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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
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icecold1983
Member
the AA in DC is at its worst in still screens FYI
FlutterPuffs
Member
It looks a whole lot better than during the launch tho. Less aliasing.
The PS+ version will get you the less interesting locale (India), some cars and the weather + photomode patch.
Compared to the photo mode shots totally yeah. It stood out very starkly to me.
Any idea what kind of AA they're using?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Anything with a high bit rate and no scaling.
Check Gamersyde as they probably have high quality videos available.
edit: here, found the main shot I remembered
You won't see that in motion, though.
I'd say the photo mode shots better depict how that game looks than the other shots.
icecold1983
Member
evo never specified but theres temporal aspects to it
So you haven't actually seen the gamersyde vids? Which other vids did you watch where the aliasing was really bad though? I've seen the gamersyde vids and they look pretty great to me, I don't see copious amounts of aliasing.
edit: here, found the main shot I remembered
That pic doesn't represent the AA solution for the whole game though. Objects rendering really thin lines in DC like the grass, bridge lines in the distance, or lighting highlights on car body panels will show aliasing. Besides the aliasing on the cars, it's otherwise unnoticeable when you play. The game is extremely clean for me.
Even Digital Foundry commented on this:
We've heard rumblings of improved in-game anti-aliasing for a while now as well but based on comparison shots we've generated compared to the launch version, it's difficult to conclude if there has really been any improvement. What's important to note is that DriveClub's AA is at its best in motion - stopping your car actually accentuates the game's aliasing issues.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph
I can't say for sure, but I suspect it's similar to what was seen on Killzone Shadow Fall, a mixture of FXAA and a new AA tech developed by the Sony Tech guys called TMAA, which it is akin to temporal supersampling anti aliasing, it provides excellent AA in motion but in static scenes coverage gets negatively afffected, something Ubisoft guys tried to fix with their HRAA solution.
jellies_two
Member
What track is that? I drove all the Mexico tracks and couldn't find one with over-track red banners over them but maybe I missed it.
Either way, that image seems cherry picked for poor quality - but if I can locate that track position I'll post one. In most of the game time both stationary and driving, you don't see frames like that.
So you haven't actually seen the gamersyde vids? Which other vids did you watch where the aliasing was really bad though? I've seen the gamersyde vids and they look pretty great to me, I don't see copious amounts of aliasing.
That pic doesn't represent the AA solution for the whole game though. Objects rendering really thin lines in DC like the grass, bridge lines in the distance, or lighting highlights on car body panels will show aliasing. Besides the aliasing on the cars, it's otherwise unnoticeable when you play. The game is extremely clean for me.
Even Digital Foundry commented on this:
We've heard rumblings of improved in-game anti-aliasing for a while now as well but based on comparison shots we've generated compared to the launch version, it's difficult to conclude if there has really been any improvement. What's important to note is that DriveClub's AA is at its best in motion - stopping your car actually accentuates the game's aliasing issues.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph
Yeah, I specified the screenshot that I had in mind, the one you linked to. I had assumed I saw it in a Gamersyde video because all the high quality stills are usually photomode, I was wrong about that. It was a gaffers screen capture.
And if
is true, that it does use some temporal AA then that definitely explains the lesser aliasing in motion.
Edit:
Based on the screenshots that posters are saying are in-game, non photomode, in motion, it definitely seems like a softer image, but one with a lot less aliasing. Seems like a good solution.
Another gaffer posted it in a different driveclub thread so I don't know the track. Sorry bud!
jellies_two
Member
It seems the track is different at that point now.
And despite the shot showing nothing much of the lighting abilities of the DC, it looks better too.
same time of day. Same clouds.
Better colours, less harsh contrast. Less car jaggies.
This is a jpg though, can't say whether a PNG would be worse or better.
And despite the shot showing nothing much of the lighting abilities of the DC, it looks better too.
same time of day. Same clouds.
Better colours, less harsh contrast. Less car jaggies.
This is a jpg though, can't say whether a PNG would be worse or better.
Not really. TAA relies on coherency across frames, which typically causes problems in motion.
Most implementations only jitter between 2 offset sample grids, which gives them at most 2xAA when nothing is moving (in theory, this could be resolved by using a greater number of sample location offsets). In implementations that use accumulation, motion can "boost" the sampling beyond those points if the game is very liberal with coherency... but this is pretty sketchy and tends to result in strange blurring, in addition to a weird slow "unblurring" effect when the camera stops moving. This is part of why I liked ISS's IQ more than KZSF's, despite KZSF usually having less noticeable aliasing; ISS is more conservative and only uses the last frame, so even if it's not quite as smooth, it looks cleaner. But areas of the image with significant motion in ISS essentially have their TAA turned off.
