BMW M2 in Blue or even the BMW 1M in that awesome orange ... Tried to go into the paint shop to fix them myself and couldn’t. The whole user interface is awful as well, the auction house and finding good paints,(not the jank they recommend) used to be so easy in forza.
Basically I can’t believe I fell for this hype in here, I should have known better.
The overall presentation is terrible. Everything from the goofy looking drivers suits to car modeling and paint shaders.. they are downright horrid compared to Gran Turismo 5 or 6 let alone Sport. Tracks look video gamey and the faux super bright glare they try to implement on the track to give it the GT real look is awful. Then the replays are a whole other despicable area, total amateur hour trying to mimic something that they just don’t quite understand.. they need to hire ex video broadcast professionals or something.
The most disgusting example of the abhorrent paint shaders in Forza is that BMW M2 in Blue or even the BMW 1M in that awesome orange ... Tried to go into the paint shop to fix them myself and couldn’t. The whole user interface is awful as well, the auction house and finding good paints,(not the jank they recommend) used to be so easy in forza.
Basically I can’t believe I fell for this hype in here, I should have known better.
hollowcupra
Member
I can't really tell them apart. Both games have their ups and downs. I like the racing heart of GTS but at the same time i hate the only online requirements, the lack of content and car mods. With Forza i like the huge content and the car modification options but it doesn't have that racing feeling i get from GTS.
Graphic wise i think both of them hold up really good, GTS feels more authentic, while Forza more gamey, more plastic, but still with good graphics and it's sense of speed is a bit better than GTS though the feeling of the speed is better on GTS. It's hard to explain it. In Forza you can see that the cars go fast but you can really feel it, on GTS it seems they go a bit slow but you feel the speed on your hands.
In a perfect world i would like a game that takes the good stuff from these games and put em in one.
Graphic wise i think both of them hold up really good, GTS feels more authentic, while Forza more gamey, more plastic, but still with good graphics and it's sense of speed is a bit better than GTS though the feeling of the speed is better on GTS. It's hard to explain it. In Forza you can see that the cars go fast but you can really feel it, on GTS it seems they go a bit slow but you feel the speed on your hands.
In a perfect world i would like a game that takes the good stuff from these games and put em in one.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Can't you see the compressed image with low AF and shadow quality that he post? Do i really need to point that out. Plus its in photomode, you guys still think that GTS looks the same as photomode. AF, IQ, shadows, car models and lod gets improved in photomode in GTS. How many times do i have to show this? You call me troll and call my shots doctored, and you expect to have a proper discussion. First show me prove that my shots are doctored. He thinks that posting PNG screenshots from youtube or other video site are better representation than high quality jpgs that i posted as a reply to his troll post. And you defend that guy, he is the biggest troll on this site. I posted dozens of gameplay shots from both games where you called me out, why didn't you post "real gameplay" shots then at the same place with the same car if my shots where doctored?
Anyway, im back from my vacation and seeing lots of FH4 footage. Gaddamn the game looks good. They finaly use SSR for the road and water reflections and the trees are improved with soft lighting aplied to the leafs. And the lighting looks gorgeous with the new sky and setting. This game is almost perfect but, only missing thing is self reflection like Drivelcub and Crew 2.
Apex
Member
Too late but never ever trust anything posted insistently here, especially if is not obvious or shared by many out of the hardcore fan-base. You better look for some well done videos and trust your eyes.
This thread started as a joke to filter all the trolling from the official threads. I think that since the migration it has become worse as most fair-players have gone and some banned users have registered again.
thelastword
Banned
Well, the thing is, GT has been shown to be best looking simracer a very long time ago. All aspects of the two games in contention have already been discussed, proper evidence given to show the differences and GT came out on top, very early in this thread btw. Even Digital Foundry corroborates. Back then, when this thread started, there were less disingenuous posters, persons took proper screens of both games and showed which was better. Car models, foliage, ATD etc....Recently a poster came in and he tried to post lots of JPG shots for GT and PNG shots for Forza, even photomode shots for Forza (most times with one car on screen, where the MB is so strong it obscures all environmental detail), and yet he knows that Forza's Motion Blur or IQ is not close to what's seen in photomode.....
It's the very reason I said, let's post high quality vids of both games, because it's the only way you can see how everything comes together in motion on your screen, actual gameplay with lots of cars on screen or a race in motion, but to this day, all this poster does is post PC shots at max quality and fails to get a clue...Perhaps as one poster said, maybe there were persons who were banned and made new accounts after GAF went down. I remember before the mods came back on here, some Xbox centric posters came in and said this was Sonygaf before and X fans didn't have a voice, they said many things about a former mod called Bish and said he cut lots of X fans off, so I imagine many of them registered on resurrected GAF and are back to right whatever wrong they felt was dealt. Still, it's always a good thing to post in good faith.....This thread was originally started because every Forza or GT thread was filled with comparisons, so they allowed the high octane debate to go on here, must say, some good comparisons were done on here, very early on....
Bonus Vid
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LuvOfThaGame
Banned
1. But according to your own words, DF makes too many mistakes and can't be trusted....
2. This includes you.
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thelastword
Banned
That's why I said, "Even Digital Foundry corroborates". I have no problems with an analysis if it get stats right, (framerate, resolution, details)... However, GT looking better than Forza was proven in this thread and others way before DF did their analysis. There were many GT threads which Dark10x visited before he did his video....He even asked about time of day comparisons that were done on one of them...
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
In other words, you have no problem as long as DF makes points that supports your agenda. The rest of the time they are biased and paid off, right?...because I've seen you insinuate as such...
LostDonkey
Member
The thing is linneman and his digital foundry have been known to fudge comparisons before in favour of PlayStation. He's been called out on this forum a few years back with undeniable evidence if you care to search back for it. It's never discussed though and swept under the rug. I mean this is a man who clearly stated he would be happier if MS never entered the video games market and in fact gamers would be better off for it yet he is judge and jury when it comes to fair unbiased comparisons.
Total joke.
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