TheAdmiester
Member
There are plenty of reasons/excuses as to why pCARS looks a tad worse, though.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
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There are plenty of reasons/excuses as to why pCARS looks a tad worse, though.
Not considering the hardware is a generation apart, and a longer than normal generation at that.
TheAdmiester
Member
I'd imagine that the support for 55 cars on track, higher resolution textures, dynamic headlight shadows, day cycle + weather on every track, and multiplatform (+multi-gen) nature ate up that hardware difference pretty quickly. pCARS does a shitload more at once than GT, which is why I don't mind it not being a huge improvement over GT's graphics.
Pharaoh 117
Member
On consoles or PC only?
Supersampling + motion blur is what makes it look great, but the assets are pretty much the same.
Gameplay:
Photomode:
(those are from GT5 btw)
Gameplay:
Photomode:
(those are from GT5 btw)
That BMW looks WAY nicer in photo-mode, lol
Was going to say that lol. Best looking BMW I've ever seen
TheAdmiester
Member
Both as far as I'm aware, but I think I've heard that the console version is "only" 45 cars per race.
I'm fairly certain the cars use higher quality assets in photomode, at least in GT6. There's no way the game would perform decently if they were all super detailed tessellated versions in gameplay.
Track assets typically don't change much in Photomodes though. Cars tend to have multiple models that get swapped in and out so they are much more likely to be changed in photomode.
This goes for almost every console game including current-gen. Even in those direct feed 1080p shots GT6 somehow still ends up looking better than PS4 pCars in many areas.
gt6
ps4 pcars
Those are photomode pCars as well. Maybe nibs can get some replay captures of Willow Springs?
TheAdmiester
Member
Never realised the Huayra's interior could vary.
Forza's seems to be based on this version:
They absolutely nailed the material around the Pagani logo on the steering wheel, that weird grany plastic kind. Amazing to think it has all of those fantastic material properties and is still permanent 60fps.
Tracks don't seem to have PBR properties honestly, other than curbs and the road nothing seems to react to light. It's really static. AI cars are very simple too.
dr guildo
Member
This goes for almost every console game including current-gen. Even in those direct feed 1080p shots GT6 somehow still ends up looking better than PS4 pCars in many areas.
gt6
ps4 pcars
Those are photomode pCars as well. Maybe nibs can get some replay captures of Willow Springs?
512>8
Do the mirrors and reflections in PCars update at 60fps on the consoles?
I just remembered that this is another thing that GT5/6 do. I know that in Forza 5 they don't, but would be nice to know about PCars too.
I pretty sure that in GT they use the same models in photomode too. (but not in phototravel)
SolidSnakex
Member
TheAdmiester
Member
I was talking about the cars mainly. Although the tracks aren't doing anything special, they're also not doing anything worse, they're basically the same as any other game.
What I was saying WAS special was the proper paint effects on the cars, like the orange peel effect that makes the reflections look bumpy on this P1's paint:
I haven't seen any proper material effects like that in any other game. I think Driveclub MIGHT have something similar, but that also brings me back to the point from my last post - Forza is doing it at 60fps, and that's a big technical feat to me.
I don't know if it's technically PBR, but I have to ask if you've played enough of FM5 to have a sense of that. You obviously see the different light behaviors on things like painted concrete, worn metals, and construction tarps as you drive by. Especially on tracks like Prague, Long Beach and Silverstone, and it comes off as more than a fancy normal-map. Having rain interact with those behaviors in FH2 makes it super obvious they're using material systems for the lighting in the environment.
TheAdmiester
Member
Here's GT's version
That's not the ingame model for GT, or there was some sort of weird change before release at least. Compare the properly textured and clearly labelled dials on the version in your picture to this one from above.
For some reason the dials in this one look like a normal/bump map with no textures. The one you posted is nice, but that's a photomode/full detail version, which isn't a fair comparison to the Forza and pCARS shots.
Pharaoh 117
Member
That's super impressive. I expect GT7 to have 20 to 30 cars races.
Kaz said they want to match the number of cars that real events have like 200-300 cars on nurburgring.
TheAdmiester
Member
No way that'll happen this gen. The closest thing I could imagine would be racing against X amount of cars while the rest are just simulated times.