It could be that DC uses an accumulation buffer for AA, although my first guess would be that it's simply taking advantage of motion blur. I'll take a look later.
edit:
DriveClub has raised paint
Stereoscopic proof:
Every racing game's photomode ever is bullshot mode.
DC is amongst the least offenders because it doesn't swap car models etc with insanely higher res versions. It just does several AA passes and that's it.
It seems the track is different at that point now.
And despite the shot showing nothing much of the lighting abilities of the DC, it looks better too.
same time of day. Same clouds.
Better colours, less harsh contrast. Less car jaggies.
This is a jpg though, can't say whether a PNG would be worse or better.
It definitely seems different from the PNG shot from earlier yeah.
Not really. TAA relies on coherency across frames, which typically causes problems in motion.
Most implementations only jitter between 2 offset sample grids, which gives them at most 2xAA when nothing is moving (in theory, this could be resolved by using a greater number of sample location offsets). In implementations that use accumulation, motion can "boost" the sampling beyond those points if the game is very liberal with coherency... but this is pretty sketchy and tends to result in strange blurring, in addition to a weird slow "unblurring" effect when the camera stops moving. This is part of why I liked ISS's IQ more than KZSF's, despite KZSF usually having less noticeable aliasing; ISS is more conservative and only uses the last frame, so even if it's not quite as smooth, it looks cleaner. But areas of the image with significant motion in ISS essentially have their TAA turned off.
It could be that DC uses an accumulation buffer for AA, although my first guess would be that it's simply taking advantage of motion blur. I'll take a look later.
edit:
DriveClub has raised paint
Stereoscopic proof:
This is a cool post, thanks for the info - and that stereoscopic image is weird! That's such a silly bug!
Windom Earle
Member
DC is mindblowing.
jellies_two
Member
But, road paint is raised in real life.
In driveclub, the edge reflects light.
In driveclub, the edge reflects light.
Raised, yes. Hovering above the roadway, not so much.
I have to stand by my opinion that something was tweaked in the AA, at least in motion. I noticed a few things before I even realised a new patch was released on the day.
1. My favourite cars rotating in the car selection screen were less jaggy.
2. The top of steering wheels in cockpit view of my favourite cars used to annoy me with the aliasing there. Now it's mostly gone.
3. Distant cars during races show less shimmer.
But I suppose if I'm tripping balls and I psychogically think it's better then I suppose that's as good as an actual change right?
1. My favourite cars rotating in the car selection screen were less jaggy.
2. The top of steering wheels in cockpit view of my favourite cars used to annoy me with the aliasing there. Now it's mostly gone.
3. Distant cars during races show less shimmer.
But I suppose if I'm tripping balls and I psychogically think it's better then I suppose that's as good as an actual change right?
Lol. Hope it wasn't as bad as the last page. My chrome loads this page fine for some reason.
It is amazing how they have done the raindrops on the windscreen in DC.
Reality:
notice each drop reflects an inverted fish-eye view of the scene..
the drops on the DC windshield make a reasonable fist of doing the same thing.
Holy fucking shitballs.............. O_O
oh wait that's not in game??? damn you!
ChronotriggerJM
Member
While I'm a huge DC supporter and think it takes the crown, especially considering the hardware, Forza Horizon looks pretty damn awesome. Any ridiculous gifs from that game out there?
I'm not sure which games have been configured to do so for dynamic objects (the environment certainly reflects itself in many games), but it should be simple in any engine that supports reasonably general-purpose screen-space reflections.
Such games probably show restraint largely because such reflections would look terrible for inter-reflections on high-frequency dynamic surfaces under close inspection. Especially if glossy. Too unstable.
Driving games generally do much better with screen-space reflections than other genres, you just plain get screen-space hits more consistently. But even in DC, you can see plenty of janky shenanigans when you're in a free camera in photomode. Which goes to show why I'm not a big fan of screen-space reflections in FPS games.
Phreakuency
Banned
Funnily enough your post just makes Driveclub that more impressive.
Simply because 90% of the pics posted are in-game. And the photo mode shots are barely any different, a little better AA and very minor shadow improvements.
Summer Haze
Banned
I thought photo-mode made the shadows look worse? I remember seeing a comparison, and the photo-mode shadows looked a lot softer and blurry.