They absolutely are doing something worse. Forza lighting is all prebaked, shadows are incorrect. The only thing that is dynamic is the cars shadow and because the track does not react to light at all you get weird things like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yv2zMBX2Pw
SolidSnakex
Member
Yeah, it's definitely from the photo travel. Those are the models that Kaz has said are more appropriate for the PS4 than the PS3. Which is why the ingame/replays uses a lower quality model in GT5/6.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
That was a known glitch for a specific turn that was patched at (before?) release.
Just snapped this one for you mate.
Oh shit, lol. I stand corrected, though your pic does show the environment shadow was adjusted since that video. How far off the track would you say you are? I don't see it doing laps normally, even with a sloppy line.
Yeah, but it wasn't a glitch. It's because there is no track self shadowing. The track doesn't actually cast a shadow. They added another static shadowmap. Forza's shadows are also from above meaning they cast incorrect shadows that do not match the environment.
I've seen others try to describe this, and even with some reference images, what they were saying didn't seem to make sense. Can you help me out on that?
Around the same spot the majority of people not familiar with corkscrew end up at.
Haha, fair.
Chris Metal
Member
IMO DC is still the king. Especially because of its lighting.
Ahh thanks for posting my screen (photo mode)
. Love DC. The games listed here can look comparable in certain shots, but DC and GT6 are my favourite right now. Forza and Horizon can look very clean though. I find it amazing how comparable GT6 can look tbh.TheAdmiester
Member
You have the MSAA overlords to thank for this part.
I've never seen a console game look even remotely as sharp as Horizon 2 and its 4xMSAA. Such a clean image, no FXAA to be seen it seems.
Well, that's one advantage of forward rendering. On the downside you can't have many light sources casting shadows. FH2 only has shadows from the sun.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
DirgeExtinction
Member
It must've been the TV I was playing on, but there were some jaggies when I played the demo at best buy. It reminded me of DC's IQ.
Isn't that an Forzavista(or whatever it's called) shot? Where they bump up the model detail? That's not gameplay during a race, right?I was talking about the cars mainly. Although the tracks aren't doing anything special, they're also not doing anything worse, they're basically the same as any other game.
What I was saying WAS special was the proper paint effects on the cars, like the orange peel effect that makes the reflections look bumpy on this P1's paint:
I haven't seen any proper material effects like that in any other game. I think Driveclub MIGHT have something similar, but that also brings me back to the point from my last post - Forza is doing it at 60fps, and that's a big technical feat to me.
The paint effect is still there in gameplay.
TheAdmiester
Member
Horizon 2: There are jaggies but I meant the sharpness and clarity of the image. MSAA isn't perfect for jaggies, but it's probably the best AA option in terms of preserving clarity. The same game with FXAA would be a lot blurrier or hazier looking.
Forza 5: It is a Forzavista shot, but as ShamePain says it's always still present. It's just far easier to show in Forzavista or photomode because you can get the camera closer.
Maybe this is why GT has the '11 Huayra and the '13 Huayra. I always thought the 3D models were identical.
Wax you gotta specify to the doubters, custom firmware direct-feed captures at 720p?
It's not just in Forzavista. They're also there for photomode during gameplay and replays in Forza 5 and Horizon 2.
You can take a shot that detailed during a race.
I'd guess that's GT based on the low poly interiors and last gen textures?
I'm not sure what you're speaking relative to. Deferred approaches can handle small lights very efficiently, but don't particularly improve the shadow rendering situation.
TheAdmiester
Member
I have to admit I don't think this is true. Horizon 2's cars just seem more flat to me, with the exception of the weird wood/diamond/metals you can paint them in. Normal paint looks a bit cartoony, I wonder if it's less pronounced in order to make the game work better open world? Performance issues or something?
I've read that having shadows like that tanks the performance with forward rendering, which is why nobody is doing it. Games with deferred rendering like GT/GTA 5 have that.
You may be right on H2. They still are of higher quality in PM, might not be FV like in F5.
Nope, I've checked it myself, it does have the same paint flakes effect, you just have to zoom in enough.
?
It's GT6. Wax has custom firmware on his PS3 that allows him to take in-game direct feed shots. Those GT6 shots are really clean though, but it's also not photomode hence no GT watermark...
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