I may be wrong, though...
Also, @Benzy, nice job with that comparison. Those DC GIFs are unreal. The rain droplets on the windshield in the Project Cars GIF just don't cut it after seeing DC's.
I think the crazy physics of the water on the windshield in DC is mesmerizing, but it isn't all that accurate. It looks like clear jelly, it moves too fast, and obscures too much. It shouldn't really be moving up so quickly from the bottom of the windshield as that is a somewhat stagnant high air pressure area.
Again, it looks impressive. It just doesn't look right.
Real rain at the bottom of a windshield:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg_rafW8_U#t=210
Driveclub:
http://a.pomf.se/mwiuqy.gif
Again, it looks impressive. It just doesn't look right.
Real rain at the bottom of a windshield:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg_rafW8_U#t=210
Driveclub:
http://a.pomf.se/mwiuqy.gif
travisbickle
Member
That "heavy" rain video is a bit wimpish. Here's one with more of a jelly effect like Driveclub
http://youtu.be/WNTTf6dIygA?t=2m45s
Except it looks like it is barely raining in the Driveclub GIF:
http://a.pomf.se/mwiuqy.gif
And they still don't look all that similar. The drops of rain just become a puddle when they come together in your video. In Driveclub, they stay separate and goopy.
Again, I appreciate what they did, but it just doesn't look right. It's like the uncanny valley of water simulation. I can't stop staring at it because it's just wrong.
Yea, I'm not expecting this kind of thing to be perfect at this time. The implementation still shits all over what we were seeing last gen with GT5.
Summer Haze
Banned
I came across this image in console screenshots thread
Does any other game have objects that can reflect themselves? I don't think there is any.
What am I looking at here? Can someone point it out for me, I'm having a derp moment.
Car's bodywork is reflecting itself.
The car's bodywork reflecting itself (look at the triangle shaped thingy's reflection).
Shhh! You cant say that. What about all the PC guys on the first page saying nothing comes close to pCars? How will they feel?
Lol. That might be heavy rain for a desert..
Parhelion69
Member
I never thought I'd say this, but DC utterly destroys all other racing games visually, even Project Cars (I'll still get it though, for PC since my gtx 970 is ready)
Seriously, I think we have the game that is closest to photo-realism yet. Ofc it'll be topped soon, it's the way of life, but for now, nothing touches DC.
Seriously, I think we have the game that is closest to photo-realism yet. Ofc it'll be topped soon, it's the way of life, but for now, nothing touches DC.
Summer Haze
Banned
I couldn't find any bumpercam gifs of FH2.
Great stuff there.
I will point out that that first Forza gif is right before a storm (sprinkling) and the second one is after a storm has passed (also sprinkling).
How do I know? I made them, lol.
Great stuff there.
I will point out that that first Forza gif is right before a storm (sprinkling) and the second one is after a storm has passed (also sprinkling).
How do I know? I made them, lol.
Yeah, I looked in the previous pages and used your gifs since they're great quality, should have credited you in that post, my bad. Had a hard ass time finding good gifs anywhere else.
That DC gif is of an extreme situation though, you only get that kind of massive water movement up from the bottom in a hyper car (gif is of the Koenigsegg) and the car needs to be going at a pretty high speed or on hard turns for the water physics to react that much. It was just to show the water spreading effect.
While the water physics aren't completely realistic 1:1, it works really well for the game imo, and I think they did a pretty fantastic job in replicating the look of the water as well as the effects.
Here's an example in a non-hyper car compared to real life.
Yeah, photomode sometimes softens the shadows a bit too much, other times you can't really tell any change was made.
before: http://a.pomf.se/xarsoa.jpg
after: http://a.pomf.se/aymovs.jpg
icecold1983
Member
its amazing the length some people will go to downplay a superior product. nitpicking about the water simulation on the windows? when regardless of not being 100% perfect compared to real life its still so far ahead of anything any other game is doing.
DidntKnowJack
Member
The water droplets on a windshield is also going to vary greatly depending on the wind factor coupled with the speed your car is traveling.
Yeah. It is undeniable. Credit must be given where it is due. Driveclub has the best looking weather effects in any game ever made. Project Cars and FH2 are nowhere close.
TrojanBlade
Member
Ok I think we have a winner until maybe GT 7 comes out. F5, FH2 or even PCars is nowhere close to how good this game looks after weather patch. If DC was on a similar PC, PCars would not have much of chance against DC.
Salute to Evo for what they have accomplished on $400 box.
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